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On 11/18/2020 at 1:35 PM, Shadow Mir said:
How come? Because imho, that's not nearly as egregious as having a bare midriff when you're supposed to be a professor (and this is coming from someone who normally has no issue with female characters wearing outfits that expose their midriff. That is largely because among other media I liked back then, one TV show I watched back then had the main characters often had such outfits either as their casual outfit or when transformed into fairies, or even both).
Well, this is a video game we're talking about. Impractical outfits are pretty much the law of the land. I mean, look at Edelgard and Dimitri. Those billowy-ass cloaks would get them both dead in the first minute of battle irl. Not to mention others like Dorothea and Marianne who are fighting in elaborate floor-length gowns. I know they're mages, but that's still hella risky when one unexpected trip or snag could spell death. Byleth's outfit is far from the worst in that regard. If you just mean that she's dressed unprofesionally, take a look at Manuela. Garreg Mach clearly has no formal dress code for their faculty lol
As for Guyleth, I just think his design is ugly. The bowl cut, edgy black clothes and perpetual frown just don't look good to me. I prefer "prettier" male characters like Yuri. But each to their own fashion.
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10 hours ago, beachwalks said:
I'd say that you actually want Niles to kill the Archers. Since this is hard classic, you don't have to worry about an enfeeble shrine maiden nerfing your units. Niles would normally die with 3 steel bow archers but one of them having a shining bow targets his high resistance stat. With a strength tonic, defense tonic, and +2 forged bronze bow he can clear out all the Archers in one enemy phase. Pair him with Effie if you need a defense buff or elise's aura, as long as you aren't letting the boss get dual strikes on you you're fine. As for the reinforcements, that is the game telling you to seize, but its possible to kill them all with good positioning and attack stance abuse. Haitaka you can kill on player phase with heavy hitters like Corrin dragonstone, Silas with his personal activated, reclassed jacob, effie will work too I think but I honestly don't use her very much. Also plunk Odin or Nyx next to the boss so Heartseeker can alleviate the avoid from the throne. Do your own math to make sure you don't waste a tonic if its not needed for Niles, but he can hit the benchmarks from base.
Neither of the archers had a Shining Bow iirc. Javelin Effie in attack stance with Nyx took them both out just fine for me.
As a side note, Javelin Effie is SO useful! I've only given ch.10 a couple of tired attempts so far, but planting Effie behind the walls with a Javelin basically lets her wreck house on the ninjas and spearfighters with next to no retaliation.
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6 minutes ago, Emerson said:
Yeah, that should work fine. You can also have Niles do a bit of damage and Dance him out with Azura before enemy phase since theres room, although depending on your rng with his Strength he might not do that much.
Perfect, thanks! I'll try it first without involving Niles and Azura since I'd like to keep them safe, but I'll keep that in mind in case I need some extra damage.
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Just now, Emerson said:
Most people give Effie a Javelin, which she does use rather well given she won't double normally anyways.
Forgot Javelins even existed lol
Thanks for the tip! I didn't realize the reinforcements zone only extended as far as the dragon vein. So I can just take out the archers, keep everyone to the left as they head towards the boss and then enemy phase him to death with guard stance Effie/Arthur, yes?
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7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:
What difficulty are you playing on?
Anyway, I find the archers near the boss best dealt with before moving on, preferably with Effie (use pair up to stop any tag team attempts they do).
Hard/Classic. How do I kill the archers with Effie though? They're behind the wall so she can't reach them. Should I put Effie in attack stance with Felicia or Nyx behind, bait the archers into attacking her through the wall and hope Felicia/Nyx can get the kill on the counterattack?
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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:
As someone who despises female Byleth's design and thus will not be having a female Byleth ever, Falcon Knight is automatically off the table. That means that I'm stuck needing more faculty training to qualify for Wyvern, which I don't consider worth it.
