Yume Nikki Mafia - Day 3

[Randa]

The reason why he voted Marth when his entire post only mentions him for ten seconds. After focusing of Eli and Refa Wagon.

[Shin]

Randa, virtually none of those points are original, most of them aren't even explained. How is Eli a null/town read? Has what he's done been neutral or is he sitting in the middle? What has BBM done? Who on earth is Raymond? Your mega-post is basically explaining various posts and repeating what people have already said, I'm struggling to see anything productive from these posts.

[Randa]

Raymond= Scarlet.

I already said BBM is strictly a gut red.

Eli is IMO neutral. Hence why I said null.

I already said most of these aren't original. I'm measly stating what I think and what I agree with.

[Eurykins]

It was a joke? Also read all of what I say and not just whatever you can point out as scummy, you'll see that I said that I don't think SB would be bussing at that time, so I wasn't applying the strategy thing.

You even quoted it...

I kind of agreed with SB's reasoning, but I didn't think it was very strong. I wouldn't have voted if not for the sake of the joke, though.

How you've talked to me kind of angers me, I don't think we've ever talked and you already feel like you can treat me like that? I get it's your posting style but you should really stop it.

Wrt the bolded statement: This is exactly what you said earlier:

My vote was mostly a joke, but since SB is a good player when he's town and likes bussing his scumteam when he's scum I think it's a valid strategy to sheep him. I don't think he'd be bussing his scumteam at that point though.

1. "Mostly" implies that there is still a semi-serious nature or otherwise it is not completely a joke vote. So you can't write off the vote as a pure joke after you yourself decided to state otherwise.

2. According to the post above, you give 2 reasons/means of why you'd sheep SB:

A. "Since SB is a good player when he's town"

and

B. "likes bussing his scumteam when he's scum"

Just because you don't believe that he's bussing at that time doesn't mean A. couldn't be true. In that aspect, you could just as easily be applying said "strategy" at that point (as you said so yourself- it was only MOSTLY a joke).

Wrt Italicized: We've played a few games together, but perhaps not that much. I may have been a bit blunt with my remarks, but the sheer amount of sheeping that I had to dig through ED1 was, quite frankly, a nuisance to deal with. I'm not one to overly beat around the bush when it comes to mentioning things like that, but if I was a bit too harsh with it, I'll apologize for coming off as such. I'm not apologizing for the pure meaning/intention of my remarks, but moreso how it came off to you.

(Though I will say- don't play the crying/victimizing card like I've seen others do it before please; it gets really annoying when people do that, especially if/when it drags out in Mafia games. If you have a real issue with me, take it to PMs and keep it there.)

I don't like how Eury seems to be trying to paint me as scummy by what I see as misinterpretations of the facts. Is Eury usually like this?

From what I recall she likes to post a lot of not-so-strong stuff. I don't recall misinterpretations though, but I might be biased because this time it concerned me.

1. I didn't even call you scummy- I just said I didn't agree with the sheeping gameplay you did, unless you're implying that you're scummy for it. So please, don't put words in my mouth, thanks.

2. Funny how you seem so eager to discredit my posting information as a whole. Not sure whether to be amused or annoyed.

Self voting is pretty bad even if it was an RVS vote. Only reason I didn't vote Shin for it was because Shin (only other person I wouldn't vote for it is Polydeuces). Anyways, that wasn't even Elieson's reasoning, so I feel like you kind of missed the point there.

If you read my comment on Elie closer, you'll realize that I actually commented on why Elie voted for Shin, but that I didn't really see the issue of Shin not having posted any content at that time. So no, I didn't miss it, Refa. And RVS is RVS- anything pretty much goes during that time, imo.

@ Eurykins: I don't think we need more votes being thrown around like party favors. Especially when the cause of distrust is two shitty votes barely out of RVS. If i remember correctly. Now that I have the time I'm going to try to catch up and reread.

I didn't say to throw them around without reason/support. But what you had posted was more than grounds for prod, pressure, or any sort of vote, and yet you refrained. It felt like you were standing back and pointing at something that you saw/felt wrong, but not committing to it fully.

[Sunwoo]

"Only two new pages," I said. Holy fuck did the game explode over the morning.

I'm not completely sure what's making Scarlet look as bad as people are finding him. I wouldn't say that his Marth vote is bad, and to be fair the part he asked Kay to expound on said, "Marth is overreacting to Refa" and not much else. Is it really that bad to ask someone to elaborate their vote on someone, even if you find that person scummy for the same reasons?

Poly's post looks okay to me, and his "I'm having a hard time reading Marth" is a valid point to me because he DID give opinions on what he thought about Marth after asked by SB. I kind of feel that SB was voting Poly for "how dare he not have strong opinions at this point in the game" and "how dare he throw suspicion on Kay, it's not like he doesn't know that she didn't have time to do stuff".

And as for SB saying "Poly and Shin are scum buddies" I hope you are joking? Remember a game called EO2 mafia where I rage subbed out before D1 ended? I spent a good part of my existence defending Shin against what I felt was a shit vote from Refa. (I still maintain Refa's reasons for that vote in that game were shit.) And while Shin was scum, I was a FUCKING ITP. People have to be scum buddies to defend each other now from what they feel are shit votes?

Wouldn't say that Elieson was tunneling on Shin, and Shin had a poor initial reaction. But I dislike SB more, I feel that he is blowing everything up out of proportion to make them look far worse than really were (especially with Poly) and speculating that Shin and Poly are scum buddies at this stage is just fucking stupid. When one of them flips scum or if they continue to "buddy" too hard, then we'll talk but NOT on page fucking four.

