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Open Assault: When user fights in terrain with no terrain effects, damage +3 during battles; learned from Cavalier, level 1 Confined Defense: When user fights in terrain with terrain effects, damage received -3 during battles; learned from Knight level 10 The reason I ask is as follows: traditionally speaking, flying units never receive terrain effects from the terrain. But they'd still be over a tile that has terrain effects that can be applied to other units. So it comes down to in which sense "no terrain effects" applies… would this still only trigger in specific types of terrain, or would it turn into an always on +3 damage for fliers? If the latter, it wouldn't be as powerful of a boost as Prescient victory (+4) or Overbearing (+5), but it would be something that could be active unconditionally, including on the enemy phase and against cavalry/flying units. If the former, then it could still be stacked with the others, but others might be preferable. Likewise, I might think that Confined Defense would never work with flying units, but could someone confirm if this is indeed the case?

Zanshin has 10 more might than Excalibur does…. its drawbacks are being limited to exactly 2 range. Excalibur has 10 less might (12 instead of 22) but has 10 more hit and 15 more crit. It can also be used at 1 range if needed (preferably against a Bow user at 1 range to avoid being countered). I guess its so much weaker in might in exchange for the greater versatility in range and the elevated crit chance (which triples damage when it occurs). That and Holy Bowman also has only 31 str while Sorcerers have 35 magic, so that erodes some of the might advantage when it comes to damage… except in the case of effective damage, its more like Zanshin only gets 6 more damage than Excalibur, assuming both the users are capped out, as Sorcerers have 4 more magic than Holy Bowman have strength.

Ouch… that makes Excalibur substantially worse than it had looked…

That's true…. I myself might consider something like: Trueblade (S-rank swords, +10 avoid): 1. Swordfaire (from the same class) 2. possibly a proc skill (Astra from the same class, or a more reliable one like Luna/Breaking Sky if available…. or you could just go defensive with Sol (32%)); or you could use this for other utility 3. Swallow Strike (double more easily) 4. a weapon breaker… perhaps Axebreaker to deal with Berserkers, or Lancebreaker to counter WT disadvantage 5…. Need to think on this one…

Do stat reductions apply in attack stance for the dual strike partner if they use something like a Silver or the S-rank weapons like Hagakure? Likewise, are skills like Line of Death still valid in influencing dual strike power?

EDIT/ADDENDUM: We need to figure out if growth rates are inherited Awakening Style. Maximum stat mods are known to be inherited Awakening style, that said, complete with the +1 child mod. As for post #2…. That's been answered elsewhere…. you could Parallel Seal between White/Dark Blood and Hero/Bow Knight, but if you go to Hero/Bow Knight you don't immediately start learning the Hero/Bow Knight skills… rather, if you're above the level requirement (which you are, due to being promoted), you first learn the Mercenary skills at the rate of one per level. Then, if you've met or exceeded the level requirements for the Hero/Bow Knight skills, you start learning all those which your level qualifies you at 1 per level. Examples: For some reason, you never class changed until level 15 White Blood. You become a Hero. You learn the 1st Mercenary skill at 16 Hero, the 2nd Mercenary skill at 17 Hero, Sol at 18 Hero, and Axebreaker at 19 Hero. But if you promoted to level 1 White Blood and then Parallel Sealed to 1 Hero, you'd get the 1st Mercenary skill at 2 Hero and the 2nd Mercenary skill at 3 Hero. Then if you wanted to you could get to level 5 and pick up Sol, or class change back to White Blood (if you had the seal) and get White Blood's level 5 skill. If you then then returned to Hero after getting to White Blood 15 from the latter case, you could then pick up Sol at say Hero 16 and Axebreaker at Hero 17.

Are you assuming buying your skills, or obtaining them naturally with skill inheritance, class inheritance, marriage seals, and buddy seals? For example, your first set involves, as you kind of already allude to, five different class trees, which is only something that can emerge from a child with marriage seals and buddy seals… and that's if you could even arrange for that combination in the first place. Strength Seal [samurai Tree] Magic Seal [Dark Mage Tree] Renewal [Priest Tree] Defensive Formation [Knight Tree] Four Fangs [this is one of the shape shifters, right?] Here are some: Suggested to me by someone on GameFAQ 1. Swallow Strike 2. Weapon-faire (Swordfaire, Bowfaire, Lancefaire, etc.) 3. Line of Death 4. Prescient Victory 5. filler [such as another Strike skill, example, Mirror Strike or Flowing Strike] This is something that can be accomplished without using DLC… it doesn't need marriage or buddy seals either… for example, the person who suggested it to me was considering Setsuna!Matoi as their example…. the idea is to stack a lot of attack boosters (+5+10+4 = +19 attack, plus an additional +4 in Matoi's case for +23) and also help guarantee a doubling.