Ah, I'm the exact same way about male Byleth. Can't stand the bowl cut lol
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I feel like I'm missing something here. I've done this mission a bunch of times now using the same basic strategy, but I can't seem to figure out how to approach the boss without losing anyone to the reinforcements or his two personal archers. Everything goes fine up until that point, I start off by splitting Niles and Odin off from the rest of the group to take the northern entrance and grab the Rescue staff. Meanwhile Corrin and co. head to the southern entrance to recruit Nyx, and Azura makes a beeline for the dragon vein. Effie goes in first, in attack stance with Arthur, and kills the pair of samurai while the others wait on safe tiles. Then Azura uses the dragon vein to weaken the spearfighters, and I put Effie (in guard stance with Arthur) into their range so she kills them on the enemy phase. I have Corrin (in guard stance with Elise to borrow her higher mov) rush over and kill the lone archer so Effie doesn't have to deal with him, while Felicia and Nyx pick off the swordie from a safe distance. At this point, only the boss and his two archers are left and everybody (except Azura who's still in the alcove where the dragon vein was) is standing just outside the zone that trips the reinforcements. Niles and Arthur are the only two who have the weapon advantage over the boss. And of the two of them, only Arthur can get close enough to attack (again by having Elise carry him). Arthur can't one round the boss, and nobody else can get close enough to finish the job before the reinforcements come. I can try and block the stairways, but I don't think I can block all four in one turn. So I either need a quick way to kill the boss or to somehow block enough stairways to buy time before the reinforcements get too close.
Any suggestions on how to finish this chapter? It feels like there's something I'm just not thinking of.
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7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:
Personally, I'm not sold on Falcon Knight Byleth (or flyer Byleth in general, for that matter, really) thanks to the need for faculty training, which is hard to reconcile when in general, my activity points are best spent on other things during part 1, and I'd also say ditching swords entirely is not smart because giving up Windsweep is a hard sell.
I didn't mean ditching swords, just the sword-based class path (Myrmidon, Merc/Thief, Swordmaster/Assassin, EO). Flyleth can still use the Sword of the Creator, and NG+ means getting her into the class isn't an issue if you got her as far as Pegasus (which a lot of people do just for Darting Blow) on your last run.
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11 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:
I mean "worth it", depends if you want to grind out the Felicia/Flora support and then do the whole relcassing as that costs some money - but a Witch Felicia with 2 Lv. of Dark Mage to pick up Heartseeker and Malefic Aura will have literally the same stats as a pure Witch Felicia but with a +2 Mag Damage and a -20 Avoid skill for other units to take advantage of too. The stat difference is all around something like -0.05 when compared.
Well, I wanted to get all their supports anyway so that's not a big deal. So if the stat difference isn't too bad then I guess it wouldn't hurt to grab Malefic and maybe Heartseeker.
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7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Wait, Swordmaster as better than Enlighted One? But E1 has more movement, spell utility, and a good mastery skill in Sacred Power. Not to mention, faster Authority growth. Both classes have Swordfaire. The only advantage I see in SM is Sword Crit +10 (and... slightly better speed and dex, I think?).
Even if you don't care for the spells and Sacred Power, it seems like Assassin would be better on the Professor than Swordmaster (maximum infantry mobility, utility skills). I'm curious what advantage you see in Swordmaster, as it stands.
Regardless, thanks for seconding my proposals!
Fetters of Dromi have her movement covered for me, and her spell list's pretty meh so I don't really use it. I agree that Sacred Power's a good skill to have, but you don't have to stay in EO to use it. I just smacked the Knowledge Gem on Byleth before chapter 12 and then used 13 to grind out mastery. Swordmaster had Sword Crit and EO didn't so I went with Swordmaster.
As for Assassin, I just didn't feel like training her in bows lol
I think on my next CF run though I'm gonna ditch the sword route entirely and go for Falcon Knight Byleth.
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5 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:
Yeah, I´ve been looking at some stats and with the exception of a bit of Mag you should just be able to give Felicia some Lvs. as Dark Flier in case you want to pick up skills without hampering her damage all too much. It´ll probably end up being a case of "convenient but not reliable", i would guess. Though it all depends on her Lv. right now. Not sure a dip into Dark Mage will be all too helpful, but a 2-4 Lv. reclass Witch > Sorceror > Witch also shouldn´t really affect her stats that much. If you just throw her into Witch she should perform just good enough.
