Sacred Stones Mafia: Redux (Game Over)

[Makaze]

I am now about 110% sure Nova is Mafia. Sorry buddy.

People fully cleared by Marth's flip are Strawman (waiting to hear a case before deciding) and Clarinets. If you disagree you'd better have a damn good reason for it, and it better not be "Marth is smart enough to hard bus D1 before his own wagon even forms in case he gets lynched D1".

There is a ton of damning evidence between Marth/Nova. On Marth's side, he soft defended Nova without ever stating a read about him even though Nova had voted him and called him a top scum read already. I found every post where he mentioned Nova. There isn't much, but a picture forms.

[spoiler=Marth]

Yeaaahhh, I'm definitely keeping my vote on clarinets because his last post looks like scum not interested in contributing to discussion and vocally evading it.

@makaze: shouldn't it be obvious to you, though? Anyone would assume that Nova was town and wouldn't question your read because whatever he did would be hard to fake as scum.

I mentioned a long time ago that I asked about numbers because something had made me start thinking in terms of scum team instead of scum individually. This is what I meant.

Actually, I've been trying to post, but they keep getting eaten up. Gg

I feel like every time I think I've nabbed scum, someone else shows up in thread and posts scummy content.

Manix is right about clarinets and about last game: freyjadour pulled off the same stuff in the last game and I (well I was an unofficial hydra with refa, so he) gave him a pass for being newbtown who always posts in a scummy way. But then he flipped scum, so I don't want to give clarinets pass for that. Also the Nova vote is bad because he could've voted Manix or I for the same reason, so why pick Nova?

SB is scummy too for that Manix vote because it feels like its making a mountain of a molehill (or did the molehill even exist?) It reads as "I don't have a problem with what you did but HOW you did it even though it was a one liner and this is grasping a lot but I NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING HERE!"

I was gonna be like "junko is wishy washy about his SB read and is not doing anything about it and the tone of his strawman case is under confident!" But then the CASE IS ACTUALLY GOOD! Definitely getting AMPM2 vibes here and his content want good uptil then anyway.

Also, the makaze vote is scummy IMO.

##unvote ##vote: strawman

Same reasons for scum reading SB, but worse. "You town read me or are reading me as null! Which I think if pointless! But I don't know why scum would do that! Yet I'm gonna scum read you anyway!"

Says that the posts don't show progression but doesn't show a)how

B) why that's scummy

C) how whatever he had pointed out about makaze is related to this.

More in my next post.

Ahhhhh every time I think I've finally nabbed scum, someone else shows up in this thread and posts scummy content. -.-

Manix is right about Clarinets and about last game: Freyjadour pulled off the same stuff in the last game and I(well I was an unofficial hydra with Refa, so he) gave him a pass for being newbtown who always posts in a scummy way. THEN he flipped mafia. I don't really want to give Clarinets a pass after that. Also that Ars Nova vote is really weak when he could vote Manix or I for the same reasons.

@Quote: You may defend Clarinets with reasons like him not getting any benefit doing that as scum, but there's no reason for town to do that too! I mean, since it was obvious that there was not much to comment on in the thread, why make it known that you won't do anything because of that? Seems 'obvious' in a very unnecessary way. I don't know how to word this well but I totally get what Manix is saying.

SB is scummy too for that Manix vote because it feels like its making a mountain out of a molehill(or did the molehill even exist?) It reads as "I don't have a problem with what you did but HOW you did it even though it was a one-liner and this is grasping a lot but I NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING HERE!"

Then I was gonna be like "Junko is wishy washy about his SB read and is not doing anything about it and the tone of his Strawman case feels very underconfident!" but then HIS STRAWMAN CASE IS GOOD! Definitely getting AMPM2 vibes from Strawman here. The content Strawman had posted uptil then did not show any intent in contributing to the progress of discussion, but with his Makaze vote, I'm content with this:

##Unvote ##Vote:Strawman

Same reasons for me scumreading SB, but worse. "You townread me or are reading me null! Which I think is pointless! But I don't know why scum would do that! Yet I'm gonna scumread you anyway!" Says that posts don't show progression but doesn't show a)how b)why that's scummy c)How whatever he has pointed out about Makaze is related to this.

---

On Nova's side, he claimed to be for a Marth lynch and voted him early on. But as soon as he saw another target he took it and stuck with it to the end. (Clarinets. Notice he is cleared by this flip?) While casing Marth/Clarinets and pushing people to choose between them, he implicitly tied Marth and Clarinets together as a scum team. He even said that he would lock in Marth if Clarinets flipped scum. This is the most damning of all. Nova has a lot of content against Marth, but he was riding on Clarinets' flip and never followed up on his Marth read despite Marth not paying him any mind the whole time Nova was casing him.

