Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 3 - NOW IT'S REIN TIME (Game over)

[Percivalé]

Also I don't like the Shinori wagon for what it's worth.

[Percivalé]

Slight FoS for this. I never claimed that all of my posts were useful. I claimed that none of Elie's were. Aside from Manix's numbers claim (btw I have no experience with things of that sort), up until your post here, I had the most pertinent game posts of anyone (unless you think RP spam and hiddenbrospec are going to net us scum).

what the fucking shit, wait a second here

BBM's vote on Elie was because it felt like he was trying to force us out of RVS to get towncred, but here you're trying to take credit for having the most game-related posts and when I went back to read I think your vote on Elie had a hand in getting us out of RVS in the first place.

And that's just what it is, RVS. The only thing weird that I said I noticed about Elie was that he skirted about BBM's accusation that he was trying to get towncred but looking back it really wasn't that bad enough of a read to vote him in the first place. I don't like hypocrisy, there's not much more I can really say about that.

RVS is a useless concept that needs to die imo, but I prefer to lead by example by catching scum while most people are thinking of funny but innocuous reasons to vote.

I hope this is RP but uhhh try not to act like that.

(how is this NOT an attempt to try and get towncred either?? "oh I'M going to vote for REAL reasons and everyone will follow my example" nonononono no no no. I hope to god this is just roleplaying.

Don't like this. Pushing the hypocrisy angle is meh and reads like chainsaw defense of Elie but you also ask Elie why he's voting Psych and then criticize his response to BBM. Finally you vote me but say it might change. Feels like you're sitting the fence while setting up for a bus if Elie starts catching more heat.

I think hypocrisy is a better reason to vote someone than what Elie was doing. Also I said it might change because it's ED1, not everyone has spoken in the thread yet and I might have soon found a better reason to vote someone. It's simple as that. This is gross :selfmeta: but I'm really erratic D1 and I don't like it when people push me for that, if anything it feels opportunistic to ME but that's just a sidenote and it doesn't mean as much in my vote for you.

This feels somewhat opportunistic. Why didn't you vote SB in the post you made 5 minutes prior to this one? Did you have to wait for someone else to start the wagon?

Shinori ninja'd me but it was 6am and I didn't see the 'new reply' notice and I didn't bother to change a vote I had already made

Anyway, I'm going to read/respond to more but I have to go to a food thing really soon so if I disappear I'll be back in a few hours

[BBM]

Bizz- 2/3 votes on you are RVS afaik so it's not really a wagon there.

What has improved about Elie's content? His suspicion of Wombat is completely unfounded because even if you think that Wombat is scummy, you can't say that he didn't explain why he had a scumread on you, even if you think those reasons are bad. And his suspicion and therefore vote of Shinori misreps what Shinori says about SB being "lazy".

[Percivalé]

hey wombat i know you're used to DM being all aggressive and shit and you can go ahead and be aggressive but when you respond to me try not to take up an air of superiority, I mean this goes for everyone but haha spoiler tag. i don't mean when referring to everyone else but if you're responding directly to me try not to do that. if you do i might start to get personal and i don't want that. you don't have to do anything else, just change your tone a little, i didn't want to bring this up privately because it's technically about the game

[Percivalé]

Bizz- 2/3 votes on you are RVS afaik so it's not really a wagon there.

What has improved about Elie's content? His suspicion of Wombat is completely unfounded because even if you think that Wombat is scummy, you can't say that he didn't explain why he had a scumread on you, even if you think those reasons are bad. And his suspicion and therefore vote of Shinori misreps what Shinori says about SB being "lazy".

fsr I thought I saw 3 people vote me for the same thing when I skimread but now I'm just seeing Kevin's vote and Wombat accusing me of being opportunistic so I think I should read the next time I spout shit. sorry.

also idk it's a gutread. I wouldn't say his suspicion of wombat is 'completely unfounded'

[BBM]

Lolpsych I've been lynched as scum every single time I've been scum. Every single time. I wouldn't call that being good at being scum. Including cmv.

Wait so wombat? Shinori is scummy for attacking SB AND I'm scummy for "defending" Leviata? Seems like you're finding everything scummy as soon as a finger gets pointed. I respectfully disagree with your logic as it's literally, all over the place.

