Periodic Table of Elements ~Game Thread~ Game Over

[Sunwoo]

hey Boron remember that time in Fakeclaim Mafia I switched my vote to you because I thought I'd found something incredibly scummy, then you called me an idiot and you were right and I unvoted you in the next post? Yeah it's exactly like that.

I didn't respond to Eury's initial vote because there's not much I can say about "bad vibes" and I assumed it was a weak read that would get replaced with something more substantial. Well, the more substantial thing (still on me, but that's irrelevant) was bad and the follow-up sounded super scummy.

And yeah my vote is on someone who voted me first, but I don't really see how it's an OMGUS. It's not like I have no reasoning.

It's far from the same thing. In Fakeclaim, I was a driver who had swapped your target, and so I knew who you ended up targeting. You found it scummy that I knew who your target was, and I called you an idiot over it because my claim was pretty much out in the open.

Although it's true that you can't respond to "bad vibes", the fact that you switched to Eurykins immediately after she elaborated on her read. Her post about your vote on BBM also came four minutes after you switched, which is a reasonable time frame to miss new posts. You decided that her "not reading" was far scummier than whatever Polydeuces was doing that you didn't like to the point where she was the most vote-worthy person. This is why I feel it's an OMGUS.

[Grace]

I'm not liking Prims much right now. He keeps pressing me for not having STRONG SCUMREADS even though his only one is against me.

and? he has a "strong scumread" on you, and what this is basically telling me is "hey i can't find good cases so i'm going to attack points that don't make people scummy"

Considering I obviously can't find myself scummy, if Prims was in my shoes, what scumreads would he have? Nobody.

projecting; instead of complaining about it, you make the effort to try and find them. even townies under ED1 pressure can have scumreads (volcanic comes to mind)

His Eury read is based on posts after I left the thread to cool off.

???????????????????????????????

no, really? how does that make prims scum? why is it relevant?

this is really bad (and the first thing I saw that immediately made me go "this case is bad")

@Manix- point to where anyone other than you said my reaction to your jokepost was scummy.

Uh, you do realize that your initial random Manix townread and taking someone else's jokepost calling him scum seriously was what started the votes on you, and your reaction just made it worse?

lalalalala

also cut by multiple posts, sec

[Grassbridger]

@Boron - The "not reading" wasn't referring to the post where I cut her; I acknowledged that I had probably cut her and so that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was talking about was the fact that she didn't acknowledge the fact that I already had a stated case on Poly and instead explicitly accused me of not having one and just sheeping to avoid putting down thoughts.

FMPOV the things are the same because I thought I found something that made someone very scummy, I was told why I was wrong, thought about it, realized that my original post was incredibly dumb, and rescinded my vote. Both were due to me having a severe logical lapse.

[Prims]

My main point was always that you're putting more effort into defending yourself than scumhunting. actually reading your posts again I'm probably blowing this out of proportion out of ED1 tunnelvision. whatever

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

Grass wagon is still uninteresting sorry

[Grace]

Seriously, Manix? ;/

you're missing the question. i want to know why you had a bunch of scummy things about BBM, then changed your mind on them

i know ~why~ your stance is what it is now, but where's the connect

This is the second time you've said that about one of my posts... also it's not at all based around semantics. There's nothing semantic about that post.

yay breakdowns

What I'm mostly noticing is the swearing and "come on guys" tone.

One thing that I do notice about BBM, though, is that he isn't asking questions. Well, he is, but they're all either defensive or rhetorical.

this isn't basing a case around ~some~ semantics? uh huh.

[Grace]

wait now i'm dumb, nvm boron (you answered it in your post)

[Prims]

kirsche had a good opener but I think as he's posted more his scumhunting has been nitpicky. also why did poly pop up on his scum list after he mentioned having no problem with poly at all initially. there's no talk about poly in between aside from some rhetoric so that's completely arbitrary

[Grassbridger]

That isn't what the word semantics means

THIS (what I'm typing now) is a post about semantics. Semantics is about the meaning of words and language. The first quote is about tone (not semantics) and the second is about meta and what type of stuff he's posting (also not semantics). You're just misusing the word and I have no idea what you mean.

[Grace]

Semantics is about the meaning of words and language.

you're being semantic about the use of the words (noting the use of swearing, hence the meaning around it/not asking questions, which is also based around the words)

w/e i'm no english major, but this is going nowhere

[Sunwoo]

@Boron - The "not reading" wasn't referring to the post where I cut her; I acknowledged that I had probably cut her and so that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was talking about was the fact that she didn't acknowledge the fact that I already had a stated case on Poly and instead explicitly accused me of not having one and just sheeping to avoid putting down thoughts.

