Green Poet

I see that kirsche is claiming doc. Scratch #2, then. ##Vote: kirsche Looking at D3, you were the one who initiated a Beli turbo, probably to save your buddy FFM, and had even tried to turbo me before Randa and SB voiced differing opinions. Comparatively, I placed the first vote on Kinumi and maintained that she was scum throughout all of D2. I've gotten scum lynched. kirsche has gotten a townie lynched, and looking at the desperation with which he shifts everyone's votes in D3. . . is this a difficult decision to make? We have four claimed male VTs, but Rein/Juliette was also likely a VT, considering as we saw they reclassed. I think it's likely that FFM's VT claim is fake and that we're looking at a kirsche/FFM/??? scumteam here.

If I was scum: 1. I wouldn't be the first person to case and place a vote on Kinumi D2. I would have at least waited to see if it was necessary or viable if I was going to bus. 2. The real doc crossclass would've CC'ed me, since it's LYLO. Outing a town PR > losing the game. Looking over the rest of the pages I've missed now.

The rules don't state if ITPs exist. But I doubt they do, as both mafia and presumably SK would have had to target Blitz N2.

I'm a VT that reclassed into doc after Cam died, and protected kirsche N3.

Massclaim?

##Vote: FFM Phone posting is hard k

Phone posting so this will likely contain misspellings. @Elie - I'd consider that more strongly if SB had been playing more anti town and FFM had been townier. Atm the only thing that strikes me as potentially scummy about SB is how he'd gone on for d2 without really commenting on the Kinumi wagon, instead pushing FFM for most of it and only voting Kinumi when her lynch was assured. This in itself doesn't point to SB as scum, since even otherwise obvtown players aren't always right, but it introduces the possibility. An FFM lynch seems inevitable. His most recent reply to SB (can't link or quote it on this; it's the one questioning "basically fluff") feels just really off by asserting that SB's posts have been uninspired, despite the many people town reading him, while not elaborating on how they are uninspired or where specifically, or whether or not this makes SB scum. The rebuttal is brief and seemingly bitter (?) enough that I'm reminded of FFTA where FFM was bussed; the same isn't impossible here. I feel like Randa's continued insistence that he's sheeping SB is supposed to/could mean more, but I'm drawing a blank and am still null on him. Just never seen Randa play like this before. Going through his ISO, I see considerable filler, but stuff like his post speculating *YLO situations just don't look scum-intentioned. I think Elie's on the right track with pulling reads from Kinumi interactions, just not entirely confident in the conclusion drawn of scum!SB. Will look through Kinumi's ISO later on. We're not in *YLO, so putting FFM at L-1. Vote: FFM Anyone hammering before claim should be treated as scum, etc. Interested in seeing SB's reaction to the claim.

It's a valid point. The people that pushed your case the most are dead, and their deaths aren't diminished by being night kills; if anything, there could be a pattern there. I think everyone's already explained why this is bad - no explanation for FFM lynch priority, and a Juliette vote over someone he's "convinced is mafia." I would note that Beli's offhand comment about FFM makes it unlikely that the two of them are both scum, but that's all I'm getting from this. I think that scum likely exists among FFM, Rein/Juliette, and Beli. Randa and FFM had both been more or less null to me, so I'm going to reread them both. I'd have to find specific parts of posts to be more confident, but after reading through the last few pages I'm leaning town on Ace.

1 hour and 20 minutes left. Haven't got much to say. Just waiting on Lucas to post or a Kinumi sub to claim. I'd have preferred if Kinumi had claimed before subbing out, but as it stands, her lynch looks inevitable. If Lucas doesn't get modkilled, he might be a viable vig target. Not convinced that FFM's scum; will have to read him sometime. Will probably be around for phase end in case the situation changes.

Yay, people are sheeping my Kinumi case. @Blitz Looks like the third and fourth links are the same as the ones I'd assumed they were, and commented on previously. As for the first two, the exchange seems to be in a non-serious; SB's question isn't going to fool even completely newb!scum and is a simple reaction test at best, and Poly references self-meta in defense. Seems unnecessary when an equally terse/joking "nope" would suffice. So I'm actually questioning whether or not the second link was meant to respond to SB at all, since Poly asks "how did you come up with that idea?" afterwards and it doesn't seem to fit the context of such a briefly-worded question. What's you take? The more unnatural post of the two is Poly's here, whose playerslot is now yours, so I'm curious to see why you'd wanted me to examine it. At the time of posting, I had been leaning slightly scum on Ace. Kinumi was significantly scummier. Good answer. I get the feeling that Blitz' pre-Randa votes have been prodvotes, but he's explaining his thought processes and I can see the effort. More of a null read now. Randa's insistent presence in the thread feels really unnatural, in the sense that I've never seen him post like this before. Like with this post, I get the feeling that he's trying to convey frustration with what he perceives to be a slow-paced thread? I'm seeing a lot of comments dispersed throughout his posts in a vein similar to this: I don't understand what the issue is when only two players are presently not voting? It reads like excessive AtE to me, which isn't terribly warranted given he only has a single vote on him. Kinumi > Belisarius >>> Randa = Ace >>> people lacking enough presence for me to remember >>> Blitz > kirsche = SB