Kay, Poly's read on Marth would probably be "null leaning scum", which people have given as a read before.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

For reasons stated above.

Randa needs to be part of discussion more instead of posting short reads. Go into more detail at least if you're not able to actively participate in discussion.

Elieson's initial vote on Shin was kind of ??? especially when there was arguably more interesting stuff to look at during that point (people suspecting Scarlet, Marth suspicion stuff) and he drops what is essentially a pressure vote. Was whatever Shin did just so much worse than what other people HAVE been doing? It also feels like Elieson is surprisingly non-committal about the results from his … whatever he wants to call it. No opinions on Marth voting you for it? Do you have any opinions on people voting Marth over the SB's vote on Refa, even? This was one major point of discussion when your post went up. Actually, the fact that he pretty much ignored a lot of this stuff and went straight for a pressure vote makes me feel he's scummy.

Shin overreacted to Elieson's vote, that much is true, but I'm not sure why him deciding that Poly is not vote worthy is so scummy, and the basis of SB's vote on Shin just doesn't look good. Also, the whole "scorri" line of logic is really confusing. I'm not town reading Shin, but I find him less worse than Elieson and SB.

I have a couple of things to do IRL, so I might not be around for a bit.

[Prims]

Day 1.2 - Votals

Bluedoom (4) - scorri, Kay, Scarlet, Refa

Elieson (3) - Bluedoom, Polydeuces, Shin

SB (2) - Mitsuki, Sangyul

Shin (2) - Elieson, SB

Sangyul (1) - Shinori

Scarlet (1) - BBM

Polydeuces (1) - Eurykins

Not Voting: bearclaw13, Randa

You have 53 hours and 30 minutes left in the day. With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

E: ISO links have been added to the first post.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Prims

[Shinori]

STILL NEED TO REED PAGES 5 AND 6

Will I ever stop being town?

##Vote: Refa

Sheeping SB for best strategy.

Town wincon is usually/always colored blue in SF, right?

I don't think Elieson is scum because of asking about wincon color if it's usually a different color than his own. There's still something I don't get though; Elie: Why did you ask Marth and not someone else?

Willing to bet you rolled scum. I slightly question the Elie read.

Eli's just being himself and making silly reaction tests. I think Marth is overreacting to Refa's vote.

##Stab: bluedoom

This one liner sucks. Scarlet already commented on this and she did end up responding and I'll get to that later.

Okay, so what Raymond said about Elie was fair enough, but his Marth vote feels kind of bad because he tells Kay to "please expound" and then votes Marth for basically the exact same reason as her, but with a few more words behind it.

@Marth- okay I forgot about the initial vote. Why is Elie worse than Refa?

I agree with BBM here on the scarlet post WRT Kay.

These next two posts are kind of what caught my attention up to the end of page 4.

Alright, THE FLAN is slept and ready to jiggle for justice.

This is in regards to SB's vote on Refa (I'm not remembering that long-ass other thing), right? If you feel this way, then why is your vote still parked on Elie? Besides, Refa's post was arguably still RVS, so the unusual nature of the vote is natural. SB's vote similarly can be written off in this regard as a null tell, even if nobody's taking issue with it.

Mitsuki's vote is also bad and is admitted sheeping, though it may be RVS for her still so meh. Also, why do you care about the wincon thing when that wincon reaction test thing had nothing to do with you? IIRC, Prims always styles the "Town ______" as green. Others use blue just because. She did bring up a good point wrt Elie's test that I'm willing to pursue, though, so she's not a concern.

I'm not a huge fan of Kay just popping in with a one-liner and a vote, but I also don't like how Raymond jumped on it right away demanding reasoning. He also seems waffly in terms of the Elie thing, but I liked how he handled the whole thing. His Marth vote - which was essentially sheeping Kay - is kinda bad though.

Elie, why are you going on about Shin's selfvote? He probably still thought it was RVS (as evidenced by the way it was worded, almost as a reply to my RVS vote), plus... it's Shin. That sort of thing this early is null, especially for him. Elie in particular, what about Refa's last post is paranoid to you?

I also don't like the Marth targeting with his reaction test. It was pointless and I feel like we're wasting our time with it.

Randa, make an actual post that isn't bugging Shin for his self-vote.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eliedad

The elie vote in this post seems HORRIBLY out of place and weak. Compared to his reasoning for Scarlet reasoning which I felt was much stronger for a vote why did he choose to vote Elie? He is basically defending shin from the Elie vote by going "It's shin, he probably thought it was still RVS." This is bad.

Remember that funky timezone I live in? That was literally all I could get posted in my super short lunch break!

Eli's vote thing was clearly a joke, I'm surprised people were silly enough to even consider it anything meaningful. With a fair portion of the game not producing anything meaningful, I'm hard pressed to see how Eli can justify a vote on me over say scorri. Dat vote be scummy, looks like you're trying to get an easy wagon going on someone who hasn't posted much, it's got less conviction than a jury full of politically apathetic gibbons! Whilst Eli's test is by no means a scum tell, the sudden tunnel on me is.

Besides, the true colour of town is salmon pink, get it right, man. Mitsuki, learn to sheep harder! Also form an opinion on something! Start small, like global warming or whether bow ties are cool or not! And since you've posted again, you should really say why you're keeping your vote, is it still a joke or are you being serious?

