(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!

[Refa]

8 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

The biggest thing that gives me pause about Prims is his interactions with Marth from like, page 12. I don't like the OMGUS vote, it feels overreactive, but I'm trying not to tunnel.  Things are probably hinging on the Makaze slot. I actually totally get now what someone said about him feeling submissive lol.

What did you think about his Marth interaction? Do you think this it's a scum vote? I've seen Prims do this as both alignments so I didn't pay it any mind. 

What do you mean by submissive LMAO

[Bluedoom]

Idk man I've spent the last hour reading this and don't feel like I'm making headway. I'll have to read Refa's responses more but at least among makaze/rapier/weapons I'd be comfortable voting out makaze here, I think the explanation for his cases boil down to "trust me bro" which is like. dude if you're trying to convince anyone(and you should) of your reads, you're doing a terrible job at it.I guess Weapons' behaviour can be construed as WIFOM but I haven't been feeling it tbh.

 

I don't like Shinori's vote on percy, not because of the logic(that was my initial reaction too upon reading his post) but because that kinda ignores what's happening in the thread over the last few pages when it was dropped, and there weren't other posts about other things in the thread.

 

[Prims]

Regarding Weapons vote: My impression today that if there's scum!Weapons, his gameplan was that he realized he's under fire and needed to step things up, so he wrote stream of conscious posts that get read as townie without actually doing that much. Wasn't sure if this was actually the scenario or just town!Weapons, but his response to the wagon on him being gone moving his vote to me struck me as like the scum!Weapons interpretation - I'm not a likely lynch, and if you look at Weapons' posts he's not actually pushing me hard at all, so to me it came off as moving to a votepark now that the spotlight isn't on him anymore while also being cheeky about it.

From there I was curious how he, while active in thread, would react to his suspect suddenly showing up to OMGUS him with no explanation, but his response so far has been mostly to duck out of the thread without talking about it, which is... not really what I anticipated from town!Weapons here either? Like, OK I got cut by a post saying he's trying not to tunnel which I guess is fair enough for an explanation why his response wasn't very aggressive, but there's just not really a push to lynch me in general even disregarding the OMGUS. @WeaponsofMassConstruction am I actually your strongest read and/or preferred lynch right now? do you view me as actually lynchable?

I don't have anything solid on Refa at this point but they just instinctively feel like scum to me, sort of oddly passive and docile for no reason. example: here Refa says they like BT's recent content. their previous interaction was Refa asking BT for non-Refa reads. BT does not even answer that question in between these two posts! I guess this could be about BT's Rapier line of inquiry but Refa is still waffling about Rapier at the end of the post?
It's very hard to make a productive case here because there's no one big point against them, I just read their posts and notice small things here and there that make me go "eh, huh, is that really how they feel in this situation if town?"
Weapons/Refa as a scumpair seems unlikely to me which makes me feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

The Percy/Shinori spat was weird. tbh I had been reading them both as "tonally town but I'm not yet 100% sure it's outside the realm of what I believe they can fake". I don't find either lynch interesting today. I would like to bounce my thoughts about Weapons/Refa off Percy also if he's around. I don't know how caught up he is though. @Percivalé

[Refa]

I was less waffling on if Rapier was scummy and more coming up with reasons to vote one over the other, because they were both bothering me. In the end I decided his vote on Weapons wasn't really alignment indicative (with relations to my position) for the same reason I've changed my mind about Boron's voteswap earlier on.

Did you think they (Percy, Shinori) could have been faking the spat? It didn't read as faked to me from either end.