Speaking of growth rates and optimization: Seeing that level boosting seals are limited until later in the game and after a certain Dragon Vein point investment, perhaps optimization topics like this one should consider at least two separate optimizations: 1.) Maingame, 20/20 optimization, and Post-game, level boosted stat capped optimization. Actually, is there an upper level for level capping? That would help determine whether it would actually possible for everything to get maxed out, like the maxed stats with mods approach to optimization often assumes. Likewise, as stat boosters buyable after a certain point, as that would also help reaching maxed-out stat optimizations. But yes, you have a good idea in using child seals as a test.

Speaking of 20/20 stats, how does that work out for children characters when using child seals? Are they properly credited for their growth rates?

Assuming they're able to get the same VAs, I'll be that Julie Ann Taylor will be doing at least two characters: On a tangential note, the fact that she voiced a certain other character in BlazBlue makes a certain wordplay pop into my head. In BlazBlue, Julie voices Tsubaki Yayoi. If my predictions are correct, in Fates she'll voice Tsubaki's Matoi. Tsubaki Yayoi Tsubaki's Matoi

Related to supports…. Has anyone thought to translate the support endings/epilogues that traditionally play at the end of the game? Are those still here? You know, so that we could learn the fates (no pun intended) of the various couples. I for one would love to see how Luna x Subaki and Matoi x Kamui turn out in support endings… although I get the feeling that the latter might be a generic ending like in Awakening.

On the 3rd route, do you suppose we'll be able to access the weaponry/weapon types from both factions? You know, stuff like the Reverse Katana (i.e. Hoshido's Lancereaver equivalent) alongside the Brave Sword (Nohr) and the Levin Sword (Nohr)?

That's a good question… I've been wondering how that would work…

So, it turns out we already answered this question in the meantime, but Arya got back to me and confirmed what we thought to be the case. Thanks, Arya! Ayra said: ====================================================================== Hello, I still have my old save with Hinoka x Subaki. When using an S-rank seal on Hinoka, she has the option for Trueblade and Weaponmaster. Subaki has the Lancer upgrades. ======================================================================

I was thinking… would Trueblade be a good ending class choice for Luna!Matoi? Her mods are -1 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +1 Spd, +0 Lck, +5 Def, and +0 Res. She gets Pegasus Warrior/Falcon Warrior/Golden Kite Warrior and Samurai/Trueblade/Weapons Master from her starting class and her father respectively. She gets Mercenary/Brave Hero/Bow Knight from her mother. Trueblade has (unmodified) max stats of the following, according to the information on this site: 55 HP, 30 Str, 28 Mag, 32 Skl, 35 Spd, 33 Lck, 27 Def, 31 Res Modifying them with Luna!Matoi's stat mods: Luna!Matoi Trueblade: 55 HP, 29 Str, 29 Mag, 34 Skl, 36 Spd, 33 Lck, 32 Def, 31 Res Also, the website notes that Trueblade has an inherent +10 crit and +10 avoid. Her skills would be: Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart, Rally Speed, Mirror Strike, Soar, Sun God, Flowing Strike, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Strength Seal, Line of Death, Patient Assurance, Stubborness, Sol, Axebreaker, Rally Skill, Kunaibreaker What do people think? Do you have a better suggestion for a class that would be more optimal for a Luna!Matoi? The idea is that she could abuse high speed, Swallow Strike, Swordfaire, Prodigy, the choice of either regular swords (including Brave Swords) or Levin Swords, optionally line of death, breakers, etc. She also has alternate options for a player phase strategy with Vantage and Patient Assurance, as well as perhaps using the Warrior Katana.

So, judging from NekoKnight and gayserbeam's reports, these are the rules: 1. If there is no class overlap between the characters, the simplest case scenario plays out: they both get each other's primary class trees. 2. If they share each other's primary class trees, then they get each other's secondary class trees. 3. If a spouse's secondary class tree is in common with their spouse's primary, they get nothing.

That, and I won't have the game until 2016, so I cannot directly check myself, only ask for information from other people. I suppose that you could do something like marrying someone with extreme stat growth in one area (like Kagerou's 65 strength or Orochi's 65 magic) and marry them off to a father/have them mother a child where the stat in question has very low growth rates. Then you could see if those maternal growth rates significantly elevated these beyond expectation…. particularly if they also horribly stunt the other stat, such that the character should normally be stronger in the other stat but instead will grow to be weaker in it. For example, Orochi gives 5 strength and 65 magic, right? So someone could pair com one with bad magic and medicocre strength with Orochi and see what happens… I've calculated, for example, that an Orochi!Matoi, for example, would have a 33.33% magic growth if Awakening growth inheritance works, compared to a 15% growth for her listed personal growths. Likewise, her listed personal growths would suggest 35% strength, but Orochi would sap it down to 23.333%. Granted, this method wouldn't be precise enough for the correct formula, but getting more than twice the expected magic growth and subpar physical growth would be a clear giveaway that stat growths were inherited, if this does happen to be the case. Orochi doesn't have to be the test subject mother, nor Matoi the test subject child, of course… its just an example.

i.e. Actual Growth Rate = (Personal Growth Rate + Mother's Growth Rate + Father's Growth Rate)/3 I imagine that this would be harder to verify, given RNG and the need to take statistics over many levels and characters.

