Green Poet

Dudeaga should exist more, and should revote me in bold if he still wishes to do so. I'd like if ZM posted more as well. That's RVS, which is what we aim to remove ourselves from. I've also seen nothing of Vashiane. Talk to me, people, please.

1. Yeah, which is why I'm saying that. . . 2. . . .since a majority of the players had not posted, it's proportionally more likely that scum had not posted. I did mean to say that the votes were likely on town instead of scum. 3. I agree, conditionally. There's less of an advantage for scum to be noticeable. Scum that is not under pressure to post or appear townish is in a better position than scum that has made an effort to appear townie, and made enemies because of conflicting views/reads. If there's someone who is scum and hasn't at all posted yet intentionally, or very sparsely, they have escaped all of our notice and is thus winning, because we're chasing each other in circles and about to misylnch while their name doesn't even cross our minds. That said, this hardly ever happens, because townies do get people to talk, and extensive lurkers are vigged by policy. So scum tries to engage in scumhunting because this ideal is not realistic, but for scum to gain town-cred and try to lead town is a scenario that is significantly harder and more risk vs. reward inefficient. Not sure what you mean by the bolded. I'm saying scum!BBM is trying to appear townie, like any scum that chooses to post does, and that the resulting case is bad because of it. Is that not "open/visual" posting? Thank you; I'll take a look shortly.

To wit, Terrador's explanation of what swordsaging is was just "swordsaged" itself. Oh, I'm terrible.

My bad - I skimmed and saw your vote on page 1, believing it to have come after Terrador's. In any case, I guess Xehanort is our new object of contention? It looks like this is the only post he's made, so I'd rather like to see more from him first. Jumping between game threads atm. I don't see anything that immediately merits a vote right now (surprise, surprise) so it'll have to wait until I form impressions on everyone. I assume it's Terrador's stylized term for "ninja'd."

Yes, skimming =/= scum. It's the reliance on a scumtell (hesitancy to vote = scum) when it was ED1 and not applicable, not to mention that I'd already explained why I thought an FFM vote wasn't called for, that I have issues with. He should've read others' content and looked for scum intent instead of choosing to capitalize on some out-of-context tell to entirely justify his vote.

This is getting to the point where it's frustrating to have to repeat myself regarding FFM. Hopefully, this'll be the last time I do so. I didn't vote FFM because the "must claim ascetic ---> must claim VT" mentality is understandable when you consider his experience. I was one of the only people not on FFM's wagon in SFMM4 when he was ascetic, too; I just don't think FFM's "bad plays" indicate that he must be scum or should be voted. He's new. He makes mistakes. EO2 D1 was a nightmare for me because I unintentionally played in the most antitown way possible at literally every opportunity that I could have, and I'm affording FFM the benefit of doubt because of this capacity for questionable play coming from a townie. There were people who hadn't posted, and chances are at that, during ED1, every vote was being placed on town because the only players that will stick out to scumhunting townies are other scumhunting townies with differing opinions. TL;DR - I think BBM is scummy and Euklyd is arguably so as well, and would appreciate if thoughts were given on those cases rather than my lack of voting FFM. Yeah, I'm not terribly satisfied with it either, but he's my strongest scumread at the moment. . . well, however strong an inherently soft D1 scumread can be. -It rides an already established case. Scum has difficulty finding people to pin as scum; scum!BBM's play facilitates that process. -It puts words in my mouth. Strawman, whichever one would like to call it. It would be scummy of me to say that FFM is my top scumread and not vote him, which I did, according to BBM. It should be obvious that I didn't ever say FFM was my top scumread. Scum needs to change/exaggerate a townie's words in order to make a case on them feasible, which is what BBM's doing. -It tries to cite bad play without explanations in order to make me appear scummier. "GP's chainsaw accusation against Shinori and question about voting FFM with Poly have no substance" are not backed by any explanation as to why they're insubstantial. He merely states that they are, which scum does in order to give the false impression that they are scumhunting, and make others seem disproportionately scummy.

