General Spoon

It isn't if you use the most recent entries into the Star Fox series as your expectations for it.

Apparently I haven't been clear enough in stating that I think we should use time as a measure of efficiency. I think that time should be the measure of efficiency. Running from encounters saves time. Therefore I think that running from encounters is efficient. Your analogy to 17x HHM fails because a different criteria (turns) is being used to measure efficiency. Time is irrelevant in that case.

We're obviously through here. Neither of us is willing to give any ground. But I suppose if you really want us to continue this farce I can. Even if we aren't measuring efficiency in time we still don't need to waste our own time on random encounters. I don't feel the overwhelming urge to add hours of random encounter fights to the time I spend playing.

If you think that wasting your time completing unnecessary sidequests before you finish the game you could have finished quite some time ago is efficient, then I'm just going to stop arguing with you right now. I noticed earlier you said "no Moogle Charm." Care to elaborate how this possibly would be efficient? Or was this your own non-serious part? as if; you're always serious

Wasn't this known quite some time ago? EDIT: That launch list is shittier than the one I recall.

What was the reasoning behind Lethe going up again?

Why are you still hung up on this? I already said I wasn't serious about measuring efficiency in gil. Going to gaidens in Fire Emblem is, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, a tradition that we all follow without question or dispute about it (unless its something stupid like HHM 19xx). Now, I don't like the way you speak of the bosses as optional. Its not just he bosses that are optional; the whole dungeon you need to slog through to get to them is optional as well. The only optional bosses I can think of that don't involve optional dungeons are Deathgaze (who I wouldn't bother wasting time with), some dragons, and the Atma/Ultima Buster in Kefka's Tower (who's only guarding a save point).

Units have terrible growths in FE2, so the promotion bonuses are quite welcome.

When I said liquid assets I meant gil that the player has, and it was actually a throwaway line to show the variety of ways efficiency could be measured (I am not seriously suggesting that we measure efficiency by the amount of gil you have when the game ends). As for minimalist, we don't have any problem when we skip chests in Fire Emblem because we don't need the contents and it will save turns to skip them.

We need to have some sort of unit to measure efficiency. It could be time, or steps, or levels, or liquid assets, or what have you. Its different than Fire Emblem efficiency in that we can't accurately measure it in turns, so we need to determine something else to measure it by, and if somebody wants to make a list to measure a different efficiency then they can make their own list (doubt it will happen).

Methinks it is like a weasel.

I finish the rocket segment, then go and get the old guy floating guy in Cosmo Canyon and pick up Bahamut ZERO there, making the cheesing of the game assured. I get some key underwater in an out of the way location that I don't believe you are given any clues about (additionally, Emerald Weapon swimming around was a turn off to exploring underwater). I go to the Forgotten Capital and learn about Holy and stuff, and then do something else. It was probably killing Diamond Weapon. Let's see, after that I know that Sephiroth's barrier was destroyed, and I did some stuff in Midgar like steamrolling the Proud Clod or something like that, so I believe that the next thing I did was "switch to the imaginary disk 3." I fly around for a bit and kill Ultima Weapon before I get bored and just decide to end the game. So I go the the crater, and down into the planet. Partway down I need to split up my party, and then I need to split it up again. And then we rejoin. No obstacles that the parties need to solve for the others to advance, no bosses for them to fight, just nothing at all but walking. Seriously, why the fuck did we need to split up again? Anyways, because we hadn't fought Jenova in some time we needed to kill it again. Then we go down farther, and when using the menu before fighting Sephiroth I notice the wording on the save item I picked up, which was that it made a save point on the ground. Oh well, not like I needed it. Bizzaro Sephiroth was tossed aside (seriously, this is the penultimate boss, and he's no threat at all). Next was Safer Sephiroth, who is definitely not a Kefka ripoff. I didn't have that one Matercite that destroys enemy Walls and stuff equipped, but it wasn't necessary. I just smashed away at him and he died. The only thing he does that could be considered a threat is Super Nova, the spell that has a casting animation of 2 minutes or something retarded like that. And a Megaelixir quickly negates that. After he died I got into a battle that I would be hard pressed to lose. Then the credits came and that was it. Final Thoughts This game has not aged well. While it may have been an impressive game back in its day, I think that had more to do with it being in 3D than anything else. Personally, I think that 3D detracted from it because even with screen exit arrows on and such, it was still hard to figure out where I could walk or how I could get there. I've already stated before that the characters look terrible, so I won't dwell on that. The story completely fails at times. For example I've already pointed out the problem with the Huge Materia. Upon hearing that Shinra plans to use Huge Materia to blow up the meteor and save the planet, the party immediately decides to go and steal it to stop Shinra from saving the planet. I mean, wtf? Later in the rocket sequence (11th hour, as I've stated before) Cloud says that the plan to use the Huge Materia to help them defeat Sephiroth (they barely do, only getting Bahamut Zero out of it). It may have made sense to tell me this before (if they did I missed it, and it was handled so poorly that it made the party look like idiots if you missed it). The characters and their backstorys/etc. This doesn't really exist if you name isn't Cloud. It kinda exists for a few of the characters (like Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and that's it). Other characters are lucky if they get "I'm from here, and 2 more lines of stuff." I mean comeon, FFVI had like twice as many characters, and only two of them didn't really get any backstory, and one of them was a yeti who we do learn somethings about, and the other is Gogo. Forced minigames everywhere. The motorcycle sequence, the chocobo races, the Huge Materia train lever pumping, the excavation, the snowboarding (best handled by placing a heavy object on the triangle button and going to the bathroom), and I've probably forgotten other ones as well. These things serve no goddamn purpose. Its like several of the members of the development team worked on Mario Party or something.