Actually, to my knowledge, it isn't confirmed yet, which is why its all assumptions right now… That said: If its just their own personal growths: Matoi: 55% Hp, 35% Str, 15% Mag, 40% Skl, 40% Spd, 45% Lck, 35% Def, 20% Res If its Awakening style growth inheritance: Hinoka!Matoi: 51.667% HP; 36.667% Str ; 16.667% Mag; 43.333% Skl; 35.000% Spd; 36.667% Lck; 38.333% Def; 21.666% Res So in this case, Matoi happens to (in most cases) its not a huge departure… most of her growths end up fairly close either way. Although if it doesn't work Awakening style then the argument of Hinoka having better growth rates to give to Matoi than Oboro would become void.

I've sent a private message asking SerenesForest user Arya about this, as I know that they had a Hinoka x Subaki pairing, which would fall under the type of situation that Bovinian points out we should test in #6.

Well, a Nyx!Matoi would get growth rates (personal) of 23.333% in Strength and 28.333% in Magic, assuming Awakening growth inheritances, so that's on the lowish side. (Subaki, who has lowish strength, has 30% strength, and he has 20% magic; Nyx has 5% strength and 50% magic). Although if you made her a Dark Knight, she'd get personal+class growths of: 43.333% Strength and 38.3333% Magic…. she also has access to Swordfaire from Subaki's classes. (Dark Knight would come from Nyx's classes). If she buddy supported with a Spellcaster (is not!Tharja an option?), she could pick up Tomefaire as well for this. B rank swords and A rank tomes are available from Dark Knight.

I guess what would be helpful would be if someone who actually has the game and has such a pairing and a spare marriage seal lying around (or who has already used such a marriage seal) could tell us from their firsthand knowledge.

You need 4 class trees to pull it off: Lancer (Defense and Speed) Oni Savage (Resistance) Dark Mage (Magic) Samurai (Strength) Let's see… Oboro!Matoi and Hinoka!Matoi get both Lancer and Samurai… if they can marry a Kamui with Oni Savage and buddy with a Dark Mage… although this might not work that well, seeing that Dark Mages are on the other side…. Or they could marry a Dark Mage, but then they'd need to buddy an Oni Savage, and those don't have wide distributions either… Nyx Matoi would give both Strength and Magic….. Hm… this is tricky….

I've been hearing mixed information on this one…. some have indicated it might be useless, but I've heard a few reports of the opposite, so I really don't know. Such clarification would be helpful.

So, if Hinoka!Matoi is the one that our discussion is currently favoring, what do you think the asset and flaw I should give my Avatar/Kamui/Corrin should be so that when he has a child (Kanna) with Matoi, said child will turn out the best Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna possible? Likewise, what class do you think I should take as the Avatar's secondary class? This will result in Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna's class set being: Nohr Princess Avatar's secondary class Pegasus Warrior [inherited from Matoi] Another relevant consideration here is that whatever the Avatar takes as his second class is something that Matoi will be able to access as well, via marriage Seals. But, of course, we also want something that is useful for the Avatar on his own. These will be the stats that Hinoka!Matoi passes on as a mother. Hinoka!Matoi: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res The Avatar himself will have 8 points of maximum stat increases from his asset and 5 points of maximum stat decreases from his flaw. Additionally, Kanna's personal skill directly incentivizes her to be using her Dragonstone, as her personal skill directly revolves around restoring HP by 15% whenever she has her Dragonstone equipped. Of course, she doesn't HAVE to use it, but its what her skill revolves around. The basic dragonstone has the properties of: Critical Evade +10, Magic weapon, cannot double attack, Skill -3, Speed -2, Defence +4 and Resistance +3 Any suggestions? Stack Defense? Resistance (for Resistance + Speed peripheral)? An offense stat? etc. ​The rest of this post is just a summary of Hinoka!Matoi's parameters: Pegasus Warrior [starting]{Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart}, Falcon Warrior {Rally Speed, Mirror Strike}, Golden Kite Warrior{Soar, Sun God} Samurai [inherited from her father]{Flowing Strike, Vantage}, Trueblade {Astra, Swordfaire}, Weapons Master {Strength Seal, Line of Death} Lance Fighter [inherited from her mother] {Defense Seal, Substitute} Holy Lancer {Speed Seal, Lancefaire} Basara {Breaking Sky, Flamboyant} Max Stats: Hinoka!Matoi: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res Hinoka's Matoi's Growth Rates before the effects of classes: HP: 51.667%; Str: 36.667%; Mag: 16.667%; Skl: 43.333%; Spd: 35.000%; Lck: 36.667%; Def: 38.333%; Res: 21.666%