Yume Nikki Mafia - Day 3

[Scarlet]

Oh yeah:

[...] and his replies to my case didn't feel scummy [...] I still think Scarlet's scum though.

Can you expound on this? If you didn't take issue with my responses, this seems oddly adamant.

[Mitsuki]

The fact that your replies don't seem scummy doesn't mean that I agree with them nor that they feel townie.

[Elieson]

Apparently I'm the only one who showed up for work today out of the whole team, so I'll post when I can. I'm pretty glued to the phones for the next hour+ though, but I am here and catching up.

[Mitsuki]

Could someone tell me the name of a game where Shin was town? Same for Scarlet.

[Shin]

Healers Mafia, Eli's EO anon game, Folgore Rangers, Drafters... just to name a few!

[Bluedoom]

By Eli's EO anon game he means SHINING FORCE 3: SWORD OF HAJYA MAFIA where he played as India.

[Bluedoom]

Actually I can't read EO ok

[Shin]

Wow, for some reason I thought it was an EO game, man I suck at remembering stuff!

[Scarlet]

Same for Scarlet.

I was town in School of Hard NOCs.

I was mafia in Big NOCers, if you want to compare.

Note that these were both my first games as the respective alignment in a long time.

[Refa]

Refa's content seems surprisingly sparse, and it looks like he's not really putting in a lot of ~effort~. Do you have any other scum reads besides Randa? Is Marth still a scum read? Do you have a comprehensive opinion on Shinori, since you expressed some disagreement with a few of his points?

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

I still don't like SB, but what Refa has been doing (or not doing) strikes me as rather off. He virtually ignored one of the biggest arguments in ED1/D1 with "was never really bothered by Elieson" and "not sure what to think of Shin". (The part about Elieson also feels a bit vague because it feels like it's referring only to RVS, especially when he says "since RVS is over" in the same line.) He could've at least explained why he wasn't bothered by Elieson. Doesn't mention SB either except for a one-liner about how he brought up a point against Shin, and I'm pretty sure SB was involved in that spat at that point.

I don't have a problem with his Randa vote in itself, but I do have a problem with how he didn't really give reads about anyone else or elaborated on stuff in his previous post. I'm not sure if he's still scum reading Marth or if he's just "okay" now, or if he has any other strong reads. (Does BBM and Eury's suspicion sounding "forced" mean you think they're scum, and if you do think so how strong is that read?)

Probably because I'm not. Even if I get lynched/night killed/what have you, I can still win, and I put a lot of effort into the last game only to get screwed over at the end, so I'm not nearly as inclined to put forth a bunch of effort this time around. Yes, but considering my scumread on Shin is on the following post I can't really blame you for not knowing. Also Polydeuces, not specifically because he's inactive or his previous content was bad (I thought it was perfectly fine myself), but because he tends to lurk hard as scum; not really much to say on that front, though. Nope. No, if I thought Shinori was scummy I would have said so when I mentioned him. I think his long delayed super post was fine and I don't really get the issues people have with it.

What. If you're referring to Elieson vs Shin, that wasn't even a thing when I unvoted Elieson like seriously. I also mentioned specifically why Shin was a null read, so I don't even get what your issue is. I'm townreading SB, what is there to mention? Like this whole read is basically looking at my content in a vacuum without taking context into consideration.

Fair enough. Yeah, it did, but Eury explained her reasoning so I'm not really bothered by her anymore.

also Boron's post just now made me think to go read Refa's ISO and I'm not a huge fan, posting right after being prodvoted after apparently not bothering to post is weird and idk the meta for all you relative newbies well enough to know if he normally jokes around that much post-RVS but I'm tempted to think refuge in audacity. It's not a significant scumread but it's not null either.

I think at this point, noone would actually find me townier because of that.

- Don't agree with this logic. If half the game is acting like scum, then half the game is acting like scum. I don't care for the delay between Randa's reads and a vote, and how passive the vote sounded.

