Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia [Game Over]

[Grace]

prims: sb is super insistent that GP is not-scum for reasons outside of the claim. when ~meta~ makes me think that SB wouldn't let that sort of stuff go so easily

also tone. it feels too passive.

[Prims]

FFM neither Manix and I have flipped scum yet so bussing theories are irrelevant. Why are either of us scum independently?

that's fair @Manix but I still don't scumread SB. From my experience SB is actually more assertive as scum because he doesn't have a thought-process to second guess.

[Grace]

lmao ffm

like i've said to GP, there is ~zero~ context consideration in your case. go quote and back up ~everything~ you just said

[eclipse]

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

I'm beginning to think the exchange between Manix/Prims might be busing. Manix claiming part of his role may be an attempt to appear to be the most townie out of the two. Once GP got involved, they perhaps thought they could get her lynched.

Manix was the one who started the vote between the two so that's where my vote goes.

Also the whole "Refa is being half-assed because he keeps on rolling scum" meta sounds like grasping for straws.

1. What gave you the impression that it's bussing? I'm more interested in the path to your conclusion rather than your conclusion.

2. What do you think about the other cases on Refa?

[eclipse]

Prims and Manix, get out of my head.

[charlie_]

Why would Prims and Manix arrange to bus eachother ED1 with no suspicion on either of them?

My passive tone comes from the fact I feel like most of the people who've been posting are town (you, BBM, eclipse) or null (Prims, GP) so I don't have any reason to be more aggressive at this point.

[Grace]

ffm: go read refa's posts. what do you get from them? what is your actual read on refa?

also why do you take issue with my refa vote when multiple others have too?

[Grace]

*have voted refa too

words

[Prims]

actually can I just take a second to say that I think tone is incredibly stupid as a tell in forum mafia because a) it's the internet b) it can be affected by outside factors c) peoples' outlooks will change from game-to-game

I've read people a certain way because of "tone" before and I'm pretty sure it's always been wrong so lol.

[FrostyFireMage]

FFM neither Manix and I have flipped scum yet so bussing theories are irrelevant. Why are either of us scum independently?

that's fair @Manix but I still don't scumread SB. From my experience SB is actually more assertive as scum because he doesn't have a thought-process to second guess.

you two seemed like you were trying to draw attention so that if one of you got lynched the other would look more like an asset to town

manix voted you for what looked like a joke post which looks kinda dicey

and what's the likelihood that Refa would roll scum again? I want to give him the benefit of a doubt for now, especially since it looks like there's a wagon forming

I also know enough about town GP that I know she has a tendency to get wrapped up in details and appear scummy as a result

[Prims]

you two seemed like you were trying to draw attention so that if one of you got lynched the other would look more like an asset to town

but this presumes we're scum in the first place. why are we scum in the first place? I could argue the exact same thing about SB and Refa but it would have no basis in reality beyond "they're two unknowns and they're voting each other".

[Grace]

ffm: go read refa's posts. what do you get from them? what is your actual read on refa?

"benefit of the doubt" is a waffly response. i want a decisive answer

[charlie_]

That still looks like an "if they were bussing" scenario rather than WHY they would be bussing. And Refa has the same odds of rolling scum as anyone else this game, no matter how many other scumgames he's had recently. Eli may also have rigged scum!Refa because he hates him or something too, so there's that.

[eclipse]

and what's the likelihood that Refa would roll scum again? I want to give him the benefit of a doubt for now, especially since it looks like there's a wagon forming

There's two things wrong with this.

1. Unless the host intentionally rigged it, the odds of anyone rolling anything are based on the RNG.

2. It's not impossible for someone to roll scum for a very long time (see me/BBM in the not-too-distant past).

In terms of content in this game, what is your read on Refa?

[FrostyFireMage]

apart from a prod vote Refa doesn't look too scummy

and it also seems that everyone is voting him because of luck-based meta which I'm not a fan of

[Grace]

apart from a prod vote Refa doesn't look too scummy

and why is this?

[charlie_]

and it also seems that everyone is voting him because of luck-based meta which I'm not a fan of

Um, what? I have no idea what you mean by this, and if you dislike the Refa votes why have you not tried to address them at all rather than just saying "I'm not a fan of them"?

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

This is like kirsche in Masq imo.

[Prims]

...