[Refa]

*vote one of Rapier/Weapons whoops

[Prims]

I don't think it's scum/scum, no. I don't think that while Percy is struggling to keep up with the game, he or Shinori go in scumchat and say "hey wanna fake a spat to draw attention for some reason", mostly because I don't think anybody actually came out of it looking townier. It was just... there. It reads organic and not staged.

btw Makaze is pretty much in my "solve later, maybe town" pile at this point. I'm not sure how much it's worth elaborating on it because it's WIFOMy. In general I do think the only teams with Makaze in them have his buddies die off early and leave him to get PoE'd. The point about him being submissive kind of goes away when he's ultimately been sticking to his obtrusive posting style and play (he also doesn't feel coached for this reason). I also just at this point think the fact that he is Literally Always Posting even on his birthday points to him obsessing over the game townie style lol

[Prims]

22 minutes ago, Refa said:

Did you think they (Percy, Shinori) could have been faking the spat? It didn't read as faked to me from either end.

Is there a specific reason you ask me this question?

[Bluedoom]

10 hours ago, Refa said:

  

For me, I'm listing my thought process and the scum leans are worse than the town leans. Who is on your wagon? I remember Boron and Prims, at this point I trust Boron more than Prims.

No, it's that you've decided that it's scummy despite there being no reason that it is scummy. If Makaze was town, I'd look at my nullreads more. Rapier isn't based on Makaze being scum so I still feel fine about it.

-It's not him not voting, it's the reason he's not voting. He's not pushing who he feels bad about which is bothering me.

-I had the impression that Elie was a common suspect, are we reading the same thread? Like several people have said they felt bad about him.

-It's more the other way with Shinori. Because I feel good about Shinori, I don't feel bad about following their Rapier read.

-The other nullreads I listed were either because I had an actual read going on there that could change. Everyone else not listed I barely had a read on, so I didn't bother.

What about my reads feels disconnected? I've engaged with all of my scumreads so far.

I feel stronger about Makaze because they've been actively engaging more than I do Rapier.

That's easy, I'd look at the people who townread Rapier earlier on but ignored him later on in the game, or just people who have slept on a townread of him without updating it. Makaze I think I'd look at people who refused to engage with him, it seems like an easy pass for scum to do.

 

@charlie_ I don't get your thoughts on me. You've mentioned being iffy on me and would vote to consolidate me despite sharing scumreads with me and I don't feel like you've ever brought this up. What's going on there?

Hmmmm...on my wagon I'm not worried about BT, it feels like j00 flipped on her earlier read without really any progression? The only thing there is how my Rapier read seems stronger than my Makaze read, but otherwise doesn't really look into anything and just kind of goes with their previous reasoning. Not sure about Prims, I think I want more responses there today. I think Marth's progression on me has been fine, nothing about it has bothered me.

 

Dw Prims, I gotchu'.

Anyway, to preface, I'm going to summarise your page 18 reads list:

Town: Me,Boron.Snike,Weapons
Null:BBM, Shinori, Elieson
Scum: Makaze,Rapier, Cam

Missing from the list: Prims,SB, j00,BT,Percy

So here's my issue with this response. I think wrt  your townreads your scumreads don't read like proactive solving. There were enough interactions in the thread at that point in time that looking into the missing pool would've been a good line of inquiry. Idt that Prims and SB at least haven't had enough interactions with your townreads for you to get a feel of their alignment here at least, and I definitely think Shinori/BBM have posted more for them not to be just null here imo. BBM had a defence of me against Snike, isn't that a noteworthy action to look into towards a solve? Shinori outright ignored me vs Boron for a long time only to put it up as TvT, is that possibly TMI? I'd think you'd actually look into these things instead of putting them in the null pile because...you can't read him well? These are distinct actions that these two players have taken and I don't think they're harder to read than w/e cam and eli have been doing this game.

 

I'd give you a pass on j00 and BT because atp even I had a tough time getting a feel for their posts but Prims/SB at least have had distinctive stances that not having anything about them is worrying here.

Its why I'm fine with SB having a scumlean(or read?) on you despite sharing scumreads with you, because I think in a world where they think that me/j00/snike/weapons/prims are town and rapier/elie are scum, boron/you feel like pushes that make sense coming from their perspective. I suppose I should ask them how they feel about your interactions with Boron ED1 into the unvote, but I can see town!SB going with those lines of inquiry given their reads.