What was the point of the bolded? I can't find Psych saying anywhere that you're good at scum. All he said was that he doesn't respond much to pressure.

Also in this post, you "respectfully disagree" with his logic, implying you think he's wrong more than you think he's scummy, yet in your next post, you talk about him lining up lynches, which is more indicative of a scumread on him. Do you think Wombat is scummy?

[BBM]

fsr I thought I saw 3 people vote me for the same thing when I skimread but now I'm just seeing Kevin's vote and Wombat accusing me of being opportunistic so I think I should read the next time I spout shit. sorry.

also idk it's a gutread. I wouldn't say his suspicion of wombat is 'completely unfounded'

I'm not saying there's no case to be made at all on Wombat- I'm saying that his initial case is wrong because he handwaves what Wombat said about you with "He only said that he disliked Bizz, not that he found him scummy, and doesn't give reasons for why Bizz is scummy".

As for the stuff about lining up lynches, not really. You can't line up mislynches with X is buddying Y because if one of them flips town, the other doesn't really look scummy. They only get lined up if one of them flips scum, in which case there's not much scum intent there.

I kind of get what you're saying more about him using associative reads without a flip and hypocrisy. I'll keep it in mind but I don't find it as bad as Elie right now.

[Elieson]

This is straight up regular ol' defense of Levity btw. No Chainsaw required. It's also really clumsy as several people have pointed out. Not sure what it says about Levity given that it's so clumsy but it strengthens my read on Elie. [b[i seem to remember Elie being good at scum in CM V but he's totally scumming it up right now.[/b]

Ahhhh bbm you're right I was responding to this and thought Psych posted it not Wombat.

[Snike]

And Excellen, Shin, and Snike should POST.

i already posted by voting ether earlier given the votals just above your post

if you mean content i can't provide much because my systems are running on 3hrs of downtime

what I can say, though, is that kirsche's vote looks bad bc he's just gunning for the second voter on a player

don't we need some 'sheeping' to make a lynch ???

##Unvote

##Vote: Kirsche

[Elieson]

Ninja'd by your other post.

I disagree with Wombat's case on Leviata (does not imply anything about his Alignment)

I think he's scummy due "to lining up lynches", and being so hung up on me defending Leviata that it's to a point of close-mindedness and that's not effective scumHUNTING from where I stand; it's more lynchpushing, which IMO is kinda like misrepping.

So if anything, a leaning scumread on Wombat is where I stand. He is in no way my Primary scumread tho.

[Zkirsche]

It's such a gay reason to vote for someone anyway, that the sheeping just seems more opportunistic/lazy than wanting to consolidate. Shinori's vote is pretty bad too, but I'm getting a worse feeling from Bizz overall out of the two.

I think he's scummy due "to lining up lynches", and being so hung up on me defending Leviata that it's to a point of close-mindedness and that's not effective scumHUNTING from where I stand; it's more lynchpushing, which IMO is kinda like misrepping.

I don't feel like you addressed his more recent point about you defending Bizz enough. Why is Shinori's case on SB bad whereas Bizz's case on SB acceptable? Instead of addressing that question you decide to dodge by saying that Wombat is just paranoid and that his logic is all over the place.

[charlie_]

Read back through in the hopes of finding something a little more solid.

So far Elie has made a huge proportion of the posts in this game and to be frank none of them are useful. There's a bunch of RP and then to be frank a pretty overdone reaction to Manix's revelation, followed by what I frankly think is a wild goose chase of hidden bro rolespec to be frank. To be frank I think he is faking activity to be frank.

I never get what faking activity even means. Like, seriously. What do scum have to gain from pretending to be active? Absolutely nothing. This is pretty graspy

##Vote: Camtech075

He isn't going to be very active anyways so why don't we help him on his way?

