Pokémon uPick Mafia - Day 4

[Sunwoo]

Boron, I mean that you're finding it hard to scumread anyone atm. If Manix and crysta flipped town, how would your reads change?

Would your townreads change? Would some people be more likely to flip scum based on their association with these two?

Oh, that's what you mean.

If Manix flipped town: Shin (mostly after the last few posts), Paperblade (he voted Manix, but for some reason seems to be pushing it less? Something to look at if Manix did flip town), and Crysta (associative stuff). I actually don't have a problem with Prims, he is pushing the Manix case and is really making his stance clear. I don't think he'd do that as scum.

If Crysta flipped town: Shin (expressed suspicion of her but never actually voted her, might read as trying to avoid committing to a read on her), Manix (associative stuff), maybe Prims?

There's more stuff I want to say, but I have to go for a short bit so the second part will come later.

[Sunwoo]

Additional thoughts from Hoshidan scum: part 2

Strawman: He seems to have like very little conviction in any of his reads, and it comes off as if he's playing to both sides of an argument and not taking a stance. Not having an opinion, who's possibly the biggest wagon right now and what a lot of the game has been talking about is … kind of bad. Also, how is Marth the most actively scum hunting player right now, just out of curiosity? It seems kind of arbitrary. Not feeling good about Strawman.

BT: Prims brings up something interesting about BT, so I'll want to look into BT in future phrases. Right now, all I can say about him is that he needs to post more and I still think his justification for his vote on me over Manix sucks. I'd suspect him more if Manix flips scum.

Crysta: I am actually feeling better about Crysta now. I feel that she's putting in more effort and is definitely trying to give thoughts. But if Manix flips town that might change just because there's some associative reads there. Also, how do you actually feel about Shin now? Is he still the scummiest, or do you feel better about him now?

Marth, do you still suspect Manix/Crysta? Who else do you suspect besides them?

[eclipse]

Boron, why is Crysta more likely to be scum if Manix flips town?

[BT.]

I ran out of time to post today so this will be a quickie.

I'm fine with Boron's reponse but I'm still not sold on the slot. The argument that a meta case couldn't have been made on Blitz was a good way to push a Gaius wagon while putting on a cold front- it was very open-and-shut, and the rest of her reads also feel kind of uninspired.

Manix's recent posts feel like mudslinging where he could've taken the time to give more impressions on players. Crysta wasn't even defending Shin, she was talking about scum interactions. There's not a lot to pick and choose between resigned town and resigned scum but there's the bit of disconnect that he claims he's trying to not roll over and die but it doesn't feel like he's putting effort into scumhunting.

I don't get Prims' problem with my posts when it's just me mentioning things as they come. It's not like the strength of my scumreads doesn't show you I'm serious about the suspicions, so it seems like you're latching onto the weaker parts. Like I don't know how you think my cases lack conviction, and it smells if that's the only thing you had to say.

Just finished reading Clipse's post which climbs against like 90% of my reads. I guess the biggest question I'd ask is why Marth caught your attention over others like Refa or Pblade, because I liked his posts whenever he poked his head.

I want to votechange to Manix but I don't know how close we are to lynch, there hasn't been a votecount in ages.

[BT.]

Oh it takes 8 to hammer and I count 5 votes.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

[Paperblade]

I didn't keep pushing Manix because it felt like a dick move to respond to him every time and go "nope this is still not town" when he made a strong of posts just saying he was town and would contribute Eventually

Also I was asleep and just got up like 30 minutes ago

His claim is weird with BBM's tbh. My first thought is: he had at least 24 hours from the time he saw BBM's flip to come up with a fake (if he's mafia), so why would he go with that? He could just claim Decoy. However, Manix still isn't #efforting despite being asked multiple times to give real analysis of players, whereas p much every other active player has done so

I think eclipse's Marth case has a bit of a point. A lot of his recent posts are asking questions that he doesn't seem to be going anywhere with or explaining events that happened. Would like to see some good analysis from Marth before day ends

eclipse, why are you only factoring in the way Manix reacts to Shin for your reads? Feels myopic to me

wrt BT cases I understand why he voted Boron over Manix so shrug

[charlie_]

The 24 Hour Mark Votals
(6) Manix: Paperblade, Prims, Shin, Refa, Sunwoo, BT
(1) Shin: Crysta
(1) Crysta: Manix
(1) Marth: eclipse
(3) Not Voting: Iris, Marth, Strawman

With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 8 to hammer early. You have around 22.5 hours to decide on a lynch.