Okay, perfect! Looks like Felicia's gonna be cleaning up the battlefield with her spells then. I can drop the Dark Mage idea if it's not really worth it. Was just a thought since Malefic seems like a good skill for any mage, but I wouldn't want to hurt her stats just for one skill.
Thanks again for your help!
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On 10/24/2020 at 11:53 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
1. Swordmaster now has 6 move, with the usual Forest penalties. I'd do the same for Warrior, Hero, and (maybe) Sniper.
2. Astra now inflicts -5 physical attack, but otherwise each hit does full damage. If I'm spending 9 durability, this should be a player-phase delete button.
3. Swordmasters are supposed to be evasive, right? Give the class Avoid+10. I'd also axe Avoid+10 from the fliers, but that's its own discussion.
Pretty much this, honestly. For 9 durability, Astra shouldn't have been so lackluster.
Also if we're talking aesthetic changes, I'd say it needs a better set of animations and a new class outfit. Maybe it could reuse Byleth's Enlightened One animations? Her attacks and poses always look so much cooler in EO than in Swordmaster, but I usually end up sticking with Swordmaster since it's the better class.
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1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:
Flora may make for a really weird, really expensive support unit - getting Rally Skill, Rally Res for the probably occasional use at best and Heartseeker + Inspiration on a Strategist to resolve potential accuracy/damage issues? Or add in Rally Move from Dark Flier and Warp for global Rallying? I don´t really see anythin else for her. I mean she has access to 3 breaker skills - Axe/Shuriken/Bow, but Axe/Bow users would probably 1HKO her and Shuriken Ninjas may be to accurate for her slow self - considering she only averages ~23SPD at 20/20 she´s also guaranteed to be doubled and her Def is low enough for that to become a problem. Oh yeah, since you said DLC there´s Witch and Dark Falcon I suppose but she remains relatively slow. Maybe Great Lord/Dread Fighter could work considering her STR/SKL growth, but she´ll never not be slow. Then again maybe Strong Riposte/Sol/Aggressor/Iron Will/Res+2 Dread Fighter for hard countering Mages, though she´ll probably be eclipsed by Kaze - she´ll have +5STR and -16SPD. Add in a SPD focused PU - maybe a captured enemy, such as Sword Masters (+5SPD/+3LCK), or a Falcon Knight for +3SPD/+1RES/+1MOV or just one player unit you don´t care about.
Alright, so Flora's low speed basically disqualifies her for any real fighting role, and I should just go Strategist with the full support kit?
1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:As for Felicia, basically the same for her as with Flora, except she has more MAG/SPD and less STR/SKL. So Witch and Dark Flier may be more interesting. Falcon Knight is essentially a flying Strategist, but you don´t have access to the Bolt Naginata (I think?) and your Weapon Rank will be low anyway. Though you would get Rally SPD . Maybe Inspiration/Demoiselle/Amaterasu from Kinshi could be interesting for a Strategist/Falcon Knight support but that´s also kind of late in the game/expensive.
Dark Flier sounds pretty tempting because she'll get Galeforce, but will she end up getting enough player phase kills for it to have any real effect? That said, Witch is pretty much the best offensive mage class, yes? So would it be worth it to pick up Galeforce and then have Witch be her final class, dropping the support role entirely and just killing stuff? With Flora's A+ I can get her into the Dark Mage line and pick up Malefic Aura to help her damage.
1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:Hide contents6 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:I already have Elise set aside to be my dedicated healer,
The thing is, unless you make her a Maid, she´ll be both your dedicated healer as well as the Mage who makes enemies go away. Just as a side note.
Ah, thanks! Good to know she can do both if she needs to.
