Interceptor
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Posts posted by Interceptor
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I definitely understand what you're talking about in terms of Sol/Galeforce/Lethality, but surely meatshielding is viable: Counter can't kill you if you're not dealing damage. I'm also as coldhearted as Marth, and have no problem recruiting a Spotpass unit solely to use them as a honeypot to attract flies before they perish. All's fair.
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Well, the nice thing about Syrena is that you can't really keep Avatar down. Veteran is just absurd; the free stats from being over-leveled tend to paper over a lot of problems.
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Morgan (Donnel)
Okay, so I think Morgan can be tiered to be about the same level as Lucina (Avatar), but underneath still. A Morgan(Donnel) is completely workable without training Donnel at all. Donnel needs only a Barbarian (40 exp) and Thief (60 exp) kill on his join chapter to gain a level. Very easy to set-up since you can lure in a barbarian to weaken on turn 1 for Donnel to kill on turn phase, then set-up a KO for the thief on enemy phase for donnel to kill on turn 2. After this, he can get paired up with Avatar for S rank support. Avatar will never need pair support bonuses while holding Donnel due to 1.5exp gain allowing Avatar to be above enemy stats all the time.
It can be done to get Avatar to ~20/10 by Morgan's join time while maintaining relatively low turn count and not absolutely spamming MU at every possible moment. With a rescue, Second Seal (will have three (if including renown) by this point in the game), and reclass to Cavalier, Morgan has perfectly usable stats to start gaining kills on turn one of his join chapter. I finished it in 5 turns to have Morgan sitting at level 7.88 and an average of 5.8 stat gains per level. Interceptors Morgan was only a little bit better than my own Morgan (untrained donnel) by only a couple points in stats here and there. As Interceptor has pointed out, Morgan gets a +1 level when paired and Veteran with every kill until about level 5 from reclass on his join chapter.
To recap, Morgan(donnel) is good because of Veteran/Aptitude. He has completely workable bases when reclassed and only with Avatar being used. His join chapter allows enough experience to be gained to get high enough stat gains to catch-up with the rest of your units. He will need another chapter or two at most to surpass the other units. And all of this can be accomplished with a relatively low turn count.
The only reason I would put Morgan underneath Lucina (Avatar) is because Lucina requires less resources to more or less be the same as Morgan at join time. Morgan requires a reclass and a number of level-ups on his join chapter to be on par with the rest of your units. Lucina will more or less achieve this simply by you using Chrom/Avatar through out the game to give great bases. In the long run though, Morgan would turn into a better unit with Aptitude.
I basically agree with all of this. The biggest surprise of my PT was the thing that I never even intended to look at in the first place: Veteran/Aptitude Morgan. Even though the loss of a third of his father's stats does hurt, it's counterbalanced by Avatar's stats, the ease of getting him kills in his recruitment chapter, and his crazy growth potential. Never has a unit gone from Zero (ORKOed at point of recruitment) to Hero (best unit in your entire army) so hard and so fast.
The only issue I have with this is that Morgan is a non-Lucina child. We're very squishy on children right now. It might not be the best time to wrestle with it, since I think that the question of child paralogues is a big X factor (I personally only did Morgan's, and nobody else's).
On topic, I agree with Chrom down, but more notably, I want Stahl to go up to bottom of S. I think he's vastly underrated- with Frederick in his pocket he can gain a ton of levels in Chapter 2, and then in Chapter 3 he completes his brotp with Kellam, a combination that is damn near uncrackable for a very long time. By the time his Speed actually gets to be a drag, he can pick up a Cordelia support, which combine with Tonics to give him the speed he needs to stay competitive. By endgame, he can elect to stay as-is or swap to Swordmaster if he wants, In a playthrough I've been doing, he has managed to be the highest level on the team (even higher than Avatar) in a fairly brisk run of the game, and has been incredibly clutch.
Thoughts?
I don't have much to say about Stahl because I don't know how long that his SPD is a liability. He will quickly fall behind if he can't get to doubling status (Pair-Up + tonics is fine), so unless he has the ability to man-mode half of a map like Nowi does, that could be a problem.
Your first easy Speedwing is in Chapter 16. The one is Chapter 11 is on a reinforcement unit that you're unlikely to fight (if I remember correctly... I never got it), and the next one doesn't show up until a child paralogue. This is maybe a red flag for him.
It's not a misunderstanding. The objective of any tier list is the same. I've entered discussions on FE tier lists in the past, it's only this particular FE that I don't feel breaks down into tiers clealy. Blazing Sword, for example, has a nice ratings system that makes it easy to identify what classifies as "good play," and what characters then facilitate that. [..] However, after looking over this thread I'm seeing a lot of abstract reasoning and unclear terms. I think it would be more effective if we first created a well-defined framework and language within which to operate.
