BBM

I could make a setup and then rng the roles to the slots and just put some posting restrictions in? NSFMM4 ended up being too much like an actual SFMM game.

interactions with Refa ?_? neither of them have flipped; what does that even mean

well, yes, if it happens over a prolonged period of time then it's scummy but stuff like that is hard to say at the end of D1 when more than half the players in the game have expressed suspicion on you at one point or the other.

ok so I think I'd be okay with Randa lynch firstly he sheeps Marth on what I've already explained to not be a great Paperblade case. Originally I thought he just said 'this kind of makes sense' but I missed that he also voted for Paper later. However, some of his other posts in this time don't make any sense. Firstly he says that while he thinks Dormio's kirsche vote is bad he thinks it's town-motivated because scum have no reason to get out of RVS. This is a dumb argument but okay, let's go with it for now. Next he says that Shin's Dormio case actually kind of makes sense, wrt self-meta and skirting around stuff. So then does he still find Dormio to be town? Doesn't seem so, particularly as he later says that he just doesn't like Dormio's Shin's case. However, in his big listpost, he quotes one of kirsche's posts, where kirsche sheeps Dormio's case on Shin and says that the post is overall good. Why? Then later he quotes another kirsche post where kirsche gives more about Shin and says this accurately summarizes his misgivings about Shin... but Randa has never said he disliked Shin before this??? And actually he said Shin's Dormio case made sense, and later said to SB that he just doesn't like the use of self-meta. Then he later also says he agrees with Refa's Shin case. Now at the end of this his vote is still on Paperblade despite saying somewhere in the listpost that he actually felt it seemed more like Town!Paperblade? Most of the content in the listpost is just like 'I agree with this' or 'I don't agree with this' and asking a lot of questions that don't really seem relevant to alignment. The only thing I can really remember that's his own is not liking a post by Eclipse. Otherwise it just seems like taking both sides of Shin vs Dormio by agreeing with everything anyone says about why one of them is scummy (beyond the very initial Dormio votes for his kirsche vote).

@Marth- who did you target? It doesn't say anything about your role and is more efficient than hinting at things >_> And an actual roleclaim would be even better I was going to post this one-liner like 3 hours ago and then forgot because DRAMA at home ugh fwiw I think the 'Shin is voting people who voted him' argument is bad. This is a valid argument if it happens over multiple phases but townies who get wagoned early on vote people on their wagon pretty often: see Manix in Volcanic Anonymafia for why lynching based on this is not smart. And for that matter, Dormio has more or less done the same thing by attacking Shin for most of the game, so. I don't know if anyone other than Mitsuki is actually using this argument but if they are it's bad. Gonna reread Randa I guess. I could also go for a Junko turbowagon because YOLO

I'm like dead tired right now so I'll post more than this in the morning sorry @Boron- Dormio seems to have fallen off the map really fast so I'm still at kind of a mild suspicion there? I didn't really like his reasoning for sticking to Shin; he was just like 'why Junko over other lurkers' even though Shin explained this. And listposts are in general lame and even worse in huge games like this because you spend more time saying 'this dude needs to post' or 'dunno about this guy yet' than you do talking about actual reads. Marth was like 'I'll respond to BBM in another post' and then never really did so idk but he was around like 20 minutes ago so hopefully he gets on that. I don't really get why he unvoted Paper, afaicr Paper didn't have real content between either (which Marth said too I think). His Mancer vote doesn't make sense to me because he doesn't have a good handle on Mancer's meta. He said himself that he was townreading Mancer in the last game when he was scum. And the 'town meta' he lists about Mancer that Mancer supposedly isn't following actually looks more like his scum meta to me, where Mancer jumps on every little thing in the thread and has a general sleazy tone. I know that Marth has more to it than the meta but I just don't get why Marth would try to meta him in the first place. I'll look at the rest of it more closely tomorrow.

the Marth bit looks a little confusing, what I mean to say is: if dumb play isn't scum play, why is dumb reasoning scum reasoning? It may be a little semantic but like he keeps talking about Dormio overreacting not being scum, so then why is it scummy for other people to overreact?

ah, the days when I too had nothing to do but post in mafia games Marth, the point I was trying to make was that it seemed to me that you were picking on the Dormio wagon more because it was easy content than because you didn't like the votes there. Your reasons for the Paperblade vote are because... he disagrees with you? That's literally what it looks like to me- you believe that it was a dumb play rather than a scum play and therefore anyone who can't determine the former from the latter and is also a good player is automatically scum? Your meta on Paper about him being waffly doesn't make sense either. Let's say that yes, his Randa vote was wishy-washy. Well it's still not waffly because he definitely committed to a vote there didn't he? Where has his play been indecisive? As for 'what's the scum benefit in overreacting'... trying to paint someone as scummy for bad reasons isn't a scum move to you? And now this is what I think is worst about Marth. He goes 'Dormio's actions were dumb so he's not scum' but then says, and I quote: 'And yes I DO think there is/was scum on the dormio wagon because it was fast and based off of dumb reasoning where people like to instantly think of dumb play as scum play'. But he literally just said that dumb play isn't scummy play. And this is it seems more as if he's just trying to pick on the Dormio wagon for the sake of it. @kirsche- wasn't townreading Paper after his first post; began townreading him after the second one quick skim of Shin's latest posts; they read better. Still not entirely sure what point he's trying to make about me but shrug. His Via vote makes more sense to me than it did before and I think he raises some good points about Junko. I'm going to say straight-up that my play this game is almost certainly going to be tunnelly if this activity keeps up. I don't have time to read more than a few people's posts in-depth if I still want to keep semi-remotely up to date with the rest of the game. My reads elsewhere are going to be like gut-reads.

