Cynthia

Except giving information on your side, so that someone else who was either undecided or was for the other side ends up liking your idea better, and in turn increases support for one side, and that support builds with more people over time, and eventually all those people have the potential to get together and actually change something they find unjust... It's a lot more productive than some of the other topics I've seen on this site...

I think you better read it, because at no point did I copy and paste. As for TheEnd, I think you are taking what I said a level too high, and a little too extreme. I simply was suggesting we should make an effort to not act like we have no maturity ALL the time.

Interesting... Perhaps more information on the song, and artist to help search?

While true, people shouldn't be afraid to express them. We live in a country(ies) where we are allowed to express ourselves, which is possibly the greatest right we have, besides the right to live.

Did you try searching for the lyrics too? And looking on Youtube? Sometimes I'll find a song on youtube, and I'll rip the video and convert it to MP3. If I truly have a hard time finding a song.

When you make a topic, you open yourself to criticism. That's just how it works. Criticism leads to disagreement, and disagreement leads to debate.

War is inevitable. You can't have peace without war, not if you want freedom. People died for the right for all of us to have our own opinion, and voice it freely without the government telling us we can not. Why should we not use that right? People have already died for this right, not using it is making their sacrifice in vein. I think you should look into the issue and form your own opinion Toa Lord Sothe, and be proud of it, and your right to have it. Don't be intimidated just because others disagree, as there is no way to agree on everything with anyone.

Well if NO ONE voices their opinion nothing gets done... We might as well all be forced to think the same thing, because what's the point of thinking something is wrong or right, but not opposing or supporting it? What do you accomplish then? What's the point in supporting or opposing something then if you're not going to do anything to change it or keep it the same? Ironically, knowledge comes from disagreement. If everyone agreed on everything, then we would never have a reason to question anything, as we'd all accept it as fact. Without opposing opinions society would not move forward. Hell, that's how things like slavery ended. Someone thought it was right, and someone else thought it was wrong, if no one voiced they thought it was wrong, then well we'd all have slaves still.

1. I don't see how it's a "terribly wrong," comparison, as it shows that we don't NEED to keep making MORE work for the moderators, and hire more moderators when the members can just learn to control themselves a little. 2. So you're telling me all the parents of these "children," and "teenagers," don't encourage them to act mature and responsible? I think YOU don't have a clue at how pointless it is to not encourage them to act mature. If no one does ANYTHING or says anything then they NEVER learn to mature. It's a system, and it DOES work, as after enough times people DO learn, however not EVERY person will learn. It's a 50/50 thing, some will some won't, nothing lost for those who do not, and something gained for those who do. I never said for them to be, "adults," anyways, I said for people to take some responsibility, which we SHOULD be starting to do in life ANYWAYS. 3. How can you disagree with EVERYTHING else I said? So you don't think people should take some responsibility? You don't think people should assist other members? I am not saying for EVERY last person to be 100% mature adults, I'm saying to at least make an ATTEMPT to behave ourselves to generate less work for the moderators, as really the goal is to have as few things NEEDED to be done by them as possible. Less moderation being NEEDED means less people are acting up, and less problems occurring. I also said that in my last post, so I guess you disagree with that since you disagree with EVERYTHING else. Seriously, we can NOT rely on the staff to fix EVERY problem, which everyone seems to be under the impression. We have to at least make an ATTEMPT to fix some of our OWN problems, as that's part of life. No one holds your hand through it. Repetition is the key to making a point. Make a point, stick by it, and make sure people listen to it. The second reason is because I was building on what I already stated.

Just because it's in the dictionary doesn't mean it's true, as there is no way to be MORE than dead...

So pretty much you're saying there is always going to be a side that is against it no matter what. In that case why have an opinion on anything?

You're still alive if you're in a coma, or sleeping. You're just observing low physical activity.

Well, last I checked you can only be the state of being alive, or the state of being dead. There is no way to be more dead than dead. Therefore you can not be "deader," than something... Otherwise there would be some kind of state in between being alive and dead...

I don't think "deader," is a word...