But WHY does this make Eurykins scummier than Polydeuces? Why does this suddenly put her at the top of your scum reads and lynch priority? This, in addition to the BBM vote, is my issue with you.

you're missing the question. i want to know why you had a bunch of scummy things about BBM, then changed your mind on them

i know ~why~ your stance is what it is now, but where's the connect

Well, first, I wouldn't say that I had a "bunch" of scummy things about BBM. I asked him what the point of outing his town read the way he did was. The "you realize your random Manix townread [...]" statement was not referring to this game but to C9++ and why the votes on BBM started then. "You look like you're trying to get on Manix's good side" applies to why I think outing the town read was bad in both games, though.

But seriously, I've been thinking of C9++!BBM since my first actual non-RVS post, the sentiment has been there. Townies can do things that appear scummy to most of people in the game, and have it snowball out of control because of their own bad reactions. I'm allowed to understand what's making BBM so bad in the eyes of others, yet not think he's scum myself because I am reminded of a game where he displayed similar behavior and was town.

[Sunwoo]

wait now i'm dumb, nvm boron (you answered it in your post)

SF aren't you supposed to tell me when new posts crop up ;_;

[Grace]

in other news I have a whole bunch of null and not many townreads. needs more talking. also needs more rereading (to which i shall do in a bit because i need to temporarily afk)

unrelated (and not at all relevant to the game, soz): sniper has the best lines in tf2

as seen here

[Prims]

ok manix so who are you vigging

[Grassbridger]

But WHY does this make Eurykins scummier than Polydeuces? Why does this suddenly put her at the top of your scum reads and lynch priority? This, in addition to the BBM vote, is my issue with you.

Eury already had a vote on me and I was basically the only one she had found scummy. So, if she's either selectively ignoring or not reading some of my posts (like where I explained my Poly read/vote), but voting me for "vibes" and then reinforcing it with more stuff later, well that's scummy because she looked like she was trying to manufacture a case on me on purpose (as I said). Then her reaction was more scummy because instead of going back and actually rereading and updating her read, she acknowledged that she hadn't really been reading my posts while also being snarky and condescending. "Yeah I didn't really read your posts but I have a GUT FEELING on you so I don't have to explain myself, also this one time in a previous game I was right about a scumread and I'm not going to answer your question"

[Grace]

ok manix so who are you vigging

no one

it was unrelated to the game

[BBM]

@Manix- The point of mentioning Eury was that it was Prims's only read that wasn't me, and that I couldn't have had that read myself because those posts were after I left the thread. And townies under pressure can scumhunt and have reads, that is true, and I'm making an effort in doing so. But that doesn't make it less hypocritical for Prims to pressure me for having no reads when he wouldn't in my shoes either. (This all pertains to the state of matters at the time I made that post; not really applicable anymore.

Anyways my own thoughts about Eury- her "vibes" feel the exact same as in the last two games to me. There's nothing really new she's doing here.

I was rereading a bit and Trollstool's one post sort of stood out to me as taking a lot of words to not really say anything of worth about me, Poly, or Grass. Don't really agree with the logic behind her townreads on Prims and Manix but I suppose I can hardly fault people for having reasons for townreads I can't get. What bothers me more than that is in OS, even though he didn't have a lot of reads early on, he still threw out a prodvote on someone and made some scumhunting attempts, even though they were kind of shitty. Here he just stated he had nothing to do.

##Unvote for now since Prims responded to my main stuff. Will think about who to vote in a bit.

[Prims]

so was your vote literally only on me because i thought you were scum

[Grace]

But that doesn't make it less hypocritical for Prims to pressure me for having no reads when he wouldn't in my shoes either.

i refer back to projecting: you're assuming prims plays like you do, which is clearly untrue

[Sunwoo]

Eury already had a vote on me and I was basically the only one she had found scummy. So, if she's either selectively ignoring or not reading some of my posts (like where I explained my Poly read/vote), but voting me for "vibes" and then reinforcing it with more stuff later, well that's scummy because she looked like she was trying to manufacture a case on me on purpose (as I said). Then her reaction was more scummy because instead of going back and actually rereading and updating her read, she acknowledged that she hadn't really been reading my posts while also being snarky and condescending. "Yeah I didn't really read your posts but I have a GUT FEELING on you so I don't have to explain myself, also this one time in a previous game I was right about a scumread and I'm not going to answer your question"

Bolded: That's not something that's necessarily scummy in itself though. In Fakeclaim, I had strange vibes about Manix for the entirety of D1 that I couldn't articulate until later in the phase. Was I manufacturing a case on Manix because I only reinforced my vibes later? I'm sure I've seen people do this kind of behavior as well, so I'm not reading this as scummy.

Italics: While I do agree that Eury should respond properly to you (and that her response doesn't look very good), being condescending and snarky in itself does not make one scum. Also, I am asking about your vote on Eurykins WHEN YOU MADE IT. Yes, I understand that her reactions to you gave you more reason to keep it, but what I am not understanding is the initial vote. That's what's rubbing me the wrong way. While she was wrong about the Poly suspicions, the BBM point is more of a matter of perspective/interpretation, and I don't know how this post alone made her more lynch-worthy than Poly.