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I keep going back and forth on how to build these two. I enjoy them both as characters and I really want to find the best classes and skills that play to their strengths, but I'm not quite sure which direction to go with them. I already have Elise set aside to be my dedicated healer, so if possible I'd rather not go that same route with Felicia and Flora. But on the other hand I'm a bit hesitant to drop the support role entirely and go full-on offensive mage since their stats are pretty middling (not to mention they've got Leo to compete with in that department). That said, would a "combat healer" role suit them both well? By picking up some skills from their other classes like Strong Riposte and Sol for Felicia or Vengeance and Lifetaker for Flora, I can keep them both in Maid or Strategist as frontline support units who can defend and heal themselves in a pinch. I'm also shipping Felicia with Corrin, so she'll have access to the Pegasus Knight line as well if she wants Darting Blow or Camaraderie, or if Falcon Knight's a good class for her to stay in.
There's still friendship seal classes to consider too, but I'm benching Peri and all the second gen characters so that basically limits Felicia to picking up the Dark Mage line from Flora. I have both dlc map packs though if there's anything worth grabbing from those classes.
Does this seem like a good plan for them? I'm open to any class or skill suggestions. Thanks!
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4 hours ago, DriftingWaterBottle said:
I initially found Byleth’s dialogue choices about Rhea in VW confusing too, as their relationship to Rhea doesn’t seem to be as thematically important as in SS. Besides the “copypaste” issue, I now also interpret it as Byleth’s desire to learn of their origin, probably under the influence of Claude constantly questioning and trying to unearth Fodlan’s hidden history. I don’t think Byleth showed strong interest in pursuing their origin in CF or AM, if I’m not mistaken, and in SS I feel it’s framed as their emotional connection to Rhea that drives their action.
Ah, that's an interesting take! Makes a lot more sense imo than Byleth suddenly becoming Cyril/Catherine post-timeskip and fits right in with VW's theme of seeking the truth. I still think the sheer number of times she talks about Rhea is a bit excessive though. They should've dialed it back at least for VW.
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3 hours ago, Barren said:
If Rhea representing the corrupt way to run things in Fodlan gets in the way of Claude's dream of tearing down the walls of Fodlan to welcome everyone from all over and coexist in harmony regardless of religious belief, why would the Alliance work together with the Church to stop the Empire then later on TWSITD? Maybe there is something I'm missing here but doesn't Rhea step down as Arch Bishop by the end of Verdant Wing or is it just Azure Moon? I know that Azure Moon Rhea is not really in it at all and she really only talks at the very end of Verdant Wind revealing her encounter with Nemesis. I'm close to the end of Silver Snow story wise so once I get to that I'll give my own thoughts/analysis on that.
They work together for the same reason Edelgard allies with TWSITD and then wipes them off the map once Rhea's dealt with. Claude and Rhea may not see eye to eye idealogically, but they have a common enemy in Edelgard and then TWSITD. They can settle their own issues once those two are out of the way, but until then it benefits them both to work together despite their differences.
VW is a bit unclear on what happens to Rhea, she just sorta disappears after her Seiros/Immaculate One info dump speech. But if the javelins of light are enough to trigger her dragon madness on SS, it makes no sense why they don't on VW when the exact same thing happens. Least justified boss fight or not, it's still a huge plot hole.
But again, these are just my thoughts. VW definitely needed a better final boss than the one we got.
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16 hours ago, Nobody said:
At the very least, they should have swaped the SS and VW final bosses, as it makes no sense to fight Rhea in SS (The dragon madness thing is BS) nor it makes any sense for Nemesis to appear for Claude. Claude fighting Rhea makes total sense for his end goal, after all.
This alone would've been a massive improvement on so many levels. Nemesis definitely looks like a fun fight from what I saw, but he comes completely out of left field and makes zero sense thematically. I'm not even sure why TWSITD cloned/zombified/whatever'd Nemesis to begin with, considering their original plan was to use Edelgard as their "new Nemesis". They brought back Nemesis when that plan blew up in their faces I guess? lol
Rhea makes much better sense as Claude's final boss, as she represents the corrupt system and the failing leadership of old that stands in the way of Claude's dream for the future. Not to mention a three way final battle with Thales, TWSITD mechs and the Immaculate One all after your head would be badass.