After reading the first two pages: @Makaze, Blyvern. Please don't edit your posts. I think this Ciraxis wagon is poor. The cases on him stem from him calling Terrador scummy for what the former interprets as an attempt to trick newb!PRs into claiming, which is something that's not impossible. Sure, Terrador may know for certain that he himself is town and retaliate thusly, but the subsequent sheeping by Junko, FFM and Blyvern is founded on the assumption that Terrador is in the right, and that's an assumption they shouldn't be making this early on. Elaborate? Cut by Terrador. Flattery will get you everywhere, friend. Don't you suspect Ciraxis as well, though? I think Xenahort's strikeout bit is him making to articulate that he agrees with the sentiments against Ciraxis thus far.

-What do you mean by "not allowed to"? My Euklyd case runs on the reasoning that he's scum who skimmed the thread trying to find good people to vote, and chose me because not voting an apparent scumread is a general tell. This doesn't apply very much in ED1, and he should've considered my explanation for not voting, as well as any other posts in the game, before deciding to drop a vote. It's a clearly noncommittal post, and I think you're focusing too much on "Euklyd voted but GP didn't, therefore the latter is scummy" without reading the legitimacy and context of the cases behind the votes. "Not enough content for me to base a vote on" means "I don't see obvious or inherent scuminess in any of the few posts in the game so far." When something pops up that pings me as much as Euklyd's post has, I think it merits a vote. And maybe you don't, so that's why I'm explaining my thought process. -His case on me borrows elements from Euklyd's (which I'd already addressed), and he doesn't respond to anything I've said about his post before rephrasing the same things.

I was under the impression that I was newer than you are, actually. Anyway. . . . . .lol, were you thinking about the same instance I am? I've only lied/gambited once as town, in P3 mafia where I was a bomb and had OC with the dayvig. I claimed dayvig in the hopes of drawing nightkills away from him and reflexively killing scum. Terrador, your surveying seems like a theoretically townie play to get us out of RVS in a game of mostly newbies, but I have to ask - what sort of reactions are you hoping to get, and what will you use them for? To construct hypothetical meta on people, or something else? I mean, it's not as though Makaze would have said "I think we should all massclaim now" in response to your last question; I'm sure there would be at least enough coaching in scumchat going on to prevent anyone from slipping.

I'm getting two things from this post: (1) GP is scummy because she didn't vote FFM despite making a case on him. (2) GP's Euklyd vote is bad. I've explained more than once why I have decided to do (1), to multiple people. I now do have a vote out, and fail to understand why you dislike the case. You are not giving me reasons as to why you believe (2), nor have you responded to anything in my earlier post. What you've offered here is essentially the same thing as what you last posted, but without addressing any of the issues brought against your case. -If you want, offer and argue a definition, or I have no thoughts to offer. -Number of someone's posts =/= how scummy I think they are. -What sort of game-related response were you expecting to this? -Yes. Will try to post more, about other people, shortly.

Maybe I shouldn't have tried to play two games at once. Ah well. . . I'll try and get caught up in this game right after I do so in Almost OCs. While I'm here, though: It's when everyone is prompted to claim their role in quick succession. I'll not give examples of when this is typically called for, since that's what Terrador seems to be wanting to see in your reaction.

1. I didn't say I found FFM definitively scummy, and he was never my top scumread. You're inventing a lynch priority and calling it mine so that it better suits your case on me. 2. Explain how they're insubstantial. I'm seeing nothing beyond "these statements have no substance." 3. That's subjective. If you want to call any vote in response following another vote OMGUS, all I can do is call out how shoddy a judgment that is. You're entirely ignoring the case behind my vote, instead opting to pick out only how it comes after Euklyd's vote on myself. In other words, you're being opportunistic and basing your vote on the order posts are made instead of anything the posts talk about. If I was going to OMGUS vote someone, I'd have voted you last page. I didn't because yours was a solid vote that I could see the reasoning behind, and now I'm starting to doubt that with the opportunism I'm seeing in this post.