There was a lot of spam going on but I don't like how Snike just rolled in here, dropped a vote and didn't talk about anything. He even came back to amend his vote when he realized Cam wasn't on the playerlist. Not really fond of that, would like him to come back with content soonish. Last part goes for a fair few other people too though, Snike just stuck out to me.

it is 7am and i still haven't slept

@sb: until the hidden player actually flips that's just kinda filler. we also don't know if the mafia even know they have a hidden or not, we don't know anything about the way the hidden's role works or even if there is one because it's technically not confirmed. so until we have more info you might want to focus on something else.

I know. It was mostly an afterthought in the first place. I just kept having to bring it up because people didn't understand what I was saying.

I don't see the problem in calling a spade a spade here. ALSO I DON'T FIND EVERYTHING SCUMMY I'VE ACTUALLY GOT SEVERAL TOWN READS BUT I'M NOT POSTING THEM YET.

This thing seems really over the top reaction and I don't like it.

Slight FoS for this. I never claimed that all of my posts were useful. I claimed that none of Elie's were. Aside from Manix's numbers claim (btw I have no experience with things of that sort), up until your post here, I had the most pertinent game posts of anyone (unless you think RP spam and hiddenbrospec are going to net us scum).

You never claimed that, but all of your posts leading up to that point were completely useless imo.

Secondly, your suggestions have wasted time. How is wasting time in town's interest?

"Wasting time" less than 3 hours into the game is a point against Eli? This is grasping hard imo.

Don't like this. Pushing the hypocrisy angle is meh and reads like chainsaw defense of Elie but you also ask Elie why he's voting Psych and then criticize his response to BBM. Finally you vote me but say it might change. Feels like you're sitting the fence while setting up for a bus if Elie starts catching more heat.

"pushing the hypocrisy angle" apparently is scummy? If someone does something that they criticized another player for, then they're scummy. It's not really that complicated. Also every time someone attacks a player for a weak vote on another player does not make it chainsaw defense, especially if it's actually justified.

You also seem oddly certain that Eli is scum even though the game's barely started, which I find suspect.

##Unvote

##Vote: Wombat

[Grace]

levity/bizz/viata/captain gay is a girl just fyi

read signups thread, gg

anyway i'm skimreading the thread. brain is still fried rip

[Excellen Browning]

Sup, I've had other priorities up till now (past midnight)

I'm disappointed the assumption that a hidden was scum lasted for several pages. I'm also disappointed that a certain someone used false logic to try and make us believe elieson was less likely to be scum for trying to out the hidden(generally, good players are chosen as hiddens, so we should assume some competence on the hidden's part)

Furthermore I'm not inclined to support any of the lynch wagons that have been going on. At the moment, I have a suspicion the wombat voting is mostly due to his aggressive playstyle, which could easily be rp (and possibly an excellen role, yay!) but I digress. So far no particular targets of interest, but I will reread and try to figure out some more things.

Also, please don't respond to the part about the hidden player. Discussing that is completely pointless at this point in the game

[Excellen Browning]

By the way I'm really liking the fact there's been so little shitposting up till now

[Grace]

By the way I'm really liking the fact there's been so little shitposting up till now

i can remedy that lack if you so desire

still writing post btw

[Leornianwynn]

hey wombat i know you're used to DM being all aggressive and shit and you can go ahead and be aggressive but when you respond to me try not to take up an air of superiority, I mean this goes for everyone but haha spoiler tag. i don't mean when referring to everyone else but if you're responding directly to me try not to do that. if you do i might start to get personal and i don't want that. you don't have to do anything else, just change your tone a little, i didn't want to bring this up privately because it's technically about the game

I don't think I've been taking that tone with you but I'll try to watch it.

Also, the thing about RVS wasn't RP but it was a bit of a joke. I do believe that RVS is counterproductive, but I don't take a hard line against it at all. I've tried it before and no one agrees. So instead, I just play the game the way I think it should be played. Hence the bit about "leading by example." I was trying to crack fun at how I was trying to be town leader. Sorry if it just came off as me being a douche.

[Prims]

Votals

Shinori (4): Naglfar, Elieson, Psych, Helios

Levity (3): scorri, kirsche, Shin

Elieson (2): Wombat, BBM

Wombat (2): Levity, SB

Gyarados (1): Manix

kirsche (1): Snike

Psych (1): Rein

SB (1): Shinori

scorri (1): eclipse

Not Voting (3): Ether, Gyarados, j00

Edited July 25, 2013 by mafia sucks

[Grace]

yay my brain is working again, so have some stuff:

[spoiler=contenttttt]elie trying to push wagons in rvs isn't inherently townie or scummy; but announcing that that's his intention is also neither townie or scummy.

