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Paperblade, what are you basing the not-mafia read on Shin from?

I can't remember whether or not you're allowing thieves to lockpick doors and chests. Free lockpicking and stats is all Rennac has over base Colm. If you're not using thieves for chests and you don't need two thieves on C15, I don't think you need Rennac.

ballsybumblingmotorcycle? more like BALLSYBAMFMOTORCYCLE AWW YEAHHHHH @Grassbridger- The latter thing might be something that a townie might do accidentally. The odds of a townie seeing people telling him to empower Shinori and then just choosing not to are comparatively much worse, which is what I said to Objection when he spoke about doing it this night phase just now. I guess that makes sense wrt Refa.

lol really I don't really like how Refa conveniently came into the thread right after getting shot, but I'm not sure whether or not he'd just lie there. I'd still like him to respond to my case, and to update reads and stuff. It doesn't assume optimal play, it assumes that Objection isn't stupid. And if Objection had been like "I didn't empower Shinori because I thought he was scum", I would have considered that way scummier than saying he simply didn't see the plan to have him empower Shinori.

You took what I said you were doing about the "he'd have a better excuse as scum" argument and said the exact same thing, just leaving Shin's name out this time. And I don't see what's scummy with not tying it to his scumread on Shinori. Seriously, where's the scum intent in that?

Sorry, fixed. I forgot for a second that you were voting Shin and not him.

Your entire vote on Objection consists of him not empowering Shinori. When it was pointed out to you that if Objection was scum he'd have a better excuse for not doing so, your response was "not if Shin is Objection's scumbuddy".

Refa is most definitely on his computer. Pretty sure he's purposely avoiding the thread. If Prims doesn't modkill him, shoot him IMO. You didn't say that you were voting Kay only for the personal attack, and you did specify other reasons for the Kay vote not quoted here, but saying that you never directly said you were voting her for a personal attack isn't true. I'm pretty sure Refa is scum, and I want a dayvig shot on him, but my vote there is useless while he doesn't post. ##Unvote Not sure if I want to vote Shin or Grassbridger. I don't like how Grassbridger seems to base stuff off associative reads without a flip, but Shin's posts have looked contradictory in several places. Kay's frustration looks sort of genuine and it makes me not want to vote her.

>_> Objection, you'd better empower Shinori in the future. If he's scum, the worst that happens is that our chance of blocking the kill reduces, if he takes the kill in the first place. Except if he's scum, the mafia clearly didn't have him take it on N1, so saying you're not going to empower him doesn't harm him in any way if he's scum, since his role is not especially useful for the mafia. However, if he's town, it means that we can't use our strongest power role without leaving it open to getting nightkilled by the mafia. Townread or not, if you don't empower Shinori tonight, I won't defend you from lynches. As for Weapons voting Jalmont over Shinori, that was more a point in Jalmont's favour than a point against Shinori. In that situation, even though Shinori was a plausible lynch, the only case in which Weapons would vote for him is the case where Jalmont is his scumbuddy. Otherwise if both Jalmont and Shinori are town, it just makes more sense to vote the one with more votes on them, Jalmont. Scorri, you didn't actually respond back to what I said in response to your defence of Refa.

Neimi

If he has no new posts, shouldn't your opinion of him have stayed the same? Your opinion earlier was slightly scummy. I can understand if you reread and start looking upon the same stuff slightly differently, but that's not what you're stating.

I don't think it's quite mod meta as much as the mod just clarifying basic things about the rules/mechanics.

I had enough of that PR in Spellcard. If you give it to me I will take Paperblade's Dayvig and shoot you. I don't really like GB's Objection vote. Even if the entire scumteam DIDN'T realize that Paperblade doesn't make sense for a fake target, by the time Objection posted, Shin's mistake had already been pointed out. There's no way of proving whom Objection targeted- we just know he didn't target Shinori. Why wouldn't Objection then have lied and said that he targeted someone completely else?

Also, Shin (not to be confused with Also Shin), in #424 you said that you could see my point about Refa and that you find him somewhat scummy. Yet in #486, your latest post, you said that you can't really find anything that pins him as scum. Why the disconnect? It's particularly weird because in this post you point out some somewhat suspicious stuff right before that. Why does none of that amount to anything more than a null read?

Also with the Weapons part- it still seems odd to say that he completely would not lynch Weapons just because he perceives Jalmont as scummier. I think part of the reason I'm having trouble reading Cam is because I can't even remember the last time he was this active, so I have no idea what bar to compare him to. I approve of the PR btw.

Here are the relevant parts of Refa's list-post. First off, the Weapons read. Yes, I can see why he wouldn't want to lynch a null read over a scumread. However, look at what he actually says about Weapons. He points out something suspicious that Weapons does, and that's it. There's nothing townie here to balance out Weapons's suspicious waffling that could make this read result in null. It feels like distancing from a scumbuddy while still trying not to get him lynched. As for the part on me- yes, he lists Shinori as one of the people I'm trying to direct attention to. But he also lists SB/Boron/Shin, and the only time I talked about the former two, at least, was in relation to asking Refa why he wasn't looking at the people on the Objection wagon if he thought it was bad. There are only two things redirecting attention could mean. Either it means that I'm trying to redirect attention away from myself or I'm trying to direct Refa's attention somewhere. I already explained how the latter makes no sense, and the former doesn't either because the only person who was suspicious of me was Shinori. Refa wasn't suspicious of me at that point, so why would I need to redirect his attention away from myself? And as for me directing attention towards Shinori... obviously I'm going to try to talk a lot about how my main scumread is scummy.

Like Paperblade said, for Objection to be scum, his scumbudd(y/ies) would have had to all not realize that Paperblade is a Dayvig and a not a Nightvig. If Objection was going to use the "sorry I derped" excuse as scum, I feel like he at least would have picked somebody with a night action, like the Tracker. Paperblade you should shoot Refa imo. More in the evening, gotta rush to class sorry.

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. You point out a bunch of scumtells and then conclude with a nulltell even though the towntells you present to balance out the previously mentioned scumtells seem comparatively weak. So to me it feels like you're pushing me while trying to distance yourself from the lynch by saying you have a nulltell on me.

Me saying my pride was offended was mostly a turn of phrase. You didn't really respond to most of the post though, just the first two lines.

Sorry, I was afk with the thread open. I'm conflicted on Cam. Something about his tone feels town but I'm not particularly impressed with his content. It's not bad exactly, it's just that I've disagreed with most of what he's said so far. I think Refa and Kay are scum. I can sort of see Cam's point about how Kay persisting with an unpopular opinion even while getting flak for it is a towntell, but since I'm way too impatient to wait for Objection to show up, I might as well point out that she and Objection are the only people who possess public roles capable of causing Shinori to not be able to go through the jail- one through action and the other through inaction. And I think Kay is more likely to be scum than Objection.

Jalmont pretty much has to have been scumshot, either mafia or SK, since all three people who could have been the source of a town kill on him indicated some level of townread on him.

If there's a SK, they can presumably shoot someone in addition to their actual given role, so none of the mystery roles need to be some sort of Vig that went to scum. If there's only one kill tomorrow night then we'll know that there's no SK and at that point we can start lynching between me/Boron/Cam but at this point that's not confirmed.

Why the disconnect? All Scorri really said is that you should look at the results from any reaction test you pull.

Shin, Paperblade has been one of the foremost defenders of Jalmont. Why would he shoot him?

That's a good point I guess. @Cam- What I was thinking is that one of the mystery roles had to be a 1-shot vig or something that went to scum, but I guess it's possible for someone to be an SK. That makes more sense than the mafia shooting Jalmont over Paperblade.