blah the Prussian

I mean, if the Joker was in Nazi Germany he'd probably just do his damndest to make the whole thing come falling down. As long as he's not in Nazi Germany, though, he should have no problem with them. Joker has absolutely no reason to give a fuck about the Nazis or their victims, basically. If working with the Red Skull meant that he got to stick it to Batman he'd do it, though he'd turn against the Skull if he tried to kill Batman; Joker can't have that. Edit: to be fair, being gay was something everyone would at least make your life unpleasant for back then; see Alan Turing.

Shall I venture to the Tibetan mountains to redeem myself? Alternate snarky comeback: it's okay, I thought I was too.

Well that's just completely against the Joker's character. Since when has he ever defended any moral position besides total chaos?

I don't know, wouldn't the Joker hate the Red Skull because Joker is about causing chaos while Naziism is about totalitarianism, kind of the opposite of chaos? They're different kind of evils, but both are equally bad.

Ooh, that gives me another idea: Begnion and Nohr were once the same country before they split due to a religious schism, which is why both are so similar to Rome.

I would say have the Greil Mercenaries be in the game. The prologue would be showing Ashnard's capture of the Crimean Capitol, and Elincia's escape. I could see her being joined by her retainers, but they wouldn't be pre promotes and they'd just be Geoffrey and Lucia. If I'm being charitable there would be one filler chapter between fleeing the castle and meeting the Greil Mercenaries. They would still be involved and Ike would be a more plot important Ogma. He would be a major character, but not a lord. The escape to Begnion would go as normal, but have Ashnard kill Greil instead of the BK; maybe also have him comment on how Greil betrayed Daein or something. Shiharam replaces the Black knight as a Rider. Also: make Sanaki older. This is unrelated to Elincia being the protagonist, but, seriously, no ten year old is that smart. She's a great character but it felt contrived. Make her 15 or something. So once they get to Begnion this is where things really start to diverge. Ashnard uses Begnion sheltering Elincia as an excuse to invade Begnion. He also uses the Senate as a fifth column; it always wierded me out that the Senate didn't act when Begnion was at war with the extremely racist King they could make common cause with. Ashnard would of course plan to turn on the Senate as soon as he no longer needs them. Anyway, Elincia and co first move against Oliver, Lekain, and Valtome, beating them in a series of chapters. During that time, though, Daein, led by Ashnard himself, besieges Sienne. So Elincia going back to Sienne is also where her big character growth moment happens, because this is where she fights Bertram. He isn't a monster here, though; he is still somewhat recognizable as Renning, making it hard for Elincia to bring herself to fight him. Her doing so, and killing him regretfully, is a sign of her maturing as a leader. Ashnard, meanwhile, kills Sepheran before being weakened. This means that a mutual respect can develop between Sanaki and Elincia, as well as Ike. The group then assaults Serenes Forest, where Daein is to get the Fire Emblem. Daein does get the Emblem, but that doesn't matter because it's time to liberate Crimea! Yep, Crimea will get liberated first; that never did make sense to me in POR. So this brings Begnion, Gallia, and the bird Laguz countries together into a coalition (getting Lekain to undo Naesala's blood pact would be a plot point) and after several chapters Crimea is liberated and after several more Daein is finally defeated. The endgame would involve a mechanic similar to the one found in Part 3's endgame in RD, that of defeating Ashnard before enough soldiers are killed to awaken the Dark God. So yeah.

Second part. Uh, yeah. I have a subjective opinion that Ashnard is a kickass villain much more interesting than the Black Knight, who is the bitch of another bitch, and I also have a subjective opinion that Elincia's RD character arc was more interesting than Ike's and it would be better still were she the focus of POR. These subjective opinions are no different from your subjective opinions to the contrary. Also for the record, Sanaki and Micaiah should have been the co main characters of RD, not Ike and Micaiah. I meant that Elincia's story shouldn't have been a subplot in the greater context of both Tellius games.Secondly, the problem with this is that the final BOSS FIGHT is not against Daein as a country, it's against Ashnard. If Ashnard had been built up to an acceptable level, that would be fine. The WWII thing is a somewhat bad analogy because history has already built up Hitler enough; that's why he needed no introduction in Wolfenstein (admittedly Wolfenstein is hardly a story heavy game). Ashnard, though, has no such luck; the only big build up moment he has is orchestrating the Serenes Massacre, and that got retconned to be the Senate's doing ((bloody hell RD). He needs more buildup than what he got, and I believe that that buildup would have been more natural had Elincia been the protagonist.

