Yume Nikki Mafia - Day 3

[BBM]

Sorry guys I'm just really busy all the time right now. ;_;

It's pretty late so I don't want to spend too much time on a post right now; I'll post more in a few hours when I wake up.

My vote stays on Shin. His vote on Mitsuki is pretty terrible because even though Mitsuki elaborated on why she changed her vote, and even changed her vote away from Shin, he hasn't said anything wrt her other than re-echoing the original reason behind it. The whole point of voting for Mitsuki even though he found SB/Elie scummier was to pressure her and get some answers. She gave answers and he hasn't done anything to update his vote. It makes the whole thing look like a votepark. Actually it's similar to his Elie/SB suspicions- he keeps talking about them but he's really just saying the same stuff over and over.

The Randa blurb is kind of pointless and it's basically the only new thing since the Mitsuki vote other than a small question to Kay.

The fact that he has, as he points out, a lot of posts, makes all this even worse.

[Kay]

Hold on. I'm not on the Scarlet wagon, and I think the most recent thing I've said about him was that I'm not sure what's making him look bad. My vote's on Refa.

Oh, sorry, wasn't looking at votals somehow.

Lynch priorities are currently Poly > Shin > Randa > other people > Raymond.

also Boron's post just now made me think to go read Refa's ISO and I'm not a huge fan, posting right after being prodvoted after apparently not bothering to post is weird and idk the meta for all you relative newbies well enough to know if he normally jokes around that much post-RVS but I'm tempted to think refuge in audacity. It's not a significant scumread but it's not null either.

[Kay]

would lynch Shinori just because he deserves it for being a lazybutt

[Kay]

(no, that's not serious)

[eclipse]

Welcome to Clipsey Catch-Up! Here, we're going all the way back to the very beginnings of D1, and you guys can watch my thought process evolve~!

- In the year 2014, Elieson is still doing questionable things in RVS. Dislike this on a personal level.

- MAI HERO!

- Marth is already trying to be serious in post 31. Where have the good old days gone?

- Hi Shin

- And BBM is jumping to Elieson's defense! Interesting, but as I see Elieson as null at this point, don't much care for it.

- I don't get the point of this post

- Why is it hypocrisy? I don't see your logic.

- I'M PLAYING NOW, GET AT ME!

- Reference. I see nothing wrong with asking for clarification, nor do I see similar reasoning (though I'd like Raymond to answer me).

- Apparently, giving a town fake to the mafia is no longer a thing. This is why I view Elieson's early antics as null.

- Do not like. Reads like a game summary (yes, this is hypocritical of me, but I'm subbing INTO a slot, and have a ton of catch-up to do).

- Associative reads already?

- SB make up your mind.

- And here's a read I don't agree with. I'm still null-reading Elieson at this point, since he's doing a pretty good job of not mentioning many people outside of Shin at that point.

- As of post 94 (hooray arbitrary post number), I'm reading Shin as annoyed. Since I've never seen an annoyed Shin before, I have no idea what to make of it.

- YOU ARE NOT VOTING YOUR SCUMREADS!

- What. The Helix Fossil is a valid reason for voting people. The vote's explanation feels self-conscious, and I don't like it.

- Shinori in charge of reading the topic

- Don't agree with this logic. If half the game is acting like scum, then half the game is acting like scum. I don't care for the delay between Randa's reads and a vote, and how passive the vote sounded.

- First Eurykins post I don't like, but that's because I have no idea what she's trying to say.

- Here's my take on it: Poly mentions a bunch of stuff, and his vote is based on "a waste of time" (when said waste was in the middle of RVS) and a bunch of questions.

- Reference. Meta isn't a good reason to excuse anyone; fine. Yet you're not on Shin's case for his self-vote in RVS, which by your definition is scummy.

- I shall respectfully disagree. If you have a problem with Boron's take on SB's associative reads, what do you think about Mitsuki, who mentioned the same thing?

- WHAT. Vote on the tertiary scum read? I think this is the first thing from Shin that I find scummy. Like, you're free to post questions while voting someone higher on your list!