Some thoughts first, actually. Leaving the thread with just that would be meh. Ace's recent Beli vote doesn't sit well with me. Her issues with FFM and Beli are their lack of posting, which aren't superb cases in themselves, but why is Beli > FFM when she notes that FFM promised upcoming content, whereas Beli made no such commitment? The reasoning here doesn't reflect her lynch priority, and it's also odd in that it doesn't consider FFM or Beli's words and rather just their recent lack of them. I wouldn't call this surely scummy behavior, but it's not ideal scumhunting. A prod vote loses what weight it does have if it's moved to someone else. Beli likely didn't even see your previous vote before this one, and we know he didn't post a reaction. As it stands, Ace changing her vote after SB's post just reads like appeasement. Why is this an issue? Newbie players are just as likely to roll scum as experienced ones in any game, so being led to a mislynch is inevitable. . . unless you have reason to believe there's a higher concentration of scum in the experienced players here? Cam being town doesn't make his reads right, so trying to clear or otherwise determine the alignment of people who sheeped him based on this is extremely limited in effectiveness. This post by Kinumi feels insubstantial. I see two game-related thoughts expressed in it: 1. Kinumi thinks Randa is probably scum because Darros was lynched by the influence of Randa's scumbuddies. Without a vote analysis that specifically points to people on the Darros wagon as possible scum through interactions, there's nothing that makes Randa more likely than not to be scum. 2. Kinumi agrees with the FFM cases. Nothing original. At best, a reason to sheep an increasingly popular FFM wagon later down the line. ##Vote: Kinumi I see post padding, a case that's realistically unsupported, and an attempt to set up an easy wagon hop. Going to go over the FFM cases in the morning. He has a tendency to become a popular lynch for the first days of every game I remember, which has been more likely than not to lead to his mislynch.

Busy day today, sorry. I'll have a content post in the morning.

Alright. Either SB or myself can hammer Darros then.

Is this solely between Darros/Randa now?

re: Blitz "what do you think of SB's reaction to Randa's vote and Poly's (my player slot's) reaction to SB's vote?" I'm assuming you're talking about this vote by Randa, this response from SB, and this reaction from Poly? I think Randa's initial case on Poly is kinda meh. Use of self-meta is bad, sure, but his follow-up theory that scum!SB was trying to goad town!Poly into saying something scummy and capitalizing on it is hard to believe. It also doesn't explain why Poly is scummy; moreover, if this theory was to be true, one or the other could not be scum, yet Randa has scumreads on both. SB's response is fine. He picks at the flaw between the theory and Randa's reads for asserting that both he and Poly are probably scum yet not bussing, which is logical and seems rather townie. I can't really see Poly's issues with Randa's vote FHPOV and I think they're vague/subjective. He says that Randa's case feels forced, that Randa mislabels certain experienced players as new ones, and that his "interactions feel off." I do agree that it's forced, but don't understand how even intentionally calling someone new would be a scummy thing to do, and interactions seeming off is a pretty easy qualm to just throw out in any situation. TL;DR - SB's response seems town-ish and I can't completely empathize with Poly's response.

ISO'd Darros. This strikes me as odd because his vote has been on Randa for quite some time now. Why question your fellow wagoners, unless you actually believe that Randa isn't all that scummy (despite being the one you're voting for)? His reply to Belisarius was solid and looks townie to me. I think Beli's vote was very much in the spirit of OMGUS and Darros' even reply is townish in that he doesn't vote Beli in turn, and deconstructs the case impartially. Would like to hear what Darros makes of Beli's most recent reply, though. Null read, so I'll consider more content before phase end.

So it seems more people are of the opinion that Belisarius' reaction could come from town just as well as scum. I don't feel the same (imo exaggeration of the threat to oneself and paranoia are held by those who value not being lynched more than concentration on lynching scum, meaning that they themselves are probably scum) but it's clear that Belisarius will not be a viable lynch for today, so I will consolidate. ##Unvote Kinumi and Koneko have faded into relative obscurity, which I dislike. I disagree with Blitz' priorities here in that trying to lynch Koneko over someone who has given associative reads isn't going to help us as much. Prodvoting isn't ideal at this time, either. The questions Blitz is asking seem townie enough in themselves because they're encouraging others to not waffle and are asking them who scum is, though. Weak townread there. I get the same feeling. From what I've seen, FFM post a lot more when pressured as town instead of scum. I still feel that Randa is more likely scum than Darros, but I haven't been paying as much attention to the latter's posts and will do so before phase end. 1. Basically, the parenthesized bit at the top of my post. Scum fear for their lives more than town, and paranoia is an indication of this. 2. Fair enough. 3. To each their own. I think that clearing someone because what they're saying is "too blatantly anti-town to be scum" is ridiculous.