I don't believe IOS actually specified anything beyond linking to a guide and saying we'd follow something like that, though I may be mistaken. EDIT: It appears to be a guide for a 6 hour 30 minute clear. I'm cool with that.

So you mean that you'd use some sort of 100% completion sort of yardstick for the list? Because I'd use time as a yardstick. My yardstick says that its faster to run/use smokebombs, leave chests, and not recruit everybody. Also, I don't recall this list being specified as SNES or Advance. This does make a difference, because some bugs were fixed in the Advance version.

Perhaps the problem lies with Gau and not the policy, seeing the special accommodations that need to be proposed for him to not hit adjacent to Umaro.

So what exactly DO you use as a measuring stick if you don't use time, low levels, steps, or liquid assets to measure efficiency? You must first define what efficient is before you can throw terms like "stupidly inefficient" around.

It sounds like you may be mad at me, but did you look at my wording? I didn't say I would be disappointed if they showed up; it was the opposite.

You mean those guys that stand in a circle and give you a canoe? I would not be disappointed if they showed up in Dissidia 2.

This about sums up the feeling of me and a few others I have spoken to, though admittedly I would have worded the opening slightly differently.

Why the hell is it that all the boring characters from FFVII got into Dissidia 2? Would it really be that hard to put Barret or Rufus (most interesting characters in FFVII) in it?

Why do all the characters in the WoR need to be recruited when you can just bullrush Kefka's tower the moment we hit 6 guys? Its pretty damn easy to Joker Death the shit in the way of two of the party's in Kefka's tower, while the other can just vanish/doom their share.

I'd like to have a game put into the queue. Just give it some vague name that also shows my ownership. EDIT: Its a full game.

After going to Yuffie's hometown and doing some stuff like getting Leviathan, I head back to Nibel and Shinra Manor. Opening the safe I find a key inside, and go to the basement. Down there I find Vincent sleeping in a coffin, and he decides to join. I head out for the only town I haven't gone to. Perhaps unsurprising, Cloud turns out to be there. Unfortunately, Tifa decides to stay with him (deserters, deserters everywhere), and I have to go on some fetch quests to get Huge Mataria, because apparently its bad if Shinra uses them to destroy the meteor. Its not even said that its bad; I guess I'm just supposed to assume it. After completing the fetch quest, getting a sub, and then ramming it into Emerald Weapon and reloading a recent save, I get on the rocket and end up in space. Cid says he wants to leave the Huge Materia on the rocket to destroy the meteor, and Cloud says that we shouldn't because it has stored knowledge and we wanted to use it to defeat Sephiroth (we did?). It would appear at this point that the game is presenting me with a choice; I can either leave the Huge Materia to destroy the meteor or keep it. Considering that I've only been told why I was collecting the Huge Materia at the 11th hour, you can bet I'm going to jettison it into the meteor, even though the game is likely to rip this facade of a choice away at the last minute. EDIT: The rocket, of course, doesn't destroy it, which means I may as well reset and grab the Huge Materia. Also, I just noticed an inconstancy. Red XIII's floating grandfather says that he's like 45 or something, which is like 16 in human years. However, Red XIII later says that he plans to live to 500. 16/70=22% of a human's lifetime. 45/500=9% of a Talking Bobcat's lifetime. Clearly what Red XIII's grandfather meant to say was that Red XIII is something like 32 in human years.

