Sacred Stones Mafia: Redux (Game Over)

[BBM]

Votals 2.3 aka the self-voting edition
Clarinets (2): SB, Faerie Knight
Ars Nova (6): Clarinets, Prims, Makaze, Ars Nova, Manix
Strawman (1): Yolo
Yolo (1): Strawman
Not voting (3): Crysta, Shinori, Junko

With 12 alive it takes 7 to hammer. You have roughly 23 hours and 45 minutes until phase end.

[Crysta]

Sure

Prims case is good and I legit forgot about the double vote. It makes sense.

Didn't vote Martha initially because I wasn't confident at all about d1 content and he just stuck out to me the most

Would go Strawman>ars but if he's wigging out then whatever

Mafia is hard

I hate this phone

[Prims]

nova needs to die today after the combined slip + self-vote but i'm down to lynch strawman tomorrow. idk who else the third scum would be except maybe shinori?

[Junk]

okay that's cool.

kind of want to get shinori's thoughts as well but tbh i'm tired of waiting.

##vote ars nova

[BBM]

So you guys gathered around Ars Nova, taking turns poking at him with your various weapons. He tried breaking out and attacking Clarinets, but then he screamed in rage and stabbed himself in the stomach. RIP, at least after you finished him off.

Day 2 End Votals
Clarinets (2): SB, Faerie Knight
Ars Nova (7): Clarinets, Prims, Makaze, Ars Nova, Manix, Junko
Strawman (1): Yolo
Yolo (1): Strawman
Not voting (2): Crysta, Shinori

Ars Nova was Marisa, Town Vanilla.

Night Two has begun.

Edited May 1, 2016 by BBM

[BBM]

I'll let Gaius say when N2 ends, but I imagine it'll be in 23.5 hours?

[Refa]

PASSIVE AGRESSIVE CONFIRMATION BIAS LOL

[ZoesMad]

Sorry for night being around, APs are in 5 days and I wasn't expecting early hammer.

Night 2 ends in 12 hours and 10 minutes from this post, or earlier if everyone submits actions/idles.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lord Gaius

[ZoesMad]

Phase End

[ZoesMad]

The dark rider I foresaw... He was coming for me. Tethys ran as fast as she could for the protection of her fellow mercenaries, but her slender legs weren't quick enough. You wake up to find Manix missing several crucial limbs and organs.

Manix- Tethys, Town Safeguard, Killed Night Two

Once again the bulletin boards have a new message. Great advertising.

Strawman voting yolo over ars at beginning weird as scum? Shinori scum? Feel like just saying random stuff, never follow up. No update read on me, makaze read feel exaggerated, Shinori faerie read based on bad vibes, no content D2 but my fault. Crysta might be be conf town because marth says Oh yeah, I forgot that you were even playing this game. Who are your scumreads and why? Makaze bad to me , town makaze different tone AM/PM2 . Drop ars nova, clarnets, back ars nova when prims case similar to Makaze??? Line up lynch, nova town, kill clarinets

With 10 alive it takes 6 to hammer. You have 71 hours and 50 minutes until phase end.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Lord Gaius

[Prims]

##Vote: Strawman

I agree with Junko's announcement except I think Marth talking about Crysta was just theatrical. Strawman / Shinori / Makaze are all better lynches than Crysta though. I want Makaze to explain why he kept trying to start a counterwagon to Marth at the end of D1. He complained nobody was responded to Marth's claim but he never explained why he himself found Marth's claim good enough to switch off of. Hoping Shinori can post some content today; I'm still put off by him saying he wants a D1 lynch that would get a lot of associative reads while parking on Faerie Knight (who few people were talking about) and having nothing to say about the wagons that were actually big.

[Prims]

Also, Manix's last input before biting it was that Clarinets should never be lynched ever, and he got shot over the claimed masons who wanted Clarinets lynched. Can we please not even start with that wagon today?