16 hours ago, Nym said:A lot of people think CF is the worst route due to being too short and dealing TWSITD as an afterthought.
But I personally think a route being almost a complete copycat of the other is worse.
Especially when your main lord has almost no development whatsoever.
Agreed. I don't even get that complaint about CF, tbh. Hubert tells us in his paralogue that TWSITD will be dealt with in secret through assassinations, not typical FE battles. Which makes perfect sense as it doesn't hurt Edelgard's reputation as a leader the way another war would.
CF didn't need four extra chapters about putting poison in Thales's diet Sprite.
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts! :) Glad to hear I'm not the only one who felt let down by VW. I'm still playing with the idea of giving it a try and making the best of it hopefully, but yeah... so many things they could've done better. That sounds like a very interesting idea, @Sooks1016. I'd much rather have that VW, where the Alliance and Almyra take center stage, than the one we got. Something that breaks away from the other routes and tells Claude's own story, separate from Dimitri and Edelgard's war.
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...this route feels like such a letdown, especially compared to Azure Moon and Crimson Flower. I decided to watch a playthrough of the route to see if I'd like it before trying it myself, but in all honesty, I can't really say that I do. Claude's such an interesting, more "off the beaten path" lord character, and so I was hoping to see his route reflect that and take the story in a different direction. But in the end, there's just too many places where it wastes perfectly good story potential in favor of the tried and true. Which, ironically, doesn't ring as true on Verdant Wind.
- Judith not being recruitable sticks out like a sore thumb when AM and CF give us Gilbert and Jeritza as route-exclusive characters and VW gives us nobody. She's in all the cutscenes and she plays an important part in the story, but for no reason at all, she isn't playable. They could have patched her in just like they did with Jeritza, but instead they chose not to.
- VW was also the perfect chance to have some story chapters centered on Alliance relations and politics, like the conflict between House Reigan and Houses Gloucester and Ordelia. It would've been interesting to see a more fleshed-out clash of ideals between these houses, especially considering House Ordelia's connection to TWSITD, the fact that the Church hired Tomas by their recommendation and Lysithea's personal history with them. It feels like the Alliance had so many unique things it could've added to the story that just got overlooked in favor of the standard "kill the other two lords and then final boss" routine, which comes across weaker on VW than it did on AM and CF because Claude isn't as personally involved in the Kingdom/Empire war as Edelgard and Dimitri are. What goes with this is the fact that VW still uses Garreg Mach as home base, when there's really no reason it couldn't have been Derdriu. Dimitri had to use Garreg Mach on AM because Cornelia had taken over Fhirdiad. And Edelgard had to stay in Garreg Mach on CF to keep Rhea from taking it back. There's nothing actively keeping Claude away from Derdriu on VW except for Garreg Mach's strategic advantage of being at the center of Fodlan, which never bears any weight on the actual plot. And with so much civil unrest going on in the Alliance, leaving Derdriu probably isn't such a good idea either.
- Dimitri's death feels like it was tacked on as an afterthought. No proper death scene, no final words, not even a cutscene still, but just a passing mention from Hilda that he died is such a disrespectful way to kill off a main lord character. At least CF gave him an on-screen death and some parting words with Dedue.
- The relationship between Claude and the Church also felt very awkward. Claude talks about how he's against the teachings of the Church and disapproves of Rhea's actions, but this budding conflict never comes to a head, even when their common enemy is gone. Which makes no sense, as Claude's goal is all about breaking down the traditions of old, which Rhea all but personifies. It feels like the main antagonists of the route should have been Rhea and TWSITD, the two lingering specters of Fodlan's bloody past. With Rhea as the final boss after Thales (just like on Silver Snow) instead of a shoehorned Nemesis fight. Or the final stage could've been a three-way battle between the Alliance, berserk dragon mode Rhea and TWSITD, where both Rhea and Thales (or Nemesis but with better foreshadowing) need to be taken down to usher in a new dawn for Fodlan.
