BBM

I just came home and I'm pretty exhausted so you guys aren't going to get much from me, sorry. I also have to leave at 6 AM tomorrow so I'm not even sure if I'll have time to post in the morning. I said we should lynch one of the protective claims bc rolespec wise there pretty much has to be scum among the 4 people I mentioned, but I wasn't sure which one of Eclipse/Corinthian would be best to vote for and didn't have time to think about it, so I just voted Shin because he was my strongest scumread based on play. but with Shin's claim of a 1x poison doctor and SB's claim of full poison doctor, I'm rather sure Shin's scum too. Poison doctor is too specific a role and too specific a counter to a scum role for it to be represented with both a full-time role and a 1x role. What if the poisoner was lynched d1? the switch from announcer to rolecop for the n1 action and then belatedly giving a result on the dead dude is suspicious too. My feeling is that he was faking and making a story up on the spot, which is why he kept changing it. @sb/shin- does your poison doctor block the poison if you target the victim on the night they're poisoned, or on the night they would die? dinner now

deciding how much of a role type is too much would be way easier if Elie hadn't previously hosted a game where town had a Rolecop, Cop, and Trackerwatcher

wait what I'm a Doctor (who empowers his target on N1). I was hesitantly okay with BG + Doc + Watcher in a #Eliegame since I thought Corinthian's outburst upon being prodded by Life was townie, but I can't see BG + Doc + BPV + Watcher all existing. BPV is passive so it can't circlejerk like the others but it's still becoming too much. Also what's a PPV? Shin's post isn't... bad, but it's not that impressive and all his reads just seem really back-and-forth, particularly on Refa. I'm not really seeing where Refa was that defensive either? He brings up a good point against Snike I guess, but the Prims modkill point is bad bc Baldrick was getting lynched anyways. The modkill helped scum by cutting the phase short and, obfuscating Baldrick's story (and also Life got modkilled too) idk overall this post is just kind of overall blah. The post doesn't change my opinion of the slot as a whole. @Refa- I don't know what you mean wrt to SSG? In my sub-in post I was null about SSG I think, and then in my next post about him I said that I didn't see the cases on him. Then yesterday night I said I thought he was town. I guess it's an escalation from "not scum" to "town" but it's not really a change in read? Also, I swear I thought I'd changed my vote to Izhuark/Shin because I've been more suspicious of Izhuark than Crysta since around #695 but uh I guess I didn't. gg ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shin for now I guess but it would probably be more prudent to lynch between myself/Corinthian/Eclipse/Refa. On one hand I'm leaning towards Eclipse bc I think Corinthian and Refa have been townier but I also think that Corinthian's role is fisher wrt rolespec at this point? Plus as I said earlier scum didn't try to kill Corinthian? The whole random-kill thing is something I'm not fully agreeing with. If one of Eury/Zero was killed N2 and the other was poisoned N1, that means there are two night phases of questionable targets, including one when Baldrick was alive. I guess if it was an ITP poisoning on N1, maybe it leaves a random-kill open but ehhh. Also, Baldrick has a history of tactical modkills when he's about to be lynched (as either alignment in fact, see: Spellcard) so I'm really taking his pre-modkill actions with a grain of salt, especially because Elie hasn't confirmed whether Baldrick was telling the truth about his role or not. >_>

iirc I said what I thought about SSG? His posts weren't extremely original or anything but it seemed like he was putting in effort and stuff and the listpost at least seemed well reasoned? I also thought his excitement at what he perceived was an original point on Prims felt genuine. I don't think he's scum. If it came to the point where I was considering voting him (without any investigative role impetus at least), I'd be re-evaluating some of my previous townreads as well. I don't really think Elie refusing to c/d is indicative but I'll think about it more in the shower tomorrow.

@eclipse- baldrick complains, yeah, but he doesn't say they're inactive? Plus it was right before Baldrick modkilled himseld tactically so I don't know if it's even a trustworthy post. I'm so tired I can barely type so I'm going to sleep. I'm probably going to claim in the morning if neither Mitsuki nor Refa unvotes I guess? I'm going to be coming home late again tomorrow so realistically I'm going to make like one post tomorrow, two or three next evening, and one the morning after, so I want to claim well ahead of time.