-If half of the game are acting like scum, then come up with a better method of reading scum. It's like being suspicious of people gunning for mislynches in Inception; the whole point of scumreading is to seperate scum from town, not to systematically file people under "Scummy" and "Not Scummy".

Skimmed Refa due to him getting cased and I agree that his content seems really on the ground, and his Marth vote comes in a post after he lays down his reasoning which is kind of strange. His Randa case is also kinda weak, based on him having a lot of scumreads (not a scumtell, and he acknowledges this), not having a clear lynch priority (null imo) and the rest of his case are sheeping things he doesn't even try to reference, so.

-I wanted a response from Marth.

-Not the reason I voted Randa.

-Pretty much (not sure what doesn't try to reference means).

A funny theme with Shinori, Refa and BBM is this charming devotion to me whilst sitting relatively in the background.

Pretty sure none of the players you mentioned have been tunneling on you at all.

[eclipse]

Requesting clarification here: are you asking why I didn't explain my vote for Poly at the time of my vote instead of before and after the vote, or are my reasons for voting for him not clear enough?

This showed up right after I went to bed.

I'd like to know why you dedicated all that time to Shin, yet felt that Poly warranted a vote despite all you said about Shin.

---

I REALLY don't like Refa's last post. It feels like he's trying to exist without actually scumhunting. It also says nothing about Shin's latest response, which I think would be important, given that Refa's vote is currently on Shin. The previous sentence also applies to Shinori.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

Since it looks like this is about as viable as Randa, and I'd rather have one of Shinori/Randa lynched today. This is also my last post of the phase.

[MRDRHAWK]

okay sorry my house was filled with random people last night and my laptop is fucking awful if I'm not in the living room

gimme some time to exist again

[Bluedoom]

Ok I'm going off now and won't be on until like... 10 hours from now? I'm not sure if I'll be on at deadline tbh but I'll see if I can make it.

[BBM]

Wow none of you said anything about my Marth vote. Not even Marth. You guys suck.

I could probably sheep the Refa wagon if nobody joins me in voting Marth; he seems to switch his vote like every post which actually feels more like "throwing stuff around and seeing what sticks" than what he claims Randa did. The Shin vote doesn't even explain which reads of his own he's sabotaging.

[scorri]

Hi, I know I haven't posted in a while, but I'm just going to be talking about things that have stuck out to me in no real order, sorry, I'll try to get a reread done at some point.

BBM's last post bugs me. First off, he drops Shin based solely off his vanilla claim and who Shin voted. To me, both of those are extremely weak reasons and don't make Shin not scummy or not town. They're null tells and don't say that Shin is or isn't scummy. Next, he bashes Poly voters because Poly hasn't been around. But just because Poly hasn't posted doesn't make him not scummy. He's calling people out for voting Poly over two posts but then does pretty much the same thing to Marth with a vague "Oh also I don't remember anything townie that he's done" All in all, I'm not liking this post.

Going back and reading the ISOs of the three people closest to getting lynched (aka Shin, Poly, and Refa). Obviously nothing has changed with my read on Poly, so mainly focusing on Refa and Shin.

I'm not really sure where the Refa votes are coming from? Eclipse's vote seems to be focused on Refa not scum hunting, which I'm not sure I agree with, Shin's seems to be "He's being lazy" Boron's is more of the same just with a bit extra padding. It's not that I think that Refa has been an amazing scum hunter who's found all the scum D1, it's just I'm not sure that he's scummier than other people. To me, he's a null with slight scum leanings, but is not a priority.

Shin started off the day on the defensive and hasn't really gotten off that. To be fair, he's been being attacked all day, but that doesn't change that a lot of his scum reads have been based on the fact that people find him scummy for "bad" reasons. Like his Mitsuki vote, like his SB suspicions. He voted Mitsuki for "pressure" but then just left it on him for the majority of the phase. In fact, from one post to the next post he went from claiming it was on as pressure to claiming that it was still on because he forgot about it. If the vote was the pressure Mitsuki into giving a response about her vote on Shin, that happened pretty quickly after the vote happened. He then drops his Eli read because of meta and the fact that Eli probably actually was in a bad mood.