- All the Rhea shilling, especially in Byleth's dialogue choices and the final two chapters, just comes off as very out of place in Claude's route. Byleth has no reason to be as attached to her as she is in VW, and by the end it really starts to take away from Claude's story. It almost feels like something out of SS that they forgot to change when they copypasted it over to VW.
- Last but not least, and probably my biggest gripe about VW, Byleth is never given the chance to grow and become her (just gonna use she/her for simplicity's sake) own person on this route. On CF, she rebels against the Church and becomes a revolutionary, the exact opposite of what Rhea was grooming her to be. In the end, she even sacrifices her divinity for Edelgard's cause and returns to her old human self. On AM, where Rhea's completely out of the picture, Byleth cuts her own path with Dimitri by her side and fulfills her "destiny" in her own way, separate from Rhea's ambitions. On VW, she's basically there as Claude's holy good luck charm for the whole route. And then in the last two chapters, she just sucks it up and becomes exactly what Rhea wanted all along. No longer Byleth, no longer Jeralt's daughter, just the wielder of the Sword of the Creator and nothing more. Exactly what Leonie reminded her never to become back in chapter 11. This just felt like such a downer ending for her, especially after she'd experienced so much with her Golden Deer friends.
Anyway, I apologize for the rant. I just wanna say that I haven't completely written off playing Claude's route, I just feel like there's was a lot of potential there for a truly unique take on the story. And I found it disappointing that for the most part they simply cloned SS and called it a day. Claude and the Golden Deer deserved better, imo.
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13 hours ago, starburst said:
Note that while Four Houses is set in the Modern Era (as opposed to other entries, witch are set in the Middle Ages), the concept of “nation” is still very recent.
Look at a map of Europe from the late eighteenth- or early nineteenth centuries; there were kingdoms, confederations and empires, but no “nations” in the current sense.
The idea that the population of the territory shares a common language, common descent and common culture is a modern one, and very recent actually. Awareness and enforcement of this identity is however at the core of our current “nation states.”I do doubt that the modern concepts of “nation” and “nationalism” have a place in the setting of Four Houses.
Maybe "homeland" is the right word then? I know nationality's more of a modern term but I was stuck for a word. What I was trying to say was that it's based on where he's from, not any racial characteristics like language, culture, etc.
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12 hours ago, Anathaco said:
For one thing, I’ve heard it argued (and can kind of agree) that her conversations with Dedue aren’t an indication that she’s overcome her racism/prejudice/whatever you wanna call it. She learns that Dedue is a good person, sure. But the true test would be how she interacts with other Duscurians. She says that the people she hates are the ones responsible for the tragedy, but if she goes around treating other people of Duscur like how she initially treated Dedue, with distrust, hostility and suspicion, then she hasn’t overcome anything other than her poor treatment of Dedue. It’s a shame we never saw her interact with any Duscurians other than Dedue, so we have no way to know for sure if Ingrid did overcome her racism in that B support, or basically did a “one of the good ones” type thing, and the next time she meets a Duscurian, she’ll assume the same things she did of Dedue initially.
That aside, as far as I’m aware racism isn’t necessarily a blind, unfounded hatred. According to the definitions I’ve found, at least, it’s simply prejudice, hatred or antagonisation of a person based on the factor of race. How exactly that race came to be deemed as a negative thing in the mind of the person isn’t a factor as far as I know. You could have the most justifiable reason in the world for hating somebody, but applying that hatred to unrelated people just because they share characteristics of that group is prejudiced regardless. Similarly, you could have almost no reason to hate a group and still be prejudiced. Ingrid falls more into the former- she experienced loss at the hands of the people of Duscur (so she believes), and holds negative views of all of them because of that, which is understandable, and relatable to a certain extent.