[spoiler=Nova]

So right away not sure how I feel about commie

COULD be innocent prodding... Could be a really weak fishing attempt. I dunno.

Hey bby ;) Can't help but notice you're town, wanna buddy up?

-1 Tryhard

-5 Answering questions not addressed to you

##Vote: Marthnificence Inmarthnate

(That's the Marth guy right)

Literally the next post:

Belay that, missed this post

##Unvote

##Vote: Clarinets

"Ask me questions I need to get cleared"

Uhh I don't automatically wanna kill you this game so this is the best chance you'll get to work w/ me?

Cuz I'm a reckless sumbitch

Don't worry, Marth's not clear; Clarinets is just SUPER not clear

Listen the last time I scumlocked you you scumlocked me back and we were both town I'd rather every game we play together not be marked by a suicide pact

ughhhh haven't changed my mind on Clarinets but I'm reeeeally getting antsy about Marth not posting for several pages

Also that votal's throwin' me off hasn't Manix voted? And who's the third guy on me? Or is the tally wrong?

I have an honest question that I cannot answer from inference and haven't the patience to verify by combing the Mafia section soooo who's my biggest townreadddd...

PRIMS

Given his behavior, is Marth the kinda guy who's gutsy enough to throw on a vote for his scumbud early on but too knock-knee'd to follow through 'til deadline

If not then I have a choice to make

It's refreshing to not be the center of the townado for once

Reeeeally not jivin' with the SB wagon. Bandies lookin ULTRA sus rn. (bandies is bandwagoners I just made it up cuz I'm a trendsetter)

SB, give me two solid reads: Clarinets & Marth. Lay it on the line. If you had to pick between them, which one dies today?

Oh don't worry, I have plenty to go on besides that

How 'bout the fact that the 'content' you're so proud of providing this game is mostly hollow yes-manning and insubstantial half-read fluff

How 'bout the inconsistency with your push targets and questions

How 'bout the fact that Marth, not looking so hot himself, harmlessly bounced off you as though trying to say "No same teamsies"

The unsportsmanlike conduct just destroys all remorse I may've had for locking you in

Notice how he locked Clarinets in based on a Marth associative, not the other way around?

I think there's plenty to be had. I'd be repeating myself to talk about his interactions with Marth, but I'd also be interested to see Manix and Via's reactions. Lotta folks have weighed in on the orchestra seat-filler today, what more info are you out for?

Prims, dunno if you saw but I had a question for you earlier, I'll summarize: Clarinets/Marth scumbuds, y/n?

Wow can't believe we still FoS in this day and age

Uhh I'm actually voting one right now. And I did engage Mak and Prims (Marth isn't fuggen here so I can't)

Fair enough but if Oboe DOES flip scum I am gonna be hot-glued to Marth unless somebody fucks my mind off with some spectacular reinterpretation of their interactions

He doubles down on the tied read while clearly expressing expectation for a Clarinets flip. I strongly believe he was hedging his bets on Clarinets going down, flipping Town, and clearing Marth in the process by association.

Then he made a promise he knew he couldn't follow up on without a hammer.

Welp none of this makes me feel any better about it

And I haven't commented on it because there's not... really anything to say? It's an easy claim and essentially means nothing. That and there's been no follow-up from him since, despite still being the top wagon and having been asked a follow-up question. If there remains no follow-up I will absolutely switch over

##Vote Ars Nova

[Makaze]

Fwiw I can potentially see the reasoning behind Marth/Nova/Strawman team.

Also my case against Nova here is on top of all of the individual scum pings I mentioned in #311/#312.

[Strawman]

Ok I get that when you bus your buddy they should act in a believable/natural manner.

but in what world was my reaction to Marth's vote on me a reaction to a bus from my buddy?

[Makaze]

Ok I get that when you bus your buddy they should act in a believable/natural manner.

but in what world was my reaction to Marth's vote on me a reaction to a bus from my buddy?

The best defense you can offer is telling us who is scum if it is not you, frankly.

[Grace]

reasons why strawman was probably a bus:

start of this post is a huge amount of theatrics for basically no real reason, and the logic is weak enough but also strangely accurate in the way that scum knows scum and can case based on things that they know.

after that, marf parks on strawman when strawman's not ever really going to be an actual wagon, so there's no risk in trying to distance himself from strawman in that way. if you read their interactions on the premise of them trying to distance each other in a mutual agreement, it seems rather plain to see, imo.

