Makaze
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Posts posted by Makaze
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33 minutes ago, athena_57 said:
I remember you calling Zeo's wallposts fantastic, do you still stand by that opinion?
Yes. Was the into one actually.
I'd rather he post in real time now.
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He might be using one of my scripts that adds post numbers.
Check the Mafia Headquarters thread, it has some nice stuff.
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7 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:
Going to just clear up a few things, D1 my post that athena responded too was just posted for the sake of posting,I didn't have a plan for it and I got bored waiting for a response and went to play a game. I changed my vote to Fenrir Aesir after Makaze's prodding because I felt I needed to get a non rvs vote in but I was too lazy to actually do any scumhunting myself so I just sheeped Rad cause I thought it was a good point. With Bart I made the first post before I finished reading through their interactions, my opinion on bart has changed again. Just don't expect me to be consistent, if I flip flop a lot its because I am confused. I think that answers most of the questions I have been asked? I have also ISO'd about half the players now and will post some of the results now.
This post is probably town.
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I'm not trying to say otherwise! I'm saying ping Zeonth with questions he can answer when he gets here. I am not making a case, I am prodding you to do a specific thing.
This is very irritating because now no matter what I say or why if he reacts like its ridiculous, then it becomes ridiculous. If I ask a question, "Oh you're saying X about me now? LOL" That's not an answer, and I can't work around it, it's just shutting down the whole thing and ensuring this never moves on.
Take up the job of prodding him if you want, but please don't just let him skate by because he's doing this on purpose. I'm reaching out with content requests, that I believe, if he delivered, could help me change my read on him. And he's acting like everything I say is an attack, so it is, and my prods just end up looking like shade attempts. Why? Because you never get to see him deliver, I never get to digest the content, and nothing comes of it.
It's deliberately distracting from the point, and makes me want to leave the thread, like I tried to do just now. Let's see if I can again.
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I'm out until some other people post their intros and present reads (especially Fenrir and Bart).
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18 minutes ago, athena_57 said:
This feels overly snippy
Meh. I'm trying to avoid this, but they are not rhetorical questions. The only way I am going to be able to read Fable town is if he actually does what he is telling everyone else to do.
I'm getting the feeling people are just going to let him skate by complaining about no interaction without actually pressuring him to do any himself.
While it pings me that he is asking people to talk to him about Zeo without interacting with him (something that goes against everything he has been saying), my goal is to get him to actually do that interaction.
TL;DR I'm not making a political statement for the audience or trying to pick on him. I'm saying do it, actually talk to the person you're asking to sheep a read on. If you can't read their posts, generate some you can read, and try to get into their head.
Do you think I am wrong for wanting that, or are you just saying I should be more kind about it?
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2 minutes ago, Fable said:
Somebody speak words to me about Zeo.
NGL my eyes glazed past most of his walls and I don't get much out of posts like that. I think he and Evan are important to figure out because then we'll have an idea of how bad the pile up on satsuma was.
Are you asking for someone else to give you a read to sheep?
Why not interact with Zeo yourself, by asking him something?
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3 minutes ago, Fable said:
Mak's vote was lazy af and I just see it as "let me get this mislynch since I can't get Fable's so I'll get the one person kinda defending him." Maybe I'm tunneling but idec at this point. I don't know how satsuma's lynch got so much more information when we were kinda in the same boat so it doesn't come across as authentic reasoning to me.
My Satsuma was read was mostly sheeping athena's case and I gave examples of posts from Satsuma that pinged me, so you're going to have to actually read what I said if you don't want to be lazy yourself. I didn't vote until I did my homework, and starting to think about it because of sheeping does not mean the same thing as just throwing a vote on the wagon. When I voted I thought I was barely putting it over the lynch on me, making it self-pres as well.
What has me wondering is whether you are intentionally misrepping or just lazily misrepping, and either way I don't see the value if I am your highest scum read. You should be casing me hardcore and have examples if it's not gut.
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You will have to specify which account is RAD there. I don't see any posts by him on either site.
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4 minutes ago, Fenrir Aesir said:
On determining if Athena's first post is more likely to be trying to look proactive or trying to generate responses: they're asking questions pretty consistently throughout their ISO. The main issue I have is with their initial questions, which are barely related to the game and they were very quick to give Xnad a townlean based on his response (and then was also quick to shift to voting Xnad). I still think Athena's initial posts are scummy in a vacuum but the questions at least are in line with what seems to be their general playstyle (based on how in the rest of the ISO they seems to be asking questions about everything they can).