In summary, I'd support either a Poly or a Shin lynch and then not sure beyond that.

[BBM]

Yeah the difference between Poly's two posts and Marth's two posts were that Poly's two posts were literally <12 hours into the game. There's a huge difference in which posts matter for whom you want to lynch at deadline and which ones don't.

What people claim, when they claim it, and how they claim it are totally indicators of alignment. If Shin had claimed Cop/Doc/Vig (and wasn't CCed), people would have unvoted him, and it bugs me that I have to hash out every single time why I don't like lynching people who claim Vanilla to avoid a lynch. 99% of the time the BEST case scenario when scum claim Vanilla in that situation is that people treat it as a null tell and don't change their vote. If they're unlucky and a counterwagon is a power role such as Cop/Doc/Vig, they get MORE votes from people who no longer want to vote the other guy. You can say WHAT IF SCUM WANT TO WIFOM but I am literally the only person on this forum who unvotes people based on this (which shouldn't be the case, but then I guess if it was WIFOM really would be valid), and it's risky even if there are more people.

[BBM]

Who you vote when you're going to be lynched as scum is also an indicator of alignment btw.

When "not me over me" is a completely valid vote reason, using that to vote for someone with 4 votes on them is a much better plan than voting a guy with only 1 vote even if there's a better case there. The only time it isn't is if the guy with 4 votes is your buddy.

[Kay]

I'd like to know why you dedicated all that time to Shin, yet felt that Poly warranted a vote despite all you said about Shin.

---

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

Since it looks like this is about as viable as Randa, and I'd rather have one of Shinori/Randa lynched today. This is also my last post of the phase.

Because (numbers are basically random, I'm not gonna go count, it's just to make a clear example) Shin did 12 scummy things and Poly did 3 scummier things. I'm still gonna point it out if I think something's scummy, so I spent more time on pointing out all the things Shin did that I have a problem with, even if they didn't add up to be as bad as all the things Poly did that I have a problem with.

I'm assuming you might have mistyped something here. Why are you voting Refa if it's as viable as Randa and you'd prefer that Randa or Shinori was lynched? Were you anticipating a wagon hop to Refa that you're consolidating on in advance or something?

Kay why are you making such a big deal about Shin's posts if you aren't scum reading him? This is kind of important.

Not my biggest scumread =/= not a scumread. Where did I say I wasn't scumreading him?

[charlie_]

Trying to get out a post but my puppy isn't exactly being conductive to that.

[Eurykins]

Blah... tired. Should be here for the deadline.

[Was going to do a post with everyone, but ran out of time, so only could manage BBM for now.]

- BBM:

- This vote against Scarlet, I feel, wasn't really meaningful at all. Scarlet commented that the reaction-test itself was dumb, and how it was conducted (based on text color n' shizz) was a poor choice. That, and the "I kind of think Elie is town because I don't think he'd pull a test that was so blatantly dumb as scum." is also poor logic, imo.

- I'm not quite sure what the issue was wrt to Scarlet's Marth vote here; from what I saw, Scarlet had his own reasons (as even you attested it with "a few more words behind" said vote), and I don't see how Scarlet asking Kay to "expound" on her reasons wrt Marth affected his vote much.

- Asks Poly wrt Elie being scum or not.

- WRT this post:

~ Vague read/notion on Raymond/Scarlet stating that "I think his recent posts are better", but nothing specific to back it up.

~ IMO, he took the mentioning of Scorri out of context, as I understood Shin's argument/post initially as just pulling up someone else random (as he said, it could've been any other random person mentioned who fit the bill). Though I do agree with the notion that Shin himself really hasn't done much else helpful/useful this game.

~ Still unexplained "Mitsuki could be scum" comment.

- Suddenly backpedals on Mitsuki WITHOUT REASON/stating WHY.

- Still stuck on the nitpicky Shin case wrt mentioning Scorri here.

- Case restated against Shin.