Ok I get that when you bus your buddy they should act in a believable/natural manner.

but in what world was my reaction to Marth's vote on me a reaction to a bus from my buddy?

and this post is honestly damning in that regard, because strawman is trying to throw us away from the reality of the situation.

i could go on. strawman's content is also super lacking and the interactions with marf are staged as hell.

[Grace]

picked out that post from iso, op

got cut, worth anyway

[Makaze]

reasons why strawman was probably a bus:

start of this post is a huge amount of theatrics for basically no real reason, and the logic is weak enough but also strangely accurate in the way that scum knows scum and can case based on things that they know.

after that, marf parks on strawman when strawman's not ever really going to be an actual wagon, so there's no risk in trying to distance himself from strawman in that way. if you read their interactions on the premise of them trying to distance each other in a mutual agreement, it seems rather plain to see, imo.

and this post is honestly damning in that regard, because strawman is trying to throw us away from the reality of the situation.

i could go on. strawman's content is also super lacking and the interactions with marf are staged as hell.

I get it... So you're arguing that he would never have gone after Strawman if that lynch were actually happening?

I wait on Strawman's scum case then.

[Grace]

via also wants people to know that they think ars is scum.

[Makaze]

Almost forgot: I made a script during the Night because having to open each post for ISOs was terrible. Very terrible. It lets you click the MultiQuote button from the Search Results page.

[Junk]

interesting case, made me go back and reread and one key thing that strawman does that really makes it even worse is strawman wants to throw marth's lynch on ...flavorspec??? wut

i'm going to sheep both makaze's and manix's cases because they give me more confidence than prims read I also did forget to consider that prims role thing although I still would like prims to respond to my points.

Currently Strawman is equal to Ars Nova.

##vote strawman

voting strawman because that marth not wanting to lynch reasoning seems like WTF???

guess that's what i get for not really looking into things and thinking strawman is townie because marth voted him early lol and vice versa.

[Ars Nova]

So you've just given up trying to avoid tunneling me, have ye Makenzie?

I have to go to sleep but I feel it bears mentioning that Marth was double-hammered by the time I had a post ready switching my vote

That's it for now, will tell you how wrong you are about Clarinets in the morning

[Clarinets]

Speaking of Clarinets, I unfortunately can't post my thoughts this morning.

[Prims]

##Vote: Ars Nova

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##vote nova

[Grace]

ok, cool votes

not even sure.

[Makaze]

##Vote: Ars Nova

##vote nova

Would you lynch Strawman instead?

Who is next on your list?

[ZoesMad]

2.1 aka you killed Quote you bastards

Ars Nova (3): Makaze, Prims, Yolo

Strawman (2): Manix, Junko

Not Voting: Shinori, Crysta, Clarinets, SB, Ars Nova, Strawman, Faerie Knight

With 12 alive it takes 7 to hammer. You have approximately 60 hours and 30 minutes until phase end.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Strawman can go too. I still think there's scum between him/commie and it's likely him. Past him/nova it's probably some sleeper scum that'll be revealed in time

[Ars Nova]

Right, so. If you want me dead, you want Clarinets dead more. Here's why. Quotes are spoiler'd for readability.

[spoiler=#90]

Yeaaahhh, I'm definitely keeping my vote on clarinets because his last post looks like scum not interested in contributing to discussion and vocally evading it.

@makaze: shouldn't it be obvious to you, though? Anyone would assume that Nova was town and wouldn't question your read because whatever he did would be hard to fake as scum.

So two important things are happening here. Marth turns an RVS into a real vote and more or less hard townleans me. The latter is especially important because it informs everything you read from here on out. Would Marth openly defend his scumbuddy this early in D1? I don't know a damn thing about the man or his meta, but if you really think he'd open with such a fool move methinks you give him too little credit. He may've been the first lynch but that doesn't mean he's an idiot.

His commitment to lynching Clarinets here will also be important for later.

[spoiler=#159]

Ahhhhh every time I think I've finally nabbed scum, someone else shows up in this thread and posts scummy content. -.-

Manix is right about Clarinets and about last game: Freyjadour pulled off the same stuff in the last game and I(well I was an unofficial hydra with Refa, so he) gave him a pass for being newbtown who always posts in a scummy way. THEN he flipped mafia. I don't really want to give Clarinets a pass after that. Also that Ars Nova vote is really weak when he could vote Manix or I for the same reasons.

