Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Sunwoo]

@Xinnidy: I can see your point about Marth, and it bugs me that he still doesn't really have anything to say about a lot of stuff that went on yesterday. I don't like that I had to prod him to actually give an opinion on the things he summarized and he still managed to avoid really talking about the Baldrick wagon although he talked about some people on it. Also, Marth, why is Strider worse than any of the other people you listed? Complains about lacking content and tells me that I'm lacking content, and that Fera is the same.

Also, do you still find Objection scummy? You were voting him for a good part of the previous phase.

[ZemZem]

*from my last post* I admit I only voted for Baldrick because that's what everyone else was doing (yay bandwagoning, but I really did find his post a bit odd at the time), and I admit that wasn't the best move due to the result that happened.

I just wish I wasn't so...confused at everything going on. :/

Edited June 14, 2013 by Zeem

[Violet_Rain3]

Blitz: I'm pretty sure most of the reasons for voting you have been said, but something really ticks me off about your last post, the passive-aggressive one.

I have no reads on Baldric btw, and also @Marth and whoever else finds me suspicious, why don't you build a case on me, or are you gusy too afraid to do so?

First off, it's hard to believe you had absolutely no reads on Baldrick, the leading wagon. You could have said he strikes me as town/scum and explain why. There were plenty of people on the wagon and quite a few reasons why they voted him, so it's hard to believe you had absolutely no opinion on any of these things.

Secondly, the taunting. It's implying that you don't care about dying, and you are just begging for people to lynch you. But why? Why did you post that? Do you have some kind of ability? What would make you not care about dying, or even being mislynched? I don't know.

I'm fine with changing my vote over to Blitz later, if needed.

[Violet_Rain3]

Zeem, you are not allowed to edit posts.

[ZemZem]

Zeem, you are not allowed to edit posts.

Oh, my mistake. It was just a grammatical error I fixed, and I forgot about the rule.

[Violet_Rain3]

Zeem: You know, I'm kinda surprised. You've played mafia at Fanfiction right? I know all the updates are during the day, but I honestly expected you to post more, especially if you play it 'all the time'. (Although I am a bit curious, what's your pen name?) Even on Fanfiction you will be suspected of if you don't post too much. (I almost got lynched on a game there because of that, even though I was town) I know this is your first mafia game on SF, but I would have expected you to be more involved due to experience. Even though mafia is played a little differently here, it's still mafia.

[Xinnidy]

@Xinnidy: I can see your point about Marth, and it bugs me that he still doesn't really have anything to say about a lot of stuff that went on yesterday. I don't like that I had to prod him to actually give an opinion on the things he summarized and he still managed to avoid really talking about the Baldrick wagon although he talked about some people on it. Also, Marth, why is Strider worse than any of the other people you listed? Complains about lacking content and tells me that I'm lacking content, and that Fera is the same.

Also, do you still find Objection scummy? You were voting him for a good part of the previous phase.

After a phase ends and you get time to read the thread from beginning to end, there's substantially less of him to go around than others.

Handwaving Blitz's trap as Blitz being Blitz is a pretty lazy way out of it especially when I'm sure you're not even familiar with Blitz meta to begin with, someone's going with the flow. Granted, I don't know if he plays mafia in other places. He hasn't really come back with concrete reads from there and was voting Zeem for the baldrick wagon while giving others noncommittal remarks whilst waiting for a reply (where I foresee he'll unvote ZM and vote someone else >_>). The predictability and unremarkable commitment are there, but I feel I have other stuff I could be pressing instead. If my reading isn't absolute failure, I think someone has just voted with similar reasons against him, so there's waiting for him to come back from his mentioned trip, or seeing how the more likely reactive pushes turn out first.

[Paperblade]

Who the heck is Objection anyway

[Kriemhild]

With 24 people in the game, it's hard to keep track of who says what. I don't know how you guys are doing, but I'm finding it impossible to follow the game by reading through the thread. So I'm just gonna rely on some of these ISOs to try interpret what's going on.

Paperblade: I mentioned this earlier, but he seems very Townish to me. His posts go straight to the point without the fluff and I agree with most of his reasoning. I disagree with his attack on Shinori, because I think it's perfectly normal for players to come in late and vote for Baldrick only after he's been thoroughly attacked. They could be opportunistic scum, but they could also just be Townies voting for their most suspicious target. I also agree with his reasoning on SB

SB: Seems pretty scummy to me now that I read his ISO. Like I said, I agree with Paper's points on SB. He did very little aside from complaining about Kevin's rolespec and Proto's inactivity. I know that Proto's content has been severely lacking, but that's no reason to just keep pursuing him and talk very little about the rest of the game. Proto's not the only player in the game, sheesh, and the world isn't gonna end if he chooses to remain as an unhelpful jerk.