To be honest I don't this becoming a rule any time soon, and it really isn't too helpful, as sure it discourages people from spamming topics to get them closed like a couple of idiots, but it also discourages honest members who really are just trying to talk about the original topic. Plus I think we're all limited on privileges as it is, as more and more are getting taken away for the constant abuse of the few. Personally I think you should only report something is it TRULY can not be handled by the members, less we need the moderators to babysit everyone. By encouraging people to report EVERY off topic post instead of guiding the topic to the correct direction, you create more work for the staff members. Just to show a comparison, I'm on another site with about 26,000 members with about 95% active on a regular basis and they only have four moderators and one admin, and things work just fine. They are able to handle every situation, and they set up guidelines for the members to help themselves in an appropriate manner, so that the moderators aren't needed for every little incident. Now look at this forum, we have less than probably 120 active users, and yet we have four moderators and three admins. We have more manpower than a forum with 26,000 members, and people think THAT isn't enough? If it TRULY isn't enough, then obviously people are creating too much work to be done, and no one is being encouraged to handle their own problems in an appropriate manner, as they'd rather be babysat by moderators apparently. Come on people, think about it. Do you really want MORE things the moderators have to babysit us on? Now we need the moderators to make sure threads are on topic all the time? Something that can EASILY have been done by the topic creator, or the members? I find it a little sad that all these people that claim to be "veterans," don't do much to help the community or steer members in the right direction, probably outside of a select few. I'm sorry, but I really see, "minimodding," as less important of an issue than other things such as, "modbaiting," which really this new rule could be abused to do such, as people will just go looking for off topic posts to report a person they dislike for, over and over, and get their friends to do it as well. I DO think there should be a rule about saying, "this topic needs to be closed," either limit it, or eliminate it. Once ONE person says it, there is a barrage of people quoting that ONE post. Once is enough, if needed at all. I also think we should LIMIT how many people say a topic is off topic, as the same thing happens with that... The staff do their job quite well, and yet many more problems still arise. This is because people are forgetting the staff's job isn't to babysit us, it's to make sure the forum is functioning the way it was designed to function. People need to take a little more responsibility and learn to police THEMSELVES. I'm not encouraging people to go around and tell others what to do, however I DO encourage people to politely assist members that are unaware they are doing something wrong. What I am saying is to police YOURSELF. Really THINK about what you post are say, and take an extra few seconds or even minutes to ask if it's related to the topic, and if it could be taken as offensive, and edit a post that you think should have said either more or needs something pointed out. Really if we all REVIEW what we post a little more before posting it, the problem will drop substantially.

Accidental double post. -Deleted-

I'm going to be blunt, I have insomnia, and I am a bad insomniac. I sometimes go three days without rest, and can survive my weekdays on 1-3 hours of sleep.

I never said to "disrupt," the topic, as if you subtly add facts to relate to the original topic it isn't like all the people spamming to get the topic back on track. Secondly the moderators would be up to their necks in topic split requests.

I think you're forgetting, the topic title is to tell what the topic is about, and what draws someone's interest to click on it. Going off on a tangent, no matter how serious, or interesting is creating a misleading topic title, which qualifies as spam if you make a topic with a title that has little to do with the topic. The reason we try to get people to relate to the original topic is because the longer a tangent goes, the farther and farther it gets from even relating to the topic.

A little longer than that actually.

Well see if people didn't try to steer it back to the original post, whether subtle or using my method, then the moderators would be up to their necks in reports. Only report if a topic is REALLY off topic, and attempts to get it back on topic have failed.

Well, the usual. Sorry for not being on here at all, but the truth of the matter is I quit for some time. I decided to come back though and give this place another chance however. Before you say anything about it though keep in mind, there is NO one person or one thing that lead me to want to leave this place, it is a NUMBER of things here and outside of here. I decided to stay only because I feel that everything is worth a second chance. No one really convinced me to be honest, sorry but I'd be lying if I said you did, and I don't like to lie. Other than all of that I've been enjoying myself. Spending lots of time with my beloved, and working on writing, and other various things. I'm really excited because I get to see the fabrics the outfit I ordered soon. They expect to have it finished within 5-6 weeks, I actually can't wait to wear it.

Let you be decided for in my eyes by what you choose to do. You don't always have to do something I agree with for respect from me, but more of have good moral values.

Well I for one if I am directing a topic towards the original discussion and my subtle hints did not work, I will say that we need to get back to the original discussion, and then add something relevant to the original discussion, so it's not really spamming then. It is if that's all someone says though. I WILL agree on the "this topic needs to be closed," thing however, as on this forum as soon as one person does it, you get a ton of others spamming it until it happens, or those people give up. I say if it is REMOTELY related to the original topic, then there's no reason to close it. However if a topic is about say politics and it ends up talking about cats, than yes, people need to get somewhat back to the original topic, or take it to PMs or an instant messenger. In some cases though, the discussion can just be moved to the "Far From the Forest," section, and it'll be fine, however the problem with that is people spam it with MORE pointless posts. It's a win-lose situation, there's no way to make it have nothing but positive sides, without negative.

To be honest here's my view on the subject: Moderators are supposed to be our role models, and people selected by the board leaders to keep people in line. So why should it be a crime to assist them, or try and lighten their workload a little? I don't think it's needed to make a rule to punish people for acting like the people who are SUPPOSED to be role models anyways. People forget that there is a difference between, "minimodding," and just trying to get the last word, as a lot of the time people just say something like, "get back on topic," and people yell at them for, "minimodding," they are just saying to get back on topic because either their side is losing an argument, they are attempting to be a troll, or they are just trying to joke around. There's a number of different reasons they could be doing it, however there are people who legitimately are trying to help the community. Also keep in mind that a lot of members due to their disrespect for other members will do it just to have something to complain about for a person they dislike. Those people normally make it fairly easy to tell that's why they are doing it. Mostly after being around for a good amount of time, you'll be able to tell the difference, as a lot of members here just like to discussion to remain relevant.