Marth's vote on Eli could have had some sound basis, but the fact that Eli "might not know the colour" is a pretty weak case. Also the "Eli will get a wagon, regardless of alignment" is a horrible way to justify things.

Currently both Marth and Eli look pretty bad, although it'd make no sense whatsoever for both of them to be scum, unless this is one of Eli's schemes gone wrong.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Whilst SB has some valid points, I disagree with Poly being scummy, it feels more like Poly's standard "derp" play.

Now this post: He slightly defends Poly and his reasoning for his elie vote is also weak and pretty much solely based on Elie voting Shin. These posts are both pretty bad.

GONNA FINISH READING BEFORE I DROP MY VOTE. TO PAGE 5 I GO!

[Randa]

"Only two new pages," I said. Holy fuck did the game explode over the morning.

I'm not completely sure what's making Scarlet look as bad as people are finding him. I wouldn't say that his Marth vote is bad, and to be fair the part he asked Kay to expound on said, "Marth is overreacting to Refa" and not much else. Is it really that bad to ask someone to elaborate their vote on someone, even if you find that person scummy for the same reasons?

Poly's post looks okay to me, and his "I'm having a hard time reading Marth" is a valid point to me because he DID give opinions on what he thought about Marth after asked by SB. I kind of feel that SB was voting Poly for "how dare he not have strong opinions at this point in the game" and "how dare he throw suspicion on Kay, it's not like he doesn't know that she didn't have time to do stuff".

And as for SB saying "Poly and Shin are scum buddies" I hope you are joking? Remember a game called EO2 mafia where I rage subbed out before D1 ended? I spent a good part of my existence defending Shin against what I felt was a shit vote from Refa. (I still maintain Refa's reasons for that vote in that game were shit.) And while Shin was scum, I was a FUCKING ITP. People have to be scum buddies to defend each other now from what they feel are shit votes?

Wouldn't say that Elieson was tunneling on Shin, and Shin had a poor initial reaction. But I dislike SB more, I feel that he is blowing everything up out of proportion to make them look far worse than really were (especially with Poly) and speculating that Shin and Poly are scum buddies at this stage is just fucking stupid. When one of them flips scum or if they continue to "buddy" too hard, then we'll talk but NOT on page fucking four.

Kay, Poly's read on Marth would probably be "null leaning scum", which people have given as a read before.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

For reasons stated above.

Randa needs to be part of discussion more instead of posting short reads. Go into more detail at least if you're not able to actively participate in discussion.

Elieson's initial vote on Shin was kind of ??? especially when there was arguably more interesting stuff to look at during that point (people suspecting Scarlet, Marth suspicion stuff) and he drops what is essentially a pressure vote. Was whatever Shin did just so much worse than what other people HAVE been doing? It also feels like Elieson is surprisingly non-committal about the results from his … whatever he wants to call it. No opinions on Marth voting you for it? Do you have any opinions on people voting Marth over the SB's vote on Refa, even? This was one major point of discussion when your post went up. Actually, the fact that he pretty much ignored a lot of this stuff and went straight for a pressure vote makes me feel he's scummy.

Shin overreacted to Elieson's vote, that much is true, but I'm not sure why him deciding that Poly is not vote worthy is so scummy, and the basis of SB's vote on Shin just doesn't look good. Also, the whole "scorri" line of logic is really confusing. I'm not town reading Shin, but I find him less worse than Elieson and SB.

I have a couple of things to do IRL, so I might not be around for a bit.

Just a couple questions.

1. How do you let Raymond/Scarlet/Whatever put out a weak vote on Marth after calling out Kay for the exact same thing in his previous post and not think that's weird?

2. In EO2 were you and Shin clearing/covering each other or was it one way? The problem I have is that they both did it in a short period of time. Seems off.

3. What do you think about Eurykins and Mitsuki?

[Randa]

Just to clarify I mean Eury's case like thing on Mitsuki.

Apparently I did this wrong earlier and I still haven't heard a valid reason not to so:

## Vote Scarlet

[Sunwoo]

Just a couple questions.

1. How do you let Raymond/Scarlet/Whatever put out a weak vote on Marth after calling out Kay for the exact same thing in his previous post and not think that's weird?

2. In EO2 were you and Shin clearing/covering each other or was it one way? The problem I have is that they both did it in a short period of time. Seems off.

3. What do you think about Eurykins and Mitsuki?

HOLY FUCK WAS IT NECESSARY TO QUOTE THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING

1. Already explained. IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH.

2. I don't remember, I'm actively trying to forget that game even existed. Regardless, it's page 4, it's too early to make any serious "alignment tells" at this point. If they continue to do it or one flips scum, I'll be worried then, but right now I feel it's too early.

3. I feel that Eury has some legitimate points on Mitsuki, but it's not enough to make me want to call her scummy over it. On the contrary, I have no issues with either Eury or Mitsuki.

Leaving now.

[Shinori]

Fun fact: I actually said your case on Poly had some validity! Dat discrediting! I can definitely see where you're getting this view from, but I'm still reading neutral on Poly, and I'm definitely not going to scumread myself... or am I?

You did discredit it by saying he's just being standard "derp" poly. That's exactly what you said. That's called discrediting. If you say "I agree with SOME of your points however I just think Poly is being a derp." THAT IS STRAIGHT UP DISCREDITING. You are ignoring any and all logical reasons for why someone is acting scummy by countering with an illogical statement of "He's just being poly."