Yes, it is a misunderstanding. Maybe once we get to the sixth person that disagrees with you, you might begin to realize that your (lack of) understanding is the one constant in this math equation.
We do not discuss tiering philosophy in this thread. All of us are sick to death of arguing about it with the FE Fusion refugees and their groupies. If you want to talk about Blazing Sword and the relative merit of rank-based tiering, you're going to have to do it somewhere else (I suggest General). If you want to make your own tier list for Awakening, with Blackjack and hookers, you have the blessing of every mod, woman, and child on this forum to do so in another thread.
To the part of your post that wasn't a forbidden topic: there is a lot of abstract reasoning in this thread, because 1) most of the people here understand the gist of the framework without needing it spelled out for them, and 2) specifics are an eyedropper where a bucket is still called for. The ordering of the list is still subject to sweeping changes due to the relative inexperience of all participants with this particular set of guidelines. A few of us are running playthroughs to see how some of the assumptions of the list hold up; as it turns out, there's a lot of room for improvement.
Some day the scalpel is appropriate (see: argument for Sully > Panne done by aku chi), but for a lot of comparisons, that day is not today.
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I care about Counter prior to beating Chapter 4; not so much after that. There are ways to deal with it (Sol, Galeforce, units that don't deal damage, maybe even Lethality). I personally don't care if I have to use weird tactics, or if I have tip the scales in my favor by grinding DLC; the game is already cheating as it is, so counter-cheating is Fair Game™.
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The real fun comes next chapter when Counter is added to the randomization pool.
In chapter 3, have fun with those enemies with Counters. Especially the armored enemies with Aegis+/Pavise+. Also, watch out for the enemy with the hammer. If he has hawkeye, you're screwed. Also, watch out for Archers with Pavise+/Aegis+, Counter, and Luna+.
It wasn't too bad in Ch3 for me, since I wasn't forced to use Frederick anymore. Avatar was about level 14-15 at the start of the chapter, and could handle everything herself. Counter was annoying, but Avatar 3HKOed at range (at worst) so it was generally only a problem if there were multiples in the same location and I couldn't spread them out. At least Hammerguy wasn't an issue. In fact, once the bottom had a successful clear, the rest was gravy since I had nearly unlimited kiting space.
Aegis+ was irritating.
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Yeah...not exactly. I've been a regular contributor to the Super Smash Bros tiers [...]
Like I said: fundamental misunderstanding. I'm not talking about tier lists for pseudo-fighting games; this is Fire Emblem, which you may have noticed is basically a single player game. While I'm sure you have at least two years tennis experience, and your arrival in this 44-page thread heralds the Second Coming, maybe you ought to attempt to understand what exactly it is that you're complaining about before flipping the table over.
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Voted the same. I always default to Avatar when in doubt; Veteran is just too good, so the resources don't go to waste.
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You certainly have efficiencies that could be teased out, but Lunatic is abusively hard in the earlygame when you aren't just going Avatar-solo. It takes longer to get to critical mass when you're training as many of the early units as you have in the army.
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I somehow managed to get past Chapter 2 of Lunatic+. It only took about a billion resets, after stuffing Avatar full of two chapters worth of kills. It's pretty fun how the early chapters can randomly be impossible, except by fun I mean tedious.
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I feel like there are way to many arbitrary limitations in place to make this tier list meaningful. Not only that, but the sheer number of options and possibilities in this game seriously undermine any attempt to create a stable tier list.
Now if you're going to turn this into a "Fire Emblem Nuzlocke Challenge," then we absolutely could create some sort of tier list. However, that would require more specific and expansive player-imposed rules.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tier list is for.
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Nowi + Gregor, twice on Sundays.
EDIT: I also like AvatarxChrom and LucinaxMorgan as a Fearsome Four disaster squad. The family that slays together, stays together.
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It sucks that you missed the Killer Lance; that thing helps Sumia a bunch. I tend to like to keep Avatar as a Tactician, since Swords helps early, Tomes help late, and Ignis is coming. +MAG/-SKL was a good offensive choice.
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What do you think about Anna and Libra?
Both of them are good, I just didn't use them heavily. Libra's use was mostly as a Physic/Ward bot (because he starts with C staves) and occasional Rescue (his MAG is good). Anna I only used as a thief and Rescue station (her MAG wound up being better than Libra's), although she's a good combatant. I just had too many people already being trained to use either of them to fight with.