Ashnard. Lets go over all the ways Ashnard kicks ass: 1. He manages to be completely evil but believable at the same time. While being unambiguously evil, he has actual motivations and ideas that he wants implemented: creating a Social Darwinistic world order. The game showing you the worst that can happen when merit isn't appreciated in the form of Begnion also serves to make the player think that maybe he has a point. 2. Ashnard is by far the physically strongest human character in the series. This does lead to a problem, though, which is that we never get to see him fight before the final battle; that's a problem with the game, though, not Ashnard. 3. He's no one's bitch. Ashnard isn't being manipulated by some evil wizard, he doesn't want to worship some Dark God, and, above all, he hasn't been possessed by a slime monster. It's just him; human greed and human evil alone leads to war. I personally think that that's the best element of POR's story, and it doesn't get talked about nearly enough. If anything, Ashnard makes Yune his bitch, because his ultimate plan is to cause a battle so great it would lead to the destruction of civilization, and a return to survival of the fittest. The Gods are nothing more than weapons Ashnard uses to accomplish his goals, and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is fucking badass.

Ah shite. Changing my vote. And yeah that scene is funny but it's basically to make fun of Narcien for how pathetic he is; he's so non threatening, he can't even get his own sex slave to be scared of him! And then the punchline comes if you have her fight him in CH 16. But that isn't him being over the top, it's him being pathetic.

Fates, regarding history: Conquest is the path that canonically happens. However, the version of events presented by the game is Nohr whitewashing its past Japan style. Birthright, meanwhile, is an alternate history novel. Revelation is a popular conspiracy theory that originated on the FE version of Reddit. Awakening: Regna Ferox is as a result of a Constantine like Khan dividing the nation. Plegia exists because Marth led a persecution of people loyal to Medeus, which only strengthened the faith. Plegia was also a full on theocracy before Gangrel, and Validar's family ruled it. Finally, Archanea experienced some massive climate change between Marth and Chrom. This climate change was also what caused the collapse of Marth's empire. Finally, the world's of both Awakening and Fates are on the cusp of the Age of Exploration. This new age, though, will be driven by the exploitation of the Outrealm Gate. Eventually, each continent becomes a combatant in a massive war for control of the multiverse that leaves millions dead. Edit: also, guess who meet each Other? A victorious Hoshido and a victorious Nohr. Archanea and Jugdral take place on the same continent. This also makes Galle Gharnef.

Selena and Beruka? Really? Granted I'm biased because when I did my run of Conquest they were the badass lesbian battle couple from hell, but seriously? They worked out fine for me.

The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, baby!

16 faced, you mean? And yeah the guy next to me is a tad baby faced but don't tell him I said that for the sake of my health.

Hey, the Stacie is a work in progress!

I'm far more partial to the King and Queen; when faced with a crisis they didn't understand they put their people ahead of their daughter. The sentiment behind that, at least, I can respect, new matter the results.

The best approach to this, I'd say, is the Falcon approach. The Falcon wasn't the first Black superhero, but he was the first that was handled well, in that him being black was completely irrelevant to his character; he wasn't the token black Avenger, he was an Avenger who happened to be black. LGBT characters should be handled the same way; don't make a big deal out of it, don't write them any differently from how you'd normally write them. Well, it could be worse. Elsa at least has a good understanding of Keynesian Economics.

I don't care one way or the other about the sexuality of either character. I'll be quite unimpressed if they make a big deal out of it in either case. Elsa IMO has much more... pressing character issues, like the whole froze over her kingdom and suffered no consequences stuff.

Narcien is too much of a scumbag to be enjoyably evil. The game tries to push this under the rug, but he tries to rape Clarine, a teenager. At that point you aren't fun to watch anymore. Valter in my mind is the best. Edit: Narcien autocorrected to Marxism. Freudian slip?

First of all: don't insult Ashnard by comparing him to Gangrel. Gangrel is just pathetic. Ashnard is a badass warrior King who's no one's bitch. I personally prefer Awakening to Birthright, Conquest to both, and I haven't played Revelation. I can't agree about pair up; it made gameplay more interesting, although Awakening's amount of content beats out Birthright. Conquest's map design and music, though, kicks the ass of Awakening. Comparing the stories is like comparing Hitler to Stalin; it's kind of irrelevant as both suck.

Yeah that is weird now that you mention it. To be fair Tibarn is more experienced as a leader than Elincia, but still.

So yeah, just discovered that this thread existed. I would be doing you all a great disservice were I to not post here. In case you wanted a slightly more completely horrible pic of me. Here I'm in Chemistry, which might explain the look of utter misanthropy on my face.