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

im dumb

[Prims]

Also I don't agree that Strawman voting yolo over Ars Nova means anything. Scum don't care who they vote as long as town's getting lynched in the end, and scum doesn't need to vote town to get town lynched. I want to press Shinori but I'm OK with Strawman lynch. There are a couple things that give me pause on Strawman being scum though but it's WIFOM so idk if worth talking about as is.

[Crysta]

I'm tired so this is going to be short. Keanu is a good movie btw.

##Vote: Strawman

His Yolo case seems contrived in the same way his explanation for why misrepping was bad, and if he was playacting with his scumbuddy this would probably be the common thread between them. (#329 if you need it) It seems even more redundant if he's actually played with Yolo before but I don't know if he has.

I would like to know if Faerie would consider voting for anyone outside of Yolo and Clarinets and what he thinks about D2; I don't want to lynch either of them.

[SB.]

That lynch sucked. When do scum ever tilt so hard they self-vote without claiming Mafia?

More when I am awake.

[SB.]

After reading it through again I think the shit that happened around the hammer yesterday was just bad rather than scummy but meh.

Also, Manix's last input before biting it was that Clarinets should never be lynched ever, and he got shot over the claimed masons who wanted Clarinets lynched. Can we please not even start with that wagon today?

He was also probably the towniest looking person who wasn't gonna be protected though. I disagree with uh, basically everything you said about Marth clearing him but it might just be confirmation bias since Clarinets fell off the face of the earth yesterday? Not sure.

Gonna change it up for now.

##Vote: Makaze

Case from yesterday still stands and I don't like how he completely ignored it. Step it up.

This game feels kind of stuck.

[Makaze]

After reading it through again I think the shit that happened around the hammer yesterday was just bad rather than scummy but meh.

He was also probably the towniest looking person who wasn't gonna be protected though. I disagree with uh, basically everything you said about Marth clearing him but it might just be confirmation bias since Clarinets fell off the face of the earth yesterday? Not sure.

Gonna change it up for now.

##Vote: Makaze

Case from yesterday still stands and I don't like how he completely ignored it. Step it up.

This game feels kind of stuck.

Assuming you meant this (below), my bad. I forgot in all the Nova drama.

Playing the "wrong townie" angle is way better than the very obvious bus vote though.

@Manix, why out the Mason crumb?

I read over Prims again and now I'm really iffy on him. It felt like he tried to avoid talking about Marth where he could because he was trying to get out of having to vote for him? And it doesn't feel like there's much a flow between his posts beyond his primary suspicion for most of D1 (Clarinets). He kind of awkwardly dropped me and Strawman and then said nothing about us D2 and the pressure vote felt like a "he was trying to pretend he wasn't trying? I'm aware thats horribly worded but idk how else to explain it. Trying too hard to look like he isn't I guess? If Clarinets is scum I can't see Prims scum too though because I don't see why he would ignore Marth there.

Don't think Nova is scum because even when he wasn't voting Marth its pretty easy to see that he was updating his opinion on him as the thread went on yesterday in a way thats not easy to fake. The only thing I really find weird is that he felt a bit jumpy when the votes came in today but I wouldn't lynch him off of it.

I also don't really like Makaze anymore because it feels like he keeps going after these leads that don't go anywhere? It feels like he's abusing the playstyle to get away with the fact that he's not actually posting that much content and his reason for voting me over Marth earlier in the day is horseshit (and his later switch off was bad too). He has (or did have idek) a lot of reads but with the way he's playing it they may as well not exist. Like, look at this post here and notice how his "fully cleared" reads are basically being treated like paper - it feels like he's just trying to act confident and hope nobody questions what he's saying.

Want to read Omega/Junko/Manix again but I'm too lazy to go through the first two ISOs and want an answer to my question first for Manix so I'm going to do other things for a while.

I can't really offer a defense for my leads not going anywhere, but I stand by my reasons until shown, in a way that I can understand, why they are bad reasons. I don't know what else to say. You've played with me before. I always have these kinds of reasons. I think my own way and I don't back down on "shitty" reasons easily. I trust what I think is right until proven wrong. After all, you could be scum trying to take me off the right track. Calling them shit is not going to make me change the reasons I use in the next game either.