Edited May 29, 2016 by SB.

[Crysta]

dropping in to say i'll probably be busy for most of the day and will probably post stuff at like 4 AM again

just fyi

and those votals are all messed up lol (i'm the only one on shin still and there's two bts now apparently)

[Paperblade]

Crysta confirmed mayor

[Refa]

Its true that strawman hasn't been posting one-liners in this game, but he struggles a lot to get any sort of content as scum. I checked AMPM2 again to check out his scum play; it's not outright terrible in this game like it was there but he also doesn't actually take part in the important parts of discussion. Check out d1 in that game, or ISO him really.

Okay, fair enough. AM/PM 2 was the best game because it was the game where I was so good that I won twice (also Prims apparently, but two town wins doesn't even count). Read his ISO and my thoughts are that he had a decent number of reads, but they weren't very fleshed out and he struggled to make a vote. He has a lot fewer reads in this game but they're more fleshed out, which is why I wasn't bothered by him. I agree with your issues with him struggling to get out any content and not taking part in the important part of discussions though, because he did the same thing in the last game as well (I don't mind if he's not scumreading the leading wagons but I can't even remember what his thoughts on them were).

Boron's claim pinged me and I wanted to press it asap, since it was on a slot I didn't like anyway. Like I said in the post, I would've voted Manix otherwise.

People seemed to miss this though so I'll just ask directly. Refa, you said you townread Eclipse over town and content. Can you go into detail?

Oh, I missed that. My bad.

Nice typo, bro. Anyways, I liked her responses to me yesterday (kinda obvious considering I unvoted her over it) because it showed that she actually put thought into her earlier votes which I didn't really get at the time. Today, it's more because she just has a consistent thought process that I can understand (not sheep but I can get where she's coming from) and I like how she's pressing more than just her scumreads in particular (like, as scum it's easy to just do the bare minimum to get by which is why I feel good about this read).

I'm mad at myself for not being around during D1 because of the bolded. Ofc hindsight is 20/20, but looking at Marth (post #172), I think Refa (looked back, wasn't refa),Crysta (found it, post #179) and who knows who else but at least a few other people there was a lot of fence sitting in discussions wrt Gauis. Obv Boron was pushing hard, which hindsight made their interactions with Gauis look terrible also.

Post #166 is boron calling out Gaius for being over defensive when it was incited because thats what people kept asking him about, so vicious cycle there with no one actually listening to defense. But then people like Marth and others bring up issues with Boron's arguments on LG, but stay on a neutral place with him. They defend him or question it a little, but don't try that hard. I wrote down that post # for Marth but not for anyone else I noticed it in and I'm mad about that,

Anyways, the point of that was in hindsight Marth/Crysta looked bad to me for late D1 stuff. Also, since Crysta/Eclipse/Blitz were the other possible wagons, the tone of the end of D1 gives me a bad feeling about them.

But then Marth is like, the most actively scum hunting player imo right now.

So fuck me and all of my worthless can't read or understand anything this game opinions.

What are your thoughts on these people who are fencesitting? It's one thing to call them out, but I have no idea what your end reads are on any of them besides Marth. I don't get why Boron looks terrible for hard pushing LG as well, either.

@Refa: Didn't have a problem with her RVS shitposting actually and I thought I said that? I put that there because I recall it being brought up as an early point against her via Marth.

A BUNCH OF OTHER RESPONSES THAT I TOOK OUT TO SAVE SPACE

Oh, sorry, I'm bad at reading comprehension. Also I'm cool with all of your explanations (like I was all set out to make a huge reply and everything and then I couldn't think of anything to say). Carry on, citizen.

also this is scummy as fuck. he moves his opinion to "idk" territory so he can get away from that case for whatever reason.

i kinda wanted to call this out earlier but i thought i might sit on it and see if i feel better about it. i still don't

Nope, it's a town read. I had standing issues with her reads, but overall it's pretty obvious that I was townreading her despite that.

what a scumpost shin

like god i've seen some but that takes the cake

tell me, why would i even vote refa at this junction? there's not enough time to get a lynch on him even if i was dead sure on him

Why is Shin's post a scum post? Like, I don't agree with the logic either but you're not explaining why it's SCUM logic.

