Ars Nova Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 For what it's worth, this is the bit Prims was talking about. "If Clarinets is scum," Marth + 1 = 2 "then another one is for sure on Marth's wagon" + 1 = 3 "and the last one probably is too" + 1 = 4 You implied there are four scum and that Clarinets is one of those four scum. Prims is right to question you. ...Oh. Brb retaking math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Okay, I've reread the case on Clarinets and am reassured that it has the same level of reasoning as my case on Nova for the same reasons as my case on Nova. I could go either way on this lynch. If Clarinets flips scum then Nova is cleared and we get rid of a scum doublevoter, which is a substantial boon for town. But if Clarinets flips town, then Nova is confirmed scum and we got rid of a town doublevoter. We don't have much to lose either way we go. Thoughts (from not Nova)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 The reason why I say the same reasons: Marth distanced from Clarinets by claiming to be for a Clarinets lynch while going after Strawman. Nova distanced from Marth by claiming for be for a Marth lynch while going after Clarinets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Besides the numbers spec, Ars's case on Clarinets is probably the most convincing case posted by anyone on anyone else so far. I would for sure lynch. One thing I thought about is why a scum Clarinets wouldn't switch over to Marth at the end of the day? The last quote from Ars's post from Clarinets clearly has Clarinets saying that he both gets bad vibes from Marth and knows a FK lynch isn't going to happen. It might look bad to switch to Marth because he is the other wagon (might look like voting Marth just to save himself) but then he had that statement against Marth and with the Marth flip, he would have at least had his vote on scum rather been stuck out on this non-committal gray area that looks even worse. Yolo: Was already suspicious without the Marth flip but with it is much worse. If anyone's vote is a bus its Yolo's. Literally explained nothing about why he voted Marth. Instead said there's scum between me and junk. Near phase end he sticks with Marth though he never gave or even sheeped someone else's. Right at the end says he's willing to switch. This is scummy because voting without a case makes you appear to want to lynch someone, but allows you free room of switching on/off in any situation. There's no commitment, there's nothing you've said for anyone to refute or call contrived/fabricated/etc. There's nothing for people to agree with you on, no case for others to sheep or reference (this is important). It does nothing to convince anyone your target is scum, which is the point of the discussion we're supposed to be having. It puts pressure on the target yes, but gives them nothing to respond to which is obviously unhelpful since responses can be very telling. The offer to switch at the end is suspect because yes sometimes switching to assure a lynch is what town needs, but it pairs negatively with how he gave no reasons for wanting to lynch Marth. He doesn't mention Clarinets at all during D1. Nothing to associate there. He wants to vote Marth but we don't know why so very little to associate there. Its suspicious as hell and and we need to pressure him more about this. Shinori: Goes a significant amount of D1 with no vote, really only comments on Quote's claim. Repeatedly mentions needing to read catch up. Has an argument with FK and votes. Doesn't address anything besides FK. Unvotes and never votes again. This is suspicious just because Shinori's content is completely unrelated to any major wagons or discussion, don't think he really ever interacts with or discusses a read on Marth or any other major wagon. Shinori is also briefly mentioned by Marth here as suspicious but super easily dismissed after Shinori's FK vote in Marth's post here. It just feels dropped too easily by Marth. Nova: Makaze's case is strong from the perspective of Nova's posts on Marth. But I don't see the scum aspects of Marth's 2 mentions of Nova. I would be ok with a Nova lynch, but not before a Yolo. ##Vote: Yoloswag I should leave it at that and not get annoyed and respond to a couple of things but thats super not fun so. and this post is honestly damning in that regard, because strawman is trying to throw us away from the reality of the situation. @bold: lol Manix. You do not know the reality of the situation. The only one who knows both my alignment and Marth's is me (and all of Marth's buddies but they wouldn't know if I were town or third party if it exists so lets ignore this technicality). Therefore the only one who knows the "reality of the situation" between Marth and I's D1 interaction is Me (and Marth and his buddies but w/e). What you have is your own interpretation of a situation. Not at all reality. interesting case, made me go back and reread and one key thing that strawman does that really makes it even worse is strawman wants to throw marth's lynch on ...flavorspec??? wut I actually thought about it real hard. But I decided to not change my vote over his claim because flavorspec is flavorspec and not reliable. And if you say "then why did you even mention it?" it was because someone asked my opinions on the claims so I gave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Makaze, I'll post content when I post content. Since you hate when people promise content I won't tell you when though!!!! But today hasn't been a mafia day for me. It has been a shitposting day though. Also my Ars Nova vote was just a placeholder to see how he'd respond to the rising pressure, though Makaze's case on him seems sensible to me and I had been thinking the same. I'm uncertain whether I'd rather lynch him or Clarinets and I'll have to re-read to decide. ##Unvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
