Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia [Game Over]

[Refa]

Prims' Manix case seemed really forced to me, even for ED1. How would you expect Town!Manix to respond to your message?

Being able to read others' messages does sound like a scummy role, but it's not as though a standard investigative role would be able to tell that Manix had been scumhunting with it, so he wouldn't be under suspicion even if someone tracked him. It's not considered standard to claim solely because your role sounds scummy, is it?

I don't know about standard, but this is something Manix does as town see: Inception (am I doomed to reference my worst game ever perpetually).

I wouldn't call myself an informed townie (and also I'm Ritz; why would Marche be hated???). I don't know the alignment of the person referred to in my role PM, so knowing that there's someone with a handicap in their flavour doesn't really provide the town with any information which would help them catch scum. They are, however, important to my role, so they should contact me.

Cracker (get it, because white hair haha I'm clever).

##Unvote
##Vote: Green Poet

I like this too right now

Why?

I think Prims is likelier scum than Manix, but that odd claim is still worth considering.

##Unvote

##Vote: Prims

What do you mean by "worth considering"? Also don't like how you only voted after being proded, but you did this your last town game too ugh... Why is Prims scum?

[Grace]

Why?

go read my posts

[Refa]

go read my posts

As far as I can tell, you're currently voting her for being graspy and overblowing minor points (correct me if I'm wrong); I don't really have any issues with your present read on her. However, I'm specifically referring to your initial vote here. You didn't point out any issues with her posts at the time, which is why the sudden voteswitch to her confuses me.

[Refa]

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Quit lurking, scum. :V

[Grace]

refa: it may not have been obvious, but the posts before that show that i did not like GP's thought processes and case pushing implicitly

also do you have any other real opinions other than "prims' ed1 was forced" and maybe a little bit for GP.

[Grace]

@refa: actually better yet; why did you vote SB instead of pursuing anything over that potential Prims read?

[charlie_]

Man, I forgot what it was like waking up to like 5 pages overnight, thanks Manix. I think we should play with NOC TOWN LEADER as soon as we get a clear too.

SUPERHATED is probably our Doctor and it's just making it much easier for us to lynch it, so BBM is probably town. So is Manix for his claim and general playstyle.

I'm not sure that confident that GP is scum, honestly. A lot of her pushes seem based on kinda sketchy logic, but it that isn't really much of a tell for her and I'm not so sure she'd be this loud while fighting a losing battle as scum, rather than backing off a bit or asking buddies for help with what to say.

Don't really like Refa's posts, they amount to a couple of questions after quotes and the only thing he really pursues in that post is from RVS which is kinda eh too, and his jokevote on me almost feels like he's trying to hide his lack of opinions.

##Vote: Refa

My reads all feel really weak considering the amount of words that happened tbh.

[charlie_]

plus when has refa ever been town, and i'm 20% cooler than him anyway

[eclipse]

Alright, I'm back.

I'm not surprised to see a slapfight, but it's not Manix/BBM. ;/ The worst thing on Manix, IMO, is the initial vote (didn't catch anything off about his tone at that point); for Prims, it's a long response to Manix followed by what looks like a random vote on Refa. Neither of these strike me as particularly scummy. GP seems to be trying to hard to read into everything, and I get the sense that she's dumping her thought process out there (which, IMO, isn't scummy). At the moment, her inability to read Prims posts properly and outing her thought train makes me think she's not worth voting for ATM.

The only time I'd agree to this is if the other choice is another D1 doctor lynch

FFM seems to be confused about the entire issue (seriously, this should be enough to form some sort of opinion on someone instead of focusing on something BBM said). Thing that bothers me most about this is the fact that FFM chose to focus on role instead of interactions - I don't think rolespeccing the game D1 is a good idea at this point. Poly needs to explain more than a single question - it looks like he's skim-following, which is better than what FFM is doing. Refa says stuff about Prims/Manix. . .and doesn't bother stating a read. This weirds me out slightly more than FFM because dodging stuff is Refa's scumtell.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

Hurryap with that post, Refa. I got tired of waiting for you. FFM, I see you in here. Say something.

[euklyd]

Someone tell me how Green Poet's terrible forced case and lousy logic is any different than her normal town behavior - the sort of behavior I tunneled her for over the course of the entire game as scum in Almost OC.
pedit: Ninja'd by SB.

The only scumminess I see right now is probably the push on GP by players who should know better, but idk I might be on her as well if I hadn't just seen exactly that sort of play in my previous game(s).

And also Refa for existing. realtalk: Refa is saying a lot of nothing...but really so am I; I don't exactly have many reads of any strength at all. The SB vote is weird though.

BBM is more likely than not town because hated imo. Agreed with other people that Manix would have no reason to claim his role like that as scum. No idea about Prims.

