Green Poet

That doesn't sound like a last-ditch SK gambit, but. . . eh, I suppose it's still more advantageous to self-vote than to allow a universal loss to happen, regardless of one's alignment.

Yeah, guess we should. Someone said that the only ones that aren't cleared, or considered highly likely to be town, due to roles are myself and eclipse, was that it? As BBM's alive, I'm still unlychable today. I'll be defaulting my vote to eclipse if there're no other preferences for today's lynch.

Dunno if this is still relevant, but I should clarify - I'm initially Lynchproof, and lose this trait when a certain hated player dies, at the same time gaining my night action (which leads me to believe I'm BBM's backup). If I'm killed under certain circumstance, I'll become something that Elie vaguely said might be a stump variation. I claimed ambiguously to BBM in PM so as to discourage trying to kill me, in case he was scum. At no point can I become completely deathproof.

You all have my claim in circulation, right? And should I switch to Refa now, since we're pretty much all agreed that he's today's lynch?

Not sure I like Refa's claim. Have Refa and his other target proved that they can talk to everyone? I myself haven't gotten a message from anyone verifying the unlimited OC claim yet, even though it's been almost 24 hours since Refa announced the claim and it should be expiring soon.

Prims' pushing FFM since phase start looks pretty obvtown to me, yeah. Considering the role FFM flipped and how immediately Prims jumped on him, bussing seems out of the question too.

It is. Do you disagree, though? I agree with this, and hadn't considered FFM's claim in context with SB's read on him earlier. That contributed to a stronger scumread on SB.With the exception of his read on bladescape (I still think Terrador's behavior is a null tell, though maybe I don't know him as well as I assumed), I think Prims' list of scumteam candidates is reasonable. And out of the four, SB is the most potentially/conveniently scummy imo.

Dunno if I would call Refa scum because at the end of the day what FFM says is independent from what Refa says. The interactions are there but they're not a case by themselves. ##Vote: SB This is better because his shift in reads wrt Euklyd and FFM feel more solidly scum to me.

His Refa read goes from being based on a poor reason ("he's probably town because he's rolled scum so often") to an arguably strong one ("he's scum because of these tells") and if Refa is his buddy, the new read was probably deliberate.I think it's worth considering that FFM says that he didn't vote Refa prior to the listpost because he didn't want to appear sheepy, which reads like self-conscious scum trying to avoid voting a buddy while not arguing against cases on them.

Just reread and realized bear's vig was public. I skimmed the thread thinking it was a regular vote; my bad. FFM's reads list. Notably, he says he's leaning scum on SB, Refa, kirsche and Shinori, and chooses to vote the latter. He may or may not have been told to case buddies, so there's not much for it.

Why is bear town? If it's just because scum would have to be "really, really ballsy" to be less active, that's sort of WIFOMy and I wouldn't clear someone because of that. Also, is bladescape town to you because he voiced suspicions of FFM in his reads list? I think Eury and SB did the same as well, so we should probably go by the rest of his content first before trying to narrow down the scumteam by PoE. Poly has very little content and the only thing I'm having an issue with is how he's asked "are we massclaiming" twice, which I guess scum could take advantage of if people started to actually claim in response. Not enough to call him scum, but I wish he would post more. Also, can someone explain why SB is scum? I see that his reads change from the first instance where he says FFM and Euklyd are scummy, but he backs off both reads later and votes Marth, but this isn't scummy in itself to me. I think it'd be convenient for scum!SB to act like that (appearing to case a buddy ED1 and support the popular townie wagon, only to hop off towards the end of the day to remove himself from the mislynch wagon) but I don't see what's actually scummy about how he's been playing.

VT doesn't feel very empowered. Barring negative utility, rolling it lands you the weakest role of the least informed faction, so the disparity between the advantages you and a majority of the rest of the game have leaves something to be desired. It's because of this that I particularly liked SB's last game, where even those of us that rolled VT had some variety with action choices. Having stuff to do and think about outside of day phases just feels right, I guess.

So Terrador probably told you guys to kill me N1 amirite I think Makaze and Junko played exceptionally well, really hoping the former continues to play. Also big plays indeed.

I'm not seeing how a roleblock that affects everyone in the game could help town, because the conditions of my role and presumably others/informed depend on certain things happening overnight. Scum getting access to this seems more advantageous since it prevents these roles from developing. Non-speculation now: Shinori's response looks good to me. He explained his thoughts and though I may disagree with his reasons (i.e. voting someone entirely off gut) what he's saying fundamentally makes sense, and considering how early on in the game his post was, his answers seemed to be the honest and intuitive ones. ##Unvote Regarding Euklyd, I don't think what he's been doing is overly scummy. When I last gave my read on him I thought that his reliance of meta in constructing reads felt odd, but that's the biggest issue I had with him. However - I think this is something worth considering. I also thought it was a scumslip right after reading it, but then saw how it could've been meant as a joke, suggesting that the ITP reveal itself. However, Euklyd hasn't been cracking very many jokeposts/votes this game so far, and after Prims' not-entirely-serious message to Manix it seemed as though this sort of thing had ceased. I don't think the context affords Euklyd's response, not just because it was presumably a joke/slip, but because he decided to forego exploiting the person PMing him in favor of this dead-end response that would not help him catch the ITP. ##Vote: Euklyd

So this is rather rolescpec/flavorspec-heavy, but I'm pretty sure Ultima is an antagonist in FFT, and hookers are more often scum roles than not, especially so if the hook is stronger. . . did FFM not get assigned a fakeclaim, or are there actually "enemy" characters in town? My character is (loosely) friends with Marche and part of Gran Grimoire, so I would assume Marche is town. Isn't he the main character of the game as well? A disclaimer, though - I haven't played FFT myself and I'm basing these thoughts off of the FF wiki, so I'm not confident enough to commit to a vote based on FFM's claim alone. Will post more on non-rolespec stuff shortly.

