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Dunno why I left her out of #167. Someone (either Grass or Objection) said something about her going from voting Jal to voting someone on Jal's wagon. I also don't really like her Boron vote because Boron never dismissed Jal's reads. She just said that he was being unnecessarily wordy and making his content out to be more than it really was, and asked him for more. Kay also says that while Jalmont actually has done a lot in his recent posts and is therefore not as high priority for a lynch, she'd still be completely okay with lynching him, and not entirely for consolidation either, as Kay had said that she still thought his theorizing could be a reasonable excuse for being dead weight as scum. I need to reread her properly but I still think she's scummy.

If I had to give a FoS at this point, it would have be to Kay, because this sort of thing is unnecessarily provocative even if she's joking.

When I asked Boron about possible D2 LYLO, all she said was that this game was approved to run and is therefore at least somewhat balanced. And imbalanced setups aren't generally very cool for the sides that they're balanced against. Kay, if Shinori always acts scummy, even as town, then doesn't mean that he might not be most likely to be scum even if he's acting scummiest?

Okay, well, the point is that you most likely would not have started off the day phase with a vote for Weapons. As for Shinori not putting effort into planning- you must not have read Haphazard, where he claimed Town Fullcop and then bussed his Interceptor so that he wouldn't get lynched.

Also I asked Boron if the phase during which people post could change, and she said that it couldn't.

Man, when I asked to be night-phase so that I could be lazy, I didn't expect everyone else who posts frequently to also get assigned night phase. If it was one 4p mafia split evenly between day and night, it would be 5/2 among the day-talkers to start stuff off, so the mafia could have lynch control by like D3 in our worst case scenario. Therefore I think that it's more likely that it's multiball, but with each side having one day person and one night person, rather than just a day mafia and a night mafia. I mean, yeah, the day-talkers can lynch night-talkers, but it's unlikely because the night-talkers can't respond to much and so voting for them is basically a votepark. A mafia that was composed completely of night-talkers would have a huge advantage over a mafia composed completely of day-talkers that I don't think role strength on the part of the day-mafia could make up for. Two mafias each having one person in the day and one person in the night weakens the amount of lynch control anti-town can get in the day phase. I also think that town probably has a day Mayor, and IMO they should claim D1 and mayor test to prove themselves, and then get doc protection.

It sort of does IMO because at that point, Jalmont had 4 votes and Shinori had 2. Shinori was still a plausible lynch candidate to try and gun for to get the lynch away from himself if Jalmont was also scum. wrt to scum saccing a buddy for towncred- I think that's only if the buddy is looking irrevocably scummy. But Weapons was a main wagon due to shitty pressure votes. It would have been really easy for him to bounce back on D2. Also consider that of the people voting him, Grassbridger's vote was sort of weak and in #184, stated that Weapons wasn't a top scumread and wasn't pinging him any more than Jalmont. Paperblade, SB, and Cam all voted him for consolidation purposes, and most likely none of them would have voted for him again next phase. So only Shinori, Kirsche, me, and Boron were actually voting him for finding him scummy. And even then both Boron and I only switched for consolidation, and so might not have voted him next phase either. By contrast, starting a wagon on a buddy is something that scum are more likely to do because it doesn't actually have to lead anywhere that phase, and can just be a way to get in an early distancing attempt for later. Also while I called Jalmont's posts a tl;dr, I did make an attempt to skim them at least.

It's already 24 hours shorter than most day phases on SF; I don't think that cutting it by another three hours is really a good idea.

TBH this is sort of late for me now that school will be starting. I would prefer phase to start a couple hours earlier than this, but I doubt people want to wait for almost another 24 hours.

confirming

Scorri, do you still think that Jalmont is scum?

I highly discourage people from giving Shinori a beta key to a game that he wants to play, because it means that he will probably only post once a phase.

There's nothing I just stated about Objection that he can really state himself because self-meta is super scummy when it's not being used as a defence against a meta attack. Something about Grassbridger's posts bothers me but I can't say what other than that I disagree with most of what he says. I'd reread but I already put too much effort into this game for one day. Okay, I got Whip and Hi-Jump as fakes. Prims said that I got character fakes in case my role went to scum and they wanted fake flavour for a fakeclaim (though idrk what the point is because I'm not sure how many people here are even familiar with Kirby flavour). He wouldn't confirm whether everyone got two unique fakes though, so I just wanted to check that, not that it really matters much.

Scorri probably wouldn't want to rub you the right way anyways. Can you reveal which Kirbies you were given as fakes, Boron? I want to check something that Prims wouldn't confirm.

I forget why I never used to post at night in night-talk games; it's basically godmode.

Boron did you get character fakes?

Yeah, I'd still like Objection to talk about test results ofc. I also have somewhat of a gut townread on Scorri because as mafia she lurks at the beginning and uses the fact that she used to die early a lot as an excuse, whereas as town she's realized that this is not pro-town and therefore doesn't do it at much. This is reasoning that will probably stop working next game but

I don't either normally, but I would if someone asked, which I think Objection would do.

