AM/PM 2 Mafia - GAME OVER

[Terrador]

Less trustworthy than flippedscum/10ador

[Bluedoom]

So like, what.

Do I hammer now?

[Terrador]

There is no hammer. Most votes = lynch, tie = no lynch, given that more than a third of the players are voting.

[Terrador]

Marth, do you think Mancer is actually scum?

[Bluedoom]

Its gotta be one of Mancer and Blitz

(I thought of the possibility of two dayscum but it seems very unlikely)

And I don't think Blitz is very scummy

[Makaze]

Oh, if it was someone claiming flavor, then it was probably Junk. I think Blitz claimed Baldrick as well, but I can't seem to find where for some reason...

He did in any announcement.

[Refa]

Did phase end yet?

[Terrador]

Phase end is in forty-five minutes.

[Sunwoo]

On phone. Internet and Skype just died. If you can, please update phase eclipse.

[Sunwoo]

Phase end. No posting.

[Sunwoo]

Mancer (4): Refa, Makaze, Snike, Shinori

Snike (2): Bluedoom, Lord Gaius

Blitz (1): Terrador

Not Voting: None

Mancer has been lynched! He was:

Dear Mancer,

You are Kaoz, town night mislynch gain courier.

You were the impetus behind the first ever fuck tiger, the success which will never be replicated on SF, ever. Your notable achievements include a rivalry with Haze, winning as mafia with 10 posts, and periodically publishing helpful stuff in the mafia threads. Also, you hosted a mafia game where the town started at potential MYLO. Those were the days!

Each cycle you may send 2 messages that are no more than 150 words to someone in the game. Your target may not reply back.

You currently have no abilities, but you may become motivated enough to do something when townies begin to fall.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.

It is now N3. N3 will end on April 24 at 12:00 AM PST. The following players may post during this phase:

Blitz

Junko

Poly

Also fuck you Serenes Forest stop eating my posts and making me retype shit.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Sunwoo

[MancerNecro]

Really, guys? Really?

[MRDRHAWK]

WEED

I don't feel like werdsing seriously yet. I only have one shot, and I kinda wanna shoot Terralec. If you two can gimme good enough reason not to, then I'll shoot someone else.

[j00]

LOUDSPEAKERS

"Nobody listens. imo vig Blitz tonight; I don't trust Makaze's reads, and him misreading + scum siding with him = potentially half of our voting bloc tomorrow.

Night players, do NOT waste tonight. Junko and Poly in particular, as townies: dissect this phase. Everything happens for a reason. Being wrong about Mancer obviously doesn't necessarily equal scum. In particular, Makaze is confirmed town and Shinori was compelled (and is the lone claimed investigative role, on a template proven to exist for town), leaving Refa and Snike as prime suspects. Dig for associations and scum intent.

Poly, Shinori: regardless of your read on me, don't bother using anything on me. If I'm scum, I'd be immediately turbo'd after Blitz flips. Use your resources somewhere worthy.

Expect announce #2 soon before phase end; gonna take one more hard look at Refa vs. Snike to post in event of NK on me.

-Terrador"

[Junk]

HOW MANY TIMES WILL I FORGET TO INCLUDE MY IDENTITY IN MY POST!

(yes i'm shin in terms of flavour)

@refa I was saying that I didn't know who might be the nightscum. Blitz is probably scum by POE because it seems kind of ridiculous that there would be three dayscum. I was also saying that taking just what prims said about saying mancer should be bussed was scum and BBM pressured mancer just for that would be a risky reason to think why BBM might have pressured his scumbuddy.

I don't feel like bluedoom would bus his buddy so early into the game because last time when I was scum in CG he was heavily against me bussing him or boron.

Now that I know mancers numbers it would be suicide for shinori to claim cop so meh he's town.

okay school awaits, bye

[Junk]

Wait I forgot about the blitz and vig thing. Even if he knew it on N2 couldn't he have still killed poly as scum?

Then it's bluedoom then by POE? urgghh I don't get this. Let me reread the interactions between BBM and Bluedoom.

[MRDRHAWK]

Blitz thought I was lying because of the way I claimed courier/announcer, not because he knew I was vig. That's a non-issue.