Sorry, is this referring to a game mechanic? Likewise. ##Vote: Euklyd There wasn't enough content for me to confidently base a vote on earlier, as is typically seen from the lack of content during ED1. You're applying a scumtell of hesitancy to vote at a point so early on in the game that it isn't reliable, and you're using it instead of judging and deconstructing any actual content. Your vote doesn't take into account anything else I've said, nor my explanation for not voting, relying on a "this sort of behavior is necessarily scummy" tell rather than what's wrong about what I have pointed about others' posts. If you just got around to reading this game, I'd expect you to have looked at others' posts and their reads to have a grasp on what everyone's saying, else you're simply picking at whichever apparent scumtell is out in the open and convenient for you to vote on. Right now, you're scum trying to contribute by relying on a false tell.

Oh dear. I should've worded this better. No hard feelings, Poly; I meant to say that your questions looked like the start of a case on me, so I started to be reflexively wary.

I'm not confident that anyone I could vote based on content at this time is more likely scum than not. I didn't toss out an RVS vote, by choice. FFM's claim doesn't necessitate that he's scum, and reasonable explanations as to why he would make it have been raised. What Poly's been saying doesn't sit well with me, probably because I'm personally biased against his queries, but he's scumhunting and exercised discretion in not voting me alongside saying this: Basically, everyone here is scumhunting, and half the playerlist is unnaccounted for. Why vote when I don't have a case I believe in? I think what constitutes passive-aggressive behavior is kind of subjective? What to expect depends more on who we're talking about than their alignment, and it's possible that what some may call a passive-aggressive post from FFM was an expression of frustration at being criticized for claiming early on when he was criticized for doing the opposite in a previous game. Is there something unfairly self-incriminating about being made to give a "kneejerk reaction"?

"Picking at" bad play = bad play? I don't understand what you're finding disagreeable. I don't think that judging FFM's meta is anywhere close to as telling as his content, but your bolded statement suggests otherwise. Regarding the insight you asked for - I pointed out what I felt was poor about FFM's play because I thought it would contribute to discussion and get us out of RVS. As has been stated, FFM hasn't rolled VT before and is relatively less experienced, so it's not out of the question that he would claim as he has as town. That said, neither of us intend on voting FFM at this point, so is this still a matter of contention to you?

Actually, I should rephrase: Shinori, do you believe Refa's haste in responding, and catching that play, is scummy? I'll vote whom and when I think doing so will be useful. Or are you asking me to vote FFM with you, Poly?

If you believe you've made a mistake, there's nothing wrong with saying so. You'll notice that I don't think your post was definitively scummy, and I didn't vote you for it. Right now you look as though you're trying to use your level as experience to justify your play, instead of commenting on the play's value to the game. And you look like you're tossing out chainsaw. Refa's voting someone for a clearly antitown post. Do you believe his recognizing that is scummy? It's not telling enough to the point that I would vote him, no. But as I've said, the play is decidedly not pro-town.

It is worth keeping secret. If your claim is legit, what you've just done has narrowed down the mafia's list of who the PRs are by one. And if you're a goon, then you've just secured an explanation as to why you're still alive for the rest of this game, because "I'm a VT and the mafia doesn't want to waste their kill on me." I don't see any scenario in which claiming VT at the start of a game is a pro-town move.

Confirming.

/in

/in Current timezone is CST (GMT-5:00) but I'll be in PST (GMT-7:00) from the 16th and on, so it'll probably be that for most of the game.

Yeah, I'll have the time for this newbie/trainee game. So I guess /in now, unless there'll be a signup thread later.

ITTD, I think. It's the only game in which I've rolled scum, so it sticks out to me the most in that I remember checking the thread every few minutes for days on end wanting to see immediately if anyone had made a case on me. . . then I got lynched D2 and yeah but still fun stuff.

Yay, this thread finally got made~ I've never gotten to play ITP, and I found I couldn't play very convincingly at all in the one game I rolled mafia. So I guess I prefer playing town, if just because it's easier to speak genuinely.