Be extra careful about this shit guys. I don't wanna be a wingman to someone who isn't cautious enough with their vote to avoid accidental hammertime.

just poking a bit: purpose of pointing this out in the first 20 posts of the game?

hidden hunting was kinda pointless and it could be any-alignment driven, so people on it don't get towncred/look scummy for it

So far Elie has made a huge proportion of the posts in this game and to be frank none of them are useful. There's a bunch of RP and then to be frank a pretty overdone reaction to Manix's revelation, followed by what I frankly think is a wild goose chase of hidden bro rolespec to be frank. To be frank I think he is faking activity to be frank.

i love sounding like a broken record, but "pot this is kettle"

Partially because Bizz, partially because I want to see if I can get him three slots on the next votals instead of the current two that he has.

interesting vote logic. so from this i presume you partly (only partly) agree with elie's wagon push logic?

People sometimes react if you just start wagoning without saying anything, but there's no reason they're going to react if you announce that your vote is for the sole reason of making wagons. It's like saying HEY HERE COMES A REACTION TEST.

reactions don't necessarily have to come from the wagoned, it can come from other players (wagoners and bystanders alike), so even an announced wagon will still force people to give opinions on it. i'm not quite seeing your point here.

I'm not sure how a pile of completely pointless votes is gonna evoke a reaction out of someone. iirc someone pushed Marth to L-2 in the great awakening and he barely reacted.

that's just cherrypicking one example. there's been plenty of other games (D1 fayz comes to mind *shudder*) which wagoned players have reacted.

@manix I think it's just mostly elie's vote that bugs me about the Psych wagon I guess more than the Psych wagon itself but my brain lumped it all together as a whole thing.

got it. clarification is always nice.

Kinda weird that that's the only thing you decided to pick at out of everything else though.

it was 10:30pm at night and i was really tired @_@

not to mention i could barely read anyone at that time

shinori why the hell are you voting over that of all things? he didn't get a joke or something. whatever. I don't understand how your logic applies to the situation; it looks like you're the one trying too hard to make something out of nothing.

so what do you think of via's post (which is right after that one) then? why is shinori's more pertinent to call out?

up until your post here, I had the most pertinent game posts of anyone

depends on perspective. one can argue that your elie vote was basically a glorified rvs vote and didn't actually achieve much toward the game, and subsequent posts about it are also not counted for similar reasons. sure, maybe in your opinion they were the "pertinent game posts", but yeah biased perspective is like that.

Pushing the hypocrisy angle is meh

isn't it scum that make themselves hypocritical more often because they are part of the informed minority?

Feels like you're sitting the fence while setting up for a bus if Elie starts catching more heat.

riddle me this. how can you have 100% associative reads forming when you have absolutely no flip information/night results? reasoning here is contrived as fuck.

bizz's post against my wagon does seem all over the place and i'd be tempted to assume there's a connection between her and elieson trying to just play off each other and seem like great townies

again, associative reads without a flip. how?

Voting SB for missing a joke is super dumb, Bizz is worse though for sheeping.

are you for real

holy god they posted almost at the same time i'm pretty sure; so how exactly is that "sheeping"?

dun like this vote at all.

Still, Levity looked really opportunistic, so that's worse.

brb smashing my head against a wall

i reiterate; they posted basically at the same time. exactly how is 1) via opportunistic and 2) you mention shinori, so why was his vote on sb better than via's? (even factoring the given opinion that they both look bad (which i don't actually agree with at all))

Chainsaw defense is when you attack someone who is attacking your scumbuddy.

...which makes absolutely no sense to use until there's a flip. it's also not completely impossible for town to chainsaw defense either, fwiw

the whole chainsaw defense argument feels graspy to me

As for the stuff about lining up lynches, not really. You can't line up mislynches with X is buddying Y because if one of them flips town, the other doesn't really look scummy. They only get lined up if one of them flips scum, in which case there's not much scum intent there.

yes but you only need to get one of them mislynched in that case. it's still a flawed (and scummy) methodology to use associative reads without a flip (and extension is Lining Up Lynches).