Honestly, I'm not sure who exactly is scum. Reading is hard.

[Blitz]

sooo not in the mood for making a long post, but, I will start and see where it takes me,

btw, useless setupspecs, if Shinori is town, then I am pretty sure we pulled an sf (by lynching out doc)

WEED

I don't feel like werdsing seriously yet. I only have one shot, and I kinda wanna shoot Terralec. If you two can gimme good enough reason not to, then I'll shoot someone else.

I would prefer a Terra shot because I believe Terra is lying because http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53097&page=36#entry3722500

notice the pattern, we have 3 normal day vanilla claims being Refa, SB and Gaius

while Shinori and Makaze both has the same 2 announcements with a role which is nerfed (well, tbh, I would prefer Makaze's role to Elie's role in terms of power) a day vanilla has 1-announcements with 1 courier. (@Terrador THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH AM/PM1 like you accused)

my setup spec theory is that a day person has 2 info sending roles if has another role or 3 info sending role as vanilla.

Snike's role is indeed a difference to this norm, but for him, his role is a power up, not a power down, which actually means he is very likely not lying (in terms of hiding role). I was thinking he might have a negative role attached to it to balance it out.

For Terrador on the other hand, he is claiming the same role as Makaze and Shinori, minus the role attached with, which makes it more likely that Terrador is hiding true role which I believe to be the case. I wouldn't be bothered if Terrador was claiming 1-announcement and 2-courier in a hypothetical situation where he had only outed one announcement per day phase that is.

[spoiler=Pure setupsecs with no actual value otherwise]Actually, I just noticed this, but night players, since all of them other than one has a role, have couriers mainly to claim the roles to avoid lynches. Only difference being Prims because he would make more sense to announce who he had powered up in thread anonymously unless necessary otherwise I guess

Now moving onto defending myself against accusations

#774 really bugs me. Blitz is just rambling about setup speculation and claiming Marth and Gaius are scummy for misreading things (protip: being town doesn't mean you magically have three hours a day every day to give to the game, some folks are going to be rushed in some parts of the week/feeling drained and lethargic and not willing to make content, this is alignment-neutral as hell). The one person he actually says is consistently behaving in a scummy way in that announcement? Snike. Which isn't bad at all... except that Snike is at the bottom of his lynch priority.This is absolutely archetypal scummy behavior: not having lynch priority line up with the strength of your cases, and in particular casing buddies harder than you're reading them.

I highly doubt I have 2.5 hours a day to play mafia in average and I have played for an average of less than 1 hour in 2 days (unless I am playing OC/Eimm, when I cut sleep times A LOT) but reading properly is something you want to do, especially if you are scumreading someone, so that you know what the person is thinking, after all, why would a townie wanna mislynch someone ?

not willing to make content is also fine, but it is also fine for me to pressure someone who is lacking content ( I fake scumreads from time to time for obtaining content)

and I didn't say Snike was behaving in a scummy way, I said what he did could come from scum as well. The gist was, he might not be town, not I find him scummy

quoting myself for reference:

"Snike-lots of things he has done can come from scum. Like not voting me could have been playing it safe in between towncred and saving buddy under the excuse. Getting into either and switching later would've been worse. One thing really bugs me is #63, BBM named Snike's role."

and this falls under not reading properly

Also, I do not have another role. Fuck's sake, y'all don't think I'd have noticed the pattern? 2 announcement day vanilla has absolutely existed before in AMPM. Prims had 2 announcements, and yes, a role--but he was also a night player. Stop with the weak-ass setup speculation, Blitz.

and I was only talking about the day pattern, in this game

...actually, Blitz, I do believe I have something to damn you on.
Snike is claimed 4 courier/0 announce--that deviates from your confirmed vanilla model of 2 courier/1 announce, does it not? So, evidently we're both lying. Why isn't Snike just as high on your lynch priority? You have me as lying, but personally admitted my cases were good and there was no scum intent. But you said you saw a lot of stuff coming out of Snike that look scummy, yet he's at the bottom of your suspect list. Further evidence that your push on me is critically, fundamentally flawed at best--most likely farcical.

already mentioned what I had to about Snike's role. if wanna talk about townreads, I had far more reason to be townreading Mancer than I had to be townreading you. Yet the fact is, Mancer made it to the list. Why should you be an exception. I was also townreading Marth, he made the list too. I already mentioned why Snike didn't make it to the middle of that list.