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Prims said:

Is there a specific reason you ask me this question?

Because it looked like that's what you were hinting at and it made no sense to me, I was wondering if you were seeing something that I wasn't.

1 minute ago, Bluedoom said:

So here's my issue with this response. I think wrt  your townreads your scumreads don't read like proactive solving. There were enough interactions in the thread at that point in time that looking into the missing pool would've been a good line of inquiry. Idt that Prims and SB at least haven't had enough interactions with your townreads for you to get a feel of their alignment here at least, and I definitely think Shinori/BBM have posted more for them not to be just null here imo. BBM had a defence of me against Snike, isn't that a noteworthy action to look into towards a solve? Shinori outright ignored me vs Boron for a long time only to put it up as TvT, is that possibly TMI? I'd think you'd actually look into these things instead of putting them in the null pile because...you can't read him well? These are distinct actions that these two players have taken and I don't think they're harder to read than w/e cam and eli have been doing this game.

I'd give you a pass on j00 and BT because atp even I had a tough time getting a feel for their posts but Prims/SB at least have had distinctive stances that not having anything about them is worrying here.

Its why I'm fine with SB having a scumlean(or read?) on you despite sharing scumreads with you, because I think in a world where they think that me/j00/snike/weapons/prims are town and rapier/elie are scum, boron/you feel like pushes that make sense coming from their perspective. I suppose I should ask them how they feel about your interactions with Boron ED1 into the unvote, but I can see town!SB going with those lines of inquiry given their reads.

I already read all of their content and didn't get a notable read out of it at the time. Shinori/BBM I had reads on but not strong enough feelings to put them as Town/Scum. No, I don't think his defense of you means anything. It's not something I think he can only do as one alignment. I never even noticed that from Shinori, so of course I wouldn't mention it lol. If Shinori scumread either of you, I think I'd be more bothered than if he says it's town/town. I would also not give a fuck about mentioning a town/town read unless one of them was under pressure.

I don't think SB having me as a scumlean and sharing reads on me is inherently problematic, but I think Town!SB would at least reflect on this and mention it in their read on me. The fact that it's ignored is the bigger issue here, and I don't get why SB would do that.

[Refa]

Basically it seems like you're viewing my nullreads as no opinions when the ones I posted at least are that I have opinions on the slot, but I don't think their actions are telling enough for me to put them in town/scum.

[Prims]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

Because it looked like that's what you were hinting at and it made no sense to me, I was wondering if you were seeing something that I wasn't.

Oh, no. I meant it as in I wasn't really agreeing with either one's take on the other.

[BBM]

having trouble remembering who was where so here are some unofficial votals because I don't trust the bot. i was too lazy to do the voting history thing but these votes are chronologically ordered. sorry the formatting sucks. @Iris can you please update from this for the rest of the day?

Votals

Refa (4): BT, j00, Bluedoom, Makaze

Rapier (3): charlie, BBM, Refa

WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): Rapier, CT075, Prims

Makaze (2): Elieson, Sunwoo

Bluedoom (1): Snike

Percivale (1): Shinori

Prims (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction

Not Voting (1): Percivale

[Bluedoom]

3 minutes ago, Refa said:

Basically it seems like you're viewing my nullreads as no opinions when the ones I posted at least are that I have opinions on the slot, but I don't think their actions are telling enough for me to put them in town/scum.

Its less that and more that townreading the wagonees at that time only to go into another consensus scumread looks bad and it feels weird that rapier is your strongest read there after makaze(I can buy makaze as a progression from your earlier reads) at that point in time. So the null/missing feel off when I think there are enough interactions for you to have a town/scum read there. Or really just a scum read actually, I don't care about the town reads.

 

 

[Bluedoom]

Like even now from what I'm seeing on one of your responses in page 25 you should be trying to solve for j00/prims at least since those are the people you feel unsure about on your wagon but that's just not happening?