It's such a gay reason to vote for someone anyway, that the sheeping just seems more opportunistic/lazy than wanting to consolidate. Shinori's vote is pretty bad too, but I'm getting a worse feeling from Bizz overall out of the two.

1) opportunistic/lazy =/= sheeping. reads like backpedaling on his own initial given logic.

2)the number of times i have to say this... exactly why is shinori better than via? (even when both are considered bad fypov)

vote, vote... let's see.

i'm voting kirsche because his initial via vote is a pretty big misrep and he backpedals on his logic when he got called out on it, which i don't like. got a #fos on wombat for the graspy arguments involving associative reads without a flip. can't read elie to save my life right now.

##Unvote

##Vote: kirsche

[Grace]

oh god that spoiler is a big wall aaaa

it doesn't even involve a complicated role madness setup, lame

[j00]

Can we get ISOs in the OP please there's already a ton of listposts clutter and make it hard to read

Don't agree with Wombat's accusations that Elie was wasting time, having votes all over the place isn't useful either. Don't like his aggressive posting style with stuff like "My posts weren't wasting time" and such but he's being so bold I'm not reading either of them as scum at the moment.

Snike voting kirsche because he voted Bizz for sheeping is weird. Sheeping is a legit reason to vote someone because if you can't be arsed to come up with own reads you're likely not very convinced either. Whether or not Bizz actually was sheeping can be discussed, like Manix pointed out they basically posted at the same time, but you didn't bring that up against him.

##Vote: Snike

[Paperblade]

done

[Excellen Browning]

Dear elieson, why did you only ask scorri if she wanted spend the night with you? It is highly inconsistent and specific when I consider all your other posts. Also what was the logic behind your "hidden exposition" plan? There seems to be none.

Dear BBM, why do you try to attack elieson for trying to get out of RVS? Why would you, as a town, find this disagreeable? Now that I'm on topic of you, why did you make the assumption that 7 antitown = 7 maf?

SB gets negative points for the "elieson is likely to be town if the hidden ends up being maf" thing, and the people who voted him because he didn't get a joke get more negative points. I'm looking at you, shinori and levity. Also curious to find out who you thought was more worthy of having a vote, and why you ended up voting SB shortly after.

Still not liking the votes on wombat, but elieson is lynch-worthy in my opinion, mostly because of the way he is responding to wombat; with rhetoric. Kirsche is also being considered for a noose right now, my reasons for this are summed up well by above posters. I'd also be down for lynching SB with the vote threat and vote on wombat and all.

Right now I'm not inclined to lynch shinori or levity, I find SB threatening to vote shinori over not getting things enough to warrant a vote.

Finally I'd like the following inactive scum to become active: shin, ether, Helios, naglfar, rein, shin and scorri.

Its probable I missed something, which could completely invalidate my vote, so please notify me if I did.

##vote: elieson for now

[Excellen Browning]

I noticed my own inconsistency regarding shinori and levity voting for SB "for not getting a joke". Please ignore that bit from my previous post.

[riariadne]

I lost a post twice now, so fuck. I'll make this short.

My suggestions haven't wasted time, because one, people haven't decided to follow them, and two, look people are discussing stuff (including me) now. Not sure if it was that bad of an idea, I mean hell, I got a reaction out of you man.

Okay, I don't like this at all. Not all reactions are good reactions, you're treating this like it was an ultra good thing and it wasn't. "Not sure if it was that bad of an idea" reads as noncommittal to me too. And what's up with the first part? The implication in it really bothers me.

Want Excellen to elaborate quite a bit. Okay, so you don't like any of the current big wagons- why not? I want to see more about this from you. Your post didn't have many opinions in it.

Also not a fan of Snike's post. Yeah I get that losing posts suck but his logic for voting kirsche seems poor. I don't think kirsche is supertown but jumping on someone for that seems like it's just a convenient thing to do. Yeah I get that he didn't have tome for content but I still think it's suspect.