- . . .and the first post from Elieson I have non-personal issues with. "Considering unvoting" sounds extremely passive-aggressive and out-of-place in an otherwise aggressive post - you do or you don't. Second, where'd that Mitsuki read come from?

- Comment on one person, vote for someone else. WHY?

- What. Why Poly? I'll explain my own reads later.

NOW FOR READS BASED OFF OF THE BAJILLION LINKS (click 'em, folks, they're relevant to all of you!):

- Out of Shin/Elieson, I have reasons to dislike both of them. In Shin's case, it's his wonky Mitsuki vote. In Elieson's case, it's that "unvote" thing. What pisses me off the most is the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they're the same alignment (and gut says that it's town). This is mostly due to the sheer amount of emotion both sides put into it, and that's really uncharacteristic of Shin (Elie, not so much).

- I will not contest a Randa lynch; his vote on Scarlet seems really hesitant, and the most original thing out of him is a read on BBM.

- Mitsuki's an interesting case. . .on content alone, she's a slight townread, but if I factor in associative reads, I come out with a gigantic question mark. Either people forget to mention her or they mention her and don't say why she's a suspect.

- Kay needs to explain why Shin was worth a paragraph, but her Poly vote wasn't - is he really that bad despite the huge Elie/Shin thingy?

- I feel like Shinori's dodging the elephants in the room, and this strikes me as scummy.

- Like Shinori, I feel like Refa is dancing around the Shin/Elie issue. Unlike Shinori, he's doing it by responding to Boron/SB instead.

- I don't care for Marth's logic, but that's because I think his logic is bad, not scummy.

- Not really feeling a Scarlet lynch ATM - he's responding to questions, and he owes me some answers. I think that if he's scum, he'll PoE himself into oblivion.

- BBM/Poly/scorri need to exist. Especially scorri.

- I'm not interested in lynching the rest of you.

Given my thoughts on the huge tunnelfight, my scumlist reads as Shinori/Refa > Randa > Shin/Elie > everyone else. As I don't think I'll be able to get enough support for Shinori/Refa. . .

##Vote: Randa

[charlie_]

Would like Boron to tell me what I'm overstating, considering I did say what I thought it was in #160 but that seems to have gone ignored? If it's just I'm pushing too hard, that's not a good reason for me being scummy. If I think someone is scum I'm gonna do what I can in order to get them lynched, and pushing hard helps.

Skimmed Refa due to him getting cased and I agree that his content seems really on the ground, and his Marth vote comes in a post after he lays down his reasoning which is kind of strange. His Randa case is also kinda weak, based on him having a lot of scumreads (not a scumtell, and he acknowledges this), not having a clear lynch priority (null imo) and the rest of his case are sheeping things he doesn't even try to reference, so.

I see eclipse's post but don't have time to respond. Gotta go.

[Sunwoo]

Ugh, my head feels kind of funny right now. I'll get to anything I need to address tomorrow afternoon (or whenever I wake up and get on my laptop), but the people I want lynched most are Refa > SB = Elieson. Of the people who are actually likely to get lynched tomorrow, I refuse to lynch Scarlet because I still fail to see what's so bad about his posts. I'd prefer not lynch Shin, I'm not reading scum intent in his posts. Would not object to Randa lynch because he hasn't been doing anything or contributing anything new.

[Shinori]

Working on a post at the moment. I really need to remember to not go inactive for a day because fucking reading 3 pages of walls or more.

[Kay]

- Kay needs to explain why Shin was worth a paragraph, but her Poly vote wasn't - is he really that bad despite the huge Elie/Shin thingy?

Requesting clarification here: are you asking why I didn't explain my vote for Poly at the time of my vote instead of before and after the vote, or are my reasons for voting for him not clear enough?

[Sunwoo]

Would like Boron to tell me what I'm overstating, considering I did say what I thought it was in #160 but that seems to have gone ignored? If it's just I'm pushing too hard, that's not a good reason for me being scummy. If I think someone is scum I'm gonna do what I can in order to get them lynched, and pushing hard helps.