- WRT this post:

~ "Mehhhh I don't like lynching Vanilla claims." One of the easiest reasons/excuses to back off of a Vanilla claim. I don't really like it much.

~ "His Refa vote is kind of weak IMO but pushing Refa as a counterwagon to himself seems dumb if he was scum" Well, honestly, isn't it scum's job to blend in as townie as possible? I really don't trust his constant train of logic of "Oh, scum would be dumb to do X, so they must be town for it.", because all it means is that scum would play recklessly/in a way that BBM would perceive as "dumb" and would be insta-cleared by that simple logic.

~ "the Poly wagon at this stage is dumb; he hasn't posted in almost 48 hours."

1. Whose fault is that? Inactivity without notifying us = responsibility lies solely on the player.

2. At the time that he posted, people were having no issues saying their own reads without waffling madly about. ~12 hours into the posting and OUT of RVS phase = more than enough time to get your shit together and post what you need to. Timing was not a factor in his post quality, imo.

3. What keeps him from being lurking scum, as opposed to inactive townie? Either way, the fact stands that he's brought little to nothing to the table as a whole.

~ Marth vote looks pretty weak there, imo.

- Offering to sheep the Refa wagon here feels/sounds kinda bad as a whole.

- The logic regarding vanilla claims here is kinda meh. While I agree that timing and means of claiming (when/how) can affect how it's received and the intentions behind it, it still doesn't nullify the fact that, as a whole, a Vanilla claim is a null tell. This post as a whole feels like you're trying too hard to validate your logic behind backing off of Shin solely because of his Vanilla claim. (And if he knows you/your habits, why could he not be scum manipulating you at this point? Though that also implies the possibility of playing off each other as scumbuddies, imo.)

- I can agree partially but will also disagree on this notion regarding voting. Scum can just as easily vote townies as they can scum buddies; you never know until they flip (or get checked/caught by someone/something). Voting for a smaller wagon doesn't necessarily imply that the other higher wagons (aside from himself) = scumbuddies all the time; he could be relying on the fact that other people already have cases on them worth sheeping (and so actually makes those wagons seem even more viable) because he himself isn't touching it (so, in that light, he wouldn't be openly trying to wagon off the next highest person).

- Overall: Idk. BBM's logic has been pretty weak at times with his cases (wrt "Scum would be dumb to do X, so Y is probs town"), hasn't explained his Mitsuki thoughts/changes between the two posts linked earlier, and part of me isn't overly fond of his vanilla claim reaction/reasoning posted. I also don't get the feeling that he's produced a whole lot of productivity as a whole on his own. (He seems to ask questions, sure, but it feels like he's passively gaming/posting rather than actively pushing for progress.) Kinda leaning more scummy than not, atm.

[Gonna have to cut my post here-- mom's having issues with her knee, so I need to drive her out to run some errands n' whatnot. Be back in a few hours with the rest of the reads.]

[Mitsuki]

Eury, the reason why BBM changed his read on me was that the only reason he mentioned I could be scum was my lack of content, and I posted content a few minutes before he posted his post.

[charlie_]

I responded to post #160 right here, I did NOT ignore it. If you think I didn't answer the question you addressed towards me that's one thing but I did NOT ignore your post. I'm actually kind of mad about this, I know you think I'm forgettable as fuck, but fuck. :|

Uh, no, I know you responded to the post overall but I was saying that you didn't clarify what I was supposed to be overstating when I asked.

I don't like scorri's last post. First off she doesn't really follow up on her Shinori suspicion from the last post even though he's had more content since then (or Poly, but he hasn't so that's understandable), and it feels like she's just making that post because she has to get that post out there rather than she's actually hunting for scum, if she's just looking at the main wagons. Her Shin suspicion mostly feels like it could've been posted earlier in the day and not really be much different. Would like more opinions on this slot from other people in general besides "doesn't exist".

I buy Shin's vanilla claim as there's plenty of time from deadline so if he was scum he would have more time to think of a convincing fakeclaim or to decide if he wants to try and draw out a PR for the sake of his buddies. Don't really see this claim coming from scum.