Whoa, I apparently didn't load page 4 while doing my check/reads. I'm so good at this!

Blah. More wishy-washy vibes imo, and the last line just feels/sounds really bad. "More likely to flip scum than town at this point", but still choosing to vote for Elie over him? Is Elie more prone to flipping scum than Marth?

...Wat? How are the bolded reasons above not valid reasons for voting someone? Bad votes/reasons behind said votes? Having bad cases (that could result in them voting people)? How... what is this even?

(I understand about RL stuffs, and that's fine. But I still don't understand how, in the list of people/reads you had, none of them warranted a vote of any kind from you. That logically makes no sense at all.)

ALL THE NINJAS, YO~!

*shrugs* Joke or not, still was an easy post/vote. (That and it seems that this D1 is just exploding with sheeps, which kinda annoys me and screams lack of effort from most.) In addition:

So there was some seriousness to said vote, AND she's doing so because she feels like she can/should do so as a valid gameplay (which I disagree with). That's what bugged me even more wrt said vote/post.

This post I felt was filled with absolutely nothing except for the bolded line which was in regards to Randa. Everything else I felt like wasn't needed and was just fluff.

It's not only the buddying, that's only part of it. As far as your Eli suspicion goes, you're just throwing all kinds of reasons for him to be mafia to see what sticks. Marth is one of your other suspicions, but the post where you call him out doesn't even properly explain why he's scummy. And as far as Mitsuki goes, your suspicion there is literally based on an RVS vote, which is weak. Very weak. That's why I'm voting you over Poly.

I feel like everything in this post is sheep worthy.

My response to Mitsuki was in jest after the sheeping joke was explained. My Eli suspicions are for his weak vote with poor reasoning, and the misrepresentation of what I said, he chose to try and imply that I suggested scorri was a more viable lynch candidate than myself. But please do cherry pick your reasons, the harvest is apparently lacking!

My post says Marth's suspicion on Eli for the reaction test and the colour thing were bad, I hope that's condensed things for you. I've also never suggested that you vote Poly over myself, again, something you've decided to infer for some reason! You mention my defense of Poly, but you're making quite a deal of defending Eli!

Why is your response to someone 'in jest' in the middle of the game heating up? Especially if your 'jesting' post sounds massively like a scum vibe on said person. You can't just brush off that you sound like your scum reading someone by just going 'Oh I was just joking."

"Only two new pages," I said. Holy fuck did the game explode over the morning.

I'm not completely sure what's making Scarlet look as bad as people are finding him. I wouldn't say that his Marth vote is bad, and to be fair the part he asked Kay to expound on said, "Marth is overreacting to Refa" and not much else. Is it really that bad to ask someone to elaborate their vote on someone, even if you find that person scummy for the same reasons?

Poly's post looks okay to me, and his "I'm having a hard time reading Marth" is a valid point to me because he DID give opinions on what he thought about Marth after asked by SB. I kind of feel that SB was voting Poly for "how dare he not have strong opinions at this point in the game" and "how dare he throw suspicion on Kay, it's not like he doesn't know that she didn't have time to do stuff".

And as for SB saying "Poly and Shin are scum buddies" I hope you are joking? Remember a game called EO2 mafia where I rage subbed out before D1 ended? I spent a good part of my existence defending Shin against what I felt was a shit vote from Refa. (I still maintain Refa's reasons for that vote in that game were shit.) And while Shin was scum, I was a FUCKING ITP. People have to be scum buddies to defend each other now from what they feel are shit votes?

Wouldn't say that Elieson was tunneling on Shin, and Shin had a poor initial reaction. But I dislike SB more, I feel that he is blowing everything up out of proportion to make them look far worse than really were (especially with Poly) and speculating that Shin and Poly are scum buddies at this stage is just fucking stupid. When one of them flips scum or if they continue to "buddy" too hard, then we'll talk but NOT on page fucking four.

Kay, Poly's read on Marth would probably be "null leaning scum", which people have given as a read before.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

For reasons stated above.

Randa needs to be part of discussion more instead of posting short reads. Go into more detail at least if you're not able to actively participate in discussion.

Elieson's initial vote on Shin was kind of ??? especially when there was arguably more interesting stuff to look at during that point (people suspecting Scarlet, Marth suspicion stuff) and he drops what is essentially a pressure vote. Was whatever Shin did just so much worse than what other people HAVE been doing? It also feels like Elieson is surprisingly non-committal about the results from his … whatever he wants to call it. No opinions on Marth voting you for it? Do you have any opinions on people voting Marth over the SB's vote on Refa, even? This was one major point of discussion when your post went up. Actually, the fact that he pretty much ignored a lot of this stuff and went straight for a pressure vote makes me feel he's scummy.

Shin overreacted to Elieson's vote, that much is true, but I'm not sure why him deciding that Poly is not vote worthy is so scummy, and the basis of SB's vote on Shin just doesn't look good. Also, the whole "scorri" line of logic is really confusing. I'm not town reading Shin, but I find him less worse than Elieson and SB.

I have a couple of things to do IRL, so I might not be around for a bit.

You seem WAY too emotional at SB for voting Shin. Don't let real life slip into mafia now Boron. ;P But no serious:

The bolded is your case on SB. I'll break this into three parts.

