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Makaze

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Posts posted by Makaze

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    Just now, Fable said:

     

    I don't think you know what an insult is. 

    "I'm always right and i'm not trying to discern your alignment" Is insulting 

    "Stop shruglynching and start interacting" Is a wake up call

    My immediate PoE is You/Evan/Bart/Athena

    Yeah no. You said people need to "get good". That's a direct demand to improve skill, with a tacked on "you're not good right now".

    One of them is about your confidence in yourself (mine). One of them is about your level of confidence in others' skill (yours).

    If you lack confidence in yourself, or even if you do, that still doesn't make it right to take it out by blaming everyone else for your reads being wrong.

    Others shouldn't have to come to you to interact with you. If you want to find the Mafia, you need to interact with them. You ask them questions. You poke them out of lurking. You do shit other than sit there and whine that people are leaving you alone.

    You play the game, like everyone else is doing. Even Evan has contributed more than you now.

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Fable said:

    How well I do this phase is entirely dependent on if you guys get good. 

    Stop burying your heads in the sand just so you can shruglynch lhf. 

    We need to be able to analyze things and to have things to analyze we need content and to have content we need to start talking to each other instead of just posting thread summaries and peaceing out for half the day. 

    Don't insult fellow players whatever your alignment. How well you do this phase depends on your ability to read into action as well as inaction. Only you can determine how good your reads are.

    What are they, after this flip?

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Fable said:

    LMAO

    For the benefit of people who have more to say than LMAO:

    Evan hardcased Rapier towards the EoD and I was beginning to doubt my town read because of it. How he processes being wrong in light of mod confirmed alignment is much better than seeing him do lightning catchup pot shots in the final minutes of the phase.

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

    Then why did you say Fable (I think) cased me. Or am I misreading.

    And saying somebody is guilty until proven innocwnt is a mentality I like to use as mafia so I would get that out of your head if you are town

     

    Fable listed you as his second favourite lynch. Didn't quote posts or anything

     

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    49 minutes ago, Rapier said:

    bbcodes ruined my life

    His quote ends and my text begins at this:

    Looking for scum on your wagon makes sense if you previously thought one of the players in your wagon was scummy. However, Athena instantly assumes that a 3 or 4 player wagon on him necessarily has a wolf, when in a game with 10 people it is not unlikely that a 3 player wagon is fully town. Note that he insisted with this from early-mid game to 17 minutes ago, with 3 hours until D1's end. It feels like a very forced way to witch hunt players in your wagon out of a sense of self-preservation and/or paranoia. In another post, he comments that he thinks there is scum on his wagon, but then he reads the players voting him as mostly non-scummy and says the least non-scummy one is Fenrir, so he votes him. Which is scum logic, in my opinion.

    I'm content with an Athena lynch.

    ##Vote: @athena_57

    (I have been voting him all this time, but Iris asked me to re-vote in the new format)

    Why does this behavior look bad for Athena and not for Fable (FMPOV Fable is doing the same thing but with more self-pres).

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

    The early wagon on me was Rapier/Fenrir/Junk.

    Do you think it's reasonable to look for scum there?

    Do you think that townreads on Rapier/Junk combined with Fenrir basing their case on a (in my eyes flawed) pocket theory and bad questions which he shows by quoting an RVS joke of mine as example makes him the most likely scum of the bunch?

    I think it's reasonable for you to look for scum there, I just happen to think it's all towns on that wagon. lol

    I don't believe Fenrir is independently scummy, including for reading too much into your joke, so your conclusion is flawed since you are assuming there is a scum when there might not be.

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

    I think Evan is a pretty poor lynch as well actually

    This I would agree because if Evan is town he will be a good asset later on, and his lynch is pretty much a modkill at this point (no content). He's just high on my PoE because I don't have any reasons not to suspect him (hence PoE instead of casing).

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

    Okay, finished the ISO on town!satsuma from IDNSFMM5. 

    They started out similarly and were quite stubborn for a long time on not having solid reads or voting. Angered/annoyed tone in response to people questioning this is similar.

    There are a few differences

    - They entered a 1v1 with someone who accused them (hey, it's scum!me). This in contrast with here where he's more nonchalant about the wagon on him, though I should mention he never backed that up with a vote either and kept it at a slight scumread. I did see more interaction there however.

    - Late day 1 he actually had reads and shit, though this was after his flaked hydra-partner was replaced (so ignore this point)

    - There was no real shading, as opposed to the stuff he's done this game

     

    Bad lynch. Behaviour is pretty NAI and lynch grants no info besides confirming/denying your gut feeling. There's nothing in particular I want to ask them, I'd mostly be interested to see whether/how he picks up steam in later days.