BT was bugging me though, if Boron's vote on Manix is easy why do you like it? what makes it good? why call Manix's play "null aside from two points" if he was the person you were going to vote?

the way BT keeps cutting people slack while voting them looks insincere when his vote is there anyway... + idk what makes Boron's claim scummy so it looks like he wants an excuse to vote off the big wagon. in any case BT why is Boron still your preferred vote now that you've dropped the role-related case if you found her "null-scum" up until the claim?

This is actually pretty legit. I can get where he's coming from WRT Boron but I really don't get why his Manix case amounted to null considering it read as a scumread. Actually thinking about it now, most of his issues with Boron seem to revolve around her D1 content but I don't think he ever takes her D2 content into account. Why is that, BT? What makes you say that the rest of her posts are uninspired? What are your thoughts on other players in general?

On one hand: As scum your scum buds could notice, question, correct, etc their understanding of the role. So Boron mistaking it comes as as very unfiltered.

On the other hand that can be faked (not so much faked but imagine in the scum discussion Boron mistaking it then getting it worked out) by just rehashing the same sort assumed discussion in thread to make it look genuine. The counter to this is why that is necessary. Its not scummy to understand your role correctly.

So not why would you mistake your role as scum, but why would you fake mistake your role publicly as scum?

I mean everyone can ask SB questions/clarification about their role in their own PM.

Yeah, I thought more about it and realized I was being paranoid because in the end, worrying about Boron's claim is kind of dumb. It's null, I don't think the way she claimed it makes her more likelier to be town (town is not any more likely to be confused about their role than scum is), and it doesn't matter in the end because the rest of her content reads as town anyways.

let me pose a question though, at everyone: outside of me/crysta, who is your strongest scumread, and why? only one person unless you're feeling adventurous

Strawman/BT. Strawman makes more sense as scum because read above but I need follow ups from BT because I'm not as sure about that read ATM.

The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to think that Manix is mafia because of it. It would be pretty easy to sit on the decoy part, without revealing the second half.

On reread, Marth feels like he's off to the sides more than scumhunting. Also, Strawman, who's scum? I know you've been busy, but you've said surprisingly little in the last two posts, which are the longest ones you've made this day phase (and before you beat yourself up over that mislynch, I'd be pushing hard for a Gaius lynch today if he'd survived).

##Vote: Marth

Lynch priority, JUST FOR SHIN:

Marth > Strawman (before I hear "but that came out of nowhere", that comment about Strawman being a vig shot wasn't a joke) >> Shin > Manix

To clarify: The only way I'm voting Shin/Manix is if there's not enough votes for a minimum lynch.

No one moved off of his wagon when he claimed Decoy, so I don't think sitting on it would have done him any good.

Okay, your lynch priority confuses me again. Why is Strawman above Shin on your list?

@Boron

You mentioned BT's vote sucks on you, but do you think it's scummy or just a bad vote? Why does he make more sense as scum if Manix is scum?

[eclipse]

Just finished reading Clipse's post which climbs against like 90% of my reads. I guess the biggest question I'd ask is why Marth caught your attention over others like Refa or Pblade, because I liked his posts whenever he poked his head.

Paperblade draws conclusions in his posts. I'll grab a quote from him:

My main thing for Manix right now is: If you are town, give me a reason to lynch other players over you.

Boron's role is weird. It's not actually helpful to the town based on what she has said (It doesn't secure a lynch like Prims said, since the person has to already be at min. votes for her to use it on them). Its only niche use is to get us a lynch in the case that there are 2 dead even wagons and Boron really wants to push hers and no one on the other wagon is willing to back down. As mafia its use is much more straightforward: end the day phase immediately to lynch a townie who accumulated too many votes. However I feel like Boron wouldn't make a yoloclaim like that as mafia (unless she truly thought this was a strong claim) so shrug

Crysta crysta crysta. Reading her iso, the first thing I notice is she seems jumpy early in the game, which is consistent with many of the cases I've seen levied at her. Beyond that, the main issue with Crysta's posts is that her priority for scumreads is really bad/weird. The thing is, if she was maf, would she commit hard to her Blitz slot scumread and other hipster-y things?