I responded to post #160 right here, I did NOT ignore it. If you think I didn't answer the question you addressed towards me that's one thing but I did NOT ignore your post. I'm actually kind of mad about this, I know you think I'm forgettable as fuck, but fuck. :|

[Shinori]

I don't see Elie's move itself as indicative of alignment. In the end I don't know Elie's intention behind what he did, but it certainly helped bring us out of RVS. So, while I would consider it bad play at any other point in the game, it ended up being useful at this point. I think pushing the town out of RVS can be considered pro-town.

As for the people jumping on Refa: somewhat. I don't know what to make of SB's reasoning and Mitsuki's sheeping, but Marth stating his willingness to vote Refa for... ...parking an easy vote on Elie is hypocrisy if I've ever seen any.

##Vote: Marth

Okay, so I really didn't like this post because following his empty unvote shortly before this it just seems random and weak and forced. I felt like his random unvote and his vote on Marth is something that scum would do because most scum would be allowed to get away with something such as this. However I guess you could say that's also partially my gut telling me that.

Still, I'm quoting this because the "willing to bet you rolled scum" feels scummy to me. As seen in Shinori's lynch priority in the bottom of this post he doesn't have me listed in spite of saying so. Why did he say it, then? If he really believed in what he said I'd expect him to at least try to analyze my posts and give some read on me (even if it's a nullread), which he hasn't done because he doesn't mention me again.

I kind of felt Mitsuki seemed a little touchy/defensive here but that's just my opinion. Someone asked about my Mitsuki read somewhere(Mind you I'm still reading) but at the moment I'm pretty null on Mitsuki, if I had to pick something that I'd probably be leaning town but that's also due to a random few other reads like her arguments with Eury/shin who I'm both scum reading. I may not fully agree with some of Mitsuki's actions but no one generally perfectly agrees.

OK, the number of votes kinda tripled overnight! Not groovy! All about the Shin express!

Mitsuki, you've gone from an SB vote to one on me, quite the change due to one short post from SB! "I thought two people were individually scummy so I guess they're scummy together" was apparently enough to make you do a 180. You seemed pretty sold on SB earlier, is that really enough to make a change? And how on Earth do you know SB's meta and not know mine? Not cool at all! Also, half your own points seem to be based on my choice of words, which considering your previous stance seems like a really weak way to completely drop the case on him and join the leading wagon.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mitsuki

This Mitsuki vote I feel is REALLY bad. Just cause you want some answers from someone doesn't mean you should vote X person over people who are your highest scum reads by a mile. Also I find it REALLY bad that it's now sub 24 hours and your vote is still on Mitsuki even though you'd prefer to lynch Elie or SB. Part of me actually wants to think other random bad things about it but that's just my paranoid self so I'm gonna ignore it for now.

Eli, it was me. You're just trying to labour a point. Your main point for voting me was the lack of activity and that one post I made on page 2. I've never seen such a vicious assault on someone for so little, I can't fathom what would lead to do that as town. I know my own alignment, and I can't see why someone would make such a case on that little.

This whole quirk about knowing your own alignment and your argument with Elie looks bad in my eyes. I really felt like you started the whole thing, not Elie and I'm just in general scum reading all of your posts for the most part at the moment.

Shin, Eli didn't start this, not really. He made a generic prodvote against an inactive, and you made it a huge topic instead of just not being inactive. You made a huge fuss over "why me instead of some other inactive", which was a bit too paranoid imo, made yourself look worse and worse, and gave Eli reason to argue his vote on you until it became this "crusade". His main point against you was based on that one post because you've been basically forcing him to repeat it.

Also, that Mitsuki case sucks. Yeah, she changed her opinion quickly. Is it scummy? Frankly, I'm not seeing likely scum intent here, and plenty of town intent. Yeah, if you're town, scum would want you lynched, but ideally they wouldn't be on your wagon, and wouldn't seem directly responsible for your lynch. Right now, that seems as if it would be easy enough to achieve.

But it's not just a bad case, it's your second bad case that seems to be 90% OMGUS. If you're just paranoid town instead of jumpy scum, try tunneling on Eli less plz.

Marth's recent posts are sounding more like tryhard townie than grasping scum.

##Unvote

##Stab: Polydeuces

I pretty much want to repeat what I said already by pointing out this; Kay basically said everything I want to say. The whole eli didn't start it and the mitsuki case sucks.