If we were to compare her to somebody like Fernand from Echoes, Fernand lost his family to a peasant revolt and now holds bitterness and hatred towards all commoners- a classic example of prejudice (I guess it’d be classism in this case). Ingrid lost her fiancé in the Tragedy of Duscur, and now holds bitterness and hatred towards all people of Duscur. That’s also classic prejudice, but in this case it’s assigned based off of race or ethnicity- and either way both of those are forms of racism.
I do believe that Ingrid isn’t a bad person and has her reasons for hating like she does, but the way she treated Dedue was still a form of racism IMO. Just because it’s not unfounded doesn’t make it not racist.
But honestly I’m very inexperienced with this kind of issue, so this is just my thoughts based on what little I do know. I might have missed something major.
That's a fair take, honestly. The only thing I'd really disagree with is that her prejudice is based off race/ethnicity. I'd say it's nationality more than anything. I guess in the end though what it comes down to is where each of us draw the boundaries of racism. I personally feel that Ingrid, while clearly in the wrong with her treatment of Dedue, was in something of a sympathetic "grey" area compared to the outright "evil" of racism. And that's why she seems able to learn and grow past her prejudice instead of slowly becoming someone like Thales. But again, it's all a matter of opinion. I know this is a topic that not everybody agrees on, and I'm glad we could discuss it civilly without any accusations or caps lock.
As for Lysithea, yeah I kinda get why some people find her annoying. I don't really take her snark all that seriously, so I can laugh at most of it. But I can see why she's not everyone's cup of tea.
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18 hours ago, Kiran_ said:
Your entire argument is rooted on the idea that you're personally unsure if Duscur is home to multiple ethnicities or not, but from what we know and what is implied, it isn't.
Okay, I just did Dedue's paralogue today out of curiosity and it does look like the Duscur soldiers are darker skinned. But you're completely wrong to say that my entire argument is rooted in that. I made several points in my earlier post that you either misinterpreted or flat-out ignored.
18 hours ago, Kiran_ said:But by YOUR definition, Almyra isn't an allegory for race or racism either because it's ALSO a country.
Like this. When did I ever say that racism towards Almyra or Duscur is impossible because they're also countries? Never, that's when. I said that Ingrid's prejudice is based on the country's actions, not racial or cultural identity. The only time I brought up Almyra was when you were talking about Duscur being a "clear allegory for racism", when aside from a few throwaway remarks from nameless NPCs, that's simply not the case like it is for Almyra. Duscur's mentioned more times than not in reference to the Tragedy and nothing else.
18 hours ago, Kiran_ said:I never said her blind hatred WASN'T understandable.
You just contradicted yourself here. By saying it's understandable, you're admitting that it's not blind hatred. It can't be both.
18 hours ago, Kiran_ said:Anger and tragedy do that to people. It can create a blind hatred that no longer sees people as individuals but as a group. And it's that lumping of an entire group of people that is racism. You act like racism is just black and white, when it's so much deeper and multi-faceted than that. Racism doesn't have to be petty or random. It can be rooted in things. Anger. Grief. Pain. But at the end of the day, racism IS blind hatred. And that's what Ingrid faced, and had to overcome. Racism can be overcome. People can change. I don't understand what's so wrong about admitting that she was racist and overcame her grief, sadness and the blind hatred she felt toward the people of Duscur (aka: racism).
You... seem genuinely confused about what racism actually means. You're describing prejudice, which is a much broader and varied thing, and calling it racism. You're the one thinking in black and white here. Prejudice that's rooted in something like anger, grief or pain isn't racism because, well, it's rooted in anger, grief or pain. There's a legitimate reason behind it that isn't race. It still isn't right, but it's not blind, unfounded hatred. And that's why it's so much more easily overcome than racism. I mean, if Ingrid was truly racist deep down, do you really think a few conversations with Dedue were gonna somehow "cure" her? I certainly don't. That's a completely unrealistic expectation.
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1 hour ago, starburst said:
This is where I disagree with you. Ingrid does not go "wrong" in anything, her reaction is perfectly understandable. She might be a better person to us if her feelings and reaction were different, but there is nothing intrinsically "wrong" with them. If anything, they make her more realistic.