I like EvanManManMan's first post less while rereading just since when I think of why he'd comment on having no reads on page 2 but not do anything towards getting them I struggle to think of why he'd do so as town; I'm reading the rest of his iso now though. Also need to reread Mackc2 and Bartozio as I don't have very strong leanings on them either way and can't remember much of what they posted off the top of my head and look at the Rapier nightkill-from what I recall he was pretty widely townread but not to the extent that some others were.
One thing I really didn't like from EoD:
Rad unvotes SoySoy to "avoid hammer" and doesn't revote when informed there are only three minutes remaining. I can see him doing this as either alignment, but in his final post of the day he's suddenly like "if SoySoy flips town look for scum on that wagon" and it makes it feel a lot like he doesn't want to be caught on it at EoD. Fable has a similar comment on disliking the SoySoy wagon, but Fable was pretty consistent/vocal in his dislike of that wagon beforehand. In Rad's initial vote on SoySoy he asks, "What do you think about things; since your hanging out?" and then he doesn't speak to of reference SoySoy again until those last 3 posts. I think if Rad were town he'd've acknowledged/interacted with SoySoy to some extent after the initial vote. @Makaze, @Fable, and @athena_57, why were you townreading Rad day 1? I'd been assuming Makaze's at least to be a gut/tone read, but upon comparing his tone here to a couple of other games with him I found he's generally more casual/assertive than what I've seen here so far:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-mafia-invitational-redux-game-thread-game-over.3629685/page-90
http://ps-mafia.proboards.com/thread/537/countdown-gg-mafia
http://ps-mafia.proboards.com/thread/556/modified-execution-abandoned
Whereas in this thread he's been more controlled and reserved.
In the Smogon game in particular he's much better with interacting with his scumreads than he was here with SoySoy. I don't have a scumgame of his to compare this to though, so to the three I mentioned above and @RADicate do you think there's another potential explanation for this difference?Before I respond, I'd like to hear you present some deeper opinions on the current thread PoE of:
Fable
Evan
Bartozio
MackIn fact, a whole reads list, with summaries please.
I want an idea of where you stand before I question where I stand based on meta.
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Scratch that, Bart had one at EOD before his Satsuma vote.
Update it please, sorry for being rude.
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@Bartozio Should post one as well. There's no excuse for not having one after a lynch.
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Still not seeing any reason to doubt my Fenrir read other than his actions not really having any impact. Which, I would like to see @Fenrir post a reads list with lynch priority.
Multiple things are bothering me about Bart on reread, but I'll save that for after he posts.
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Now that I read it again, he did foreshadow that he would re-evaluate.
gdi
I can see that world now, this could be a pocket attempt, and it's possible Bart is not Mafia. (As in his flip isn't clearing.)
My PoE is a lot more fluid with that. I'll be ISOing Fenrir and Bart while I wait for Evan to show up.
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Mack's first post:
On 6/17/2018 at 9:33 PM, Mackc2 said:Guys, guys I have a flawless plan, it's guaranteed to work.
##vote: Bartozio
The callout:
On 6/19/2018 at 11:37 PM, Mackc2 said:Call it a gut feeling but something is tonally off about Bartozio's responses, I can't quite figure out what it is though. I need a bit of time to re-evaluate my reads and see if they are still valid
His next post after the callout:
On 6/20/2018 at 12:06 AM, Mackc2 said:I feel like Xan vs Bart is town vs town, I feel if one of them where mafia they would have tried to back down by now especially since their interactions haven't drawn any extra votes their way or started any wagons.
His response to my question about the change:
On 6/20/2018 at 1:33 AM, Mackc2 said:I was re-evaluating my thoughts on Fenrir, the conclusion is that his recent posts have more of a town lean. I have my suspicions about Athena but at this point its nothing more than a gut instinct, I haven't started to gather evidence to support it yet.
I believe Bart is acting more confident than usual, I was not sure if that is scum or town would be more confident but I don't think as scum he would be tunnelling the one issue with Xan. -
4 minutes ago, Fable said:
"Fable do you plan on playing WW today?"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'll be more explicit.
Who are you going to case in this phase?
Who are you going to ISO? Are you going to post your thoughts about the ISO, with examples?
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Just now, athena_57 said:
Wait Makaze, I'm confused. Are these 2 distinct scumteams, the first team being scum!fable team, the other being the town!fable team or is the first three the most likely, with the others being substitutes if fable flips town? I'm guessing the latter, but please confirm/deny.