The fully cleared reads I was reasonably confident about, but again, people had actual reasons for why they are not cleared. That would be a case where someone called my reasons shit and explained why they were shit in a way I could understand. Strawman I am still reasonably sure is town. I believe pretty strongly in that one. If I'm wrong, then he is an amazing actor and I will accept my defeat, but only after a flip. I've doubted him enough times just to come back to my town read and I don't see a point in debating that further. Clarinets I'm not so sure; I would love to hear this info that about him and when that info came to light.

You may think my votes are erratic but they are always erratic. You'll notice I keep my vote where it is even while discussing a change in my read too. A lot of the time I use my vote as a pressuring tool. People say reaction tests are BS but that's how I do things until I'm shown a better way. My reads for the most part are consistent with some tinfoil hatting here and there but that's par for the course in this game.

I don't like rehashing this kind of stuff because as I said before, bad reasoning is not scummy reasoning. From where I'm standing everything I do makes perfect sense and is a good reason to case someone, even if I am scum. There is no reason for me to push a case I don't think people will believe. It seems perfectly reasonable to me. So, read my ISO. Do you read scum intent? Then case based on intent, not on how horrible my reasons are.

##Vote: Strawman

I agree with Junko's announcement except I think Marth talking about Crysta was just theatrical. Strawman / Shinori / Makaze are all better lynches than Crysta though. I want Makaze to explain why he kept trying to start a counterwagon to Marth at the end of D1. He complained nobody was responded to Marth's claim but he never explained why he himself found Marth's claim good enough to switch off of. Hoping Shinori can post some content today; I'm still put off by him saying he wants a D1 lynch that would get a lot of associative reads while parking on Faerie Knight (who few people were talking about) and having nothing to say about the wagons that were actually big.

On to the real issue: I initially pushed to create a Marth counterwagon to see who would jump off of Marth, and onto who. I didn't want to believe his claim but I couldn't be really sure it was false either so that was my way of testing the waters. Especially when people were just refusing or ignoring my request to comment on the claim. I settled on SB (I believe? I think FK was in there for half a second, not serious) as a counterwagon because I figured that he was someone whose flip would reveal more than his actual content (as reasoned when I made the vote), but when it was clear I couldn't get any new info I switched back to the wagon.

I'm going to be studying for a final today so don't expect a ton of activity but there are two or three lynches I'm okay with today.

Yolo > Clarinets > Crysta

Clarinets lower because of the info Manix claims to have that clears him or something.

##Vote Yolo

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

currently lookin at

makaze/strawman/shinori

im likely missing a piece of the puzzle. i doubt makaze/strawman are buddies but theres def scum between them

[Clarinets]

I don't agree with a Yolo lynch. I read his ISO and his content resembles his usual Town play. I'm going to read Strawman's ISO next.

[Shinori]

Okay so now before I get into anything else, Why the fuck did the lynch happen so early yesterday day phase? Did I miss something? I was back from my weekend vacation I guess you could say and was reading when I noticed we had a hammer. Good to know. Post incoming.

[Shinori]

okay that's cool.

kind of want to get shinori's thoughts as well but tbh i'm tired of waiting.

##vote ars nova

A whole day left and you are tired of waiting? I even specifically said I wouldn't be around. Came back around Sunday afternoon/evening and this shit was all said and done, so obviously you didn't care that much about what I thought.

[BBM]

Votals: 3.1

Shinori (1): Prims
Makaze (1): SB
Strawman (1): Crysta

Not voting (7): Yolo, Clarinets, Makaze, Shinori, Strawman, Faerie Knight, Junko

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to hammer. You have approximately 50 hours and 45 minutes left.

[Shinori]

I'm probably going to be making a chain of posts sorry ahead of time. When I use multiquote I get lazy and I feel like it makes me play worse. SO ANYWAY.