@Quote- What I meant was that I would vote Shin at deadline but don't see much to add to the case right now. I feel like Shin's Via case is reactionary and forced; he doesn't actually list anything that's alignment-relevant. I don't understand why Via needs to have as much conviction in their secondary reads either. @Boron- basis of my Dormio read was the kirsche case, not the meta. So I don't think that's correct. sorry guys kind of busy

moderate suspicion that's lessening is probably a better way to put it okay shower for real

The kirsche vote still bugs me because there isn't actually scum intent in what kirsche did; Dormio was making a way bigger deal out of it then it needed to be. Yeah scum can be vague but there was no reason for scum to be vague in that context. People don't ED1 claim Miller unless it's been given to them as a fake- it's a role that's used too often. The Shin vote is okay so he's getting better I guess, but it bothers me that people are giving him a free pass for something that is not townie in ANY case, because a few extra hours of non-RVS on Day 1 don't really make that much of a difference. And it's even worse in Dormio's case because that's just how he plays all the time. It would be like people giving cred to Elie for doing dumb stuff to get us out of RVS, for example (not really an up-to-date example but whatever). Reread Shin; I agree with the case but have nothing of note to add there so I don't particularly see a point in voting there right now. I'd rather try to get Marth to post more. But he's probably sleeping right now, sigh. bbl shower

Eclipse just have the anon account open on another browser or on another user if you're using chrome. Also, can your accounts vote the same person? And does the second account affect the total number of players in the game? I forgot to say this earlier but everybody going 'man Paper is lurking he's playing to scum meta' is being lame; you can't decide someone is lurking like 12 hours into D1. Criticizing him for a weak Dormio vote is valid but the meta point is stretching it. I think Via (this is Quote, @Dormio) is the worst offender here because their entire suspicion of Paperblade is based on this and doesn't even mention his vote being weak. And then they talk about how they always let Paperblade slide for lurking but then he's actually scum... so then why aren't you voting Paperblade?? That being said I like some of the other stuff they said, so MEH I also don't really like Marth's Paperblade vote because he's just like 'Paperblade wouldn't make a vote like this' but doesn't really say why, at all? Honestly my gut feeling is that he just wanted to pick at people on the Dormio wagon. Picking at people for wagoning just out of RVS is almost as easy as wagoning just out of RVS. also marth the staring thing was literally qualified by 'not flavour', so... Also seriously guys I'll admit I forgot that Dormio actually makes RVS cases as town too (I haven't played with town!Dormio for a while okay) but as he himself said, he does it as scum too. This is how he plays, so really, don't give him towncred for being the first one to start stuff. I can get the Mancer case but he's not giving off scumvibes to me; not enough paranoia and mudslinging. Will read Shin again in a little bit. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Marth

Dormio once wrote like an entire essay for an RVS case, as scum. It's probably true that the meta isn't necessarily correct because I haven't played with Dormio for a while, but it's definitely wrong that scum!Dormio wouldn't make big RVS cases that attract attention (something someone else said). Dormio what do you think of kirsche? Like you voted Shin and that's cool but you didn't say anything about your current opinion on kirsche. Is he still scummy for the way in which he claimed Miller? And you responded to my meta point but you didn't actually respond to anyone's statements about why your kirsche case was bad- you answered everything that was directed towards you, but nothing actually about the case.

##Vote: Dormio entire line of questioning sucks because when people make vague claim statements like that, someone inevitably steps in and asks them to clarify (which Mancer did, only a few posts later), so no scum is ever going to go "LET'S MAKE A MASTER PLAN WHERE I SAY VAGUE STUFF AND HOPE NOBODY ASKS ME TO CLARIFY FOR AN ENTIRE DAY PHASE" on the other hand; it's much more plausible that what you see as vague, kirsche didn't, which means this is a null action. Also #oldmeta the last time you tried to force RVS cases you were scum.

go ALIGNMENT

shinori should safeguard manix; my action failing is not as bad as manix's action failing

I don't really see a point in lynching Refa. Even if we don't go along with that plan and lynch SB, there's still no point in lynching someone who isn't mafia.

inb4 refa is scum and this is ##bigplays

well whatever

jail refa if he's still in the game I guess? and lynch Gorf if game isn't over tomorrow

Elie is actually a guy J is probably scum; his posts are too concerned with survival lynch SB, Shinori safeguards Gorf, Gorf shoots J?

there are three clears; there are no way you're getting shot Gorf SB would you actually be okay with getting lynched so that Refa can win???

so is the part of your role that you claimed earlier also legit? That you cancel someone's vote if they're an active role?

as for giving scum vote control; they already have 4/15 on D1; that's pretty good

Survivor would have claimed D2 after 2/4 scum died; Prophet and most other harmless ITPs would have as well. Arsonist is probably the main one we need to worry about but eh can't do anything about that. SK!Larsa is possible but then his kill would still had to have been blocked N1, or he could have targeted Prims I guess. Agreeing with Manix here. Optimal is not just lynching people with less useful roles first; it's also lynching people more likely to be scum first. also Vhaltz was a visible Mayor in Healer I'm pretty sure?