@Quote: You may defend Clarinets with reasons like him not getting any benefit doing that as scum, but there's no reason for town to do that too! I mean, since it was obvious that there was not much to comment on in the thread, why make it known that you won't do anything because of that? Seems 'obvious' in a very unnecessary way. I don't know how to word this well but I totally get what Manix is saying.

SB is scummy too for that Manix vote because it feels like its making a mountain out of a molehill(or did the molehill even exist?) It reads as "I don't have a problem with what you did but HOW you did it even though it was a one-liner and this is grasping a lot but I NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING HERE!"

Then I was gonna be like "Junko is wishy washy about his SB read and is not doing anything about it and the tone of his Strawman case feels very underconfident!" but then HIS STRAWMAN CASE IS GOOD! Definitely getting AMPM2 vibes from Strawman here. The content Strawman had posted uptil then did not show any intent in contributing to the progress of discussion, but with his Makaze vote, I'm content with this:

##Unvote ##Vote:Strawman

Same reasons for me scumreading SB, but worse. "You townread me or are reading me null! Which I think is pointless! But I don't know why scum would do that! Yet I'm gonna scumread you anyway!" Says that posts don't show progression but doesn't show a)how b)why that's scummy c)How whatever he has pointed out about Makaze is related to this.

THIS is where it gets interesting. So he votes for Clarinets early on, and even now takes pains to emphasize Clarinets is on his suspect list while quietly sliding off of him and onto other "higher priority" reads. This rings of a classic distancing play; you try to walk the tightrope of acknowledging your teammate's existence without landing them in the hot seat. The problem is that, despite agreeing with all the points raised about Clarinets, Marth never really gives justification for switching off. He also starts to talk about it less and less as time goes on. He just throws shade in random directions, then hops outta the orchestra and into the cornfields.

I acknowledge that he also casts aspersions on voting for me. This is damning if you're reading it that way. But consider again: Would he have openly defended me so early on? Because you need to make that assumption for this to gel.

[spoiler=#326]

Honestly, Strawman, I'm not satisfied with your justification of your Makaze vote, so I'm going to keep my vote on you.

You say my vote on you is a misrep, but why is that scummy? Did I have a better read on someone else that I should've pursued? Also Shinori has a vote on FK, so you're not reading the thread properly.

You acknowledge that two out of the three posts by Makaze about his townread on you are responses to other players. Which means you're making a big deal out of only one post by Makaze! Why is this the only reason for you to vote him at that time? This is suspicious! Honestly sounds like scum exaggerating small things!

Also don't really like the OMGUS vote. I mean if its misrep ok but what does scum!me get from doing this?

tl;dr: Your only scumhunting content is related to Makaze. Your Makaze case is graspy AF. Your case on me is a defensive reaction to my vote on you. This is scummy.

SB is also a lynch I'm down with. He's not as bad as Strawman but on top of his ED1 stuff, his stance on me is waffly. Statements like " I think Marth's vote is weird at a glance but don't have time to look at it properly." show that he's not willing to commit to a read on me just yet. There's also that one point where he mentions how he feels I had more on him than Strawman but didn't vote him but then he votes Strawman for the same reasons. Ofc he acknowledges it then that those were probably what I was pointing towards.

Faerie Knight is one of those people I'd be down to turbolynch if we somehow don't agree to lynch anyone else today. Throwing dirt at the double voter SOLELY BECAUSE OF THE ROLE but not voting him is sketchy.

Clarinets is not at the top of my lynch priority atm. I agree with Prims' points against him though. Speaking of which, @Prims: Yeah, me saying "We should not give Clarinets a pass" is a response to people saying that scum!Clarinets wouldn't be able to pull of that kind of stuff ED1. It doesn't mean that he is the strongest scumread at that time, and as you can see in this post, he isn't my strongest scumread even now.

The double voter claim is null, anyway. It seems very silly to get some kind of read based on the claim, lol.

Shinori's FK vote makes me feel better about him, I agree with that logic and its definitely sound. Him being emotional about Quote's claim was scummy but Emonori can be of any alignment. Usually when he's scum and gets mad, he tries to take control of the discussion, which I didn't see him do then, so not a scumread atm.

Strawman>SB>Clarinets.

Again, Marth is putting people between himself and Clarinets, still insisting that he's not cleared but talking about it less and less and giving him more and more time to live. It's not like Clarinets disappeared, or stopped being scummy. So what happened? As for Marth's reaction to the claim, my gut tells me he'd want to talk about it more if Clarinets wasn't on his team. Think about it, if they're same team then the claim wouldn't come as a surprise to Marth at all. Just a hunch though, not hedging my bets on it.