I think BT's posts are gud

Just from this post alone, here's what I get:

- Boron's claim is probably town

- Crysta's weird reads don't make sense as scum (I think this is implying a not-scumread, though whether Crysta is null/town is another matter)

- BT isn't worth voting right now (IMO it would be a waste of time to explain why, short of trying to get a lynch off of BT)

Refa just posted a wall which I'm not quoting, but he explicitly states a townread on Crysta, which is more than what Marth has had recently.

Oh it takes 8 to hammer and I count 5 votes.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

No need to hammer to lynch. Hell, Boron can end the day phase or something, if you're that unhappy with her role.

eclipse, why are you only factoring in the way Manix reacts to Shin for your reads? Feels myopic to me

Manix had his vote on Shin for a while before switching to Crysta. Since they were voting each other, it really helps if they interact in-thread. Here's the vote change.

Speaking of, Manix did a case against Crysta, and you wanted a case from Manix. What is your opinion of it?

No one moved off of his wagon when he claimed Decoy, so I don't think sitting on it would have done him any good.

Okay, your lynch priority confuses me again. Why is Strawman above Shin on your list?

Why claim it, then?

Also, did you have a problem when I said Strawman would be a nice vig target? Because that STRONGLY implies that I have no issues with removing them from the game.

---

I don't want the phase to end yet, because there's too many things that need to be answered for. I'm not feeling the Manix lynch at all - for example, he put down a vote for Crysta, and exactly one-third of his wagon made ANY sort of comment on it (BT and Shin). Like, if Manix is being suspected because he's not throwing out cases, comment on his cases when he does. I don't think he owes the game an impressions post when the people voting him don't bother to respond to his more recent posts (like that scuffle with Shin, where Refa said anything about it), because it's basically telling him that no one really cares about what he posts, so why bother? This is why I think Manix comes off more as frustrated town than defensive scum.

I also don't buy this:

I didn't keep pushing Manix because it felt like a dick move to respond to him every time and go "nope this is still not town" when he made a strong of posts just saying he was town and would contribute Eventually

WHY isn't it town? Like, give Manix some logic to respond to. On pure content, I'm getting a null from him. Thanks to the actions of the people on his wagon, I've got a "do not lynch" on him. That is fucked up beyond belief - I should be deriving reads from Manix himself, not the inaction of everyone else.

[eclipse]

Oh, right, and forgot to say this:

Prims, just how much is BT bugging you? You keep mentioning it, but you're not doing much about it.

[Sunwoo]

Boron, why is Crysta more likely to be scum if Manix flips town?

It's because while Crysta has expressed suspicion of Manix in earlier posts, it didn't feel like she had a lot of conviction behind the suspicion. Her saying that she doesn't care which of Shin or Manix goes first kind of feels like a lack of commitment too. But it's a lesser read, and I feel more strongly about the inverse (Crysta flipping town would make me feel even worse about Manix)

@Boron

You mentioned BT's vote sucks on you, but do you think it's scummy or just a bad vote? Why does he make more sense as scum if Manix is scum?

The reason I think BT might make more sense as scum if Manix were scum is because of the reasoning that he gave for voting me over Manix. "Was going to vote Manix, but I'm voting Boron over the claim." It was literally the claim itself and not how I'd claimed it either, if I recall correctly. That makes me feel like he was just looking for a reason to not vote Manix. I'd think that his vote were more "bad" than "scummy", but it's just that line of justification that's bugging me.

[Refa]

Why claim it, then?

Also, did you have a problem when I said Strawman would be a nice vig target? Because that STRONGLY implies that I have no issues with removing them from the game.

I don't want the phase to end yet, because there's too many things that need to be answered for. I'm not feeling the Manix lynch at all - for example, he put down a vote for Crysta, and exactly one-third of his wagon made ANY sort of comment on it (BT and Shin). Like, if Manix is being suspected because he's not throwing out cases, comment on his cases when he does. I don't think he owes the game an impressions post when the people voting him don't bother to respond to his more recent posts (like that scuffle with Shin, where Refa said anything about it), because it's basically telling him that no one really cares about what he posts, so why bother? This is why I think Manix comes off more as frustrated town than defensive scum.

I'm saying that it didn't achieve the intended result of getting votes off of him, so sitting on it wouldn't really help him out.

I thought you said he'd be a nice vig target because he hadn't been posting content for forever and you didn't like what he posted. I don't get why he's a better lynch target than Shin FYPOV, though.

