Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Grace]

okay marth i have a question: i know you said that you were bored when you made your summary back during D1, but what purpose did it serve being put in the thread? i'm curious

[BT.]

Next up is scorii. I'm actually feeling overall okay about his ISO despite the vague feelings I got from his posts yesterday.

Now SB. I... think I'll save final judgement for after he comes back. My major gripe at this point should be that his suspicions sum up to "<player>'s content is meh" or other variants of capitalizing on play that looks attack-able. Proto's next on my list though so we'll see.

[ZemZem]

I do know I need to post and contribute more, and I will do so as well as provide my reasons for voting Baldrick to previous day.

Right now, though, I have a driver's test to study for.

[Grace]

@Fera: from this post, i can kinda see why you voted baldrick (i'm a little stumped, but inferring a bit helps), but did voting blitz ever cross your mind, considering you had the start of a potentially solid case going there? would you vote blitz today or someone else altogether?

@Kay: strege vote strikes me as weird, mostly due to a lack of explanation/sourcing, so I'd like some clarification on that when possible, if you would please?

and something else i found of while thinking about the kay wagoneers;

Over my reread

(rest of the post cut because it's not actually too relevant to my point)

basically my problem with this is that BBM looks like he cherry picked one person out of the remaining 21 others alive (obvs not including himself), because that's the only person he's attacked all phase (off memory), considering he made a number of posts after that initial kay post, mostly about the potions. bbm give more scumreads pls or i will follow up further (and probably deathtunnel you again)

[Grace]

or put in more clarity, BBM said he reread yet gave no other opinions on players that i can see right now (please tell me if i'm wrong, cause i'll eat my words if so)

[Grace]

i looked over his iso first and i completely forgot what was in it, wow. but i looked over it again and i'm pretty sure i hit the nail on the head. moving on to the next iso's

[Grace]

@Proto:

So yeah, I strongly disagree with Kevin's reasoning that Blues did something stupid, but that doesn't really make Kevin scummy to me.

Aside from that, still suspicious of Kevin for his strong initial attack on Blues, but he seems to have withdrawn so I guess it's fine now.

I still find it suspicious that this was all he really did, but Baldrick is worse in my eyes.

(bolded mine)

you better start explaining this major discrepancy between your posting cause I'm not happy with what I see here. not happy with the filler post at day2start but i'm one to talk there so.

@NNR:

I'm going to re-skim the last few pages and put a vote down before I nod off, but I'll try to at least have a vote down.

i'd like you to follow up with this during the day phase, and give some other reads if possible. not easy to read a player without content.

[BT.]

I was just about to point that out Manix.

I was also irked by the fact that he was able to reason in out with other people's behavior but the leading wagon's was beyond him. Yes, it's very oh so weird that Baldrick chose to continue pushing the messenger issue, but where's the scum intent?

[BT.]

Because if you actually take the time to think about it scum would gain just as much out of that as town. It was doubtful that BBM himself knew anything useful so fishing for info wouldn't do much good. For a player that seemed to think things through in other occasions, this is a thing.

[Grace]

@Paperboard

Also I reread Blitz's iso and his play is a lot weaker than I thought it was.

can you explain why you think this now? what's the thought process going on

@scorri: anyone else besides blitz that would possibly be voteworthy today?

@SSG: I'd also like some reads (or anything really) from you when you're around.

and on that note I am done with iso's (finally) so I should be well enough equipped to fling around opinions and stuff. questions are posed and i'll address answer when given, etc

##Vote: Blitz

as previously explained. past that proto would be next but after that i'm really not sure right now

[BT.]

I think I'm the other way around after the last few posts (Proto -> Blitz) but I can work with this wagon for now.

##Vote Blitz

As far as lurkers go I think I want to hear from this guy the most:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&%20%20cId=40793&search_author=Liquid%20Snake

Because I'm overall unhappy with the easy suspect-grabbing in that post, if that's one way to describe it.

Another point on Proto:

Paperblade also seems okay to me. Early on, he seems to have posted his thoughts whenever it was relevant, and afterwards he seems to be analyzing the game pretty well. I wouldn't want him lynched. As far as posts are concerned, Paperblade seems the most townish player to me.

He seemed to praise Paper's analysis but there's no mention of his own stance on SB, even when he addresses him directly. This is a bit daunting when Paper's only notable analysis is the big breakdown of SB's posts.

[Bluedoom]

okay marth i have a question: i know you said that you were bored when you made your summary back during D1, but what purpose did it serve being put in the thread? i'm curious

Well I just wanted to be cool like excellen and eclipse but apparently my summaries get lotta hate ;_;

[BT.]

As promised:

~*~THE SHITLIST~*~

Kay
Liquid Snake
NekoRex
Stahlypin
Super Serious Gal

Today, vigs.

