SFMafia's Greatest Hits - Day 6

[Elieson]

I'm not harmful. That's literally all I'm allowed to tell you.

I had to check with mods before to even see if I could respond with that. As I wasn't sure if I could even say that.

People should be able to tell who I am though.

So you _are_ third party, but didn't want to roll with it, meaning you still had something to hide

Are you;

JB

or

WeakWatcherSurvivor

There's also no proof that he's not hostile fwiw @Gaius. 1 night with no 2nd kill isn't exactly conclusive evidence

[Shinori]

I'm not harmful.

[charlie_]

(3) Bluedoom: Elieson, Gorf, King Gilgamesh
(3) King Gilgamesh: eclipse, Prims, Omega
(1) Shinori: Weapons
(1) Hannah: J
(1) J: Lord Gaius
(4) Not Voting: BBM, Bluedoom, Hannah, Shinori

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Shinori's birthday ends in 24 hours.

[ZoesMad]

Elie just saying its a possibility. I think N2 will give us more info and we should let nori live at least one more phase. This also proves weapon's role.

[Hannah]

Something to do with Shinori's birthday... Do any of you know any flavour when Shinori (or someone) was third party on their birthday or some flavour like that?

(fwiw?)

There is no proof, but I'm pretty sure he's not killing, I don't think he'd claim third p as a third p.

[BBM]

Shinori is pretty obviously JB; to anybody not familiar with SF Mafia injokes, the joke is that it's JB's 8th birthday every day.

someone asked my thoughts on some people

Prims - leaning town because lurkscum Prims lurks more deliberately and thoughtfully and doesn't bother giving as many excuses for not being active.

J - no particular thoughts currently; will get back to him later

Hannah - leaning town on gut but it's a pretty weak read.

zero/Marth - as I said earlier I think his play read newbtown to me; there's no reason newbscum would be so aggressive. Subject to change when I reread his posts but it probably won't.

now I'm going to read stuff about the zero wagon like I said I would. I'll maybe also read what Eclipse said about finding Mancer suspicious.

[Prims]

i mean i'm town but i've only given like one excuse BBM and it's one that would affect me regardless of alignment so what's up with that meta read

tbh i kind of don't care or want to play this game right now, similar to that touhou cyor i played on mafiascum

wait shit that isnt helping my case

[BBM]

oh yeah wrt Shinori I'm going to reread him but before I forget - I dislike that he went from "NO I'M TOWN AND WEAPONS IS SCUM" to "ok guys I actually am 3rd party but I'm not harmful I swear". I'm not entirely sure that SB would put a restriction on claiming ITP or a restriction that would even imply that you couldn't claim ITP. Regardless, if that was the case, why would he vote Weapons for lying? The more legit thing to do while waiting to check whether or not he could claim ITP (something that shouldn't have taken nearly 48 hours) would have been to say something about how there must have been a mistake, not try to lynch Weapons. Even if Shinori is harmless ITP as he claims, that way of handling things was pretty anti-town.

@prims- are you sure you haven't given more excuses? SHRUG I'm allowed to have half-baked opinions right after subbing in.

[Prims]

though honestly me lurking = me being scum is dumb anyway since a) i will lurk tactically as town to avoid contributing to noise b) there are lots of games where i've been lazy/inactive as town ppl just don't talk about those

although i guess when i'm lazytown i also shitpost

like right now

old habits die hard

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

"I'm not allowed to tell you things in a non-bastard game"

lol?

I never read zerosabers but I read Gorf's case and it's a nice looking case but like... i don't feel it. i don't think zerosabers is scum. i expect newbscum play to be like gilgamesh's, more evasive and calculated. zerosabers reads more like newbtown who got in a scuffle with another newbtown because both were inexperienced.

really we should lynch shinori then vig gilgamesh tonight. letting caught ITPs live never works out

[Prims]

@prims thoughts on j?

y did you ask me this when my last post in the thread was my opinions on J

I'm townreading him, my only problem is that I hate people going "I'm not going to comment on Weapons/Shinori" because outed ITP is a sticky situation for scum (they want the ITP gone but don't want to look like they're hunting ITP over scum) and dismissing the situation means there's less to hang you on later in the game. it's an important factor in today

but other people have done this shit too I think, I've really only skimmed the last few pages. BASICALLY everybody should explain their thoughts on Weapons/Shinori and tell me why they're not lynching Shinori at this point. seriously if Shinori flips town then that's literally two caught scum in Weapons/Gilgamesh. does anybody seriously not think he's ITP?