Can't speak for other people but I know that I didn't comment on his Crysta vote because it was a "not me over me". It's the optimal play as either alignments, so it doesn't make me feel better or worse about him. Actually thinking about it now, I can get where he's coming from WRT Shin because it read as Shin trying to make a strictly null action seem scummy.

[Sunwoo]

I don't want the phase to end yet, because there's too many things that need to be answered for. I'm not feeling the Manix lynch at all - for example, he put down a vote for Crysta, and exactly one-third of his wagon made ANY sort of comment on it (BT and Shin). Like, if Manix is being suspected because he's not throwing out cases, comment on his cases when he does. I don't think he owes the game an impressions post when the people voting him don't bother to respond to his more recent posts (like that scuffle with Shin, where Refa said anything about it), because it's basically telling him that no one really cares about what he posts, so why bother? This is why I think Manix comes off more as frustrated town than defensive scum.

Okay, so, I read back on Manix's vote on Crysta and the stuff preceding it. His reasoning for it is basically "not me over me" and "Crysta has been vote parking again". The first is null, because I'd expect anyone regardless of alignment to do it. As for the vote parking, what's bothering me is that I can't see how Crysta's vote parking is much worse than Strawman being noncommittal or Marth, whom Manix had expressed suspicion of. Is the vote still fueled off "not me over me" more than anything else?

[Refa]

It's because while Crysta has expressed suspicion of Manix in earlier posts, it didn't feel like she had a lot of conviction behind the suspicion. Her saying that she doesn't care which of Shin or Manix goes first kind of feels like a lack of commitment too. But it's a lesser read, and I feel more strongly about the inverse (Crysta flipping town would make me feel even worse about Manix)

The reason I think BT might make more sense as scum if Manix were scum is because of the reasoning that he gave for voting me over Manix. "Was going to vote Manix, but I'm voting Boron over the claim." It was literally the claim itself and not how I'd claimed it either, if I recall correctly. That makes me feel like he was just looking for a reason to not vote Manix. I'd think that his vote were more "bad" than "scummy", but it's just that line of justification that's bugging me.

Yeah, fair enough on both. WRT Crysta, I thought about the lack of commitment too but I can get why she doesn't feel strongly about either of her reads considering her previous issues with reading people.

[Refa]

I'm leaving now but Shin, what happened to your Crysta read? She made several walls and as far as I can tell, you haven't commented on either except to say "Crysta and Manix can be scumbuddies due to the timing of their cross votes".

[eclipse]

I'm saying that it didn't achieve the intended result of getting votes off of him, so sitting on it wouldn't really help him out.

I thought you said he'd be a nice vig target because he hadn't been posting content for forever and you didn't like what he posted. I don't get why he's a better lynch target than Shin FYPOV, though.

Can't speak for other people but I know that I didn't comment on his Crysta vote because it was a "not me over me". It's the optimal play as either alignments, so it doesn't make me feel better or worse about him. Actually thinking about it now, I can get where he's coming from WRT Shin because it read as Shin trying to make a strictly null action seem scummy.

Shin is generating reads and pushing someone, which is better than Strawman's lack of commitment. Thus, I feel that Shin is better to keep around for now, and since we don't have a vig (unless it's more even-night nonsense), the town's kill is the lynch.

Look, if it's a case of "not me over me", rip that thing to fucking shreds and then some. Leave the tatters of logic up to the other person to stitch together into something. By not responding, it gives the other person the impression that you don't care, and for someone who reads as "demotivated" (which I mentioned earlier), that's not going to give them the oomph they need to post.

Also, if you're townreading Crysta, I can't figure out why you're giving Shin a pass for that post - I read it as a very subtle push on both.

Sheesh, I shouldn't have to scream to get stuff like this out of a wagon. I really REALLY need associative reads, which means directly responding to lynch targets when they put something up.

[Refa]

Look, if it's a case of "not me over me", rip that thing to fucking shreds and then some. Leave the tatters of logic up to the other person to stitch together into something. By not responding, it gives the other person the impression that you don't care, and for someone who reads as "demotivated" (which I mentioned earlier), that's not going to give them the oomph they need to post.

Also, if you're townreading Crysta, I can't figure out why you're giving Shin a pass for that post - I read it as a very subtle push on both.

Don't really get your point WRT the first line.