[Prims]

I guess I wouldn't really be surprised if Shinori turned out to be scum later whereas Percy I would be sort of surprised, but I'm not 100% certain it's his town game yet. re: Shinori I think the idea that Percy pushed Weapons to start a wagon then backpedaled to vote the townies on that wagon is a mischaracterization because Percy was never at the crux of any Weapons push and in fact never even voted him. Like, Percy's Weapons suspicion was small and not that influential to game state since it was made while he was catching up.

Right, if there's anything Percy did for me to address it's this post because I did not vore (or vote) Makaze over his SK spec, I only pointed it out then voted him later for different reasons. This just seems like a NAI memory mistake but it is worth pointing out if it factors into his reads I guess?

[Prims]

And because that probably makes my Shinori read unclear, he's under "null but I got a slight tonal townread on him". I do not actually think he is likely scum.

[Refa]

4 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

Its less that and more that townreading the wagonees at that time only to go into another consensus scumread looks bad and it feels weird that rapier is your strongest read there after makaze(I can buy makaze as a progression from your earlier reads) at that point in time. So the null/missing feel off when I think there are enough interactions for you to have a town/scum read there. Or really just a scum read actually, I don't care about the town reads.

At the time of that post? Absolutely not. My BBM read has changed. For Shinori, I always have this feeling like he's not doing enough, but there's never been any content that I've been bothered by. I thought the Via interaction made him look better, if anything.

3 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

Like even now from what I'm seeing on one of your responses in page 25 you should be trying to solve for j00/prims at least since those are the people you feel unsure about on your wagon but that's just not happening?

I've been working on my j00 read which you'll be able to see. I liked her progression on me in particular, want to see more reads from this slot but I'm not bothered at this point.

My brother in Christ, you've gotta be high if you think I should be solving Prims based on his two posts at that point. 

[Bluedoom]

7 minutes ago, Refa said:

At the time of that post? Absolutely not. My BBM read has changed. For Shinori, I always have this feeling like he's not doing enough, but there's never been any content that I've been bothered by. I thought the Via interaction made him look better, if anything.

I've been working on my j00 read which you'll be able to see. I liked her progression on me in particular, want to see more reads from this slot but I'm not bothered at this point.

My brother in Christ, you've gotta be high if you think I should be solving Prims based on his two posts at that point. 

So you insist that the null reads were fine. hm.

Two posts? Wdym? Are you specifically talking about in relation to his vote on you? Because I was thinking more, read back on all of his posts in the game in general and see if there was anything off.

[Sunwoo]

I'm kinda following the thread, haven't reread Rapier yet (sorry Prims).

I did want to state that I don't think Marth and Refa's interactions look like scum/scum. It could be scum/town, or even town/town. But they don't feel like two people who know each other's alignment and are faking these interactions. Don't ask me which of the two is more likely to be scum though, I'd have to look into not only all of their interactions but all interactions with all people in the thread. And that's not something I can do right now. I'll get back to this before the end of D1.

[BBM]

i'm inclined to push weapons down my prio list a bit atm for switching from refa to prims. i don't see the motive for scum weapons to push prims right now when prims is not a realistic lynch target today. sure weapons isn't the #1 wagon anymore but he's still second and hardly out of danger. I'm feeling more confident about rapier > weapons

i still don't like makaze say the bit about me not pushing anyone, but i think the ensuing 180 on me feels a bit unnecessary from him as scum since people had sort of already come to terms with him tunneling me. also not on my prio list for today

@Prims how are you reading rapier atm? based on a quick ctrl+f of your iso I don't think you've really said much about him recently despite asking boron what she thinks about him, and a lot of your earlier thoughts about him were very neutral "wouldn't townread him but also wouldn't scumread him" sort of stuff

[Bluedoom]

I gtg for a bit but I'll get a response going at you boron when I'm back.