My vote on Refa has nothing to do with that. eclipse's vote on Refa has nothing to do with that. SB's doesn't either. Manix has a side point sort of like that but it's not the crux of his case. You're 0/4.

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

Clearly not paying attention to the game. Refa and FFM both need to die at this point, probably Euklyd too.

[FrostyFireMage]

In retrospect Refa does seem pretty agitated but I'd like to see his next few posts before I declare him to be scum.

[eclipse]

In retrospect Refa does seem pretty agitated but I'd like to see his next few posts before I declare him to be scum.

That was a fast turnaround. ;/

However, I see Refa online, so he can respond to stuff. Don't like the fact that FFM isn't giving me answers to my questions other that "what's your read on Refa". They're important, darnit!

[Refa]

Refa says stuff about Prims/Manix. . .and doesn't bother stating a read. This weirds me out slightly more than FFM because dodging stuff is Refa's scumtell.

That was because at the time, Prims was a nullread and Manix was a town read based solely on rolespec (BBM still falls into this category). How am I dodging content?

It also doesn't mean that we should ignore it and shoot ourselves in the foot should we be wrong.

Why would Prims and Manix arrange to bus eachother ED1 with no suspicion on either of them?

My passive tone comes from the fact I feel like most of the people who've been posting are town (you, BBM, eclipse) or null (Prims, GP) so I don't have any reason to be more aggressive at this point.

This defense does not match up with GP being a null read. Considering you yourself stated your reads to be weak, it bothers me that you're so sure that town is shooting themselves in the foot by voting your null read.

even though you noted that prims' ED1 was forced? what was the point of even saying that then?

To get a response that would help my read on him.

[spoiler=meta]refa seems really demotivated in tone, makes me think he's scum once more because he's getting tired of rolling it

If I was demotivated, I could have not posted at all and gotten less shit for it.

[charlie_]

This defense does not match up with GP being a null read. Considering you yourself stated your reads to be weak, it bothers me that you're so sure that town is shooting themselves in the foot by voting your null read.

If GP IS town, then we're definitely shooting ourselves in the foot. Considering the two most vocal players in the game were both attacking them at the time, I figured it was worth it to say something about it.

To get a response that would help my read on him.

So why have you ignored the response once it was given?

[Refa]

GP's claim isn't a scumclaim either.

##Unvote
##Vote: Refa

You asking questions but not pursuing anything looks terrible, especially since I don't see your questions to me, Manix or GP leading anywhere when you don't have real opinions on any of us. Why was a SB prodvote better than putting your money where your mouth was and voting one of the people you questioned as pressure?

Because SB was on and Prims wasn't.

My questions towards you and GP were supposed help me sway my null reads one way or the other. While I was townreading Manix, his early vote seemed off to me and honestly I can see him claiming that role as scum (even though I think it's less likely that that's the case, see my past posts).

If I have reason to think someone is town, I clear them super quickly. And I didn't know you were my mason buddy in healer, so how is that similar?

I thought GP was a null read.

...

My vote on Refa has nothing to do with that. eclipse's vote on Refa has nothing to do with that. SB's doesn't either. Manix has a side point sort of like that but it's not the crux of his case. You're 0/4.

##Unvote
##Vote: FFM

Clearly not paying attention to the game. Refa and FFM both need to die at this point, probably Euklyd too.

You're two votes off there.

If you really felt that way, you should've left your vote on me considering I was at L-2. Maybe some idiot mayor would've quickhammered me.

[Refa]

Ugh, that last response to SB was dumb. Ignore that.

[FrostyFireMage]

Bearclaw, Poly, Terrador, Shinori, Kirsche and Eury have barely posted if at all, so there's precious little to go on for them.

GP I've covered and BBM/Euk/Clipsey haven't done anything overtly scummy that requires mention.

I'm town, so that leaves Refa, Manix, Prims and SB. Prims' reason for voting Manix - "He's high-profile and posts a lot and likely to actually say something." - is a pretty flimsy reason, but it's so flimsy that it sounds like a joke. It feels like Manix voted him in retaliation and then jumped on the chance to vote GP afterwards in a possible attempt to avoid attention. If only one of them is scum I feel like it's more likely to be Manix.

Still waiting for more from Refa. Keeping his vote on SB after SB voted him feels a lot like OMGUS (on both sides, actually) and it feels like he's under pressure. SB is suspicious for the OMGUS-seeming response to Refa's vote.