@Terrador, things that bothered me about you:

1) I asked you two questions as to how Refa could be scum, you didn't even try to properly answer that.

and then you post this

And for Mancer not trusting Quote: being wrong doesn't make you scummy. Using arguments that you fully know don't hold water does. And that... still doesn't change the fact that the scum in question would have to give his ass when Makaze outed him as the one who didn't disclose it and caused a no lynch, and nobody here is incompetent enough to not know that.

hypocrisy much?

2) not actually reading my posts properly. This is s scumtell, regardless of what you say

3) claiming it is completely alright to not properly read posts

4) calling Makaze scum for not having scumread scum, while casing having scum reads worse than him (this never showed up until I did a quick ISO)

gonna go into more details with this

- your two cases were Makaze and me, your play isn't inconsistent and I don't see scum intent from those reads, but Makaze is rolecleared and I know I am town (pretty sure you actually know that, but not gonna go into it.)

- you said Makaze was scummy for casing townies in http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53097&view=findpost&p=3715034

- you tell Junko that he should have more scumreads <http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53097&view=findpost&p=3712749>whenhe had 1 and you had 2. Even after saying that, after changing your read on Makaze, you basically only had 1 scumread and I didn't see you trying to improve it. I would say hypocrisy right there.

@Snike<http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53097&p=3704859%C2%A0>this was BBM, lol, not Refa.

Also, funfacts, regarding SB's nightkill, if I were scum, I would NEVER agree on killing SB because he had used both his announcement and courier N0, so, he fell in vanilla category and I knew Refa was vanilla too because of same reason, so, if I were buddies with Snike, he probably wouldn't have sent the message (unless WIFOM??)

I should be off to sleep, so, I am just gonna be lazy and not post links,okay fine, I quote posts

quoted from announcement:

"Blitz hasn't done a whole let for his defense, and hasn't swayed me off my scumread on him. What did you gain from your Shinori vote? What was your goal?"

Blitz's content has been much better since his Shinori vote, although he is more null at the moment. The lists post and his defense seemed pretty reasonable, I also think the questioning Poly stuff was very town-oriented. However, this is one of the night lynches I'd advocate the most, because we either get scum or if Blitz flips town make Terrador likely scum. PoE really.

my point was, I never made any further defense for myself after your announcement, how did my bad defense turn reasonable all of a sudden?

now I am off to sleep

[Makaze]

Accident; mod approved edit. Sorry.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Makaze

[Sunwoo]

This message brought to you by: LOUDSPEAKERS

Makaze.

• @Blitz: I have only have 1 announcement.
• My reads: They do suck. I'm sorry. Should have lynched Bluedoom instead. Still strong though. No matter how I look at it, I'm Snike and Blitz are cleared. If Blitz thought Poly was lying and didn't kill him as scum, he's a worse player than I give him credit for. Snike's clear is even stronger.
• Refa: He still reads really town to me even if he's not cleared. He's consistently suggested pro-town actions and taken them himself. He deserves to win if he's scum.

Lynch priority: Lord Gaius > Terrador > Bluedoom

[MRDRHAWK]

If Refa was scum I'd be dead by now since I claimed to him first. He also wouldn't have got me to shoot his buddy unless he's suddenly become MEGA ULTRA BUSSER.

He's about as clear as Makaze, tbh.

[Sunwoo]

Did I mention the loudspeakers recently?

"Poly, Blitz is scum by your own PoE. You said that Marth is town if BBM is scum, plus two clears. If wrong, still find a scum (me). Worthy.

Blitz said Snike was scum if SB wasn't here, then defends Snike being at the bottom of his lynch priority, yet no post about why Snike is clear or less of a scumread. Obvious backpedaling.