After stealing the airplane/boat and recruiting Cid...I did something. I believe that what I did next was going all the way out of my way to go back to the Golden Saucer (which I learned on the world map is just a big tower, and not actually flying) to pick up a Keystone. Then I backpedal to Woodlands Area and meet Yuffie. After a few trial and error attempts she says she'll join, and we go to the naming screen. As soon as the naming screen pops up I realize that I'm going to need to go find her AGAIN. One attempt later she's recruited and we go into the temple building. After clearing the temple (and Cait Sith 1 breaking in the process) Cloud crams the temple into his pocket and promptly hands it over to the guy we were trying to keep the temple away from. It makes more sense in context. Sephiroth leaves and Cloud starts to beat Aeris right as Cait Sith 2 shows up (seriously, if this guy has replacement models just waiting in the wings that short a distance away, how can we ever lose in the first place?), and then Cloud blacks out. Later Cloud wakes and we find out that underleveled Aeris left and went to the roof of the world all on her own. Which means we need to get her. Or at least I don't know that that's where it is yet, but I figure it out after boating around for a while. We acquire the magical artifact that will allow us safe passage through the magical forest, and then find Areis at the bottom of some ruins. Sephiroth promptly kills her, which has the effect of RAISING MY AVERAGE PARTY LEVEL, which means that when my scrubs are autoleveled, it will be to a higher level. It is at this point that the game decides it wants to pretend I'm using disks to play it, even though its being played from my PSP memory stick. This has the effect of reminding me that the game needs to take time to load towns and stuff as if it was from a disk, which it is of course not. After "changing disks" we go even farther north, and buy weapons that are like twice as powerful as what I had before or something stupid like that. Grabbing a map and a snowboard, I set the system down for about 5 minutes as Cloud wipes out to the bottom of the mountain. I wander around in the blizzard for a while killing stuff and grabbing items (fuck the map, I don't know where I'm supposed to go on it, so it may as well be worthless), and then the party passes out. We wake up, talk to some guy who left his wife like 20 years ago, and then climb a mountain. Then we climb down into a crater. The crater has these annoying obstacles that are wind barriers that cross back and forth over the path, knocking you back if they collide with you and starting an encounter with some wind dragon. This wouldn't be so bad if we didn't need to go through the barriers, and that its mostly guesswork exactly where the wind barriers cross the path. Eventually we make it to the end of the crater, and you know what? I'm been missing Jenova lately. Oh yay, a Jenova bossfight! Some stuff is said, Cloud gets the temple again and gives it to Sephiroth again, and Cloud experiences mental trauma. Weapon wakes up, and everybody but Cloud leaves in a hurried manner. About 7 days later Tifa wakes up and I find out that the party is without Crono Cloud. Which means I get the opportunity to try somebody else instead of him. I just need to figure out which scrub I like the most first. Anyways, Barret opens the shades and the Moon a giant meteor is falling towards Termina the world. Oh, and we're now going to be executed because we've been captured by Dalton Rufus. This actually gets interrupted by Weapon, who is rampaging around for shits and giggles. One escape sequence later, we finally have an airship. And it looks like the party wants to get Crono Cloud back. I agree with them, because I believe that he didn't unequip his Materia when he left. Though I could be mistaken. Yes I am mistaken, he did unequip his Materia. Which means it doesn't make any sense to get him logistically, because of the way that Materia works, and that his damage output isn't any better than my other guys. I guess I don't particularly care for Cloud.

So after going across the marshes we go through a cave and end up going to this coastal town. We stowaway and cross the ocean on a cargo ship. After that we go over some rollarcoaster track to get to a slum that exists in the middle of nowhere. We then go up a zipline to a casino that I believe is flying. We recruit some idiotic looking fortune telling machine, and promptly end up in a wasteland. Barret shoots some guy behind a couch, and then shoots the guy who's his friend but has now become a homicidal maniac. After another forced minigame section (I'm seeing a pattern here), the Chocobo Race, we get a vehicle that almost immediately breaks right outside of Talking Bobcat's home. I guess some story stuff happened here too. Anyways our Crapsack Cruiser gets fixed after that, and I realize that I can't recall our group's motivation beyond "Stop Sephiroth from doing something, thereby saving the planet" or something like that. Going trough Cloud's hometown which was rebuilt by applying amnesia liberally, we then go through another mountain cave and come out somewhere on the world map called "Rocket Launch Pad Area". I've also noticed that Choco/Mog isn't cheesing random encounters anymore. Thoughts on my party members Cloud: Forced member. Barret: Party member I like the most. Tifa: No reason to take her out of the party since she's been there all game. Aeris: Benchwarmer. Red XIII: Benchwarmer. Cait Sith: Benchwarmer.