Rommel: I think you somewhat contradicted yourself. Ike being knighted isn't a major moment of leadership for him. The climax of Elincia's character development is when she makes a choice to put the needs of the many above the needs of the few, which is behavior fitting of a leader. What moment does Ike have when he first behaves like a leader should, not, for example, being driven by emotion, but rather logic. Here, let me suggest one: Ike and company stumble upon some villagers, maybe five or so, that are being attacked by some Daein soldiers. It turns out to be a trap, and Ike needs to withdraw to save his entire army from a losing battle. Ike at the beginning of the game would fight to the end, but, because of Ike's experience, he now knows that he shouldn't fight this losing battle, and thus he has matured as a leader. He has no such moment in the game. Regarding Ike's main drive, yeah, that's what I meant, she exists as a plot device here. I really don't get what you mean by that last bit. I really don't see how Ashnard is more prominent than the Black Knight. Ike and Ashnard never even meet until the endgame (correct me if I'm wrong, been a while since I've played). I also think you contradicted yourself here; the main objective is to beat Ashnard, but beating the Black Knight is central to Ike's character. The climax of one's character development should also, generally, be the climax of the story if that character is the main character, of course. Two chapters after Ike defeats his main rival throuout the story is two too many. Admittedly this is more of a beef with the Black Knight rather than Ike, but seriously: how many scenes is Ashnard in? What reason does the PLAYER, not Ike, have to feel motivation to beat Ashnard? That motivation is certainly there for the Black Knight, but Ashnard is so underdeveloped that the story doesn't translate to the gameplay well (yes I am shamelessly ripping of Really Freakin Clever). It's not so much that Ashnard isn't a threat, but that the Black Knight is more visibly a threat throughout the story. How many times does Ike even mention Ashnard?Okay. Ike can be involved in the politics of Tellius, I suppose, but the fact is that he isn't. Elincia is. Quite simple, really. As for the strong females I definitely agree, but they only really show up in Radiant Dawn, with the exception of the Serenes scene, and that doesn't happen to Elincia. Elincia also doesn't do anything significant story wise because she joined the fight; she can fight Ashnard, but, well, she can't actually harm him. Harming him is Ike's job. Finally, the last bit. Elincia's sub plot being a sub plot in the first place is the problem (and this is a problem with RD too) because Ike and Micaiah took the focus away from her. Also, you have to admit, it is better story wise for her to go through that development in Path of Radiance, simply because the stakes are higher, and everything is more epic.

No, but it devalues the final boss fight because there is little to no buildup for Ashnard. It would be like having Darth Vader die in the middle of Return of the Jedi and then have Luke fight the Emperor as a climax; it would be lame because the climax is what the entire story should be leading up to. The final confrontation with Ashnard was not what POR was building up to. Before you ask, yes, I think its bad in other FE games where the climax is far from fighting the main rival, like in FE6 and FE1. It was less pronounced there, though, because Zephiel and Gharnef didn't repeatedly appear before the protagonists of those games, and while Gharnef killed Marth's father you don't see it. Ashnard is an afterthought compared to the Black Knight; the revenge story outright steals the spotlight from where the story should be: the Mad King's War. The latter instead serves as a mere set piece for this rivalry. But what does he actually do to codify this development? He never has a moment like Elincia sacrificing Lucia, and its never shown how he grows into a leader. As for Shinon and Gatrie, Shinon being the token jackass of the group, as well as leaving explicitly because he was too proud to serve under Ike, seems to me to be a very negative way to cast that decision. Yeah, a good foil. But the thing with foils is that they aren't the main character, they exist to accentuate the traits of the main character. And his story being mixed with Elincia's is a bad thing because he acts as a lightning rod for the character development that should have been Elincia's but its far more small scale and far less interesting. Elincia's character development in Part 2 is good, but its also rushed. Speaking as a moderate feminist, I dislike Elincia in POR precisely because her only reason for being in the story was to give Ike a reason for wanting to fight Daein, as opposed to just killing the Black Knight. It would be more interesting, in my mind, because it would be more large scale, the stakes would be higher, and, once again, the climax would be more climactic. This goes for Ludveck, too. The confrontation with him was built up for a few Chapters. The confrontation with Ashnard should have been built up for the entire game. Ashnard is more menacing than Ludveck, and he's more interesting; its that simple.

No, it was just quieting the concerns of an earlier poster who worried that it would impact the cinematic universe.

But is Ike good just because he's unique? What character development, really, does he go through? I admit there's some, but it isn't enough to fill a whole story. The Ike vs the Black Knight story would have worked better in a different game, or how about making Ike the mercenary archetype and having the Black Knight thing be what it should have been: a subplot? Either that, or have Ashnard be the one to kill Ike's father, although that would still have some problems. Answer me this: when does Ike show the strain of being a leader? How does he grow as a character as a result of his leadership position? It doesn't help, either, that Shinon and Gatrie are said by the story to be wrong with very little room for debate. Ike, essentially, is boring, and his story mixing with Elincia's story ended up negatively effecting both the political and the revenge aspects of the story. I also disagree that making Elincia the protagonist would be cliched for two reasons: firstly, no FE game would have had such a focus on being a leader, and on the challenges associated with it; admittedly, Marth and Part two did this somewhat. Answer me this, however: how much more powerful would Lucia's execution scene had been if Elincia was refusing the demands of Ashnard, the megalomaniacal conquerer who murdered her parents and raped her homeland, as opposed to Ludveck, Mr. Generic Bad Guy #50? Secondly, Elincia would have basically exactly the same coming of age aspect as Ike, but combined with the political concerns that the story's worship of Ike shoves aside.