Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Prims]

I wish Via was still in the game so they could read Eury for me. kirsche, bussing exists, it'd be cool if you gave a real read on her instead of confirmation bias!! Will start writing my post in a bit.

[Prims]

why do you believe that rose is worse than gaius/paper? youre taking issue with rose (which im fine with. hes my second pick) keeping his hands free of the vhaltz wagon but didnt paper do the same thing cept worse cuz he kept doing it for the majority of the day with little else? feel free to ignore this question til rose gets in here

Paper directly opposed the Vhaltz wagon and tried to talk voters out of it. Rose didn't get involved at all. It makes him look topical while still enabling the wagon without getting his hands dirty.

As for the Excellen case by Prims and Kirsche, you say it's scummy to not vote Snike after having him as one of your two top priority scumreads, but Excellen has reasons in his post for voting Kirsche. You're pretty blatantly ignoring what Excellen said. He believed that Snike was going to be the lynch D1, but was wondering what reactions to his Kirsche case would be. Prims, after the Rapier flip Excellen literally said in post 264 (paraphrasing) "I'm withholding voting to let my thoughts crystallize." Why is it scummy for him to not vote Snike immediately? I don't see the lack of conviction because it's clear Snike was still Excellen's second highest scumread.

Why did Excellen feel the need to crystallize his thoughts? He was willing to vote Rapier when he considered Snike just as scummy. The obvious reaction to Rapier biting it would be to vote Snike. Do you think Excellen is town or are you just defending him for the sake of defending him?

I'm not impressed by Gaius' post. I don't know why he brought up Vhaltz for one and I don't think what he has on Mancer is very strong. I can't tell why he actually suspects YOLO either or why he considers YOLO a better lynch than Shin. Gaius, why do Rose's posts lean "overwhelmed town"? The post looks like stances for the sake of stances when Gaius is not actually pursuing anything because of them.

My big question would be why I'd vote and actively contribute to my scumbuddy being lynched as scum. I mean, it could be crazy bussing, but you can see how badly that went if it were the case.

There was only one vote on Snike when you switched and Vhaltz was drawing a lot more attention. I don't think you could have predicted kirsche's switch. this isn't much of a defense and I find your jump to "but why would I bus" when nobody was really proposing you as the lynch today suspicious.

I'm still waiting on Things from Shinori and Excellen. I'm OK with Excellen lynch still but agree with Vhaltz about how scum!Excellen could've BSed harder and how Excellen's play could come from unlucky town, don't consider Excellen a priority over Rose/Shinori and Paper/Gaius because of this. Finding Paper's slot scummier after Gaius' post.

@Eury: why are you talking about Bossa's shot now and not postgame? it's not relevant to who is scum. You seem to consider Paper's D1 scummy. do you find Gaius scummy and/or a good lynch target? what do you think about Rose's slot?

@Vhaltz: can you give more detailed reads on the people in my lynch pool since you said you agreed with it?

[Shin]

There was only one vote on Snike when you switched and Vhaltz was drawing a lot more attention. I don't think you could have predicted kirsche's switch. this isn't much of a defense and I find your jump to "but why would I bus" when nobody was really proposing you as the lynch today suspicious.

I'm not really using it as a defense, I'm legitimately trying to understand the logic behind why I'd do it as scum. I mean, it's hypothetically possible, but I can't quite understand A to B in my head. I'm aware I'm in no danger of being lynched, but that doesn't prevent me from being somewhat perplexed.

Truth be told, I'd probably be OK with an Excellen lynch. Looking back, his Snike interactions were pretty bad. My only worry is that Excellen's playing on their own agenda. Still, I don't like LG's defense, whilst Excellen did talk a lot about Snike, I never got any real sense of commitment, and the only real "yeah, Snike is scum" came after he was lynched. I'm not quite sure that's how scum reads work.

[Zkirsche]

I wish Via was still in the game so they could read Eury for me. kirsche, bussing exists, it'd be cool if you gave a real read on her instead of confirmation bias!! Will start writing my post in a bit.

I don't think scum would bus so readily with it being 7/2 and after D1.

Tell you what, I'll bother to properly analyse Eury's wall if you tell me why Excellen was townie D1. Is it just a mix of what Vhaltz said?

Excellen needs to exist and say who is scum.

[Prims]

I forgot about that. While thinking about it earlier I just realized I sort of wrote him off as genuine based on the early D1 rage and post about keeping up with the thread. I don't really consider the townread valid now.

What are your non-Excellen reads? I'm not sure what you have to gain from going for the super tunnel here.

[charlie_]

Shinori (3): Prims, Shin, Vhaltz

Excellen Browning (2): Executive kirsche, Eurykins

Lord Gaius (1): #HBC YOLOSWAG

Eurykins (1): Lord Gaius

Not Voting (2): Shinori, Excellen Browning

There are 36 hours and 30 minutes left in the phase. I think.

[Vhaltz]

The evidence brought up against Excellen is pretty decent so I'd be fine with their lynch if everybody else seems townier at deadline, despite what I said earlier. I'm just more interested in seeing how new content develops at this point to make sure I'm not just making the lazy/easy decision if that makes any sense? It doesn't help Excellen's case much that they were around when I posted and didn't bother to say anything.