I only meant "wrong" in the sense that blaming people like Dedue (who clearly don't condone the Tragedy) isn't exactly fair. It makes perfect sense why she did, but it wasn't the right thing to do. But that doesn't make her a bad person at all. Ingrid's one of my favorite characters in no small part because of her kindness and loyalty. And like the kindhearted person she is, she realizes her mistake and apologises.
@haarhaarhaar I get what you mean about Ingrid's treatment of Dedue. But that's still not tied to race in any way. You're right, racism is just a specific type of prejudice. But "racism" can't be used as a blanket term for prejudice. Especially in cases where, unlike racism, someone's prejudice isn't unfounded. Ingrid's treatment of Dedue was simply a case of misplaced anger over something his country did that affected her. That's why it's so easily resolved. If racism was really the root of Ingird's anger, Dedue's words would've meant nothing to her because she'd never have listened to him. But that's a completely separate topic I'd rather not dive into here. It seems we both have different opinions on the way Ingrid acted, so it's probably best to just leave it at that.
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4 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:
Up until that last sentence, I would agree with you. In this case, the problem with the Ingrid support isn't really the reason why she's angry, but the logic she uses. Hating individuals based on what they've done is natural for most people and understandable. Hating unrelated individuals based on the fact that they share characteristics with people who've wronged you is irrational, and shows that you've mis-correlated the crime to ethnic or national attributes, rather than to the individual (or indeed the system that acts as an overarching cause). Ingrid has been fed a false version of events, that the entire people of Duscur are responsible for the tragedy that happened to her and her loved ones, and being lied to, alongside the vulnerability caused by her grief and pain, may mitigate some of her moral responsibility - she certainly isn't unrelatable, at any rate. She's also a good person in general, and eventually finds the wisdom to recognise the racist attitude in herself and begin to work on changing it. But she does allow hatred to guide her into believing what is an unlikely story, that every single Duscurian is responsible for her loss, that they all share the same negative traits that caused it, and she lets that irrational belief impact an unrelated person for the worse, who just so happens to be from the same place (Dedue). Like I said before, that's a pretty clear-cut case of racism.
This is exactly what makes Ingrid wrong in directing her anger at all of Duscur. But there's no proof that she uses race (by any definition) as part of her reasoning, so racism is out of the question.
25 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:There's still a lot of debate about the boundaries of race, and I'm not going to act like I'm an expert on it. But what is clear is that race refers to a whole conflux of attributes. Ethnicity and physical features are included, but so are nationalities, religions, accents and to an extent cultures.
But not a country's actions. That's because actions are something that can, well, legitimately piss people off without it falling under the umbrella of racism. Ethnicity, cluture, religion etc are all incredibly petty "just because" reasons to hate a country or its people because those are all part of a culture's identity. It's what they are. Actions, like the Tragedy of Duscur, are what the country did. Ingrid's anger towards Duscur and its people is purely over what they did. The attributes that make up race have no influence over her feelings. Where she goes wrong is in blaming the entire country for the Tragedy, which like you said was in part because that's what the majority of Faerghus believed to be true. In her supports with Dedue, she realizes that she was wrong to think this way and corrects herself. A true racist who hates based on identity, not actions, is less likely to own up to their crooked beliefs.
35 minutes ago, Ashe02 said:I would personally call the way Ingrid thinks of the people of Duscar to be more of a prejudice on her part than outright racism.
Exactly. Prejudiced would be a fair way to describe her.
Best Nohrian tomes for Leo, Felicia and Nyx?
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted
What's a good general use set of spells to give my offensive mages? I like being able to customize spell lists in this game instead of them being fixed like in 3H, but I'm not sure which tomes are the best ones to use. Leo's final class will be Dark Flier, while Felicia and Nyx are both going for Witch. Should I be filling up their inventories with spells? Or would it be better to focus on forging up a basic, reliable tome like Thunder and keep maybe one or two others on hand for movement type effectiveness or stat debuffs?