Fun fact: I was going to list Xin'dy in there but apparently they did make some substance posts. Just that forgettable.

[BT.]

You and your family can decide who's in and who's out! This isn't exact maths.

I wouldn't mind a Blitz vig for example. Objection/Zeem plausible too.

The Once in a Blue Moon posters should take precedence in any case.

[Grace]

Well I just wanted to be cool like excellen and eclipse but apparently my summaries get lotta hate ;_;

not quite was I was looking for :/ i was kinda seeing if there was a game related reason but that doesn't seem to be the case.

also i actually laughed at seeing

~*~THE SHITLIST~*~

so thanks for that.

the list itself looks pretty good. i'm iffy enough on fera's content that i'd kinda like a vig there but it's definitely a much lower priority than the others

[BBM]

@Manix- I reread the thread, but I skimmed a lot and I can't really pay attention to all 21 other people in the thread at once. Plus a bunch of my D1 scumreads had sort of fizzled out by the end, so I was specifically looking for things that would help my read on them. Kay was the person other than me who was voting for Strege at one point, and because I was unsure about my read there, I wanted to see her case. When I saw it I realized that post was kind of bad. What do you mean by "hit the nail on the head" though? I made a post against Kay, and spoke about some other stuff while I was digging around for more, and then fell asleep midway and just woke up. Gimme a bit.

[Grace]

@Manix- I reread the thread, but I skimmed a lot and I can't really pay attention to all 21 other people in the thread at once.

you don't need to pay attention to all of them, it's practically impossible. but focusing just on one person looks bad.

What do you mean by "hit the nail on the head" though?

i was referring to this:

or put in more clarity, BBM said he reread yet gave no other opinions on players that i can see right now (please tell me if i'm wrong, cause i'll eat my words if so)

basically me being unlazy and actually checking your d2 to prove my point

i'll wait for more content from you. i might be asleep soon though.

[BBM]

Oh, you saying "I checked his ISO" made me think you were referring to my entire play, including D1.

Thoughts so far- if Kay doesn't respond back today I might switch to Fera because no point keeping a vote on Kay for the weekend, especially on a shortened day.

IIRC on D1 I mentioned my problems with Fera's 128; he mentions he doesn't like Blitz but chooses to vote SB for a relatively weak reason (because he doesn't have meta on Blitz), especially as SB's vote was pretty RVS. He dismisses the vote in 241 as a prodvote and that he didn't actually choose to vote SB because of the RVS vote. This implies he knew that SB's post was RVS, making the decision to place a prodvote on him even more questionable when there was actual stuff to go for about Blitz. 240 is filler spec about Rapier that I dislike because looking into stuff like editing times implies that Fera spent a decent amount of effort looking into a sort of useless theory that he dismisses at the end of the post anyways. In 303 he mentions that him not having meta on Blitz doesn't let Blitz off the hook, so again, why didn't he vote for Blitz at the beginning? And he provides more stuff for why Blitz is scummy but still doesn't vote for Blitz, choosing to sheep onto the Baldrick wagon instead.

Paperblade, what happened to your SB suspicion from yesterday? You sort of just dropped it for no discernible reason. Also some more explanation on why Blitz is weak would be nice, although plenty of people have provided it recently so I'm not sure what you can say now.

Also I feel like someone might have pointed this out, but not really a fan of how both Kevin and Proto agreed with Paperblade and said that he was townie, but neither really said much on SB themselves. I guess Kevin's "I agree with Paperblade on every point" could qualify but ehhh.

Kevin also mentioned in his overnight post that he was most suspicious of Scorri, SB, Fera, and Objection, and wary of Proto, Blitz, and Rein. So he finds the first group of people worse than the second group, yet his first D2 post involves a vote for someone from the second group? His reasoning here is that Proto's one D2 post was so bad that it caused him to start sympathizing with SB, which is a pretty iffy reasoning for a 180. Also, he doesn't actually say anything about that post by Proto, just that it's super annoying.

[Sunwoo]

A lot of the game still lacks content. For example most of Boron's posts have more questions than opinions and reads. EDIT: Read the ISO, a few things I'm bothered about are:

a) I've really just seen you have talks with baldy and all; As far as your transition on the Blitz read is concerned, I would've been ok on it if you had any other reads but the thing is anyone else who you address, you question them, so its hard for me to make out what your actual reads are.

Asking questions helps me develop my reads, Marth. Sometimes I want to know what people think about stuff that they haven't addressed, and their response (or lack thereof) helps develop my reads. There's nothing wrong with that. If you can't make out what my "actual reads" are, try harder.

b) I'm still not sure what you think of kirsche and Paperblade- you said you'd read their ISOs and analyze both, but were you planning on posting anything about them? Because I'd have assumed you'd have posted about them by now.