Now you've heard Marth talk about Clarinets. But let's hear Clarinets talk about Marth:

[spoiler=#110]

Each quote is small this time are you proud of me Bluedoom

First of all, Makaze reads as very Townlike to me. Their content reads as genuine and Townlike, I like how they ask a lot of questions. They don't seem to have played Mafia in a while (I haven't seen them in any recent games) so I don't know if they'd be able to fake that content as scum.

RVS or serious? If the latter, could you explain the thought process behind it?

The last couple games I've been lynched or fos'd for providing little and lackluster content. I'd rather that didn't happen again.

This is not a scumtell. I have done this multiple times on Mafiascum as Town and have seen numerous people do it.

Do you mean forced? Because otherwise that just seems like Makaze's posting style.

Quote said only non-kill actions don't go through, so I'd assume yes.

and I forgot to post something, so you get even more content from me once I head back to page 5! Already more content than Kirby Mafia 2, are you proud Prims?

See it in there? He asks Yolo why the vote for Marth. THAT is something I can see scum doing for a bud: not an open defense of the votee, but it calls attention and scrutiny to the voter. It's safe. It's not a commitment.

[spoiler=#183]

Not really feeling my Ars Nova buddying case anymore, it's likely a joke

I see.

That isn't what he's doing. He's ignoring you about his claim, presumably because he knows he can't really defend himself over it until after it's used.

Ars literally quoted either your or Marth's reasoning and gave nothing else other than a vote.

I liked the questions you posted, they're relevant and productive.

It's not a mod error ;D

Thanks.

Hey hey hey, I may have reads the entire game disagrees with, but I'm not basically pushing for people not to vote until we're sure who scum is during Day One.

This is my thoughts on Shinori as well.

Makes sense. How has your view on that post changed now that you know it wasn't a reaction test?

I think he meant that he was reading Manix as Town, and then got suspicious over the 'reaction test'.

I will ISO SB next.

Some harmless bickering and an empty nod.

[spoiler=#309]

General reads list so far, from town to scum:

TOWN

Quote

Prims

Makaze

Whoever I forgot to include

NULL

livelystone13 (Town lean)

Shinori (Scum lean)

SCUM

SB

Ars Nova

Faerie Knight

I'd write reasons but I don't really have much time right now.

Note the absence of a certain someone on this list. Love how he adds "Whoever I forgot" to the Town list though, nice way to leave the door open.

[spoiler=#380]

Marth's claim is giving me bad vibes, I'm struggling to describe the reason though. I'm feeling better about SB as well. And Faerie Knight unfortunately isn't getting lynched any time soon.

Which means I have to reread. whyyyyyyyyyyyy

Oh my god this is so plainly writing a check for Marth's flip. Note that he never commits to a vote either. Doesn't commit to much of anything for that matter. At least I didn't say "Shit, I can't vote off the major wagons? Ughhh h/o lemme reread."

So explain to me how he's cleared again?

##Vote: Clarinets

These are probably the greatest lengths I'll take to defend myself, I don't see the point holding up the game debating how scummy I am. I know how I play: I'm a shit-tier scumhunter and I like to fuck with people earlygame, not a good combo. At least give me a little time, I've got another post coming with a more complete read list but I wanted this post to stand alone for posterity.

[Ars Nova]

SNERK, post-erity :'D

[SB.]

##Vote: Clarinets

I didn't actually read that post but I'm sheeping it.

[SB.]

Realtalk Clarinets is still individually scummy from yesterday and completely ignored Marth and Marth himself only brought him up as a passing scumread that he never pursued. Also he spent most of the end of phase shit trying to work out what the relation between me and Faerie is (still not telling you're all losers) instead of doing anything relevant like Helping To Lynch Marth.

Longer post coming in a minute.

[SB.]

Junko, do you think Clarinets' claim is weird?

[SB.]

Also the fact that Marth was lurking near phase end without posting anything besides "fuck" when he got lynched kind of makes you wonder why he wasn't trying to push the Clarinets counterwagon.

[SB.]

On second thought I'm too lazy to full reread atm but I checked back on Strawman earlier and while I can see why people think Strawman/Marth could be a horrible bus, I don't think I can see Marth rushing to vote scum!Strawman with a case that bad. Idk if I'm biased because of my position but it felt like Marth was trying very hard not to bus just due to the quality of his cases.