I didn't read Shin's post (assuming you're talking about the one saying that Crysta made sense as Manix's scumbuddy) as a subtle push, just as an associative read. I'm not bothered by that in particular because Shin was scumreading both of them beforehand, so it's not like it came out of nowhere. What bothers me about Shin is that it felt like he dropped his Crysta read as soon as support for her lynch dropped, which reads as opportunistic. I'm cool with his Manix vote on its own; need a response from him before I delve further into my other thoughts on it, though.

[Strawman]

@Eclipse + @Refa

I thought Marth was doing the best scumhunting because he was giving reads on a lot of players and bringing up things other people weren't mentioning and that conflicted with my thoughts on his end of D1. But it seems like he should have voted for me already, but he hasn't done anything with all those reads he was producing.

I don't like Crysta for end of D1 (I was trying to say something about Marth and Crysta in that stupidly big post i did but idk if it really got across). And i kind of missed why everyone has dismissed her as a lynch but I'll see of i can find that tomorrow.

So I would say ##Vote:Marth

The thing about Manix is that especially in recent games is that she has just like in this game pretty much mentioned being distracted or not engaged in every post, so the meta stays true to what i've noticed recently. But in the past two games she was pushing her reads and votes stronger in those games. Here I haven't noticed that, but she'd also drawn more negative attention. So you have town meta with post style, town tone (something about strong conviction when mentioning role and alignment is believable), but the content isn't her town content at all.

[Bluedoom]

I wouldn't scumread paperblade for not pushing Manix harder because:

I didn't keep pushing Manix because it felt like a dick move to respond to him every time and go "nope this is still not town" when he made a strong of posts just saying he was town and would contribute Eventually

I agree with this especially since in the GomC I was in people kept ignoring my posts and calling me scum no matter what and I was town. I was pretty emotional about it.

If anything I wouldn't townread Prims just because Manix flipped scum. I feel like I'm townclearing people or nullreading people for lame reasons but if there was one read I'd change, it'd be this. He isn't above bussing his buddies and then coasting on the towncred that he gets from that so I wouldn't give him a pass for that. Its not like it he has been pushing his BT suspicion further, also. If Manix/BT flip scum I'd look into this slot further.

I understand why people feel that BT voting Boron over Manix would look bad but from the other side, its pretty obvious. He wouldn't be able to achieve anything out of a Manix vote, and as he said, its so easy to case Manix at this point in the game. The mental gymnastics that he took to justify voting Boron over Manix looks awkward but the logic behind the votes is sound IMO. Don't think he's scum atm.

Tbh looking at paperblade's points about Boron's role I realized that the role might not necessarily be town since we only have Boron's word regarding the part on whether it causes another lynch alongside the vigshot. So as scum they could play ridiculously and get 3 townies for a scum trade off in one and a half cycles, which is p reasonable IMO. As town the claim makes sense, and as scum the claim makes sense too since she can get towncred off of it very easily. I've already talked about my issues with her D1 play, so yeah, not exactly happy with it atm.

I didn't really get any of the cases on Shin because the reasons feel inadequate. Manix literally got his facts wrong with his initial case on Shin and Crysta's feels very graspy because its nitpicking at the wording of his posts. I don't see how Shin's post regarding speculation about Manix/Crysta as buddies is a scum post- tunneling townies do this all the time and sometimes feel like finding more evidence to suggest that their scumreads really are scum. My only problem with this slot is they don't have reads other than Manix/Crysta but that's the same with literally the entire game atm.

Strawman is still a scumread, whoops.

[Bluedoom]

@Eclipse + @Refa

I thought Marth was doing the best scumhunting because he was giving reads on a lot of players and bringing up things other people weren't mentioning and that conflicted with my thoughts on his end of D1. But it seems like he should have voted for me already, but he hasn't done anything with all those reads he was producing.

I don't like Crysta for end of D1 (I was trying to say something about Marth and Crysta in that stupidly big post i did but idk if it really got across). And i kind of missed why everyone has dismissed her as a lynch but I'll see of i can find that tomorrow.

So I would say ##Vote:Marth

The thing about Manix is that especially in recent games is that she has just like in this game pretty much mentioned being distracted or not engaged in every post, so the meta stays true to what i've noticed recently. But in the past two games she was pushing her reads and votes stronger in those games. Here I haven't noticed that, but she'd also drawn more negative attention. So you have town meta with post style, town tone (something about strong conviction when mentioning role and alignment is believable), but the content isn't her town content at all.