I don't like Gaius' post, something bugged me wrt how he went about Shin/Yolo since they felt like pushes that catered to possibility paranoia, more than pushes based on their likelyhood of being scum. Then Eury came around and did a very similar post so I shrugged it off, but in hindsight there's a pretty big difference in how the handle the Excellen slot compared to the rest. Gaius was pretty willing to justify Excellen despite their bad interactions with Snike (and while simultaneously being cool with pursuing Yolo/Shin) whereas Eury's analysis of Excellen's interactions with Snike was reasonable and her issues with people on the wagon were more along the line of "they're not confirmed town" caution than "they could still be scum!" accusations.

Shinori's being a slob.

I'd probably go Gaius > Shinori > Excellen but Shinori Needs To Post so I'm fine with my vote staying where it is until Shinori efforts or phase end comes around.

For what townreads are worth at this point I'm almost 100% on prims!town and kirsche!town not just because of their play and wagon placements but because the Snike flip means that there's some town night action worth redirecting, and I'm highly certain that kirsche/prims would've aimed for someone other than the used up dayvig that wasn't even swimming in towncred anyways.

[Vhaltz]

Forgot to directly address Eury but you should probably be able to tell what I think of the slot given the above comparison with Gaius, my earlier Mancer townread and Eury not being in the lynch priority list to begin with.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

i still think gaius/paper is our best bet n encourage every1 to vote him. looks like people are coming around to him. rose/shinori can go too but i cant shake papers d1. i dont think excellen should b prioritized over the prior 2 cuz i feel like theres guaranteed scum between em

[ZoesMad]

Why did Excellen feel the need to crystallize his thoughts? He was willing to vote Rapier when he considered Snike just as scummy. The obvious reaction to Rapier biting it would be to vote Snike. Do you think Excellen is town or are you just defending him for the sake of defending him?

I'm not impressed by Gaius' post. I don't know why he brought up Vhaltz for one and I don't think what he has on Mancer is very strong. I can't tell why he actually suspects YOLO either or why he considers YOLO a better lynch than Shin. Gaius, why do Rose's posts lean "overwhelmed town"? The post looks like stances for the sake of stances when Gaius is not actually pursuing anything because of them.

- How is taking an hour or two to step away and think things other scummy? After a flip is generally a good time to reconsider what reads you have and check out how the game has interacted, and Excellen thought Kirsche was worth checking out. Not immediately voting Snike doesn't seem like it's "I'm not willing to bus my partner" more than "I should check what's happened so far and see if anyone's scummier before tunneling my old scumread." Regardless of what you all said, Excellen also had a good early Day 1 in my opinion along with why I think this case is bad, and is not something I'm sheeping/helping with. If not made obvious by this, yes I think Excellen is town. He does need to be more active, been ~36 hours w/o a post.

- As I said at the beginning of the post of you read it, this also had thoughts from day 1. I wanted this post to make it out during the start of D2 but unfortunately that didn't happen. I thought some of my D1 thoughts might be worth mentioning for you guys to read my slot more effectively. Can't say much about my Mancer case, I stated everything I thought was scummy about him, although I'm looking at Eury's wall again, my vote was definitely a prod for content there. As for why I scumread Yolo, he wasn't very memorable Day 1 other than pursuing Vhaltz aggressively, as he seemed to be lynching/scumreading inactives at random. I found it pretty hard to generate reads when everything

I don't like Gaius' post, something bugged me wrt how he went about Shin/Yolo since they felt like pushes that catered to possibility paranoia, more than pushes based on their likelyhood of being scum. Then Eury came around and did a very similar post so I shrugged it off, but in hindsight there's a pretty big difference in how the handle the Excellen slot compared to the rest. Gaius was pretty willing to justify Excellen despite their bad interactions with Snike (and while simultaneously being cool with pursuing Yolo/Shin) whereas Eury's analysis of Excellen's interactions with Snike was reasonable and her issues with people on the wagon were more along the line of "they're not confirmed town" caution than "they could still be scum!" accusations.

I mean the basis of this is that I'm townreading Excellen unlike the majority of the player just and I'm scummy for it? I don't get where you found paranoia in my post, an example would be appreciated. I explained my scumreads better in my reply to Prims so look there if needed.

[ZoesMad]

Also the fact that Yolo has tunneled on people hardcore is another thing that I see showing either laziness or avoiding generating reads for some of the game. Most of his content amounts to Paper/Gaius is scum, and he did the same thing to Vhaltz D1 until consolidating. It's ny the reads that bothers me, more than the lack of awareness towards the rest of he player base.

[Shinori]

Shinori efforting is really hard.

Work with me.

I REALLY AM NOT GONNA READ THIS WHOLE THREAD.

Gonna go glance at the excellen thing supposedly on like page 19 and glance/skim over some other things.

[Shinori]

I will say someone targeted me with something that I don't like cause frankly it means whatever i do this day phase doesn't really matter.

Which really kills my drive to attempt to do anything.

[Shinori]

I mean I also know who that person is.