However why the fuck are you voting Poly Kay?

GOING BACK TO READING AGAIN CAUSE THIS WAS WHERE I STOPPED BEFORE I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.

[Shinori]

Also I change my mind on the whole mitsuki thing with a bit more reading. Definitely leaning town on them and stuff.

[Shinori]

Random notes from finishing my read of like pages 10/11

Kay why are you making such a big deal about Shin's posts if you aren't scum reading him? This is kind of important.

Boron in post #187 points out a lot of good arguments against Refa.

BBM seems very very unmemorable. It honestly seems like everything he's doing is just sheeping stuff everyone else is saying.

Also poly's first posts seemed really bad to me still and he has since then vanished and like not appeared which seems not Town!Poly meta wise.

Personally my lynch preference is something like:

Shin > Scarlet > Poly > Eury > Inactive lurkers who are unmemorable(Insert refa bbm scorri) > Anyone else.

Eury's bad imo cause I feel like her big posts actually have a fair amount of fluff in it, but that's also her posting style kind of so whatever. However she does seem pretty defensive in a few situations. In her spoilered post she reacted defensively towards SB calling her out on possibly being nitpick imo. Also part of this read is gut which is why it's lower than the other three.

Scarlet stuff: Early game stuff that I already mentioned I don't like. First big wall was primarily focused on Poly/Randa. Not many other reads were posted really at this point in time. After this I felt like the majority of his other posts were spent defending himself from Marth and Mitsuki. He doesn't really appear to be scumhunting all that much and he doesn't seem to have many reads. Like seriously look:

Current lynch priority:

Poly = Randa > everyone else > SB

I see no reason to claim at this point.

Current lynch priority as requested:

Poly = Randa > everyone else > Marth = SB

Reasoning is the same as before. Added Marth to the "would not lynch" side because I'm reading him as town for reasons I outlined earlier in the day.

Across a 24 hour period the reads haven't changed one bit and when he spends the majority of his time responding to either Marth or Mitsuki with walls and without scumhunting or mentioning other people all that much I really am okay with lynching him.

SO YEAH.

[Mitsuki]

I haven't reread nor reconsidered, but my priorities now would be Shin > Scarlet >>> lurkers > anyone else

I'm willing to give Scarlet a bit more of time since I think some of the points I brought up against him will become more telling with time, and his replies to my case didn't feel scummy while Shin's replies made me increase my suspicion. I still think Scarlet's scum though.

Shinori is null now that he's replied to my case on him. I didn't get it was a joke.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

By the way, I won't be here for the deadline.

[Shin]

The fact that he has, as he points out, a lot of posts, makes all this even worse.

Man, I should just go back to never posting, it was way easier!

Shinori, my vote stuck to Mitsuki partly because I forgot it was on her still, and mostly because I got tired and went to bed! British, timezones! I concede that the vote was probably unnecessary, but I genuinely didn't understand the turn around. Rereading this post and her one before it kinda make sense, but the later "I've said what I've said, but leave me alone" comes across as slightly defensive. I wasn't asking you because I thought there was no reason, I was asking because I wanted clarification. Kay does post a lot about me, but apparently the same reasons carried from her early read on him, since he hasn't really posted much I'm guessing its far to say those exact reasons haven't changed.

Eclipse does raise a fair few valid points about Eli. Looking back at his posts as a whole and without him at my throat, his foul mood seems somewhat genuine. I'm not calling him town by any means, but I've played with scum!Eli somewhat recently and it was way different. I have a feeling that scum is probably somewhere in the coasters.

SB still seems opportunistic, other than the initial defense of Eli, he's been relatively lazy. Things seem "ok" to him and he seems content with leaving things as they are. Refa and BBM are in a similar boat. Refa doesn't even try, it's a case of "Shin is bad, other people said why" and then gives a generic list of reasons. I'm really not used to not seeing a sceptile like every five posts. BBM kinda summarises what other people have said. I also feel he hasn't really read my posts. The only times I've repeated myself are when I've been asked the same question multiple times. Also, any opinions on anyone else? A funny theme with Shinori, Refa and BBM is this charming devotion to me whilst sitting relatively in the background.