    Do you think it makes sense FMPOV (knowing I'm town) to look at my early day wagon for scum and conclude Fenrir is the most likely to flip scum?

    I don't understand your last question. Can you quote what you're talking about?

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

    Your bias on the correctness of the vote aside, would you agree it's an easy vote for scum? Asking since for me it almost singlehandedly moves him from leaning town to consolidation territory.

     

    My response to Satsuma's post can be summed up as AAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH.

    I was okay with the first part, but the "Eh, there probably is scum intent somewhere" pings me again. I'm currently ISO-ing their town game to cross-reference (yeah, yeah, single game meta bad)

    I think it's a fundamentally easy vote for scum even if they are partners, but the absence of other pings and the way he presented it in that post just makes me think it's a lazy switch because he hasn't done his reading after moving off of Xdranoj, but it doesn't read as agenda'd to me. It's lazy at worst (which is not alignment indicative).

    Finally ISO's Fenrir. I feel like he is town as well, just from the pacing and complexity of his thoughts, which puts my PoE at:

    Fable
    Satsuma
    EvanManManMan
    athena
    Bartozio
    Mack

    From most to least scummy.

    What do you think of Fable? Is there anything you want to ask them?

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    I just ISO'd Mackc2 to get some context and with the stuff Zeonth pointed out and the way he has responded to me, I don't feel like he is doing it intentionally. Posts like this don't read as scum motivated to me (especially given the lack of prodding between the posts to cause the change):

    14 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

    Call it a gut feeling but something is tonally off about Bartozio's responses, I can't quite figure out what it is though. I need a bit of time to re-evaluate my reads and see if they are still valid 

     

    13 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

    I feel like Xan vs Bart is town vs town, I feel if one of them where mafia they would have tried to back down by now especially since their interactions haven't drawn any extra votes their way or started any wagons. 

    I'm officially dropping my suspicion until further notice.

    Also ISO'd Satsuma. Some stuff pings me:

    On 6/18/2018 at 9:35 PM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

    Care to explain why you're tunneling Evan so hard that Mack can get a townread just by asking one question?

    He never followed up on this or even got a read off of how I responded (I replied with one word "No").

    On 6/18/2018 at 11:40 PM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

    Not quite on board with a Fable lynch. I don't see the point when he's only interacted with Makaze and no one else. I'd rather lynch someone else like Xnad for D1, since that'll give us an idea about Athena, Bart and Fenrir.

    "Not quite on board with" pings me as hedging and qualitatively different from "I'm going to need sold on" and things like that. He's also not trying to interact with Fable himself, which makes this look worse.

    On 6/19/2018 at 3:11 AM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

    Now that I think about it, this is the exact same development from SF Mafia Mafia 5... Athena votes for someone mildly inactive on Day 1, and stops the pressure in one back and forth. Then Bart comes in to weigh in on that same person, and Athena sheeps Bart. Then Athena gets called out for both backing off quickly and sheeping Bart. And Athena was scum that game.

    I don't really like using meta, and there's probably going to be much more compelling reasons for a D1 lynch later, but I'd be down to test this pattern lol.

    I don't like this sideways shading because what he is doing is not actually testing his theory or engaging with athena, and I really don't see the town motivation in talking around someone instead of at them when you aren't sure about them.

    Athena's case looks especially good with this. Leaning Satsuma/Fable buddies based on the weird way they dismissed a Fable lynch, so this lynch is fine with me, and gives more information than Fable (might also help convince you guys if he flips scum and provide some evidence to go with my gut read).

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Rapier said:

    I do. You mentioned earlier that you dropped your Mack pursuit because he didn't answer your questions correctly, and that you felt like giving him time and analyze his plays before going back to him. What do you think of Mack now, all things considered? If you said anything of the sort earlier and I missed it, my bad.

    Also, I still don't think it feels natural to just drop Mack's case. He didn't answer your questions in the way you wanted him to, but you didn't address anything from his reaction and vote switch either. Do you have any opinions on his switch to Fenrir at that time?

     

    What faulty reasoning are you talking about? You didn't expand enough on this for me to properly reply and justify my past stance.

     

    I agree with this read (I had mentioned earlier how odd it was for Mack to suddenly decide to switch to Fenrir when pressured about his read by Makaze, but Zeonth took it much further). Not to mention an Evan vote is pretty much an easy vote.

     

    Okay. I found it odd because you didn't show any previous inclination to vote him (you had a townread on him, after all), but then after Bart's interaction and vote you flipped to a "slight scumread". (according to you)

     

     

    Reads don't become any better than mediocre and quickly subject to change if we don't start somewhere from D1 and work on it. This behavior doesn't really promote any improvement on reads or discussion. I can understand having trouble with reads on D1, but this "Yup, I don't really want to scumhunt on D1" attitude is detrimental regardless. I actually agree with Athena on this.