In hindsight, I should have just stuck with one of them, because it's really hard to get someone to A staves unless you drop Arms Scrolls and/or dedicate yourself to training just that one unit. At least I never actually needed Fortify.
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This should be interesting. I'd avoid the Barracks/Anna/Tile stuff just to make it a little more repeatable.
Also, no Manaketes?
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Quick shots:
- Ch21, 5 Turns, Gregor & Nowi
- Ch22, 2 Turns, Linde & Morgan
- Ch23, 4 Turns, Gregor & Nowi -- Basically GregorxNowi and MorganxLucina went nuts on everything in this chapter while AvatarxChrom watched/applauded. Nowi is once again consistently doubling everything.
- Ch24, 6 Turns, Linde & Morgan -- an extremely annoying chapter because of reinforcements. Not worth re-doing to block the forts.
- Ch25, 5 Turns, Linde & Morgan -- made no attempt to do anything else but bulldoze my way at Aversa. Didn't use fliers, Rescue, or Dance to speed it up.
- Endgame, 1 turn -- a simple Rescue maneuver where Nowi made a hole, and MorganxChrom ran in with a Brave Lance for the kill. Fin.
The takeaways:
- Frederick: totally useless once the promoted enemies show up. Distance that I dragged him past midgame: nowhere. Relegated to Pair-Up bot only.
- Sully evaluation: an altogether excellent unit. She fell off late for me, mostly because I stopped training her.
- Sumia vs. Cordelia: depends on how you rate Sumia's earlygame. Cordelia is unequivocally the better combatant, and has no trouble keeping up with whatever that Sumia is able to put together prior to her recruitment. I feel like Cord would have done a bit better if I had given her a better partner (like Stahl). Kellam never even managed to get high enough level for a Master Seal.
- Donnel: not possible to make him something useful when moving at a fast pace. This was with giving him the best support partner, and as many kills as I could afford. He's garbage. G-A-R-B-A-G-E.
- N.O.W.I. is unbelievably good in Hard Mode. Immediately useful, and lots of clutch performances all the way to the end. And this was with her being slightly SPD screwed.
- Morgan was sneaky-good because of Aptitude. This was unexpected.
I'll post the final stats later, when the forums stop being broken.
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Im ashamed to say this but.....
The first time i beat Lunatic
I grind spotpass which is oh so conveniently made to be grinded
The second time i used Dagda
Hopefully the time will come when i did not use some cheap tricks
There's no shame in grinding to beat Lunatic. It takes a certain amount of prowess just to get to a place where you can even do that in the first place. You'll have something to aspire to for a future run.
Count me in, I just completed lunatic a few minutes ago
Nice work.
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OP updated with Chapters 18, 19, and 20. Not much to them.
[spoiler=Chapter 18, Sibling Blades]
MorganxLinde rush straight down the middle at the boss. I get a little EXP into Nowi, Cordelia, and Chrom (who promotes). I ignore the treasure. I have a feeling that these write-ups are going to be really short from now on.
Turns (Chapter/Total): 6/103
Heroes: Linde & Morgan
Funds: 51,069G
Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 1.62 40 23 4 18 18 16 21 10 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 9.29 47 24 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 11.66 45 25 24 17 27 17 21 15 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 13.70 66 43 24 31 36 34 36 22 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 2.60 60 24 9 21 15 22 20 18 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 13.82 33 13 1 15 11 8 11 2 B Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C Linde[spoiler=Chapter 19, The Conquerer]
SullyxChrom left fort, NowixGregor upper right, LindexMorgan straight up the middle towards Walhart. Mash the START button. There's a high chance that Walhart dies during Turn 2 Enemy Phase, but he managed to dodge one of Linde's Dual Strikes. Just as well, means more EXP for everyone.
Turns (Chapter/Total): 3/106
Heroes: Gregor & Nowi
Funds: 51,069G
Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 3.68 42 23 4 20 19 16 23 11 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 9.81 47 24 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 12.27 46 26 24 17 27 17 21 16 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 17.74 70 46 24 31 39 36 38 24 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 10.37 68 27 10 25 17 28 25 23 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 14.31 34 13 1 16 12 9 12 2 A Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C LindeGregor hits A-rank Sword. This is impressive for someone who hasn't seen Lead unit combat for the entire game.
[spoiler=Chapter 20, The Sword of the Knee]
I promoted Gregor to Bow Knight, because why not. Nowi doesn't need the extra durability anymore, it gives the same SPD/SKL as Hero, but also has +1 MV and the option for 8MV on the first turn. I had to go back to Southtown to buy him a bow that he could equip.