Zeem: No reads. Too inactive. He really needs to post more and provide useful info on his thoughts on more players and stuff. I can see this is his first time, so it makes sense that he's having trouble keeping up.

Shinori: No reads. This is not because of inactivity, but because of Shinori being Shinori. He seems to have been concentrating on NekoRex too much early on. His vote on Baldy may have been an opportunistic scum vote, or it may have been late arrival to the bandwagon. His reasoning on Kevin seems solid.

Kevin: Slightly scummy. He did very little on Day 1 aside from attacking Blues for claiming Ninja with some really crappy (imo) reasoning. He started contributing more from N1 onwards though. I don't find him that scummy anymore now.

Blitzy: Slightly scummy. His initial reaction tests and stuff are very typical of his playstyle, but he didn't really do much afterwards. That post on "why don't you build a case for me?" really does not sound right. However, I'm well aware that Blitzy has legitimate obstacles to activity (doesn't have internet in his home, country situation is really bad, uni frequently closed, etc). It's not his fault, and I don't want him lynched before he can get online and contribute properly.

[Zkirsche]

If SB is pretty scummy why don't you vote him?

[Strege]

I would like more people to comment on my SB case since I feel like only 1-2 people have

I think it's alright but misreps SB a decent amount with regard to his vote on Proto -- it isn't just for inactivity, but also for the emptiness of the content he does produce. With regard to your post-by-post post (post 344) I think points 7 and 15 are quite good, but I don't like point 18 because:

-You choose this opportunity to defend yourself against an argument that I originally presented, which is easier because SB's comment was short and simplified and you had spent a post discrediting him.

-You're comparing yourself with SB for what reason?

-"quantity of scumreads doesn't mean shit" seems like... wrong, in general (unless someone can correct me, it's not the end-all evidence but it is relevant), but also sort of ignores the issue of the quantity of your scumreads versus the quantity of your posts and opinions.

Three ISOs I'd still like to check but I'm completely failing to stay current with the events of D2. I'll try to remedy that when I'm in a better mindset.

[Kriemhild]

Sorry, forgot to vote. The scummiest player to me so far is ##Vote: SB

Would also appreciate it if you guys don't lynch Blitzy until he gets a chance to defend himself.

[Paperblade]

I did admit that his initial vote on Proto was fine but the fact that he spent several posts just complaining that Proto wasn't around instead of trying to do anything else is problematic. If you looked at the posts as I was going over them, the one where he put his initial vote on Proto I said that his post was fine.

I don't think that quantity of scumreads vs. quantity of posts is relevant. There's plenty of reasons people could have only one scumread with a relatively high post count, such as tunneling or not having good reasons. Sometimes it's just people playing bad, sometimes it's because other people are playing bad, and sometimes maybe they're scum. I think you're oversimplifying the issue.

[Prims]

Day 2.3 - Votals

Blitz (6) - scorri, Shinori, Boron, Manix, BT, Xinnidy

Kay (2) - BBM, Strege

Serious Bananas (2) - Paperblade, Proto

Fera (1) - kirsche

Objection!! (1) - Super Serious Gal

Reinfleche (1) - Bluedoom

Shinori (1) - NekoRex

Zeem (1) - Objection!!

Not Voting (7): Blitz, Fera, Kay, Reinfleche, Serious Bananas, Stahlypin, Zeem

With 22 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch and 12 to hammer. You have 30 hours left in the day.

[BBM]

@Strege- Kay is infamous for being inactive on weekends, probably because that's when she flies over to meet Proto.

I don't really understand why people are picking Zeem out. Yeah, despite being here a lot he's posting stuff that basically amounts to "idk what's going on" but I get the sense that'd be the same regardless of alignment, so I'm basically treating him as another inactive. I wouldn't be opposed to a vigshot on him, but i think a lynch there would be a waste of time, and I feel that people talking about him are just giving an easy read.

That was sort of speaking to Proto and Objection. More in relation to Proto's latest post, in his bit about Paperblade, he basically said that sheeping onto wagons is perfectly reasonable, which is sort of uhhhhh. I also don't really see the point of including the stuff on Zeem and Shinori.

[Paperblade]

I think Objection looks a lot worse than Zeem tbh

[Strege]

I did admit that his initial vote on Proto was fine but the fact that he spent several posts just complaining that Proto wasn't around instead of trying to do anything else is problematic. If you looked at the posts as I was going over them, the one where he put his initial vote on Proto I said that his post was fine.