1: The first paragraph consists of SB's reasoning's against Poly. And I kind of feel like you are misrepping his case on Poly with this post. Poly voted Elie when he had better reasons to vote for Scarlet, or even Kay. There were plenty of things wrong with Poly's post.

2: The second paragraph talking about how Shin and Refa are supposedly defending each other from 'shit votes' The issue here is their votes are just as bad as Elie's vote was except shin's jumps to the levels of OMGUS. You don't have to be buddies to defend each other although it is more likely whether you want to admit it or not. The biggest issue here is BOTH Shin and Poly posted better reasons for voting different targets yet both of them voted Elie. This is the kicker of the situation and what makes it really bad.

3: I do admit with your third paragraph though that trying to link two people as scum on page 4 isn't going to get us anywhere. However I don't really agree that he's blowing things out of proportion. He pushes onto two people that he finds suspicious and questions them for viable reasons.

I do agree with your logic on Elie's vote being bad. Now that I'm caught up though.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shin

Shin: Why is Elie scum over your other scum reads?

Shin > Poly > Boron = Elie = Eury = Scarlet = Randa > Everyone else at the moment.

[Randa]

Why would you rank Eury, Eli, Scarlet, and myself above the rest? Anything in particular for that?

[Sunwoo]

You seem WAY too emotional at SB for voting Shin. Don't let real life slip into mafia now Boron. ;P But no serious:

Okay, not even responding to the rest of your post right now because not in the mood, but this is a low fucking blow Shinori. I don't care that this is a joke. I am at a point where I am seriously questioning just how "objective" I am around Shin in mafia games. Is it SERIOUSLY that I find him less scummy than everyone else does or am I just letting bias slip in? I've been in a shitty, depressed, and angry mood for the last week or so. THIS WAS JUST A LOW BLOW I DID NOT NEED TO SEE SHINORI.

[Shinori]

Elie's shin vote was lack luster and he seems unmemorable besides that, avoiding content not really saying much, lurking. Whichever you want to take as your reasoning.

Eury's cool with me because of her poly vote however she has a lot of needless fluff I feel in her post after that and in the following post it felt like she was defending herself more than scumhunting.

I really don't like Scarlet's Marth vote.

As for you Randa you have a couple posts that I don't quite like. Eury pointed out one thing when you said you weren't wanting to vote that you had plenty of vote worthy reasons to vote for people. Speaking of which, why did you vote Scarlet over your other scum reads? Speaking of which, what are your other scum reads Randa?

[Shinori]

Okay, not even responding to the rest of your post right now because not in the mood, but this is a low fucking blow Shinori. I don't care that this is a joke. I am at a point where I am seriously questioning just how "objective" I am around Shin in mafia games. Is it SERIOUSLY that I find him less scummy than everyone else does or am I just letting bias slip in? I've been in a shitty, depressed, and angry mood for the last week or so. THIS WAS JUST A LOW BLOW I DID NOT NEED TO SEE SHINORI.

You should probably take a break walk away from the computer and relax or something.

I didn't anything that could be construed as harmful or rude or mean at all. It wasn't even serious. So if you are in a bad mood that's gonna cause you to be emotional just relax walk away and take a few deep breaths.

[Randa]

Elie's shin vote was lack luster and he seems unmemorable besides that, avoiding content not really saying much, lurking. Whichever you want to take as your reasoning.

Eury's cool with me because of her poly vote however she has a lot of needless fluff I feel in her post after that and in the following post it felt like she was defending herself more than scumhunting.

I really don't like Scarlet's Marth vote.

As for you Randa you have a couple posts that I don't quite like. Eury pointed out one thing when you said you weren't wanting to vote that you had plenty of vote worthy reasons to vote for people. Speaking of which, why did you vote Scarlet over your other scum reads? Speaking of which, what are your other scum reads Randa?

Don't really agree with Eury but I got a null so I don't mind hearing other opinions.

I voted scarlet because it's who I think is most likely scum. The other being tentative towards Marth and Shin. And I still feel weird about BBM. I don't know why. It's kinda irritating, cause I can't figure out why.

[Sunwoo]

1: The first paragraph consists of SB's reasoning's against Poly. And I kind of feel like you are misrepping his case on Poly with this post. Poly voted Elie when he had better reasons to vote for Scarlet, or even Kay. There were plenty of things wrong with Poly's post.

2: The second paragraph talking about how Shin and Refa are supposedly defending each other from 'shit votes' The issue here is their votes are just as bad as Elie's vote was except shin's jumps to the levels of OMGUS. You don't have to be buddies to defend each other although it is more likely whether you want to admit it or not. The biggest issue here is BOTH Shin and Poly posted better reasons for voting different targets yet both of them voted Elie. This is the kicker of the situation and what makes it really bad.

3: I do admit with your third paragraph though that trying to link two people as scum on page 4 isn't going to get us anywhere. However I don't really agree that he's blowing things out of proportion. He pushes onto two people that he finds suspicious and questions them for viable reasons.

1. I have to disagree, because I don't feel that Poly had better reasons to vote for Scarlet or Kay. The only person I feel he had a stronger reason to vote over Elieson was Marth.

2. More likely, but not guaranteed. Also, in Shin's original post where he voted Elie, the only people he mentioned at that time were Elie, Marth, and Mitsuki. He considered Elie and Marth worthy of a vote and picked Elie instead. So … you think he should have voted for Marth instead?