Man, this post too long, I should really actually do stuff at work.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

In the same boat (which I bet has loads of SCUM in it, rite?) as BBM and Shinori, although I feel the effort really isn't there. The last big post was a list of responses I'm less sold on Eli and Mitsuki at this point. I've come to the realisation that there can't be like 7 scum, so I gotta PRIORITIZE.

I would claim but my role's virtually impossible to prove. Hint: It doesn't actually do anything! It's also a flavour of ice cream!

[Bluedoom]

Are you saying you are a vanilla?

Also yeah, Shin's at L-3

[Prims]

Day 1.6 - Votals

Shin (6) - Elieson, SB, Shinori, BBM, Refa, Mitsuki

Polydeuces (4) - scorri, Scarlet, Kay, Bluedoom

Randa (2) - Eurykins, eclipse

Refa (2) - Sangyul, Shin

Elieson (1) - Polydeuces

Scarlet (1) - Randa

Not Voting (0): None!

You have 18 hours and 12 minutes left in the day. With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Polydeuces and scorri have been prodded.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Prims

[Scarlet]

CLIPSEY!

- Why is it hypocrisy? I don't see your logic.

Because he himself was voting Elie for not much of a reason either, although in retrospect I probably wouldn't actually call it hypocrisy so much as just feeling a bit off. I guess this means I've never seen hypocrisy

- Reference. Meta isn't a good reason to excuse anyone; fine. Yet you're not on Shin's case for his self-vote in RVS, which by your definition is scummy.

No, I wouldn't call it scummy so much as simply being bad play (I think I called it anti-town). Voting oneself doesn't make sense as any alignment and only as very, very few roles.

That self-vote is in fact part of the reason why I'm reading him as bored noob-town more than scum despite the fact that I agree that his play so far has been less than stellar.

Also, add a scum read on Shinori from my side. Those latest few posts of his were really shitty after all the time he spent coming up with excuses not to post.

Same problem as with Randa - he just quotes a couple of things that other players have previously commented on as being scummy, but doesn't actually say what he himself makes of them, nor does he really point out anything that hasn't already been said. An attempt to stay out of the spotlight without appearing like lurkscum?

For instance, this:

Okay, so I really didn't like this post because following his empty unvote shortly before this it just seems random and weak and forced. I felt like his random unvote and his vote on Marth is something that scum would do because most scum would be allowed to get away with something such as this. However I guess you could say that's also partially my gut telling me that.

...can be summarized as "it's scummy because it's scummy, but in case it's not it's a gut feeling". That's terrible reasoning.

Also, considering that what feels like half the playerlist called me out on it, the reasoning that "most scum would be allowed to get away with it" is quite obviously garbage.

Scarlet stuff: Early game stuff that I already mentioned I don't like. First big wall was primarily focused on Poly/Randa. Not many other reads were posted really at this point in time.

And that's scummy how exactly?

After this I felt like the majority of his other posts were spent defending himself from Marth and Mitsuki.

Again, how is this scummy? Do you think I should just have ignored them instead of responding to their arguments?

I also can't help it when my two scumreads for most of the day can't be arsed to participate in a game they signed up for. That doesn't mean I wasn't scumhunting - I already said that most other stuff that happened didn't particularly stand out to me, and I did question/respond to what I did found noteworthy.

Across a 24 hour period the reads haven't changed one bit

1. This is factually wrong. Marth solidified as a townread.

2. How is this scummy, particularly when neither of my scumreads made a single post in that timeframe?

Poly = Randa = Shinori > everyone else > Marth = SB

[Shinori]

Why exactly do I suddenly jump up to the equivalent of your top scum reads for putting forth suspicion against you?

1: A big wall early on focusing on 2 people isn't scummy persay as long as you also end up doing more than that. Which you haven't.

2: Defending yourself from people and scum hunting are two seperate things. Across the majority of your posts you haven't really asked many questions towards players or put forth many opinions on players except for the defending of yourself that you've been doing. I find this scummy because it could be the equivalent of active lurking. Just because you are making big posts doesn't mean that you are really doing anything.