I don't think that quantity of scumreads vs. quantity of posts is relevant. There's plenty of reasons people could have only one scumread with a relatively high post count, such as tunneling or not having good reasons. Sometimes it's just people playing bad, sometimes it's because other people are playing bad, and sometimes maybe they're scum. I think you're oversimplifying the issue.

SB also made post 276 with some comments on Proto's content, but you ignore that in favour of defending yourself (yeah, point 18 bothers me a fair bit).

You make a fair point about reads, but there's also plenty of scum intent to not committing yourself while appearing active. As a potentially-relevant aside, I don't understand why it's taken so long for you to address this, as it's kind of the basis of SB's and my criticism of you. Have we been unclear or...?

[Strege]

You make a fair point about reads, but there's also plenty of scum intent to not committing yourself while appearing active. As a potentially-relevant aside, I don't understand why it's taken so long for you to address this, as it's kind of the basis of SB's and my criticism of you. Have we been unclear or...?

To clarify, by "address this" I mean "say why you don't think it's scummy", not "change this behaviour".

[Paperblade]

I hate D1 and I hate D1 where most of the game isn't doing anything more. I gave you plenty of other reasons for possible reasons a townie might have few reads and I really think this conversation is ridiculous considering it was like halfway through D1 when you started that. I can't pull scumreads out of thin fucking air and I'm not going to make up BS scumreads that I don't believe in to appease you. I found SB's push on me to be hypocritical considering his only real scumread at the time was Proto because all his other "scumreads" were mentioned once and never pushed because apparently doing nothing is more important.

[Paperblade]

and I didn't address it because it's really a BS case, but you don't seem to want to drop it

[Strege]

and I didn't address it because it's really a BS case, but you don't seem to want to drop it

I didn't drop it because it's not really something that your later behaviour can make less scummy (rather, your later behaviour would have to make you more townie on its own) and because no one addressed it except for SB who agreed with me. I'm a newbie who got lynched as scum *on the first day phase* of the last game, taking half my team down with me, and you were there to see it. If you think something I say is BS, especially when I'm voting you for it, then please point it out.

Regarding actually reading you, I see your perspective on not having a lot of reads and I think I went too hard on it. This makes you look better to me. What do you think of SB's later comments on Proto that you didn't address earlier?

[Strege]

I lied there. Boron and BBM said they didn't get my vote on Paperblade but I thought it sounded like Boron was townreading Paperblade and BBM was criticizing almost everything I said. Eugh. I'm going to reread that stuff.

[Sunwoo]

You don't necessarily have to be "townreading" someone in order to not "get a vote" on them. At the time I had made that post, I didn't understand why you thought Paper was worse than the other person you had mentioned in your post, I think it w

I didn't understand why you thought Paper was more worth voting over Proto and wanted a clarification. As for Paper himself, I couldn't see anything wrong with his play back in D1. As of now, after reading through his ISO, I feel a little less confident on him but for reasons I cannot explain other than "gut", so I'm going to have to make a decision on him later.

[Shinori]

I'm back, and it doesn't look like overall too much happened. Blitz wagon built up pretty fast imo. I think Neko's vote is pretty weak based on the fact that he simply voted based off of day one stuff and it looks slightly like an OMGUS but whatever.

On the top of page 21 but I gotta go to Dungeons and Dragons

Still think Shinori is scum, he was hellbent on me all day when I wasn't actually around, while he could have been looking for other players to get scumreads on, his vote on me looks like an ugly votepark.

Except I did have scum reads on other people and albeit I pushed you most of the day, because I don't think you should have been allowed to get by with just two posts and literally zero reads across the entire day phase, I did state my thoughts on other players that I felt it necessary to comment on. Also I feel your current vote is pretty weak considering you aren't even caught up in day 2 yet it seems.

I'll post on other stuff in a bit.

[Strege]

You don't necessarily have to be "townreading" someone in order to not "get a vote" on them. At the time I had made that post, I didn't understand why you thought Paper was worse than the other person you had mentioned in your post, I think it w

I didn't understand why you thought Paper was more worth voting over Proto and wanted a clarification. As for Paper himself, I couldn't see anything wrong with his play back in D1. As of now, after reading through his ISO, I feel a little less confident on him but for reasons I cannot explain other than "gut", so I'm going to have to make a decision on him later.

I... yeah, I think I misread what you said somehow and I apologize. For the record they were about the same for me at the time but Paperblade being more active just made the vote a lot more productive.