3. If SB thinks that Poly and Shin are scummy, that's one thing. But to try to push a scum buddy angle at this point is scummy in my eyes. Make a note of it if you feel it's of concern - "Poly and Shin seem to be backing each other up quite a bit, might be worth looking into if one of them flips scum". But trying to argue they're scum buddies on page 4 is grasping.

Also, here's something to note. SB says that he feels Marth is town, but Marth was also most likely the biggest wagon at the time the post was made. If you think the dude is town, why did you have no opinions on his wagon? If someone I felt was town was the biggest wagon at the time, I'd be looking at the people on that wagon. Elie also has no actual opinion of Marth, no comment other than "I wanted to see how he would react". Even if your opinion on him is "null, can't decide right now," do you have any thoughts on him other than "Marth is hard to read"?

[Elieson]

Busy right now but I think Marth is more than likely to be town for reasons related to his reaction towards others more than myself, hence why I both unvoted him and haven't instigated more from him aside from him not yet answering my question.

More when I'm not bathing a toddler

[Elieson]

Actually one more thing because I want to flat out just say it

Marths' reaction to me laid the level of his emotional mindset in this game. Marth typically plays level headed for the long term, meaning that inconsistencies in his seriousness and attitude towards pressure and questions as the game goes on probably mean something.

He also dropped the bomb with not wanting to answer the question immediately, but followed it up with suspicion on me, which I think was warranted from considering things from his perspective. I think scum would have tried to blow it off more.

There. I can't spell it out any more than that

I think shin is scummy for reasons that SB stated a while ago summing up his inconsistencies wrt the scorri thing. I think Mitsuki is sorta scummy for kinda playing dumb and responding just enough to look involved in the me/marth thing, without actually committing to anything, and her reaction to Shin seems out of place because iI strongly disbelieve that she's clueless on shins style of play.

My Refa votes have mostly been for shits. I don't have any serious read on him one way or another.

Poly, I need to examine more

THERE NOW I'M FINISHING BATHING ALEXIS

[Eurykins]

Shoving this all in a spoiler shizz to keep things clearer.

I think Marth is town who's looking in the wrong direction due to #45, the "scum may or may not have fakes" comment he said that Prims made doesn't sound like something that Prims would tell scum and I don't think that Marth would think of faking something like that either?

I'm a bit wary of this statement made earlier, because your town read on Marth seems based on something that you assume Prims wouldn't tell scum. Which is weird imo, because the statement in itself ("scum may or may not have fakes") is pretty much one of the most generic statements you could get from a mod, or even put in the rules themselves. It's not hard to fake receiving a null/neutral statement like that, especially when (in my eyes at least), it's kinda common sense that "scum may or may not have fakes"; fake claims exist for a reason.

Currently both Marth and Eli look pretty bad, although it'd make no sense whatsoever for both of them to be scum, unless this is one of Eli's schemes gone wrong.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Whilst SB has some valid points, I disagree with Poly being scummy, it feels more like Poly's standard "derp" play.

Italicized rubs me the wrong way, and underlined has already been elaborated on by others. Moving on.

I hardly see how being neutral on Poly whilst you think he's scummy is wild enough for you to consider me scum for it. You're also relying on my town meta... which I didn't realise even existed! I just assumed I had scummy and actually scum meta!

Underlined: Oversimplification of SB's case on you (attempting to down-play it?).

Bolded: Also leaves a bad vibe.

Eli's vote wasn't particularly solid but your vote back on him just seemed to be completely reactionary and it doesn't look like he's misinterpreting what you've said at all to me, and wrt the scorri point, it seems like you're voting Eli for what he could've done, rather than what he has done. If I was a dayvig and it was possible for me to shoot the claimed cop, would that make me scum?

I kinda misinterpreted the Marth part though because of you saying his vote could've been good (would like you to elaborate on that a bit though, just because it was on Eli, or ???) so my bad there.

My Eli defense is coming from the fact that I'm hard townreading him, which is kind of different to the interactions of you and Poly.

I'm not sure if you've already elaborated before (didn't see it in your ISO, but I may have missed it), but why are you hard townreading Elie?

I don't like this post and this post by SB. I think it's scummy to say someone is scum like that because you don't really give any reasoning for it, which is easy and something scum would tend to do, as it's harder to come up with convincing wordings for the stuff they say. Also, it attempts to give the feeling of being casual with the game.

Regarding the second post, SB explained it here, but it still lacks the reasoning on why it would be scummy, it's just pointed out as something "interesting".

Also, associative reads when none of the players have flipped and this early in the game are bad.

Overall, SB's coming up with good reasoning most times (neutral) but other times it just feels like he's trying to paint people as scummy.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Also, is Shin usually like that? He seems to be taking this game very easy and making jokes all the time, and I don't know if that's scum trying to seem casual about what they're doing or just his posting style.

I hope I don't sound disrespectful because that's not my intention.

SB, I don't think Shin is suspecting me.

First linked post- I have no issues with. It's no different from people saying, "Oh, X must be scum" especially around RVS time (and that SB post was on Pg. 3, so doesn't seem too off to me).

Second linked post- I can see where that's a slightly different case/situation (in which people could attempt to line up lynches or otherwise narrow priorities/suspicions onto them), but still didn't seem horrific to me.

Overall though, the rest of the italicized seems to grasp for a reason to make those two posts look worse (And, maybe it's just me, but what's wrong with being "casual with the game"? He's a senior player on the forums; I'd find it more strange if he wasn't being casual. I don't see much logic in that being a scumtell in any regard, unless I'm misunderstanding the casual aspect/point.)