3: Because I'm sure you're reads on other players had to have shifted some. What's your read on Shin? And if poly or randa(Or apparently me) weren't getting lynched who else would you vote for? Also I don't count Marth being solidified as a town read as a real change in your reads. Although technically is correct because of me saying it hadn't changed one bit. GG

[BBM]

Mehhhh I don't like lynching Vanilla claims. His Refa vote is kind of weak IMO but pushing Refa as a counterwagon to himself seems dumb if he was scum, considering Refa only had like 1 vote. Casing Poly or Randa would make more sense.

##Unvote

Speaking of Poly, the Poly wagon at this stage is dumb; he hasn't posted in almost 48 hours. Most of it is due to waffling on Marth, which was a read he was specifically asked for. It's not like he volunteered the read on his own, and you're not going to have well-defined reads on everyone that early. His post before that isn't great but considering it was <12 hours into the game it's seriously not worth lynching him for. Marth's vote is the worst; the given reasons are that Poly is inactive and that his logic is scummy and incoherent. However, he says in #142 that Poly's logic is never coherent, so suddenly using that as the main reason for why Poly is scummier than Raymond is dumb. And the other reason is that Poly is inactive, which isn't actually something we lynch people for.

##Vote: Marth

I'll look at Marth's other stuff later but I can't really remember anything actually townie he's done off the top of my head so I doubt it'll change my mind.

I know Marth has no votes on him but TOUGH I'll consolidate in the evening if nobody wants to sheep me, which they totally should.

[Scarlet]

1: A big wall early on focusing on 2 people isn't scummy persay as long as you also end up doing more than that. Which you haven't.

This is factually wrong.

I that same post I responded to SB, called out Shin on a remark I didn't agree with, asked Eury a question (which, as I just realized, she never bothered responding to), and made a statement about Marth and SB.

2: Defending yourself from people and scum hunting are two seperate things. Across the majority of your posts you haven't really asked many questions towards players or put forth many opinions on players except for the defending of yourself that you've been doing. I find this scummy because it could be the equivalent of active lurking. Just because you are making big posts doesn't mean that you are really doing anything.

You're one to talk.

3: Because I'm sure you're reads on other players had to have shifted some.

Why?

What's your read on Shin?

I stated that twice.

The buddying with Shin as pointed out by SB is also worth noting, although currently Shin himself reads more like bored noobtown to me than scum.

That self-vote is in fact part of the reason why I'm reading him as bored noob-town more than scum despite the fact that I agree that his play so far has been less than stellar.

And if poly or randa(Or apparently me) weren't getting lynched who else would you vote for?

As listed in my priority list, just about anyone not named Marth or SB.

Those last two questions I responded to felt empty, considering the answers were already there, and thus padding.

[Bluedoom]

Yes but that logic is still scummy as fuck since having a scumread on me AND Eli makes no sense without further explanation at least. I mean at least Raymond's logic is more sound than Poly's so even if he did seem opportunistic his arguments are better and seem less scummy. Like obviously meta kicks in and I doubt but its not like I have any stronger scumreads atm.

[Scarlet]

People, if you have a tendency not to notice when you're about to get ninja'd by someone else's post, you may want to quote what you're responding to, just in case. Disconnected posts like Marth's last one can be a bit hard to follow.

[Shin]

Are you saying you are a vanilla?

Also yeah, Shin's at L-3

Unless there's a mint chocolate chip role, but yeah, I'm totally vanilla. I'm totally not up for lynching myself either, but I don't really like the Poly wagon. In all honesty, I'm not too keen on Randa, I'm reading more null than anything else, although I do see where people are coming from. Although either would be better than lynching SHIN, I heard you can get sprinkles if you pay extra.

[Mitsuki]

I've been ISOing lurkers/main wagons. This is the only thing that I have to add:

Apparently I did this wrong earlier and I still haven't heard a valid reason not to so:
## Vote Scarlet

I don't like this because it feels like Randa expects his vote could be somehow invalidated, which probably comes from scum as scum know their cases aren't genuine. It's mainly because of the "still" part, otherwise it'd be a perfectly normal statement.

I don't think Shin's claim is townie or scummy.

Shin > Scarlet >> Randa > lurkers > everyone else