[Zkirsche]

@Prims: Gaius is scummy, you/Vhaltz are townie. Shinori looks pretty cool too on gut. Indifferent about the rest.

@Shinori: Is this person likely scum based on what they did to you?

[Excellen Browning]

You want posts? Well then I'll give you posts.

Eurykins subs in(#302) and in the following 14 hours she doesn't make the effort to read the ISO on Snike or apparently do anything but skim the thread(#344). This can happen. She makes a case against me, which is freshly copied from Prims and Kevin/kirsche(#398). Also plays a slight defense for kirsche.

Kevin/kirsche has been tunneling me hard the entire day. 90% of his case is salt over me voting him D1, with a dash of thinking I'm an arrogant dick. The remaining 10% is my voting pattern on D1, which was handed to him on a platter by Prims(#358), after Kevin had gone ahead and voted me. He implies he has more scum reads on me (#393) but hasn't made those known yet and he should.

Prims is the one who brought my voting pattern up as scummy(#398). I know for a fact that this level of thinking is below him, so it was good to see him admit he might actually be wrong about this(#402).

I had a town read on Paperblade back on D1. Most of his posting dealt with the Vhaltz wagon. He requested a sub about a day before the phase end. I did not particularly care for (#389) but Gaius' later posts read town to me.

Shin in ED1 can be summed up as jumping on the Vhaltz wagon, then being the second Snike vote. He makes a slight Prims scumread in passing, then later claims he thinks prims is town. He shoots (town aligned) ITP Quote. D2 sees him vote Shinori. Shin's posting is notably devoid of a lot of scum reads.

Shinori is a lazy schmuck who needs to exist.

I stand by my finding Vhaltz town from D1, though the fact nobody seems to remember how scummy they thought he was D1. I'm looking at you, YOLO.

So in terms of who I'd vote; I'd currently place Vhaltz in town, YOLO, Gaius and prims are in mid, I'd shoot Kevin on principle, Shinori needs to stop making up excuses for inactivity, Shin reads like he's faking activity, Eurykins rehashes what other people have said and serves it as her own suspicions.

@YOLO; what is your current opinion Vhaltz. Why do you insist Paperblade white knighting Vhaltz is a scum thing?

For now I'll

##Vote: Shin

[Shin]

Hey, I've just gone back to start my final year of uni. I'll try and give things a read over during the afternoon.

[Excellen Browning]

Actually no.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

Consider the threat of lynch the reason to be active, if you will. Making excuses to be inactive is always a bad thing to do.

[Prims]

I'm the person who targeted Shinori - he has to follow my vote today or something bad happens. I targeted Rose's slot to see how the player would handle the situation buuuuuut I don't like Shinori using it as an excuse to not play, all he really has to do is convince me to go for his read and then there's no problem (or vote with me if his preferred lynch isn't happening, if it was happening I would probably vote with him to stop the penalty assuming he wasn't my top scumread).

@Excellen: why don't you consider Shin's content to have many scumreads? his reads seem pretty clear to me. also the reason I don't suspect Vhaltz anymore is the Snike interactions

[Shinori]

Basically I'm persuaded to vote someone, but I don't have to. If I don't vote that person though I get roleblocked.

So basically I'm persuaded.

Which is frankly just silly.

[Shinori]

Fuck effort is hard at the moment.

And yeah what prims said is it.

I still don't like it.

I just want a tldr of the thread cause I'm not rereading the whole thing.

I DID state that and the only thing I was told "You should vote excellen, he's scum" Which is just shitty advice and a shitty argument to someone who literally just joined the game.

I just want to know all of the really big things that have happened, who besides excellen has been a focus of a lot of attention, who has claimed what, you know that stuff.

No one wants to tell me that shit and I'm not going to read the entire 20 pages of thread here so you probably can't expect much from me until I choose to read pages 19-21.

Cause honestly speaking that's probably where I'm going to start.

[Prims]

You could start by reading from the point where Rapier got vigged on D1.

[Zkirsche]

Excellen are you really going to dismiss my entire case and my own personal analysis of your Snike interactions that were free of Prims as salt over a simple vote? Even though I began casing you before that vote? Rofl.

[Zkirsche]

@Shinori claims are currently:

Me miller

Mancer Hated

Ripier Numbers (It is currently 7/2 town/mafia according to said numbers)

Shin ITP remover

Everyone else ???

As for the thread:

-Shin self votes

-Excellen self-implodes over the aforementioned vote.

-Rapier self-implodes regarding Excellen.

-Vhaltz explains the current self vote meta.

-Me and prims case Vhaltz over said meta.

-Me and Vhaltz argue

-Vhaltz cases Snike, Shin follows and I sheep Vhaltz after that.

-Bossanova shoots Rapier. He flipped town.

-Quote claims ITP. Shin insta-vigs ITP.

-We lynch Snike.

-I begin all out attack on Excellen.

-Everyone else ignores Excellen and starts crying about inactives.

[Zkirsche]

Shinori voting Excellen isn't shitty advice he's mafia and you should vote him.

I think Gaius is the next biggest wagon after you, excluding Excellen.