Mitsuki's #225 seems bad. If you've been really ISOing wagons you should have far more to say on it than that and just saying "it's vanilla it doesn't change anything" without delving any deeper into it than that, it just feels like a convenient reason to keep down your vote rather than reacting to the claim at all, as well as not really saying anything on Shin aside from that in your post.

Refa's reasoning behind calling Poly scum is really stupid. Poly can be inactive as town or scum so it feels like it's an easy way for him to get onto a wagon if he wants to, even if he thought Poly's content post wasn't that bad. Most of that post in general wasn't really scumhunting either, which is kind of bad, especially since he sort of ignored Shin in that post aside to say "I'm not tunneling on you", but not saying anything about the person you're voting for is worse than tunneling on them imo.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

[Refa]

Quick summary of my thoughts on players if I get lynched:

Leaning Town- Bluedoom eclipse Elieson Eurykins Kay Refa SB Scarlet Shinori

Null- BBM Mitsuki Sangyul scorri

Leaning Scum- Polydeuces Randa Shin

I REALLY don't like Refa's last post. It feels like he's trying to exist without actually scumhunting. It also says nothing about Shin's latest response, which I think would be important, given that Refa's vote is currently on Shin. The previous sentence also applies to Shinori.

##Unvote
##Vote: Refa

Since it looks like this is about as viable as Randa, and I'd rather have one of Shinori/Randa lynched today. This is also my last post of the phase.

Probably because it's a response to the cases on me. Shin's last post was a vanilla claim, which really doesn't mean much to me. I'm vanilla too, does that make me obvious town? In NOCers Manix claimed some lame ass role that was "unlikely to be scum" too, and guess what alignment he flipped as?

Wow none of you said anything about my Marth vote. Not even Marth. You guys suck.

It was dumb because noone's actually going to lynch Marth. You should change your vote.

Refa's reasoning behind calling Poly scum is really stupid. Poly can be inactive as town or scum so it feels like it's an easy way for him to get onto a wagon if he wants to, even if he thought Poly's content post wasn't that bad. Most of that post in general wasn't really scumhunting either, which is kind of bad, especially since he sort of ignored Shin in that post aside to say "I'm not tunneling on you", but not saying anything about the person you're voting for is worse than tunneling on them imo.

Name the last game where Poly was this inactive as town on D1. How have I not been scumhunting at all?

[Mitsuki]

Well, SB, maybe other people know what kind of claims are scum claims and town claims, but I don't. I get people have said stuff on it but I can't go and sheep it if I know scum can claim vanilla as well.

Also I don't get why I should bring up so much more content after ISOing people, I already tried to pay attention to the thread when I was reading it for the first time. And it's usually really hard for me to find scummy stuff, specially D1. I've actually had a great D1 in regards to content compared to P3 and MLP:FiM mafia.

[Shinori]

This showed up right after I went to bed.

I'd like to know why you dedicated all that time to Shin, yet felt that Poly warranted a vote despite all you said about Shin.

---

I REALLY don't like Refa's last post. It feels like he's trying to exist without actually scumhunting. It also says nothing about Shin's latest response, which I think would be important, given that Refa's vote is currently on Shin. The previous sentence also applies to Shinori.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

Since it looks like this is about as viable as Randa, and I'd rather have one of Shinori/Randa lynched today. This is also my last post of the phase.

His last post didn't change my opinion of him too much which is why I hadn't taken the time to really reply about it. A vanilla claim could be town or scum. We were told to expect a lot of vanillas in this game which means it could easily be town, but it also makes for a really good fake claim: Also who's to know if scum have vanillas or not? I would say his claim 'felt' town but I mean that's only gut reading his claim and still ignoring everything else that has happened with his case.

Not my biggest scumread =/= not a scumread. Where did I say I wasn't scumreading him?

Sorry I thought I had read it somewhere. I probably just misinterpreted how you seemed to be acting.