🔥YOLOSWAG🔥 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 After much debate, argument, more argument, and maybe down thing that looks like consensus(?), the town made a bold move in lynching Marth. "No please it's me the prince of Jehanna can't you see?!? Just as the words were coming out of his mouth, his illusion flickered, and the physique of an old insidious man peered at them where the unlucky myrmidon had just been. Town no longer hesitated and wrapped the noose around the traitor.Day One End VotalsStrawman (1): MarthClarinets (3): Ars Nova, Prims, QuoteMarth (8): Strawman, Junko, Yolo, Crysta, SB, Makaze, Manix, Prims HammerYolo (1): Faerie KnightFaerie Knight (2): ClarinetsNot Voting: ShinoriMarth- Riev, Mafia Informed Hijacker.Night One has begun, and ends in 24 hours and 9 minutes.Quoting for reference. There's at least one partner off the wagon. Pointing this out to narrow the list in time.And now strawman votes me. Lol @ my scumreads immediately slapping me on their scumlists. How convenient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ars Nova Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Wow now I realize how douchey I sound when I say I'm fishing for reactions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ars Nova Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 And now strawman votes me. Lol @ my scumreads immediately slapping me on their scumlists. How convenient I hope you're not including me in that camp because I 100% beat you to it, poser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Immediately is probably the wrong choice of word there for you. You were there D1 also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I still feel good about Strawman's tone and content... I just have trouble believing he's this good at being scum.@Strawman: Can we count on you to consolidate on Clarinets or Nova if Yolo doesn't pan out?(FWIW Yolo is still on my scum list, I will consolidate that lynch before a Clarinets one.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I'm tempted to half lynch clarinets i'll not lie lol because even if he is town I feel this would help get better associatives dramatically, Although never assume anything is confirmed off of that, can be a dangerous assumption. @strawman, how come yolo over clarinets tho? Also sorry but I'm having trouble buying that explanation since I don't see why you could have mentioned that on D1 since you implied you found Marth town totally? moving yolo from slight town to null since I think I remember a game where he coasted the entire time and was scum, Prims reaction test pretty lame tbh since he doesn't actually say anything about ars nova's response. Feels like padding out content although we'll see later when he does post content. As of right now I would be fine with a clarinets,strawman, or prims lynch, i'd consolidate on yolo. Not really feeling the ars nova lynch atm, Tone feels townie to me. Shinori null, did not have much activity in AM/PM 2 either. ##unvote ## vote clarinets pretty tired of thinking and I feel like this would be the best lynch even if it was a town flip. Hopefully this pressure will also actually spur him to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 @Junko: They're about the same but I think Yolo needs the pressure more. People have been both vocal and voting for me/nova/clarinets. People are decently vocal about yolo, but the votes haven't been there towards him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 tfw everyone starts looking scummy since the last time i posted. mafia sux via still wants an ars lynch, they would also be okay with a clarinets lynch for the info/removing the distraction crysta is still awol, what's the deal there. i almost want to lynch there because her d1 content wasn't like, the most townie stuff ever. can probably be easily swayed on this though strawman's response doesn't really alleviate any concerns. the whole "ars' case on clarinets is good, but i'd still consider lynching him" is one of the biggest fencesits i've seen in a while. not convinced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Also @Junko: I said flavorspec wanted me to believe his claim. I'm arguing semantics at this point, but me admitting flavorspec was meant to imply a particularly unreliable perspective. And even with hindsight, I stick to believing his claim from that perspective more than Clarinets'. @Manix: Its not unreasonable that someone can both be scummy and make a strong case against someone else as scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 @Manix: Its not unreasonable that someone can both be scummy and make a strong case against someone else as scum.this is true, but it's harder for scum to keep a good case on townies since interactions become harder to keep pushing as scum/scum with flips. so