@Refa- I don't think your meta wrt the Game-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named is correct. In that game, Izhuark consistently gave scumreads even if they weren't that good. This game is just Izhuark speaking vaguely about game theory regarding questions and obvious answers, all as part of a soft defence on Blitz, and promising content and never delivering. The few posts he had didn't really have the scumhunting drive that he did in the other game. I'm sure what he said about not being in a mafia mindset was true, but I don't think that's enough to explain it. And yeah as you said Shin hasn't even read D4. With Gaius, I agree with what Refa pointed out about his D1 issues. I also don't like his stance towards Eury; defending her with regards to one part of the case and then saying "but overall I still think she's scummy" feels like cheerleading the wagon while distancing himself. He doesn't vote her until much later and it's well timed to just be an attempt to save Blitz. Also maybe I'm misunderstanding something but how can he rag on kirsche for taking an interest in "unconsequential things like Life's position" considering Gaius himself was voting Life up to that point? Stance on Blitz is scummy in #223: "Blitz is inactive but Blitz is scummy but Eury is worse but would still switch to Blitz at deadline". It also seems to contain a lot of "good job newbie!" townreads which isn't explicitly scummy I guess but the townreads are largely unprompted and not about people under serious lynch consideration and not part of a post giving general opinions on everyone. On D2 he just sheeped Gilgamesh and then disappeared when Gilgamesh scumreads happened, though I'm probably being unfair since I think he was "subbing out". THE PROBLEM HOWEVER is that Eclipse's posts read generally town to me. From what I remember scum Eclipse does a lot of voting people for playing in a way she doesn't agree with or is "bad" as opposed to actual gameplay reasons. The closest she comes to that is Gilgamesh wrt why he didn't target Corinthian, but even that is tied back to scum intent. Also, I was thinking earlier for reasons why scum wouldn't go for Corinthian and all I can think of is that maybe they were trying to dodge the Watcher? That would imply town Gaius/Eclipse. But then I'm not sure why they wouldn't simply kill them as opposed to Eury/zero, unless they had rolecop reports or something. idk. Overall I guess I'm mildly suspicious of Gaius/Eclipse but I'd rather lynch Izhuark first.

@mitsuki- you don't analyze every little thing someone does, no, but you do have to consider it. You can't just go "yeah not going to talk about this half of someone's content". What does not relevant even mean? Everything non-spam related is relevant to figuring out someone's alighment. Arguably spam is too. just came home so going to eat dinner first

@corinthian- I have another role which is my primary role. empowerer was a 1x buff to that role. I don't really consider hijacker to be a protective role, no. I see it as one of those "other" roles like motivator and neighbour (anyone who says neighbour is investigative is trying to pigeonhole roles). @crysta- I'll grant that I misunderstood your Eury post at the start of D2 and I also forgot that you were persuaded at the start of D2 and therefore couldn't vote Eury. But I still don't see why you voted for SSG out of all the lurkers. Okay, he was online and didn't post. Why not vote izhuark, who was a lurker you actually had more issues with? this was before shin subbed in iirc. Also, by "null reads are lame" idk if you mean that you have a null read on him and that's lame, or he has a lot of null reads. Also yeah you followed up to Eury's reply but it's not really addressed directly to her? This may be semantic but it seems as if you were speaking about her, not to her, past your initial vote post anyways. eclipse/gaius read will have to be at night since I have to leave in 10 minutes. I'll be back in ~14 hours.

SEBASTIAN GIOVINCO just broke the mls record for points in a season. I think Toronto FC just clinched a playoff spot for the first time too

wow I read izhuark and he has way less d1 stuff than I thought he did. I thought he had a listpost but I must have mixed him and SSG up. izhuark just pseudo-defends blitz but never gives his own opinion on blitz's life case, just talking about how it's good to ask the obvious questions. He says he'll ask questions, never does, talks about rolespec vaguely but never offers it, and then when he comes back at phase end he says the blitz case is good even though he was against it earlier. would support a lunch.

I thought they were both scum and thought that a scum hijacker would be more dangerous. I can't remember whether or not I believed Baldrick was the SK (I think I did) but either way I just thought it'd be more important to get rid of a hijacker. fair enough with PoE I guess but at least with SB when he said my content was unimpressive I took it to mean since I actually only had the one content post. I don't think anyone directly said my sub-in post was unimpressive, though I may be wrong. I read SSG and... I'm not seeing it? Like, yeah, his Blitz vote isn't much and kind of generic, and most of his posts don't say much, but the listpost (#151) seemed well reasoned and thoughtful considering it's his first game, and I saw him making efforts to read people and stuff. I'm kind of wondering why the mafia didn't try killing corinthian tbh. ugh.

but... all you said about me is that "SB explained it best", and SB's case was just "I'm wary of BBM because he promised reads and then never delivered" from #537. afaicr on D2 you were suspicious but after the part where you thought I was the scum hijacker (as in, before gilgamesh claimed), you dropped the vote and were just questioning me that's a good point with Baldrick I guess... if he just wanted to bus a buddy he'd be more likely to just vote blitz. I suppose if he wanted to distance without bussing but it's kind of a stretch at this point. @crysta- who are your current scumreads? going to read SSG and izhuark/shin next. I'm going to leave the gaius/eclipse slot until tomorrow because that sounds like a lot more work and I'm really tired. with Izhuark I thought his posts came across as lost but kind of honest, which is why I thought he was town. I also didn't think scum izhuark would be the coasting type?

@sb- are you a survivor? Why did you confirm the poisoner's existence when there's apparently a good reason for you not to? I reread Baldrick's case against Crysta. He's fairly strong about it on D1 but then he actually pseudo-defends her on D2 when pushing Gilgamesh, although tbf that just might be because he was trying anything to survive. His other main read of the day was Blitz so I'm also seeing it as plausible that he just wanted to bus a buddy and switched to one with lesser pressure on them, though this may just be me seeing scum intent because I want to see it. I find it troubling that the mafia have a poisoner and an (alleged) weak-maker. That's a lot of potential extra killing power for scum to have. Are we sure that the poisoner isn't ITP or something?