I don't remember where I said that I'd actually read their ISOs. I said that I was planning to, but I never got around to doing an in-depth analysis because real life happened. By the way, other people, do remind me to actually put down an opinion on those two before the end of today.

[BBM]

I agree with the Blitz wagon, but don't really have much to add myself. It's also composed mostly of people I think are town, which is generally a plus point other than c9++ rage; will vote here later if necessary.

BT, one thing though. I don't understand why you choose to vote Blitz over Proto if you find Proto worse. Four votes is surely enough pressure for Blitz that a fifth one isn't really necessary if he's not your top read. Also if Xinny has posts but they're forgettable, isn't that worse than people who just don't have posts?

Also the more I read Objection's posts the more I think newbscum. His 180 and 182 are part of why people thought Baldrick was scummy. He says that "where I got my info from" might make me scummy. After that he just votes inactives for a while, and his 308 and 414 are basically just sheeping me about Paperblade and Kay respectively. His 310 wrt Rein's post doesn't make much sense to me; hopefully he can clarify it. Marth having a lack of content is not scummy? The second part about Blitz doesn't make sense either, because he talks about the fact that the Blitz wagon had died off confirming his opinion on Blitz- except he'd never actually said anything about Blitz before that post.

I'll read Scorri, Proto, and Xinny in a while.

[Paperblade]

I didn't drop the SB suspicion, I just don't really have anything to add to it.

Speaking of which, I acknowledged that your initial reason for voting Proto was fine but you didn't really do anything about any of your other reads (which were on people that were actually doing stuff) instead choosing to just complain about Proto being inactive

##Vote: SB since I don't think I voted

[Paperblade]

that second paragraph was addressed to SB

[Sunwoo]

Okay, so I looked through Paperblade's and kirsche's ISOs.

I originally felt pretty good about Paperblade, but now I'm not so sure. I thought that this post here was pretty good, and he brings up some good points (like the later half of the Baldrick wagon being "easy" and stuff about SB). But it feels like ... he doesn't really go into detail? I dunno how to explain it, honestly. I mean, I feel slightly uneasy about him but I can't really explain it other than gut and just a "bad feeling"? I'll try to put this in explainable terms when I can actually think of them.

Also, Paper, you argued a bit with Shinori over the NekoRex vote and Baldrick-related stuff late in D1, but do you think Shinori is scum? (Same question about Zeem, whose Baldrick vote you also mentioned was lazy.)

I actually don't think kirsche's initial vote on Blitz was bad, but his later post where he says "he made the scummiest move but he wasn't particularly scummy" doesn't sit well with me. I can't say I agree with his earlier Marth vote either. He did say that he voted because he thought there was potential scum motive behind it, but it still feels weird that he immediately jumped upon Strege pointing out Marth's ninja claim and voted with this as his justification. Interesting how he agrees with Paperblade on every point with SB and stuff, but he his only comment on SB in D2 is "I sympathize with his frustrations about Proto". Not feeling good about kirsche at the moment either.

More content later.

[Kay]

I hate saying this because "not saying anything but I will someday, promise" posts always seem stupid to me, but my internet connection was down all day and I won't have time to read the thread properly today. Will try to post tonight, but no guarantee it will happen.

That said, small preview because I noticed a question directed at me while skimming.

Kay, if you're going to state that a wagon is "terrible and stupid", could you at least give reasons why? What do you think about the Baldrick wagon from yesterday and/or the people on it?

Because Blitzy didn't look scummy to me and the fact that people seemed to basically be saying they were voting him for a reaction test doesn't help, particularly when Blitzy's entire playstyle always consists of 100% reaction tests.

[scorri]

Because Blitzy didn't look scummy to me and the fact that people seemed to basically be saying they were voting him for a reaction test doesn't help, particularly when Blitzy's entire playstyle always consists of 100% reaction tests.

Mind if I respond to this? Cool.

So, just off the bat, saying that a wagon is dumb/stupid doesn't help anything. It doesn't explain why people shouldn't be voting him or why they should be voting someone else. If you don't think Blitz is scum, cool. Tell me why. Tell me who else is scummy. Give me a reason to believe it.

Second. It's not the reaction test specifically that's pinging me. It's the way he's going about it. He posted something that was a complete misrep of me and then was like "Oh, lol, I noticed that and just decided to not fix it cause lol reaction test." He's been pushing people with his "reaction tests" and not calling them reaction tests until he's called out for completely switching his views or for completely misrepping.

Third. That's not the only reason I'm voting him. I'm also voting him for calling out other people for not posting reads while posting none of his own, taunting people who find him scummy but who aren't voting him, and just a general vibe of scum from him.

Fourth. Even if that was the only reason I did it, just because he does it every game doesn't make it magically not scummy in this specific instance. Every game is different.