Though, I have to say: You keep on asking "Is X usually like that?" (even regarding myself). Meta is part of the game, sure, but you're better off just posting based on what content you're seeing in-thread if you don't know the player personally, imo. Meta speccing only gets a person so far, and I've seen cases where "meta reads" skew in-game reads just because someone makes a bad play/post that otherwise seems out of the 'norm' for their town meta.

Not sure what to think of Shin. Like yeah, he's made some bad plays like a reactionary vote and SB brought up a good point about his meta but like...Shin tends to be a lot more forgettable as scum. It just doesn't feel right. Marth's bothering me the most ATM because of what I already said and his lack of a response since then despite being there. BBM's Scarlet suspicion seems really forced, I don't get it at all. Same goes for Eurykins' reads on Elieson and Mitsuki. Noone else is really pinging me though, what a pain in the ass. Scum, act scummier kthnxbye.

Bolded statement feels like he's downplaying Shin's gameplay thus far, due to "scum meta" (SFMM4 vibe much?), which I really don't care for. "It just doesn't feel right" also seems a good way to defend Shin wrt SB's case without committing yourself to fully defending him openly.

Italicized: How were either forced?

So quick notes before I do a mega post.
Shin: Tunneling Eli IMO. But his tunneling is really just bringing up the same point(I think I'm kinda confused if you can't tell). Null/Minor Scum. Has an interesting moment where he and Poly seem to be buddying. Not sure what to make of that. Really depends on how one of them flips.
Marth: Definitely overreacted but I don't think its as bad as I originally thought. Null/Minor Scum.
Raymond: The votes bad. No doubt about it. And looking back I really don't even see him try to justify it. I do see him prod people for better reads, but I don't think that's an alignment tell. Scum. Would definitely like an explanation.
Eli: Don't think he's scum. Not sure he's town but I'm kinda solidly Null on him.
Also I'm kinda weary of BBM. I don't know why but I got a gut feeling.
Anyways time to dig up quotes. With no ISO's.
:(

Bolded: The reads themselves are pretty vague/bad, imo. Seems extremely flimsy notions on Shin, odd back-pedaling on Marth, and you basically say nothing on BBM or Elie.

Raymond= Scarlet.
I already said BBM is strictly a gut red.
Eli is IMO neutral. Hence why I said null.
I already said most of these aren't original. I'm measly stating what I think and what I agree with.

As far as I could tell, you never elaborated on your "BBM gut read", whether he's leaning scum or not. You must have gotten the feeling somewhere and something must have triggered it.

Yeah, you said Eile's neutral. WHY? Why isn't he town or scum in your mind?

Italicized: Yeah, hardly any of this is original. Shouldn't you fix that? And you're hardly stating what you're thinking/agreeing with unless your mind is a blank slate and is otherwise not contributing more thoughts as you go on with the game. I'm not seeing a whole lot of YOUR voice/thoughts in your post, and most of the 'reads' are vague beyond reason.

-- At this point, Randa's bothering me quite a bit. Throughout his ISO, he's only focused on: Elie, Raymond, Marth, and Shin in terms of his "reads list" (Elie/Shin coming in only in his later posts), with sparse notions of BBM. However, there is little to almost nothing that I see actually put forth in terms of his own thoughts/concerns wrt any of them, and his "megapost" did nothing to impress me in terms of him bringing meaningful content to the table.

Mitsuki seemed a bit graspy with her posts, but I'm not drawing out a lot of scummy vibes from her atm.

Shin's gameplay has been pretty bad, but don't care to re-iterate everything that's been said on him already.

Refa's worrying me, given the potential use of meta-clearing someone, so currently re-looking through him.

Poly still reads the same to me as he did in the previous post (in which I voted for him), but atm Randa is pushing up an equal amount of scum vibes in terms of gameplay thus far.

Priorities atm: Randa = Poly = Shin > Refa > Everyone else.

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

[Da Bear]

Oh, hey this started.

Let me catch up and stuff

[Refa]

I don't like how Randa's scumreading like 5 people. Whenever people scumread more people than (the reasonable expectation for) scum in the game (for this size, I'd expect 3-4), it shows at least some sort of willful ignorance on their part; not necessarily scummy, but it's bad play overall. Would at least like some sort of lynch priority from him though, as it is it comes across him throwing a bunch of scum reads and seeing what sticks. Also Kay made a good point about his Raymond case, I don't really get his read there at all.

If you read my comment on Elie closer, you'll realize that I actually commented on why Elie voted for Shin, but that I didn't really see the issue of Shin not having posted any content at that time. So no, I didn't miss it, Refa. And RVS is RVS- anything pretty much goes during that time, imo.

Fair enough, sorry about that; I have BBM level reading skills, after all. Self voting defeats the point of RVS, though.

And as for SB saying "Poly and Shin are scum buddies" I hope you are joking? Remember a game called EO2 mafia where I rage subbed out before D1 ended? I spent a good part of my existence defending Shin against what I felt was a shit vote from Refa. (I still maintain Refa's reasons for that vote in that game were shit.) And while Shin was scum, I was a FUCKING ITP. People have to be scum buddies to defend each other now from what they feel are shit votes?

Just because I made a bad associative read doesn't mean all associative reads are bad? I mean SB's not even voting Shin for that, and you've stated no other problems with his Shin vote, so do you think his vote there is fine?