##Unvote Got nothing to say on this slot until bladescape posts; welcome to SF mafia. Now, moving on to stuff I didn't get to before: Eclipse's post refuting Refa's reads is alright, but what strikes me as odd is how she refutes all of Refa's reads, without agreeing with or giving concessions to a single one. I would've called it tunnelly/scummy if she didn't have substantial reads on others, so "overly intent on picking out as much stuff wrong as possible with Refa" is the only way I can put it. Null read. Bolded is the one scumread I'm seeing in Shinori's post. The rest is "I don't like these posts" for reasons that aren't even given in some cases, and advice on what FFM should and shouldn't be doing. This doesn't tell us why he thinks people are scummy, just that he does. The first quote he has a problem with is "I don't like this post by GP and would've voted her for it if I was there at the time." What's happened between then and now to make you not want to vote me? Why didn't you like the post? You're not explaining you're thought process here. Why is FFM scum? You say you don't like his rolespec on BBM because it's a bad justification for a vote, but FFM isn't even voting BBM. He doesn't commit his vote to a read you think is bad, so how is that scummy? ##Vote: Shinori

This also sounds like the one of the most simple and plausible explanations. So, putting my vote where my mouth is. ##Unvote ##Vote: Terrador I'd have been hesitant of a Terrador lynch after realizing the similarity between what his role could be and mine, but if he is indeed scum, I highly doubt there could be a role that would punish or otherwise impede town for lynching scum. Going to read the last couple pages now.

No. No, I don't buy it. The Terrador I know doesn't give up after getting just two votes on him. He effortposted throughout all of P3M and requested that the game go on in the interest of sport, even after roles were universally revealed; this is thoroughly unlike him. I'm guessing there is either something beneficial to Terrador's faction that will occur if he is lynched, or perhaps his role is like mine and he effectively cannot be killed, and he's testing for reactions or something. Whatever he's doing, I still don't like how he's not responding to criticism of his cases. If he is indeed gambiting, this is a deliberately confusing way of doing so, and for this reason I think Terrador is more likely scum than not. Town does not have a reason to lie or play in explicitly antitown ways. On the off-chance that this post really was a product of frustration rather than scheming, I apologize. But as it stands, I have more confidence in Terrador's capacity as a player than this.

my bad, if we're talking about the same thing, I think that second to last line was meant to have come after a linked post by Refa that got eaten somewhere down the line.

Will read what's left some hours from now and probably change my vote then too

Refa rolling scum in this game is independent of his tendency of rolling scum in previous games. Like I've played seven or eight games and only rolled scum once, but that isn't indicative of me being likelier to roll town in this game. You should look at Refa and not let the assumption that "he's not statistically likely to be scum again" influence your judgment. No, I don't think anyone else actually referenced Refa's luck/chance. That being said: That is a joke though, right? I get that BBM is probably town because superhated mafia is pretty nerfed, but why is Manix's claim townie-sounding? It looks understandable if he's town since a suspicious-looking role like that should probably be outed early on, but since there isn't a way to verify or investigate how he's used it, it's an easy enough claim for scum to make, fake or not. Like I don't think Manix is likely to be scum because of what he's claimed, but I don't think that it's in any way a townie claim. I feel as though this is calling people out for not voting those that they're talking about? It's not so much "they're not committing to their reads" as it is "they're not voting people they've quoted" and I think that's an overly hasty approach to hunting and you're not commenting on the reads themselves. and Self-meta isn't particularly convincing. I do remember when SB made a comment in P3M about how I made a townslip D1, though no one (myself included) really understood it, so I can see that it may be a real tendency for SB. But it feels like SB's emphasizing this habit to argue why he had more null/townreads, and I don't like how it's basically all just self-meta. For what reason would one bus their buddy ED1, though? Sounds unnatural to say this since you're looking for who has content for you to comment on, not who the scumteam can be. Reads like it's trying to put responsibility of SB being correct about my alignment. Like, if I'm scum and SB guessed wrong, then SB's simply wrong. . . what else would there be to say? Right now he's not leading town and he hasn't claimed mayor or something, so why do you speak as though you're questioning SB's judgment? Getting odd vibes from Euklyd because of how frequently I'm noticing him going "but yeah I also have weak reads because it's D1" or "I don't really know much past what I've said," etc. I think it's rather odd how he decided to make an RVS vote on SB and then keep it on him once he was voted by SB. Seems pretty reactionary and not in line with the then-relevant discussion of Prims/Manix. [spoiler=naturally I'm not complaining, but his reason for townreading me is pretty meta-based] :D :/ :(

Here now, lemme read everything and take a look at this Refa wagon.

Will have to respond to stuff when I'm not sleepy and stuck with mobile; good night all.

Well, this is interesting. I thought I was the handicapped role, but Elie answered some questions and I'm not as sure anymore. Basically - being killed doesn't affect my capacity to continue furthering the town wincon, but by the same coin, it's close to a NL in practice and that may not be worth the potential loss of information. Whether or not this triggers is conditional as well, and I'm not told what conditions I need to fulfill. I've never seen a role like this, so I'm asking the more experienced players to advise on how this should be handled, and whether or not offering myself up for an experimental lynch is worth the effective NL.

It's ED1, so my scumreads aren't strong and I don't think they are either, but if you think they read more as purposefully graspy. . . that's fair and I actually can't argue with that. That sort of thing is in the same subjective/gutread boat as tone, so meh. . .Basically - do you think I'm scum, or are you just dissatisfied with the quality of my reads? What do you really think of Prims right now, though? If he's not town and I'm scum, wouldn't he be bussing me D1? This doesn't seem like a terribly good time for that.