[Prims]

btw weapons I actually don't think you're scum anymore you should come back and play the game.

[Hannah]

Shinori is pretty obviously JB; to anybody not familiar with SF Mafia injokes, the joke is that it's JB's 8th birthday every day.

What is "JB"

[Prims]

JBCWK is a retired mafia player. it's his birthday today so you should go PM him telling him happy birthday

[BBM]

eclipse; the only thing I can possibly see in your first D2 post that could explain a possible Mancer suspicion is your action failing on N1. I don't have a role capable of making other people's roles fail in any way (quite the opposite # HEAVY CRUMBING THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO MISINTERPRET)

reread zero; still think he's town. Marth's entry post was good too, although that doesn't mean much since having a good entry post is easy for scum too

gorf's case on zero is okay but I just don't agree with it. It's not taking the context of her being new into account, and yeah zero's vote was premature but again why would newbscum want to be so aggressive so early? It's like looking at the trees but missing the forest. I don't like how he says "yeah obviously Shinori is ITP" but then doesn't bother giving opinions on whether he thinks Shinori is harmful or harmless. He says it doesn't matter bc Shinori isn't getting lynched today. Why not?

I'd like gorf to talk about J more and reread him since he thinks that J being painfully null is concerning. gorf is probably town though since I feel like he would just be coasting on the zero case as scum (ngl I originally started casing gorf for coasting after the zero case and then realized I was wrong RIP)

wow this sucks I was all GONNA ANALYZE THE ZERO WAGON and then I realized it was made of Gorf, a dead dude, and my previous self. time to sheep Prims

##Vote: Shinori

Shinori, is Gorf still scum? Your D2 play has been yelling at people (particularly Weapons), which isn't scummy by itself but is suspicious considering that's all your D2 play is.

@hannah- JB is a mafia player. His current name is something else icr (Shatter?)

also re-repeating what others have said and asking the HBCers to stop calling Shinori Shin. Shin is the name of another mafia player and it's confusing even if he's not in the game.

[Shinori]

I'm used to people calling me shin though everywhere else. IF THEY WANNA CALL ME SHIN THEY CAN.

[Prims]

uhhhh BBM you do realize you're sheeping me on a policy vote for who might as well be caught ITP right? who are the mafia members?

[Hannah]

Ok so, are we going to believe that Shinori is harmless, or just lynch him anyway?

[BBM]

eclipse's point about gilgamesh having targeted Weapons and then not voting Shinori is legit but I don't get what he gains from lying about his role?

I also think Gilgamesh may have townslipped sort of;

Gilgamesh, what is your flavour? What player and what mafia game is identified in your role PM? (Nobody else attempt to answer this)

we should lynch Shinori today anyways

[BBM]

uhhhh BBM you do realize you're sheeping me on a policy vote for who might as well be caught ITP right? who are the mafia members?

I don't see it as a policy vote; I think that Shinori is most likely a harmful ITP #itphunting

as for who are the mafia members... TIME TO FALL BACK ON THE OLD STANDARD OF POEING ON D2

[Donald Trump]

##unvote

no preference for which one dies but yea down for either gilgamesh or shinori

also gonna be gone for the next 6-7 hours chillin wit homies and watching the new dbz movie so dont expect shit till THE EARLIEST later tonight

[Eurykins]

I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

eury as far as I can tell there's no posting restriction requiring you to start and end your posts with I AM A ZOMBIE TREE STUMP so don't do it in future games where you may find yourself Stumped. If anyone isn't paying attention enough to know that then it's probably a townslip except not anymore in this game since I talked about it.