(also game theory but I think scum is far more likely to buddy with town than scum, especially on D1)

You did discredit it by saying he's just being standard "derp" poly. That's exactly what you said. That's called discrediting. If you say "I agree with SOME of your points however I just think Poly is being a derp." THAT IS STRAIGHT UP DISCREDITING. You are ignoring any and all logical reasons for why someone is acting scummy by countering with an illogical statement of "He's just being poly."

I don't really agree with this. He's saying SB has some valid points but why he doesn't agree with it; discrediting implies that he's lowering the value of the points. Yeah, his reasoning was pretty lame ("lol Poly" really) but I think you're MISREPPING SCUMSCUMSCUMBBM'SCUMMETASCUM misinterpreting his actions.

I really don't like Scarlet's Marth vote.

As for you Randa you have a couple posts that I don't quite like. Eury pointed out one thing when you said you weren't wanting to vote that you had plenty of vote worthy reasons to vote for people. Speaking of which, why did you vote Scarlet over your other scum reads? Speaking of which, what are your other scum reads Randa?

Can you explain regarding Scarlet's vote because I thought it was pretty OK and his reasoning is similar to my own.

Randa has a lot of scumreads, the issue is his ordering because look earlier in this post to find out.

Oh, hey this started.

Let me catch up and stuff

Finally, the Mafia Framer enters the scene; please target me kthnxbye.

Bolded statement feels like he's downplaying Shin's gameplay thus far, due to "scum meta" (SFMM4 vibe much?), which I really don't care for. "It just doesn't feel right" also seems a good way to defend Shin wrt SB's case without committing yourself to fully defending him openly.

Italicized: How were either forced?

Refa's worrying me, given the potential use of meta-clearing someone, so currently re-looking through him.

Firstly, in SFMM4 I was ITP, which means my play was similar to my town play; ergo, SFMM4 vibes either means you're reading me as ITP (amazing day copping abilities DUN DUN DUN) or town, so I question why you have me in your lynch priority Secondly yeah, I'm not fully defending Shin. Why would I fully defend a Null Read?

I said so in the post itself; you already responded to both of the points I had against you though, so no issues there.

Meta reads aren't scummy.

Anyways, sheeping Eury's Randa case (with a few points of my own, I guess). BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Bluedoom]

I don't get why anybody would answer that scum might have fakes when you ask them if you can talk about the color of your PM. What did you ask exactly?

Also, what do you mean about scum being unaware about the wincon bit? I mean, I get what you're saying, but why do you think it's relevant?

Basically I asked Prims if Eli's question was modkillable, so he said no, but that scum may or may have fakes. Which beats me but it made me paranoid that Eli was scum fishing for wincon stuff.

also this thread exploded and I'm kinda outta time but I've got lots to say, maybe in an hour. Before that though, ##Unvote ##Vote: Polydeuces

He votes Elie over me even though he actually says a lot more about me than Elie. With Elie its just "Elie Y U think Shin selfvote scummy?" and he doesn't even say Elie's behaviour is outright scummy while wrt me he legit finds my behaviour(Refa read) scummy but doesn't vote me?

[scorri]

Right then. First off,

##Unvote

That vote was an RVS vote.

I think that Poly's a bit weird. When asked about Marth, he gives a pretty flip floppy read saying that Marth's reaction to Eli was perfectly reasonable but then calls that weird, but then calls him scummy for a few reasons that aren't really explained and then saying a pressure vote doesn't make sense ED1 (which to me is just wrong, is there a reason a pressure vote is bad ED1? It's to get reactions, etc.)

However, Marth saying that Poly's vote on Elie over him was scummy isn't actually that bad since Marth really simplifies the case on Elie, since it wasn't just about the Shin vote, it also included targeting Marth with the reaction test, and then asked about Refa as well.

Shinori's Shin vote feels weak to me and feels like he was focusing too much on Shin and ignoring a good chunk of the other game. I'm not sold on Shinori being scum but something feels off here. For now though

##Vote: Poly

[Eurykins]

@Refa:

Wrt Shin post: All good, and yeah- I'll agree with you in that the RVS vote Shin made was a fairly bad one, but was still within the realms of RVS, I feel.

Wrt meta shizz: You're on the list (but pretty low on it) due to the uncertainty of the vibes I'm getting from you. The feeling I got from your ITP gameplay wasn't town!Refa by any means (which is why I was nearly 100% sure you were scum in some regard by the end of D1), so I'm not sure I agree with you on the notion of "I'm either regarding you as ITP or town" (and I'm actually knida confused in how you came to that conclusion). However, you're not using the meta reason/logic to verify both your town reads and scum reads as avidly as you were in SFMM4, which is why I'm not sold on you being completely scummy (would be more accurate to label you as "null, leaning scum", hence the lower priority in the listing) by the same reasons/gut reads as I did in SFMM4.

(And though meta reading isn't altogether scummy, no- it's a matter of degree to how people use them. If you purely go off of "What X would do as town/scum" as opposed to also taking into consideration in-game/thread content, then that's where it starts looking really weird, which is what was pinging me about you in SFMM4- you seemed to ignore some of the cases there in lieu of what you were feeling were people's "town meta's".)

And noting the "fully defending" thing; I'm not claiming that you were fully defending him, but the italicized comment just made it seem like you were trying to defend him without being open/super obvious about it. If that makes sense. (Avoiding the buddying aspect and such).