more often those strong cases either crumble, or are on other scum in which case you get bussing. hope this makes sense with why it's not really a good idea to listen to people you want to lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoesMad Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Crysta has been prodded. Votals later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 What I thought was going to be a 20-something hour week was instead a 39-hour week so that’s why I’ve been scarce. It’ll get better after the weekend, though, and hopefully I won’t have to continue to post stuff at 4 AM. I'm no longer adamantly against a Clarinets lynch. The dithering around at deadline looks bad and the only true content he provides is his post #387 which is just stating two of Marth’s wall posts are similar to each other and drawing no conclusion from it. Add the role prodding he does to Faerie on top of that - which he seems much more focused on than anything else - and it appears more scummy than just terrible town play. Misreading him initially and the sheeping aside, I can't tell if Faerie’s reads are evolving on anyone else outside of Yolo. Or if he even has them. He doesn’t need to post a read list, but I would like him to remedy this and contribute to the game outside of simply voting Yolo and riding off into the sunset. He and Clarinets aren't scum buddies, though. Ars is hard to read and I had him as a null for most of D1. I can see why Quote would suspect him being scum lurky because most of his content seems to be reacting instead of scum hunting, but his last two posts have the sort of analysis I would expect from a townie. It looks like he’s had the Clarinets/Marth scumteam in his head ever since Marth hopped off the Clarinets wagon so I don’t find it particularly damning that he was focused on them? I didn’t really find Makaze’s case that strong tbh. I’ll probably re-read it again tomorrow. I suspect Manix means Marth was pointing out what he knew Strawman was doing when he alleged he was “scum exaggerating small things”? Thing is townies can do that, too, and I can see scum noticing that. I didn’t think Strawman’s reaction to Marth felt unnatural. The comment about Marth’s flavor being convincing is weird but I read it as Strawman didn’t actually invest much in it; it would be more worrisome if he did switch just because of flavorspec. This is more of a gut feeling than a logical argument against it, but it feels like it’s assuming a lot of what Strawman may be thinking to begin with. This is getting long and there’s not much else to say which doesn’t sound like filler. Junko’s wishy-washiness has already been noted and I might have to look through his iso more thoroughly but tonight (or rather morning) isn’t going to be that night. I have a feeling Yolo’s vagueness will continue to be a source of frustration and I can’t really move him out of the null column until this changes. Shinori’s not really here and his content doesn’t sway me one way or the other yet. I can’t see Prims going “hey guys you can lynch me if you can’t agree to lynch anyone else” as scum but maybe it’s a gambit or something (doubt it really). And I’m tired and should probably sleep; can’t be assed to look at the votals so I’m not voting yet either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 bitch you can't prod me i'm already here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
🔥YOLOSWAG🔥 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Strawman or Nova today. If y'all decide to lynch me today then spend the next 2 days steamrolling them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ars Nova Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I cant see Prims going hey guys you can lynch me if you cant agree to lynch anyone else as scum but maybe its a gambit or something (doubt it really). This is the thing I can't reconcile in my head. Either he's scum who made a bold move D1, or he's town who's making bad moves today. I don't think he's dumb, but I can't imagine he's that brave either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Based on my interactions with Prims in other games, this is the scummiest and least rational I've seen him act by miles. He is always weird, but not this weird. I always think he is scum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 That is to say, I'd lynch him, but only if there overwhelming support for it. If he is scum right now then I think he has been careful to give away as little info as possible. Better to lynch more active scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) Day 2: Automated Votals from #444 to #523 Clarinets (3): Ars Nova, SB, Faerie Knight Strawman (2): Manix, Yolo Ars Nova (1): Makaze Yolo (1): Strawman Not voting (6): Crysta, Prims, Shinori, Junko, Clarinets Phase ends in 35h40m. Vote history: Junko (3): Prims -> Strawman -> Unvote Manix (1): Strawman Makaze (1): Ars Nova Prims (2): Ars Nova -> Unvote Yolo (2): Ars Nova -> Strawman Ars Nova (1): Clarinets SB (1): Clarinets Strawman (1): Yolo <Beta v0.1.8> Edited April 30, 2016 by Makaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 If Prims doesn't provide real content by, say, 5 PM (EST) tomorrow (10 hours to phase end) is everyone okay with lynching him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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