For one, I never said it was a post restriction that occurred via role- it was my own choice, and was a joke that was shared with J's notion earlier in the thread. Nothing more, nothing less (and at the same token, it basically highlights the fact that I cannot vote, so I'm basically just here to dawdle and spew out random shizz. Blame the scum team/killing source for that. ).

Secondly, the latter part could be easily faked, so whether someone knows about it or not is pretty irrelevant/non-alignment indicative IMO. Not every scum member pays attention to how/what people end up flipping, so they too are liable for overlooking matters such as that.

(And by the very fact that I'm still posting, it's kinda obvious even without my tags. So whether I use them or not is kinda irrelevant as a whole.)

It seems that I am the likely lynch tonight, but oh well I don't have the time to fight it.

Listen everyone, I have a confession to make. Using my role I was able to do a voyeur on Weapons because I did not believe his claim that he didn't get a role PM and my results were right, he used an ability to determine that someone was a third party. I was going to call out weapons, but to my surprise he claimed his role and the whole "Not getting a PM" was brought up by Eclipse so I believe him. Shinori is a third party of some kind 100%. I swear this on my life. His denial only proves that it is a role harmful to the town and he must be pursued.

Well my break is almost over and I most likely will be back after the deadline.

All I'll say to this is that, like the Eclipse post below, I don't believe this claim at all. Moreso, I find it's an attempt to not only avoid his own lynch, but possibly save weapons from the former 1v1 that was occurring since early D2 with this whole third party shizz.

> Whether Shinori has confirmed or not the scan in terms of being a third party bears little to nothing on the fact that Gilgamesh's notions (in terms of role claims/what he did and what he learned N1) do not match up correctly.

Would lynch KG for this alone, due to the sketchiness of the claim/attempting to condemn someone by that matter.

Lol, it was comical. I felt bad when Eury apologized after, but I wasn't 100% serious.

No need to feel bad~ :)

oh yeah wrt Shinori I'm going to reread him but before I forget - I dislike that he went from "NO I'M TOWN AND WEAPONS IS SCUM" to "ok guys I actually am 3rd party but I'm not harmful I swear". I'm not entirely sure that SB would put a restriction on claiming ITP or a restriction that would even imply that you couldn't claim ITP. Regardless, if that was the case, why would he vote Weapons for lying? The more legit thing to do while waiting to check whether or not he could claim ITP (something that shouldn't have taken nearly 48 hours) would have been to say something about how there must have been a mistake, not try to lynch Weapons. Even if Shinori is harmless ITP as he claims, that way of handling things was pretty anti-town.

@prims- are you sure you haven't given more excuses? SHRUG I'm allowed to have half-baked opinions right after subbing in.

1. So are you saying that, had you been ITP and been accused/told you scanned up as one, you would outwardly admit to being one? Because I don't see why Shinori wouldn't deny the claim in itself, given the nature of how Weapons chose to pursue him ED2. Whether he is or not by this point doesn't make his prior response seem any worse IMO.

2. The fact that Shinori has been included in most of the flavor by the Host does leave wiggle room in terms of possible role/claim(s). I don't see the issue with him possibly harboring a mechanic that really cannot or otherwise shouldn't be revealed to the rest of us, especially if it is something he needs to avoid (IE. A specific person/scum smacking him with something?).

Look at Terrador when he rolled Miller in Dot.hack//The World: R1 Mafia- the moment (I think it was Bluedoom) "miller" was claimed as part of his role, the scum team took the shot banking on it being the person we (the scum team) needed to find to fulfill said shot/kill (as we were noted that a "traitor" was amongst the player list, and one of our scum team had a killing shot that was specially designed for that player alone). Which basically fed us more momentum/means of running down town-side. Perhaps there is something in Shinori's role that is likewise dangerous to out in any sort of circumstances?

Granted, I know my history of tunneling ITP's pretty damn hard, and I know they're liable to lying about whether they're harmful or not. However, at this point, in terms of gauging Shinori's reactions, how Weapons (and KG at this point) have chosen to react towards him, and the lack of 2+ NK's in N1, I'm willing to give Shinori some wiggle room and would prefer to aim moreso on Weapons/KG over him.