Could you also elaborate on the thought on mack-swap, why is specifically this world the place this is possible? This may be on me, but I'm not following the thought.
They are not distinct. The first is the most likely scum team if Fable is Mafia. If Fable is not Mafia, then the PoE is between those people, but the order is a lot harder to pin down.
Mack and Bart being a team is the only world where I see Mack as scum, so it's pretty much the second one, yeah.
My logic on the Mack swap is that Mack says Bart is tonally off in one post. No one questions him about this, and in his next post he says Nadroj and Bart is town vs town, out of nowhere. When I asked about it, he said he changed his mind after reading the exchange. This is not a smart move for Mafia in itself, and Mack has been very careful about throwing reads, so I do not see how he profits from this if Bart is town and Mack is mafia. So either Mack is town and Bart is Mafia, Mack is mafia and Bart is Mafia (giving him a reason to switch so casually), or Mack is town and Bart is town, and those are the options.
Do you interpret it differently, or what do you see happening if he is Mafia and Bart is town?
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@Fable Do you have any plans to case anyone, even as a kind of interaction?
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Just now, Fable said:
He did the same thing with Evan lmao.
According to Mak all you have to do to be a villager in this game is shit on me lmao.
Also analyzing the satsuma wagon and will have that up in a bit.
Actually, I don't think Evan is as clear of being in a team with you as I did at EoD. He was firing all over the place and it had no chance to changing the lynch, so I'm not going to give him town cred for it. Anyone can BS in the last hour no matter what they say.
And hard bussing is also a thing if he comes out and cases you again, it's just a matter of whether I believe he is genuine.
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1 minute ago, athena_57 said:
So I question Fable and I'm town. Gas. Why didn't I know this earlier?
Actually the way you've been disagreeing with him is more indicative lol
Scum distancing usually doesn't read to me as this confrontational, it reads like play acting, with no compromise on either side, just "I see, I see" and then it gets dropped.
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My PoE is largely in agreement with Fable's, with one major exception (besides him).
Fable
Bartozio
Mack
Junk
Evan
Fenrir
First three is the most likely team if Fable is Mafia, the others become more likely if Fable is town (and I would be back at square one within PoE instead of any sure locks).This team is also the only world where scum!Mack does the unprompted switch between Bart as scummy and Bart as town between posts. So I think if Bart flips town, Mack is cleared from unnecessary flipflop townclearing that goes against his cautious playstyle.
Athena would be added if Fable flips town, but is being left out because I do not believe their team is possible with the way athena has been not just questioning but disagreeing with him.
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20 minutes ago, Fable said:
I don't think you know what an insult is.
"I'm always right and i'm not trying to discern your alignment" Is insulting
"Stop shruglynching and start interacting" Is a wake up call
My immediate PoE is You/Evan/Bart/Athena
10 minutes ago, Makaze said:Who would you like to lynch today, if not me?
Do you plans to case anyone?
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4 minutes ago, Fable said:
How do you know my reads are wrong? :thinking:
Also you really need to get over yourself, I'm not the one that shruglynched satsuma acting like I'm the best ever and can do no wrong.
The assumption stems from "how well I do today". You were setting yourself up for doing badly, and gave yourself an out to blame everyone else. Assuming you do badly, it will be your fault.
Not going to entertain this further, just going to stick to game related content. Stop insulting people and play the game.
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1 minute ago, Fable said:
Do you think mack is that different from last game?
Like he's low content yeah but he got in trouble for that last time too iirc.
I just don't want any more lhf tunnels if there isn't a good reason for them.
Who would you like to lynch today, if not me?
Do you plans to case anyone?
Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER
in Mafia
Posted
Neither of those. It was things like this:
"Page 6:
*Makaze asks Mack this when Mack asked in a clear enough manner on page 5 “Why is Athena your only town read? Also is there a reason you post multiple single sentence posts in a row instead of putting it all in one post?” Are you even reading his posts/going back to check what he says before throwing out a scumread, or is this just another “soul read” based on one random post he makes that you happened to notice?"
It read as natural and grudging agreement. The first part pointed out my error in how I read what Mack said. But, now that I'm reading his wall again, it's actually pretty lazy. He says what people did. He doesn't actually say what he's thinking about peoples' alignments.
First impression was he was actually thinking, but this reads more like note taking of what people did.
@Zeonth
Who would you lynch and why?