Randa cases being in abundance/not too valuable is something I can agree with, sure. I don't believe that town has reason to be as defensive as Belisarius was, though. He'd made the suspicion against him seem much greater and popular than what it was, and shows more concern with not getting lynched than actually lynching scum (his Darros case is subjective enough that I could've used the same words to justify a vote on anyone who'd been fairly active). 1. I think it's both disagreeable and scummy. My above explanation to kirsche may help to clarify. 2. Is it? I remember you calling me obvtown in P3M because of my "reaction to the votals" and nothing else, so I'd think that you would consider this gut feeling more valuable to state than not. 3. No one should be clearing someone off of WIFOM interpretation alone. Elaborating on my kirsche townread - 1. I like this approach towards someone when they uses self-meta. It considers the post rather than dismissing it with "you used self-meta; that's bad/scummy play and we shouldn't take it seriously, end of story." 2. I agreed with this and it's the same issue I took with Randa's reads on everyone but FFM and Ace. 3. It is. The "newb=/=town" discussion focused more on how a role PM would influence a player, rather than if they player's posts themselves had scum intent. While simply agreeing with many of someone's points doesn't necessitate that they're town, I think I would find more leaps of logic and assertions to dissuade more conversation rather than encouraging it (like with 1.) if they were scum. kirsche's post does the opposite. If you find this read excessive or too superficial, then just feel free to ignore it. I'm giving out my thoughts on the playerlist for those that are concerned, and for if they become relevant in associative reads later on. It's scummy because the way he words his cases waits for others to make cases instead, playing it safe to avoid his cases being considered by others: At this time, I still think Belisarius' overreaction to Darros' post is the scummiest thing this game has seen so far, so that's where my vote will stay.

This relies entirely on WIFOM. Better to consider Lucas' words directly rather than guess "would Lucas still be saying this if he were town/scum"? Also, this post by kirsche seems pretty damn obvtown, specifically the bit on self-meta. Some qualms with Randa's reads list. Apart from his reads on Ace and FFM, it's noncommittal: Asserts that FFM and Ace are possible scumbuddies. Those two cases are solid enough, but the rest. . . Not willing to offer a real read on either Poly or Belisarius? "I always think Poly's scum for some reason" means nothing in the context of this game, doesn't tell us what you actually think of Poly now, and avoids accountability for future Poly reads/lack thereof. Likewise, observing that Belisarius is acting aggressive but not telling us whether or not you think this, or the content of his posts, is scummy, means little. That you ask what others think reinforces my impression that you're simply waiting for others' reads on him to safely present one yourself. But what do you think of SB and myself? Belisarius > Randa.

Catching up now. After a skim, Belisarius pings me the most. This comes off as extremely defensive. Darros hadn't voted you nor even called you scummy for your post, yet you say that "everyone thinks you're mafia" because of his post? How is being conspicuous scummy? If you have a problem with the content of his posts rather than their frequency, present them, because what you've said here is subjective enough that I can't see the same way just by reading it. Your reasoning for voting looks insubstantial to me, and overly defensive against someone who'd made a comparatively far less threatening observation of your post. ##Unvote ##Vote: Belisarius More to come shortly.

Fixed. If the goal was to make someone dig their own grave, one of the new players would be a much easier target. I'm not seeing what it is about Poly in particular that would make him more susceptible to this trick, either. This theory reads like fluff to me.

I see. Fair enough. We'd have to assume that Lucas is defaulting to being as honest as possible when thinking that he wouldn't way to outright say things like "I don't want to seem scummy." That's tantamount to assuming that he's town, though, so I doubt that looking into these statements will help much. I'd instead like to see more of what Lucas thinks of the rest of the playerlist at this time. So far he's raised qualms with Ace's posts and no one else's, and the frequent "I'm not quite sure if this is alright" is inflating his posts quite a bit. This isn't terribly scummy for a new player, but it's hard to make a judgment out of, and something to note if it persists.

I encourage you to contribute your thoughts regardless of how sure you are of them. If you're town, you should be uninformed. I'm not actively watching the thread, so the "reasoning" is that I voted you in RVS and haven't checked the game since. I think that the explanation for your vote switch makes sense, though I'm curious as to why you unvoted afterwards. If SB's name isn't the scummiest thing you've observed anymore, what's your leading scumread? Is there something scummy about that? Does he seem overly defensive by referencing self-meta? As it stands, I see nothing inherently wrong about Poly so far.

Good to see you all again. Been away for a while; let me know if I've got these name changes right, please - Smug Brit is SB, Candeloro is Poly, Janus bet valnich is Randa, Sara. is Elie, Venari Strigas is FFM? ##Vote: Ace Tactician

/in