> Well, I would, if I could vote and/or have any sort of realistic influence over who lives/dies this day phase. :/

##Unvote
##Vote: Shinori
"I'm not allowed to tell you things in a non-bastard game"

lol?

I never read zerosabers but I read Gorf's case and it's a nice looking case but like... i don't feel it. i don't think zerosabers is scum. i expect newbscum play to be like gilgamesh's, more evasive and calculated. zerosabers reads more like newbtown who got in a scuffle with another newbtown because both were inexperienced.

really we should lynch shinori then vig gilgamesh tonight. letting caught ITPs live never works out

There have been roles before in which information can/will be restricted as per directed by role PMs- why is it hard to believe that he cannot/will not say, especially since him not saying anything is painting him in a worse light than if he had said anything? Do you think Shinori, as a fairly experienced Mafia player (he's had more than enough games to know when/how to do things) would risk looking bad if he could easily just claim stuff to get people off his case/back/wagon?

Also, why vig KG over Weapons? Just because weapons may have scanned/found Shinori as the ITP doesn't mean Weapons is cleared/any better off than KG's bad claim/accusation IMO.

In addition, if N2 happens with Shinori still alive and no other kill sources occur, isn't that enough proof in itself that he wouldn't be harmful?

eclipse; the only thing I can possibly see in your first D2 post that could explain a possible Mancer suspicion is your action failing on N1. I don't have a role capable of making other people's roles fail in any way (quite the opposite # HEAVY CRUMBING THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO MISINTERPRET)

reread zero; still think he's town. Marth's entry post was good too, although that doesn't mean much since having a good entry post is easy for scum too

gorf's case on zero is okay but I just don't agree with it. It's not taking the context of her being new into account, and yeah zero's vote was premature but again why would newbscum want to be so aggressive so early? It's like looking at the trees but missing the forest. I don't like how he says "yeah obviously Shinori is ITP" but then doesn't bother giving opinions on whether he thinks Shinori is harmful or harmless. He says it doesn't matter bc Shinori isn't getting lynched today. Why not?

I'd like gorf to talk about J more and reread him since he thinks that J being painfully null is concerning. gorf is probably town though since I feel like he would just be coasting on the zero case as scum (ngl I originally started casing gorf for coasting after the zero case and then realized I was wrong RIP)

wow this sucks I was all GONNA ANALYZE THE ZERO WAGON and then I realized it was made of Gorf, a dead dude, and my previous self. time to sheep Prims

##Vote: Shinori

Shinori, is Gorf still scum? Your D2 play has been yelling at people (particularly Weapons), which isn't scummy by itself but is suspicious considering that's all your D2 play is.

@hannah- JB is a mafia player. His current name is something else icr (Shatter?)

also re-repeating what others have said and asking the HBCers to stop calling Shinori Shin. Shin is the name of another mafia player and it's confusing even if he's not in the game.

This post reads kinda bad to me (and the vote on Shinori is pretty easy as well). Reads don't seem terribly impressive, and blatant sheeping instead of producing more reads/thoughts on your own reads as your posting style/effort slacking (even if you are recently subbed in, there's no reason to drop such an easy vote when plenty of pressure has already been on the Shinori slot since D2).

I'm a Zombie-Treestump.

[BBM]

@eury- I don't think I buy Shinori claiming he couldn't claim ITP, but that's not the point. Let's assume he does have a restriction and couldn't claim ITP. Why would he structure his entire response to Weapons in the form of a blatant lie that attempted to get Weapons lynched? He had no suspicion of Weapons prior to Weapons' report, yet he tried to get someone who truthfully relayed an investigative report lynched. This is anti-town behaviour and reeks of self-preservation. You'll say "but he's ITP; he has to be self-preserving even if he's harmless" and while that's correct, there are many different ways to do that which doesn't require getting Weapons lynched. Shinori's actions read like backpedalling- consider that Shinori deciding to admit he was ITP happened in his first post (not counting "I'm confused give me a minute") after Gilgamesh's claim backing up Weapons. I don't think that's a coincidence.