Basically - being killed doesn't affect my capacity to continue furthering the town wincon, but by the same coin, it's close to a NL in practice and that may not be worth the potential loss of information. Whether or not this triggers is conditional as well, and I'm not told what conditions I need to fulfill.
I've never seen a role like this, so I'm asking the more experienced players to advise on how this should be handled, and whether or not offering myself up for an experimental lynch is worth the effective NL.

No. Especially not if it's "being killed" that makes you not-die, as opposed to a lynch. Even if it were just lynching, it's still a dumb idea, since town gains literally nothing from it. It sounds like a weird stump, I think.

Sidenote:

I wouldn't call myself an informed townie (and also I'm Ritz; why would Marche be hated???).

Marche is literally trying to destroy a world that borders on Paradise™ for his friends, and the lives of everyone living in it. Better question: Why would Ritz be hated? Also I'm the informed one, even if the info is shit.
[spoiler=Even sidier sidenote: I personally like Parrhesia's take on Marche being hated]Note: Belf = Marche.

And now, the one, the only, the unbeatable, our cowlick-toting hero himself, BEL--

Pauline: This is bullshit, Belf.
Belf: What?!

Eh?

Pauline: Oh yeah, bitch, you're in for it now.
Francheska: We heard what you wanted to do from some of the girls at Clan Ritz. 'Blow up the world', is that it? Hah! Go fuck yourself.
Belf: Hey... those are mean words.

What's going on here?

Pauline: Oh, you ain't goin' nowhere, buddy.
*sounds of scuffling*
Belf: Hey! Don't tug on my cowlick.
*more scuffling*
Belf: Oh man, I hope that heals easy-
???: BLONDIE!!!!!
*a pause. Silence*
Sabina: Holy shit, man, holy fucking shit, who called-
*the door slams open, off its hinges, caroming into Eldena. Pallanza, Ravel, Monte, Nelin and Higgins enter*
Belf: Hey, you guys, what's wrong?
Monte: You fucking KNOW what's wrong, you sick cunt! I'll fuckin' tear your limbs off-
*sounds of scuffling*
Higgins: No, Monte, you're just- argh! stereotyping the bangaa even further... nnggh! Great, if Nol could see us now he'd ... probably just quit again...
Monte: --FUCKIN' MURDER YOUR EYE SOCKETS--
Nelin: Monte! We're trying to keep him alive! Torture, remember? It's the bangaa way.
Pauline: Ahh, shit, that blood ain't washin' out.
Monte: --SKULLFUCK YOUR CRIPPLE BROTHER TOO--
*more scuffling, sounds of glass breaking, etc. Finally, Monte appears to be incapacitated.*
Belf: Wh- what was that all about?!
Nelin: We heard your plot. You're out of the clan, kid. We want no part of this dirty shit.
Belf: What?!
Francheska: Yeah, get out and stay out.
Belf: B-but I started this clan!
Pauline: Wrong! Me an' Ravel started the clan, with Montblanc and the rest. Yeah, that's right, Montblanc. Remember? The guy you left to die in Dorsa?!
Belf: Look, this is all a big mistake-
Pallanza: Sure, kid, and you made it. Get out. And stay out.
Belf: ... F-fine. I'll make my own clan! Just you wait! And then you'll see!
*Higgins grabs the door and slams it shut behind the group as they leave for effect. There are tears in Belf's eyes.*
Belf: ALL OF YOU!!!
*Eldena awakens at last*
Eldena: Huh...? What happened?
Belf: EVEN YOU!!!!!
Eldena: Christ, kid, you wonder why none of us like you?

[Grace]

Someone tell me how Green Poet's terrible forced case and lousy logic is any different than her normal town behavior - the sort of behavior I tunneled her for over the course of the entire game as scum in Almost OC.

just because it has happened as town in one or more games does not preclude it necessarily from happening in one's scumgame.

i don't think it's completely reasonable to say "oh, this is normal" and let people get away with stuff that they shouldn't be

sb should also take note

[charlie_]

It also doesn't mean that we should ignore it and shoot ourselves in the foot should we be wrong.

[eclipse]

Wow I suck at spelling.

GP seems to be trying too hard to read into everything

[Grace]

sb you seem really sure that gp isn't scum. almost too sure (like... you're a scumlord)

your votepost seemed off, and now it's starting to make itself into words

[Refa]

refa: it may not have been obvious, but the posts before that show that i did not like GP's thought processes and case pushing implicitly

also do you have any other real opinions other than "prims' ed1 was forced" and maybe a little bit for GP.

No, I don't. If I had actual scumreads, I wouldn't be making freaking prod votes.