NINJA'D but

a)Do you think Crysta and I are buddies?

b)Why would I vote an inactive? Where was that gonna go? My vote's still gonna go on Manix if I were to vote right now.

c)Explain your read on Crysta and I fully: What did you not like about our D1 exactly, what changed your mind during D2, and why did you change your mind again?

You had a problem with me lightly defending Gaius, but why? Was it inconsistent with any of my other content?

[eclipse]

Don't really get your point WRT the first line.

I didn't read Shin's post (assuming you're talking about the one saying that Crysta made sense as Manix's scumbuddy) as a subtle push, just as an associative read. I'm not bothered by that in particular because Shin was scumreading both of them beforehand, so it's not like it came out of nowhere. What bothers me about Shin is that it felt like he dropped his Crysta read as soon as support for her lynch dropped, which reads as opportunistic. I'm cool with his Manix vote on its own; need a response from him before I delve further into my other thoughts on it, though.

If my scumread has some sort of case, and it's apparently not enough to sway my vote, I'll quote it and explain why it's not enough. That's the kind of thing that someone can respond to.

Here's the Shinquote:

I've noticed that Crysta and Manix have suddenly started to pay attention to each other when they're both under fire. They're both cross-voting each other after trying to put a case on me. Another thing is that they both seem pretty apathetic to it, with Crysta still not caring if I'm lynched over Manix and Manix providing a case on Refa that feels more substantial than Crysta after giving a weak Crysta vote.

Not saying that they're definitely scumbuddies, but it's a vibe that I'm really getting. I mean, if one did flip scum, it would look kinda bad for the other.

So, it's a "well they COULD be scumbuddies thing", with enough room such that Shin can deny it if either flips town. I can draw the conclusion that Paperblade and Boron might be buddies because both distanced themselves from the Blitz debacle D1 and both didn't give Manix proper responses to his content during this day phase, but even if what I said is true, it could be that Paperblade's not SF's most confrontational poster, and Boron's been popping in and out due to RL.

In other words, scum logic.

---

Hey Marth, you have ONE stated scum read in all of those words. I'll be quite happy if you ninja me with a vote and some logic as to why your vote is where it is.

[eclipse]

Oh, right.

Strawman - hey, I see a read, but if you're part of #ManixDidNothingWrong, you're going to need a better argument otherwise. Also, who ELSE is scum? Unless there's a one-person mafia, but I can't see it with this game.

Also, I'm too lazy to look up the details of my lynch priority, but IIRC I had Strawman > Shin. It's now Strawman = Shin, since that Manix/Crysta post bugs the everliving hell out of me (weak reads vs. actual scum logic, sue me).

[Refa]

Paper is town for the same reasons that Eclipse is town, although I'm not AS SURE about that read just because he hasn't posted as much.

How do you think Prims should push his BT suspicion further? From reading his posts, my impressions were that Manix was still his primary scum read and he just had issues with BT's posts as well. Him pushing Manix harder than BT and his vote being on Manix just kind of proves it.

WRT BT, I'm fine with him voting Boron over Manix now (makes sense to push a weaker read if the stronger read already has enough pressure) but I have other issues with him. Actually, what do you think about my issues w/BT/Shin (if you don't want to read my entire posts, I'm going to quote the relevant bits below).

This is actually pretty legit. I can get where he's [bT] coming from WRT Boron but I really don't get why his Manix case amounted to null considering it read as a scumread. Actually thinking about it now, most of his issues with Boron seem to revolve around her D1 content but I don't think he ever takes her D2 content into account. Why is that, BT? What makes you say that the rest of her posts are uninspired? What are your thoughts on other players in general?

Can't speak for other people but I know that I didn't comment on his Crysta vote because it was a "not me over me". It's the optimal play as either alignments, so it doesn't make me feel better or worse about him. Actually thinking about it now, I can get where he's coming from WRT Shin because it read as Shin trying to make a strictly null action seem scummy.

I didn't read Shin's post (assuming you're talking about the one saying that Crysta made sense as Manix's scumbuddy) as a subtle push, just as an associative read. I'm not bothered by that in particular because Shin was scumreading both of them beforehand, so it's not like it came out of nowhere. What bothers me about Shin is that it felt like he dropped his Crysta read as soon as support for her lynch dropped, which reads as opportunistic. I'm cool with his Manix vote on its own; need a response from him before I delve further into my other thoughts on it, though.

Also what are your thoughts on the people casing you?