And you're right, Shinori is pretty experienced. Consider that prior to Gilgamesh's claim (something Shinori couldn't have foreseen) and then Shinori's ensuing claim, Shinori was in basically the ideal situation given he got inspected, where people were willing to leave him in a limbo state (Prims, Gorf).

It also kind of sucks for me that Shinori is ITP because I think I'd probably be voting him regardless. Consider that his only content in the game is to call out Gorf for spamming and shitposting a lot. This is true but you can't just classify posts as shitposts and not-shitposts; you also have to look at what he actually says in the non-shitposts. This is a super easy way of looking like you're being productive while not really getting into it. And besides, plenty of people have spammy posting styles; Gorf's style is basically a more slangy version of Manix's style (back before he just started tunneling me every game).

It means I have to put more effort into telling you WHO IS MAFIA but my laptop's running out of battery so uh you're all going to have to wait for a few hours until class finishes and I get home and dodge your questions by telling you WHO IS TOWN instead

[BBM]

oh I actually do have a mafia-read- Omega.

He generally tends to have a spammy style but he normally explains his thought process more. His play this game is just a lot of weak suspicions and reads that he gives little to no justification for and barely bothers pursuing directly. He asks questions every now and then but rarely follows up.

Post #145 has a vote on Dan and then FoSes on Weapons, Mancer, and Gilgamesh. But he says nothing about any of those people. He even re-affirms that he just wants to lynch Dan in #190 despite still having given no justification. Also asks Eury about Eclipse (never mentions either again) and Gorf about zero/hannah (doesn't talk to or about Gorf again and just asks more people questions about zero/hannah). He asks J and I to speak about those two for example but I have no idea why because he hasn't said anything about them himself.

#253 with the Weapons vote has an okay reason for Weapons being scum but doesn't say why he's worse than Dandra or what happened to the Dandra suspicion. Has some prods towards J and Prims.

Then in #278, his first D2 post, he doesn't again say why Gilgamesh is scummy. More questions about Prims but I don't know whether he legit thinks Prims is scum.

I could keep going, but the gist is plain- why are so few of the people he votes or FoSes the target or subject of his questions? There's a few cases where he directly questions them, like Shinori in #382, but even then, a lot of his questions are about what they think about other people and not about their own content And if that's the case what are his gleanings from what people answer? The only person he seems to be actively and continuously questioning is J but he's never voting or even FoSing J at any point. I don't get why he's voting Gilgamesh when he espoused earlier that he wanted to lynch Shinori to get rid of ITP nonsense. The Gilgamesh vote isn't applying any pressure because there's no reasoning and plenty of other votes anyways.

So... his vote isn't being used to pressure someone and it isn't being used to vote for the person he wants to lynch most, and the fact that he's barely given any reasoning for reads make it super easy for him to votehop (exactly what he's doing).

should still lynch confirmed ITP and likely anti-town slot SHINORI today. rolespec question for eury and others; why does town have an itp checker to catch a harmless ITP? I don't remember SB having red herrings like that in any game other than Conspiracy, which was bastard.

[BBM]

another reason I'm feeling like Omega is scum is PoE btw.

Elie - lot of content and posts that are relevant and frequent while maintaining a non-snark attitude? town probably.

Eclipse - scum Eclipse looks for bad play as opposed to scummy play a lot, and focuses on gameplay style in her votes, for example Masquerade. I also think she tends to blend in more. Her play this game is rather open. Town.

Gaius - His activity and motivation seem especially obvtown when you consider he's been scum the past 5000 games and active lurked and just made a few posts a day in all of them. I call it the Refactor method of townreading.

Combine with Prims/Gorf/zeroMarth townreads and Shinori ITPread and it leaves a likely 3 scum between Hannah, J, Gilgamesh, Omega, and Weapons.

I'm going to stick with the gut townread on Hannah for now since I haven't reread her yet and go with a scumteam of J, Omega, and Gilg/Weapons. J + Omega make sense as buddies (need to reread J too). Not sure about Omega + Gilg/Weapons as buddies but I'll see when I reread Weapons.

Plan is to reread Hannah and J tomorrow morning; pretty tired atm.