I'm going to eat dinner now so more will have to be later

votes on me suck. I made my first sub-in post friday night right before sleeping and then I procrastinated on reading people for literally only one day; phase ended early on sunday morning before I even checked the thread. but I'm going to give fuel to the votes by saying up front that there's too much spam at this point and I don't have time to reread the thread fully. So I'm going to ISO people. thoughts are on Crysta: crysta is scum. Her first content was sheeping the ED1 case on Eury, and then she just stuck to it. She talks to Mitsuki about how she's more concerned with engaging Eury directly than trying to convince other people, except the latter is pretty much what she does. She also talks about how it's not important to pick apart everything in Eury's posts, just the stuff she finds relevant. This basically means she was just cherrypicking the questionable stuff Eury put out without looking at her content holistically. The rest of her D1 content is waffling to no opinion on zero's newbplay and Life. D2 content is mostly also just parroting opinions on Gilgamesh and Corinthian. She says she's "still a little uneasy" about Eury which implies lessening suspicion on Eury... why? she never really says, my suspicion is it's because Eury was no longer really a valid lynch option. Then on D3 she just votes SSG on inactivity even though she'd never been suspicious of him before or taking his past content into account. This is not good enough for D3. wrt scum interactions- she also dithers around on Blitz and soft-defends him, which is pretty suspicious. Interactions with Baldrick are better for her because he pushed her on D1 when it probably would have made more sense to push Eury as a counterwagon to Blitz. I'm going to reread Baldrick's D1 case against her but regardless I don't think it makes up for everything else. ##Vote: Crysta @corinthian- I did in fact target you but you just weren't empowered since it wasn't my first time using the action. wrt rolespec about investigation roles- are people forgetting that Life was an investigative role? He was basically a nerfed alt-night cop. also I see something about a rolecop claim- who claimed rolecop I must have missed that? someone said something about it not making sense for there to be a hijacker + doc/bg. Snike maybe? why is this?

Gilgamesh's prims case sucks. Prims was the first one to say Gilgamesh was scum hijacker afaicr and the rest of it mainly boils down to "Prims was really good scum in Greatest Hits". Also gilgamesh I mainly didn't vote you because I was too lazy and because there's no need atm. @Refa- good point about sb. now I'm thinking that maybe eclipse/gaius is scum and sb is town. sigh. going to sleep. also I was out shopping all day today and then was practicing my french for hours when I got back. tomorrow I swear I am going to reread people.

oh yeah whoops

so scum's N1 kill was hooked, hit a bpv, or blocked by a doc. cool.

I think it should wait until after FE9 mafia ends but you can maybe post signups since it's winding down?

ehhh I still think we should lynch Gilgamesh. If we lynch baldrick they hijack corinthian and kill sb if he's town. baldrick can vig gaius for us imo. his d1 play was meh and he came out hard buddying gilgamesh eclipse is town probably for getting gilgamesh lynched so while cop+watcher isn't impossible since #eliegames, sb might be scum rolecop/fullcop. But he'll PoE himself down pretty fast if he is so he can survive for now.

I'm only an empowerer on n1. but after gilgamesh dies it's unlikely scum will have anything to interfere with roles on top of a hooker and hijacker?

yeah because I empowered you. read my posts yo. @refa- My role is actually something different but the first time I use it, it has the added effect of being an empower too. Otherwise my role would just be strictly better than kirsche's yeah. I thought I did say that Gilgamesh was probably scum even though Elie fixed his mistake? If I didn't I probably thought it was too obvious. Also I was debating between whether Baldrick or Gilgamesh would be better to lynch and I think Gilgamesh would be a better lynch bc he can interfere with our roles. Baldrick should be vigged, or we can otherwise lynch him tomorrow. Since scum have a hooker and a hijacker it's unlikely that Baldrick can also interfere with town's roles directly. Worst case is that he's a hitman I guess, but odds are he's just a scum info role. Corinthian should target SB.

Life- do you think that Corinthian is scumbuddies with Gilgamesh, based on their interactions in thread? Do you think that his breakdown is faked?

@Life- firing passive aggressive shots at the host does nothing to further your wincon, whatever alignment you are, and just makes you look like a petulant brat. so yeah I guess there was a mod mistake. gilgamesh is probably still scum. in hindsight it probably wasn't necessary for me to out in thread but I was so confused bc when I originally saw Prims's claim I was thinking of Revolutionary Girl Utena mafia on MotK where Prims randomly faked beinghooked as scum. but then gilgamesh actually claimed hijacker so I was like wtf. cut by corinthian- >_>

I don't know what's going on. I empowered Prims last night and received confirmation that I was successful. My empower makes people immune to both roleblocks and redirects. Going to ask if Elie made a mistake. @gilgamesh- I specifically said that my post was constructed in N1 and therefore it wasn't taking your corinthian case into account. going to catch up properly.