NowixGregor and LindexMorgan blast their way up the center of the map. Nowi takes most of the abuse, and uses her Player Phase to clear space for Morgan to get through. Walhart dies on Turn 4 (another chapter where if he had not dodged Linde's Dual Strike, it would have been a Turn earlier).
SullyxChrom just mess around on the wings and kill whatever they can for EXP.
Turns (Chapter/Total): 4/110
Heroes: Gregor & Nowi
Funds: 51,069G
Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 4.31 43 24 4 21 20 16 23 11 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 11.48 49 24 10 29 23 22 23 13 A Sword/Lance S Chrom Linde 12.50 46 26 24 17 27 17 21 16 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 20.00 73 47 24 31 39 38 41 25 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc A Linde No One Will Interfere 16.58 75 33 13 28 20 33 29 24 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 1.48 40 16 1 18 15 9 13 4 A Sword, E Bow S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C LindeLindexMorgan is now A-rank, and Morgan is capped at level 20 GK. I'm not sure whether I want to try another class, or just stick with GK (reclass) since it has the highest STR cap. Gregor somehow managed to make it almost to D Bows; apparently you get WEXP for tinks.
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OP updated with Chapter 17. This log is going to be drawing to a rapid close, I think; Morgan is just a beast.
[spoiler=Chapter 17, Inexorable Death]
The nature of the rest of the game is taking shape at this point; MorganxLinde is simply unstoppable. Although this map has treasure on it, there's nothing that I really care for (Boots are nice, but I wouldn't be giving them to anyone anyway), so it's a straight training map while Morgan blasts his way to the boss.
NowixGregor take the left hand side (she has stopped doubling now, and needs a little bit more training before her reclass), ChromxSully handle the middle with help from Sumia, and MorganxLinde handle the right hand side. I give Morgan a quick Dance (Olivia rescued out of the way afterwards) in order to break through and barrel towards the boss. He cleanly ORKOs everything with Javelins, including the boss, which is a little bit absurd.
Actually, that's a lot absurd.
Turns (Chapter/Total): 4/97
Heroes: Linde & Morgan
Funds: 51,069G
Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 19.90 34 18 4 15 15 16 17 6 A Sword S Sully Sully 8.45 46 23 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 10.79 44 25 24 16 27 16 20 15 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 7.89 60 38 20 28 31 29 33 19 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 28.74 56 22 9 19 15 19 18 16 - S Gregor Cordelia 5.51 45 21 13 24 24 16 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 2.93 34 14 9 25 28 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.53 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 13.25 33 13 1 15 11 8 11 2 B Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 4.97 39 13 20 26 23 28 10 11 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C LindeMorganxLinde built to B-rank. I am compressing/splitting the stat chart up at this point, since realistically the list of actually-used units is very low.
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I used to neglect using Olivia; then I got good at the game.
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Chrom is just... kind of a mediocre unit. His PRF is cool, but that's about it.
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Gangrel survival is only weird one.
And he uses the Basilio Rule of Cool™, making everything right with the world.
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Morgan's chapter is a Kill Boss, so even more reason to do that one, since you can rush it easily. A one-turn is surely possible.
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Its like.... the game want us to sympathize with the girl, except the dialogue are just..... not well made
MAYBE its because Fiora does the same back in FE7, which make her intro feels like a cheap, reused scene that we have seen before, but seriously instead of feeling sad or something, her introduction is more like "WTFJUSTHAPPENEDANDWHOTHEHELLISTHATGIRL" kind of scene.
How can you not feel anything during Cordelia's intro? That chapter was jam-packed with emotions! It was sadder than a dead kitten. Not only Cordelia's part, but the effect it had on the story going forward from that point.
Are you a human being?
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Personally? Cordelia has cheap introduction which make me want to throw up
What? You think her intro is cheap? May all of your 99% listed HIT chances miss, fiend.
FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List
in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Posted
So here's my issue with Rightful King: with the exception of the Sol portion of Aether, it only matters when you can't ORKO something to begin with, and if you're in a position where you can't ORKO, you're already in the gutter offensively (because Hard mode). Nowi never gets an activation skill; she also doesn't care, because if she's doubling, the target is dead anyway. While it's nice for Chrom (and kid), it's nice because Chrom isn't that great to begin with. Also takes quite a while to get there, in terms of investment of resources (except for Morgan, but Morgan doesn't need skill activations, either).
Rapier is nice (because Valm), and so is Falchion (both versions), but Chrom has real issues with consistent 1-2 range combat. Rapier is also mutually exclusive with Cavalier. Admittedly, Chrom is probably the greatest Pair Up partner in the entire playable cast, but it's hard to give him S-tier credit for efficient completion as a Support unit.