     

    I think focusing less on Makaze would be a good start, if you feel your interactions with him are unproductive. There are plenty of people who you can talk to, and this site's meta actually encourages this!

    I've yet to take a look on Bart's case on Xnad, but for now I don't think it'd make sense for scum to push for an unprobable lynch when there are other easy wagons lying around which can be easily justified.

    I wasn't really casing Mackc so much as prodding him, but I think I explained my thoughts fairly well. There is one thing I will say:

    I think Mackc's behavior is intentionally cautious, but I haven't gotten a feeling that he is lying or being ingenuine either. He's just being very careful about what he's doing. I think this is more likely to be scummy, but any case I made would be easy and not gut based, so I prefer not to get "tells" from behavior that I objectively can't read and subjectively don't have feelings about. I'd prefer to see him come out and risk something by making a reads list or something. Not hold himself in check.

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Fable said:

    Like I just really need to vent this. I don't play this game to watch other people post thread summaries, I play it to solve a puzzle that's investigative in nature which requires actually talking to people and if the meta on this site is just exist in a bubble and post thoughts with no interaction I don't find that fun nor interesting. and I'm not going to actually do anything that way. because it simply snuffs out my own playstyle because I thrive on two things, interaction and having time to analyze votals on later days . So that being said maybe it is just better to get me out of the game now if people are just going to exist in bubbles and give me shit because I'm not writing a fucking thesis on only 100 posts. 

    Vote: @Fable

    yeah um dude

    you don't need to ragequit to find the mafia

    and you definitely shouldn't consider makaze's way of mafia the site meta lmao i barely even play

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    Going to update with text fixes. Sorry guys, didn't mean to spam the thread...

    Spoiler

    My PoE:

    Town

    @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) // General town pings and lack of agenda made me feel pretty good about them. my weakest read in this category though
    @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) // Pretty strong argumentation and way of presenting that shows constantly evolving opinions as they read each post. doesn't state conclusions, states progressions
    @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) // Not much to say, town pings all around
    @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette) // Amazing intro post. Most notably town pings are for the way he addressed the things he agreed and disagreed with, clearly actually having his own opinions outside of his agenda and strongly reads town to me.

    Town Lean

    @Junk (Junko) // I haven't gotten the feeling of ingenuine motives or randomnes I usually get from Junko which suggests they are more relaxed than when I have seen them (usually as Mafia) and that reads good to me.

    Mixed Pings (Townsided)

    @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) // Some posts strike me as town and others have blatant misreps. Part of me thinks they are just odd or trying things out, and I liked their Satsuma case. While some content has an agenda, some does not, so it is hard for me to pin down his motives. Town with agenda is possible.

    Mixed Pings (Scumsided)

    @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) // Seems to ask a lot of useless questions and avoids taking strong stances. In general doesn't touch real content with a ten foot pole. If this continues, going to call it more than caution, but I don't like this when I have more decisive pings.
    @Bartozio (Mentor: @SB.) // Several of their posts and questions rang hollow to me and I haven't seen anything that jumps out to me as town. I'll comment on specifics tomorrow (this is where I would consolidate despite Evan being stronger early because Evan isn't even around.) Bart made a decent post back to Xdranoj a minute ago and I am entertaining a town/town world. Moving him up to Mixed Pings for this post.

    Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework)

    @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra) // I liked athena's case on them. I haven't had any especially good pings about them, so I'll have to make a read of my own later.

    Scum Lean

    @EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) // His entrance was bad, but then his posts later weren't terrible, but he dropped off the earth. sticking with first impressions until further impressions exist

    Scum

    @Fable 

    Null (No homework)

    @Fenrir Aesir (Mentor: @Fenraiser)

     

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

    Makaze, please don't use black text, It kills the night forest users. 
    @Bartozio What is your opinion on the other points of discussion? What do you think of the argument that Satsuma is scum because they are not forming strong opinions? What was your opinion on the cases that existed against Fenrir? Who are Xand's scum buddies if he is scum? What in particular makes Fable worse than Xan?

     

    my bad, i had to copy paste from the white theme because my post got garbled and auto posted and forgot to clear formatting on the repost

    Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    Zeonth town.

    @Zeonth @ The Mackc2 comment: Now that you put it like that, you're right, he did ask him why he town read athena. I read like this "Why do you only have one town read?" That's the question I thought he was asking. Now that you've pointed out there is another interpretation, it does change how I read it a bit. He did ask what he meant to ask (kind of).

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