[Prims]

Just now, BBM said:

@Prims how are you reading rapier atm? based on a quick ctrl+f of your iso I don't think you've really said much about him recently despite asking boron what she thinks about him, and a lot of your earlier thoughts about him were very neutral "wouldn't townread him but also wouldn't scumread him" sort of stuff

He's still a neutral read and I've been lazy about reading him in-depth. I wouldn't feel too bad if he got lynched I think. At least he wouldn't have to be annoyed keeping up with the thread. This is a lame answer but while I have no real read on his content individually I feel like he makes sense as a buddy if Refa is scum

I forget, how are you reading Refa at this point, and are you comfortable with the wagon? FWIW I'm aware I haven't really been talking about Rapier and although I wasn't baiting this or anything it's really weird to me that Refa wasn't the one to ask me this question lol, to the point their first thought when I posted again with no read on Rapier was to ask me something totally unrelated, it reinforces my view of them as passive/docile scum who's just posting reads to get by

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

mental boomed more tomorrow

[Percivalé]

I'm home

before I attempt to catch up for real im noticing several people state they felt the post shinori voted me over was bad too, which I understand, but I said literally the same thing earlier in the game and no one had commented on it at the time, so I'm kinda confused what made it worse this time??

[Iris]

 Iris™ Votals: Day 1.5 (~18.5 hours left)

Refa (4): BT., j00, Bluedoom, Makaze
Rapier (3): charlie, BBM, Refa
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): Rapier, CT075, Prims
Makaze (2): Elieson, Sunwoo
Bluedoom (1): Snike
Percivale (1): Shinori
Prims (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Not Voting (1): Percivale
* Enough people have harassed me I've changed to chronological voting. 😒 Still manually counting votals throughout the rest of the day. You can see the full voting history below. DM me if there are any errors. I'm going back to bed.

The player with the most votes at the end of the Day phase will be Eliminated! With 16 alive, it takes 6 votes minimum to Eliminate a player and 10 votes to Hammer the phase early! Day 1 ends at 8:00 PM EDT on May 28th.

 

VOTING HISTORY - Day 1

Page 2:
Rapier votes for Prims
Snike votes for Rapier
Sunwoo votes for Snike
Shinori votes for Elieson
Prims votes for Snike
Refa votes for Makaze
Prims votes for Shinori

Page 3:
BBM votes for Makaze
Makaze votes for BBM

Page 4:
WeaponsofMassConstruction votes for Prims
Shinori votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction
Rapier votes for Makaze
Sunwoo votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 5:
Shinori votes for Elieson
Bluedoom votes for Refa
Rapier votes for BBM

Page 6:
WeaponsofMassConstruction votes for Sunwoo
Rapier votes for Bluedoom

Page 7:
Refa votes for Sunwoo
Bluedoom votes for Sunwoo
Sunwoo votes for Refa

Page 8:
BBM votes for Prims

Page 9:
Makaze votes for Bluedoom
Shinori votes for Prims

Page 10:
Snike votes for Bluedoom
charlie votes for Shinori
Prims votes for Snike
BBM votes for Snike
Shinori votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 11:
Percivale votes for Bluedoom
j00 votes for Refa

Page 12:
Elieson votes for Makaze

Page 13:

Sunwoo votes for Makaze
Bluedoom unvotes

Page 14:
charlie votes for Rapier

Page 15:
BT. votes for Refa
j00 votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 16:
WeaponsofMassConstruction votes Rapier
Prims votes Makaze

Page 17:
BBM votes WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 18:
Bluedoom votes charlie
Refa votes Makaze

Page 19:
WeaponsofMassConstruction votes Elieson
Prims votes for Refa

Page 20:
j00 votes for Refa
Percivale unvotes

Page 21:
Bluedoom votes for Refa

Page 22:
Rapier votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction
Shinori votes for Percivale
CT075 votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 23:
Refa unvotes

Page 24:
Makaze votes for Refa
WeaponsofMassConstruction votes for Prims
Prims votes for WeaponsofMassConstruction

Page 25:
Refa votes for Rapier