He ignores the possibility of day vanilla to "case" me. He says not reading the game is scummy, then, he misrepresents my criticism of Makaze as scumreading. More convinced Snike > Refa as scum now though; didn't bother answering Blitz's questions because he's scum and they're trash.

The "wouldn't kill SB" defense means shit. I wouldn't have either, so I can't be scum! That logic doesn't work.

He cases on setup, backpedals on Snike, and follows his own scumtells, on top of PoE.

VIG BLITZ.

-Terrador"

[Blitz]

Quoting announcement by Terrador

"Blitz said Snike was scum if SB wasn't here, then defends Snike being at the bottom of his lynch priority, yet no post about why Snike is clear or less of a scumread. Obvious backpedaling.

1)He ignores the possibility of day vanilla to "case" me. 2)He says not reading the game is scummy, then, he misrepresents my criticism of Makaze as scumreading. 3)More convinced Snike > Refa as scum now though; didn't bother answering Blitz's questions because he's scum and they're trash.

4)The "wouldn't kill SB" defense means shit. I wouldn't have either, so I can't be scum! That logic doesn't work.

He cases on setup, backpedals on Snike, and follows his own scumtells, on top of PoE.

VIG BLITZ.

-Terrador"

this post is definitely top 10 funniest so far in the game

LOL, did you happen to see the internal infos outed by Refa? clearly you didn't

1) Now I am laughing real hard irl cause you clearly didn't read what I said, LOL 2) This post quoted below is criticism, looks more like scumreading for scumreading townies, no?

Speaking of turbos...

##Vote: Makaze

Makaze: you've had a strong and confirmed town player reading you as scum, two of your pushed scumreads (three FMPOV) are confirmed town, and you and Strawman seemed to be doing what looks like reasonable buddying, and this on top of the wall of case on you earlier. Where's the town content? At all?

3)wanna talk about what is utter trash?, you scumreading Refa is the perfect example and answering those two points (which you would badly fail to do if you even attempted, lol)which further proves your own scummy play because

And for Mancer not trusting Quote: being wrong doesn't make you scummy. Using arguments that you fully know don't hold water does. And that... still doesn't change the fact that the scum in question would have to give his ass when Makaze outed him as the one who didn't disclose it and caused a no lynch, and nobody here is incompetent enough to not know that.

I absolutely cannot emphasize on this enough, because you are doing it with Refa and I just realized, my other quoted post of you contradicts this, because here you said it is okay to scumread townies while to Makaze you said, you scumreading dead townies is a scumtell. I seriously wonder how this is not hypocrisy

4) yeah, but it wasn't meant to be a defense, lol

5) I am known for setup speccing so much that my own mason buddies wanted me dead, lol. I also believe my speculations are right.

I didn't back pedal on Snike, the fact is, when everyone suddenly turns into the same value for townreads, you have to increase the margin and that is what I did.

I didn't fail at reading, either you did, you failed to express yourself with your own words or you are just grasping at straws, lol

@Gaius, Shinori, Marth and Refa (since you still have your announcement, lol) should drop some thoughts in thread, especially on what you guys think of Terra.

@Makaze, more setupspecs; I never realized you never announced more than once per cycle. Well, my setupspec mainly was that more LOCs are given to balance out weaker roles. Day players have a vote and for this they get weaker roles and less LOCs, while on the other hand, night players get stronger roles or messages in exchange of their votes. However, I always did think your role was stronger than Elie's which makes sense for you to have a greater drawdown than Elie considering you have a vote too.

Also, Junko and Poly should also drop your thoughts on me VS Terrador

I do not remember if I mentioned this or not, but IMO, we should decide on who to vig so that Shinori can use his cop wisely

basically, if I am being shot, Shinori should scan one of Snike and Gaius. In Terra's own words, he should be given the lynch when I flip town

if Terra is being shot, one of me or Marth should be scanned. you guys (Junko and Poly should also input thoughts on who should be scanned IMO

[Blitz]

*"5)He cases on setup, backpedals on Snike, and follows his own scumtells, on top of PoE."

this is the fifth addressed point, which I forgot to mention

[MRDRHAWK]

cool mafia gaym

I'm not sure what else to add.