[Refa]

Note that I skipped Boron's wall of text and have only read up till #167, just really wanted to have SOMETHING out.

How is that associative? He's saying that people are playing the same way as they did in Snooping and so he's wary of BBM as he's playing like he did then, and he was scum then. You have a Pedit where you say "I still don't like the associative reads part" but I'm not seeing any association whatsoever. He's saying both of you are playing like you did in Snooping and that he's wary of you for it.

This is the part in question that is an associative read.

I'm not thinking you're scum just yet, but considering the Snoop vibes I'm getting from Refa, I'm keeping wary of you being scum since you suckered everyone then too with very similar play.

So clearly his read on me is influencing whatever the fuck his read is on BBM. He really should elaborate on that.

BBM's last post feels like he's overreacting but it feels more like he's annoyed before being defensive about himself. I feel his rage is actually kind of townie, checking back in his other posts, and his scumhunting doesn't really feel forced to me.

Yeah, I'm not getting scum vibes from his last couple of posts (disregarding that fuck everyone post because that's dumb regardless of his alignment). Honestly, someone else is bothering me more at the moment, so

##Unvote

This is 2-3 times more emotion than I'd expect out of Town!BBM or most town players really.

This is very much similar to AM/PM as there you were basically crying over how frustrated you were at people's meta of you and you're doing the same thing here. The play I'm comparing you right now to is not the origin of the case but the reactions you made towards it, which mirror your reactions now.

Admittedly I have no knowledge of playing AM/PM, but in my experience it's much more likely for town to get overly frustrated over a potential mislynch than scum (not a mislynch in scum's case w/e) who can use it to their advantage if played right. I don't think your logic is flawed, but not really agreeing with it myself.

so, meta. can you explain why Refa is playing like Snooping!Refa over anything else? explain to me why he's scummy, without using a general blanket statement.

I would like to know this as well.

Refa (Quieter Snoop!Refa = still scum) > Shmomei (need more from either of them to move them down) > Boron (if BBM gets lynched + flips scum, otherwise she's town IMO) > Eury (seems really dickish right now)

I'm kinda ehhhhhhhh on my 2nd and 3rd options, and I don't care to vote BBM like a few others have done as of now, since I'm indifferent on him thus far.

Aside from me, which I've already elaborated on, your lynch priority is pretty bad. #2 is a set of inactives, like seriously. It's like you aren't even trying anymore. And how can Boron be #3 on your lynch priority for today, when your reasoning relies on a BBM flip? Didn't really find Eury particularly offensive, but YMMV, so w/e.

##Vote: Polydeuces

Would like you to respond to my last post.

[Grassbridger]

As I've said, several times: It looked to me like she was trying to manufacture a case on me. My basis for this was the fact that I was her top scumread and she was either ignoring or not reading some of my posts (specifically the one where I voted someone).

[BBM]

so was your vote literally only on me because i thought you were scum

No the main reason was because you were just calling me scum off meta and not even acknowledging all relevant meta cases.

@Manix- It's not projecting; it's an expectation that if you ask someone to do something, you would be able to do the same in their situation.

[BBM]

Okay; I think I'm going to ##Vote: Polydeuces

As I said earlier, him listing only one of me and Boron in his scumreads even though the Boron read is completely associative (which is bad in and of itself without a flip) makes no sense. He said in one post that me quitting the thread was super scummy (and that he'd vote me for it if Refa wasn't scummier, just to say 15 minutes later that he's not interested in voting me at all which doesn't make sense. He also just keeps saying that Refa is scummy for playing like Snoop without saying why, at all (in fact, the only time he actually compares specific facets of Refa's play between the two games is to point out a difference). In 132 he lets Eury go because it's her first post, which is sort of a shitty reason, but then 15 minutes later calls her out for being defensive and forced even though the only post Eury made in the meantime was the one where she talked about how she's not going to be friendly or whatever. I can see how he might have thought that was dickish (though not why he thought that was scummy), but considering that post wasn't actually an attack against Grass I don't see how it could be forced or even defensive. Everything he says about Grass in the first paragraph of 132 is positive (or at least not negative), but he still ends it with an ehhhhhhhhhhh which is ehhhhhhhhhhh since he never said anything bad about Grass.

[BBM]

Also, since Grass unvoted to vote Eury, he's made no attempt to analyze Poly's posts, even though they've both had several posts since then. Grass has just been defending his Eury vote. Grass, do you still find Poly scummy?

[Prims]

I think Poly is town. You guys suck.

Specifically, his ED1 was too attention-seeking. Scum don't do that shit.