Besides the numbers spec, Ars's case on Clarinets is probably the most convincing case posted by anyone on anyone else so far. I would for sure lynch. One thing I thought about is why a scum Clarinets wouldn't switch over to Marth at the end of the day? The last quote from Ars's post from Clarinets clearly has Clarinets saying that he both gets bad vibes from Marth and knows a FK lynch isn't going to happen. It might look bad to switch to Marth because he is the other wagon (might look like voting Marth just to save himself) but then he had that statement against Marth and with the Marth flip, he would have at least had his vote on scum rather been stuck out on this non-committal gray area that looks even worse.

Yolo: Was already suspicious without the Marth flip but with it is much worse. If anyone's vote is a bus its Yolo's. Literally explained nothing about why he voted Marth. Instead said there's scum between me and junk. Near phase end he sticks with Marth though he never gave or even sheeped someone else's. Right at the end says he's willing to switch.

This is scummy because voting without a case makes you appear to want to lynch someone, but allows you free room of switching on/off in any situation. There's no commitment, there's nothing you've said for anyone to refute or call contrived/fabricated/etc. There's nothing for people to agree with you on, no case for others to sheep or reference (this is important). It does nothing to convince anyone your target is scum, which is the point of the discussion we're supposed to be having. It puts pressure on the target yes, but gives them nothing to respond to which is obviously unhelpful since responses can be very telling.

The offer to switch at the end is suspect because yes sometimes switching to assure a lynch is what town needs, but it pairs negatively with how he gave no reasons for wanting to lynch Marth. He doesn't mention Clarinets at all during D1. Nothing to associate there. He wants to vote Marth but we don't know why so very little to associate there. Its suspicious as hell and and we need to pressure him more about this.

Shinori: Goes a significant amount of D1 with no vote, really only comments on Quote's claim. Repeatedly mentions needing to read catch up.

Has an argument with FK and votes. Doesn't address anything besides FK. Unvotes and never votes again.

This is suspicious just because Shinori's content is completely unrelated to any major wagons or discussion, don't think he really ever interacts with or discusses a read on Marth or any other major wagon. Shinori is also briefly mentioned by Marth here as suspicious but super easily dismissed after Shinori's FK vote in Marth's post here. It just feels dropped too easily by Marth.

Nova: Makaze's case is strong from the perspective of Nova's posts on Marth. But I don't see the scum aspects of Marth's 2 mentions of Nova. I would be ok with a Nova lynch, but not before a Yolo.

##Vote: Yoloswag

I should leave it at that and not get annoyed and respond to a couple of things but thats super not fun so.

@bold: lol Manix. You do not know the reality of the situation. The only one who knows both my alignment and Marth's is me (and all of Marth's buddies but they wouldn't know if I were town or third party if it exists so lets ignore this technicality). Therefore the only one who knows the "reality of the situation" between Marth and I's D1 interaction is Me (and Marth and his buddies but w/e). What you have is your own interpretation of a situation. Not at all reality.

I actually thought about it real hard. But I decided to not change my vote over his claim because flavorspec is flavorspec and not reliable.

And if you say "then why did you even mention it?" it was because someone asked my opinions on the claims so I gave it.

I can agree/mimic with Straws thoughts on yolo honestly, but i may be partially biaesd. I've never been a fan of yolo's playstyle during mafia. I can never get a good read of it and he's always been someone I dislike attempting to read. The statements mentioned here however are all thoughts I can agree with.

As for the this post towards me: I don't believe I actually stated a whole lot about needing to catch up as I was there for a bit of the day phase and posted on the things that sparked my interest. And actually I had a lot of thoughts on clarinets who seemed to be a heavy lynch target for multiple people throughout the day. And to be honest I didn't even know marth said anything about me, guess that's my fault. And I will say I didn't really say much regarding the Marth case at all as I wasn't sure on it. I could have stated that but that's not any better, so I just said nothing.

[Strawman]

I don't agree with a Yolo lynch. I read his ISO and his content resembles his usual Town play. I'm going to read Strawman's ISO next.

well I can't say I've played with him more than once before, but I went and compared to what he had in ODGUATMAS where he was Town and at least in that game he gave reasons as to why he found the people he voted scummy.

this game has consistently been either not giving a case at all, or giving reasons to find other people scummy, then voting someone else.