@refa: actually better yet; why did you vote SB instead of pursuing anything over that potential Prims read?

Because SB was on and Prims wasn't.

Man, I forgot what it was like waking up to like 5 pages overnight, thanks Manix. I think we should play with NOC TOWN LEADER as soon as we get a clear too.

SUPERHATED is probably our Doctor and it's just making it much easier for us to lynch it, so BBM is probably town. So is Manix for his claim and general playstyle.

I'm not sure that confident that GP is scum, honestly. A lot of her pushes seem based on kinda sketchy logic, but it that isn't really much of a tell for her and I'm not so sure she'd be this loud while fighting a losing battle as scum, rather than backing off a bit or asking buddies for help with what to say.

Don't really like Refa's posts, they amount to a couple of questions after quotes and the only thing he really pursues in that post is from RVS which is kinda eh too, and his jokevote on me almost feels like he's trying to hide his lack of opinions.

##Vote: Refa

My reads all feel really weak considering the amount of words that happened tbh.

It's rather hypocritical of you to call me out on my lack of opinions when you only have one scumread yourself (and why say "my reads all feel really weak" when that's inherent for ED1). Also you're way too quick to clear BBM and Manix which is suspect (I don't see town!SB being so trusting, see: voting his Mason Buddy in Healer). My vote's staying where it is, fite me IRL.

plus when has refa ever been town, and i'm -20% cooler than him anyway

Fixed.

[Grace]

No, I don't. If I had actual scumreads, I wouldn't be making freaking prod votes.

even though you noted that prims' ED1 was forced? what was the point of even saying that then?

[Refa]

Will reply to the posts I got cut by when I get my charger.

[Prims]

GP's claim isn't a scumclaim either.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

I had no expectations for the message, it was just for fun and if I could glean something from the results then all the better. You asking questions but not pursuing anything looks terrible, especially since I don't see your questions to me, Manix or GP leading anywhere when you don't have real opinions on any of us. Why was a SB prodvote better than putting your money where your mouth was and voting one of the people you questioned as pressure?

I'm willing to vote FFM for tagging along without doing anything too since he's evidently reading closely enough to ask for clarification.

eclipse: why point out the worst things Manix and I did if you don't actually find them scummy?

Euklyd: is Refa's SB vote a "scummy-weird"? What bugs you about it in particular? I think you're looking at everything on a surface level instead of trying to be inquisitive. I don't like how frequently your post states one thing only for you to say you just don't know.

[Grace]

okay so

i don't like refa either, nor do i particularly like sb

[spoiler=meta]refa seems really demotivated in tone, makes me think he's scum once more because he's getting tired of rolling it

GP > refa > SB

[charlie_]

sb you seem really sure that gp isn't scum. almost too sure (like... you're a scumlord)

your votepost seemed off, and now it's starting to make itself into words

When a person is getting wagoned for reasons I think are null, I'm going to yell about it.

It's rather hypocritical of you to call me out on my lack of opinions when you only have one scumread yourself (and why say "my reads all feel really weak" when that's inherent for ED1). Also you're way too quick to clear BBM and Manix which is suspect (I don't see town!SB being so trusting, see: voting his Mason Buddy in Healer). My vote's staying where it is, fite me IRL.

If I have reason to think someone is town, I clear them super quickly. And I didn't know you were my mason buddy in healer, so how is that similar?

[Prims]

what's wrong with sb

also thoughts on gp's claim? I can't see scum coming up with a role like that early on without there being a precedent for it and it's a horrible fakeclaim for a mod to give. why is she a better lynch than refa?

[Grace]

also yes i did see GP's claim. i'm still thinking about it (mostly bc i don't think elie is usually on at the time GP said questions were answered? don't quote me on that)

eh. i can kind of see it. i'll concede for now

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

refa > sb > GP

[FrostyFireMage]

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

I'm beginning to think the exchange between Manix/Prims might be busing. Manix claiming part of his role may be an attempt to appear to be the most townie out of the two. Once GP got involved, they perhaps thought they could get her lynched.

Manix was the one who started the vote between the two so that's where my vote goes.

Also the whole "Refa is being half-assed because he keeps on rolling scum" meta sounds like grasping for straws.

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

I'm beginning to think the exchange between Manix/Prims might be busing. Manix claiming part of his role may be an attempt to appear to be the most townie out of the two. Once GP got involved, they perhaps thought they could get her lynched.

Manix was the one who started the vote between the two so that's where my vote goes.

Also the whole "Refa is being half-assed because he keeps on rolling scum" meta sounds like grasping for straws.

wtf

[eclipse]

eclipse: why point out the worst things Manix and I did if you don't actually find them scummy?

To illustrate why I didn't think either of you were worth a vote.