Well the thing is, I think there are some things that are optimal for mafia to do in a common sense way that are separate from things that are optimal for them as far as looking townie goes. I think telling the guy that gets wagoned every game not to do something that's purposely scummy when he's not even going to come back to talk about how it was actually a reaction test for another 24 hours falls in the former category. SUMMARY Town me SB Boron Paperblade Kirsche Jalmont Shinori Objection

tbf there's a difference between randomness in a role (which Prims is well-known for disliking anyways) and randomness in alignment assignment

lol Waffling on Objection but I think he's town because (more meta yay) in his last game as scum, he was really unsure in the mafia qt and asked opinions in the mafia QT from his scumbuddies before almost every other post. I think if he were scum, he would he would have asked his buddies before pulling that reaction test, and they would have told him not to do it after what happened in Masquerade, where Kay got lynched for pulling that and then not really doing much afterwards. Objection normally only posts a couple posts, at one time, in a day, and is also new and often gets wagoned D1, so it makes little tactical sense to give him the green light for something like that.

I was rereading the thread today and I actually think Refa is scum. a) I don't like his reasoning about Weapons in his last list-post. The only thing he states about Weapons in the way of an alignment-tell is his Jalmont waffling (a scum-tell), yet he still says that he wouldn't support a Weapons lynch, just because Jal is scummier. This is odd reasoning. Why does Jalmont being scummier prevent Weapons from being a good wagon? Sure, you'd want to lynch a #1 scumread over a #2, but it's not like you'd be opposed to lynching #2 if that was also valid. b) His reasoning for the scumread on me sucks. He talks about how I'm redirecting attention to SB/Boron/Shin, but the only time I ever talk about finding any of them scummy (other than asking Shin why he has no opinions and then later listing him last in a wagon consolidation order) is asking Refa to expand on his opinion that voting Objection for his RVS overreaction was bad. At that point, Refa was voting for Shinori- the same person I was voting for. Where's the scum intent in directing Refa away from the person I'd presumably be trying to mislynch if I were scum? Additionally, he talks about how Jalmont, Kay, and I all seem suspicious of each other in our exchanges, yet never actually vote for each other, even though I'd stated explicitly at that point that I thought Jalmont was more likely to be town than scum. c) His reasoning for the scumread on Kay also sucks. First off, he talks about how Kay is scummy for defending me and Jalmont when in just the last paragraph, he talked about how Kay/Jalmont/me all seemed to be distancing ourselves from one another. The rest of his scumread is just for having different reads from himself even though townies are uninformed and can therefore be wrong (and often are unless you're me). d) He seems to try and push for lynches on me/Kay/Jalmont half on associative reads of us having "back-and-forths". Like I don't really understand how that's scummy in any way, and pushing associative lynches without a flip is scummy too. e) His tone in almost all his posts seems to be really self-deprecating in a scummy way, because he uses it to offset his reads a lot of the time. What's also of note is that he wasn't even a little self-deprecating in his first game as town, and it makes no sense that he'd suddenly become self-deprecating after a game where almost everyone praised his play as being really good for a first-timer. f) This is small but I wouldn't put it past Prims to purposely assign Refa as scum because he did so well as town in his first game.

Oh yeah, I also think Shinori is more likely to be town because he was the first person to call out Weapons for the shitty pressure votes at a point where Weapons was more or less getting away with it. Not as strong as the other three because Shinori might have assumed that Weapons would step up his posts at some point, so he tried to get in an easy early distancing attempt. But I probably won't return my vote here at least for a while.

Oh shit, I didn't realize that Hated worked in LYLO. Nvm not worth the WIFOM.

Not really, everyone is going to be careful of voting for a Hated. If I were scum, I'd give it to a buddy. It's a nulltell IMO. I agree with Paperblade's reasoning and would have done the exact same as him fwiw. Also I think Paperblade/SB/Boron are obvtown because of the Weapons flip. Paperblade had spoken against both the Jalmont and the Weapons lynches, and therefore could have picked Jalmont just as easily to consolidate on over Weapons, at a point when Jalmont was leading 6-5 with very little time left in the phase. Only makes sense if both Jalmont and Weapons are scum, but I doubt it because I didn't think that Jalmont was scummy anyways, and Weapons also tried to push Jalmont as a counterwagon to his own lynch at a point when Shinori as a lynch still wasn't implausible. SB is town for putting the vote at 4-3 for Weapons when it was tied at 3-3, and also calling out Cam being in-thread with 10 minutes left, when that was an unnecessary action for scum. Boron is town for swinging the wagons from 6-6 to 7-5 in favour of Weapons when all the people in the thread (me, Paperblade, SB) were voting for Weapons and would have been forced to switch to Jalmont to secure a lynch had she not switched first.