Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[DefyingFates]

23 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

- I get new town pings from Aster and in retrospect I didn't really get them from DefyingFates. Not that I think they're scummy and I'm willing to give the new players a pass D1 anyway, but it's something that pinged me. @DefyingFates why the Percy vote?

I figured starting with "I'm glad I'm town!" was very suspicious, that's all 😛

21 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

One thing that seemed off to me was how early it was that Defying came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be voting today which I think is what you're bringing attention to? If we had stayed at similar thread activity and Defying had said that near EoD, that would be townier, but so early is eh. 

I've never played manual Werewolf/ Mafia before. In the versions I've played (e.g. Town of Salem), the first day is usually just for introductions so I was surprised that people were already voting for each other's heads.

(Also, there weren't many people around during the first real day so I figured it'd be enough to check in here periodically. In hindsight that was just because the game started early and wow did taking time off not do me any favors. Really sorry for that!)

I'll just post this now and continue backreading. It's a good thing this thread doesn't have double posting rules...

 

[Bartozio]

Allright, caught my train. For reference, I'll be posting from my phone for the rest of the day, so don't expect any elaborate posts from me.

As for wagons, I'd go Eury over Blue in a pinch, but I'd prefer other people.

Jamie's response explains the issue I had well enough I guess, but it doesn't change him being pretty passive. I'm fine lynching there, or J00 or weapons. 

[DefyingFates]

8 hours ago, Elieson said:

Current Name - Previous/Older Name:

Bluedoom - Marth

Percivale - August (and possibly Levity in case someone down the line opts to use that much older one or quotes meta from some very old game or something, with an actual quote)

Sunwoo - Boron

CT075 - Cam (and even older, CamTech)

Thank you!

7 hours ago, j00 said:

I know Eury's posts are looooooooooong, but do you think her suspicion towards you feel genuine, or manufactured?

I'll have to parse it in more detail, but I think the main suspicions on me are due to voting early on and being inactive, which are fair complaints. I explained the latter earlier and a few people have mentioned my vote was because I was told voting was better than not so I picked someone who seemed suspicious and wanted to take things from there.

P.S. What does RVS mean? Clearly I need to go through those helper threads again when I get the time.

[Bartozio]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Thank you!

I'll have to parse it in more detail, but I think the main suspicions on me are due to voting early on and being inactive, which are fair complaints. I explained the latter earlier and a few people have mentioned my vote was because I was told voting was better than not so I picked someone who seemed suspicious and wanted to take things from there.

P.S. What does RVS mean? Clearly I need to go through those helper threads again when I get the time.

Rvs means random voting stage. It's at the start of the game where everyone just throws out joke posts

[Bartozio]

Joke votes*

[DefyingFates]

Gotcha, thanks!

##Unvote: @Percivalé

##Vote: @Bluedoom

Admittedly just jumping on a bandwagon here and really hoping I didn't get someone important killed.

[JamieIsBored]

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

So if I'm understanding the notion of why the vote of DF was made, it is based on their actions not matching what was.... seen from other newer players in other games before? Like an odd-meta read of sorts?

Yeah pretty much.

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Do we stand to gain more by lynching inactives vs. those who have been posting this current day phase? What determines whether we stand to gain more or lose more by doing so in D1?

Honestly just information we have on people. This game hasn't exactly been fluffy so I think maybe pushing for someone who has been posting could work.

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Activity/reads aside, is assisting a newbie a considerable portion of the town read on his slot? If so, would scum!nori not be capable of doing the same thing?

Not really, it was just supposed to be a summary of what I'd seen from all players then I changed it to a reads list and didn't remove that bit.

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Can you explain the Percivale "vibes"? (Meta? Something else?)

I can't really explain just a gut feeling for now.

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Weapons- does being honest trump over content, reads, etc. when it comes to getting town/scum vibes? Is there something in particular with the "honesty" that pushes it more town vs. scum?

Not really, just the honest felt good to me. Again mainly gut reads.

7 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Can I ask what exactly you mean by the Elieson "spat" and being wary of it? I don't understand the "being some way to distance but idk" -- Who exactly am I "distancing from" in this instance? (From what I can see/tell, I didn't distance from my vote commitment on DF, which actually got me flak from CT earlier for "vote sitting". And I don't know what association you're speaking of regarding distancing.) Mind elaborating?

I'm wary of you and Elieson being teammates, when he said he was forcing the push it pinged me the wrong way.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I thought about a Eury/Elie scumteam too, but it’s just such a low EV play that I don’t think it’s worth worrying about.

[Shinori]

1 hour ago, Bartozio said:

Hi guys, back for now.

I was expecting to have to claim nog, but guess wagons moved elsewhere. I'm not really huge on either a blue or eury lynch though. @Grace if you're somehow still up, can I tempt you into going back to nori?

##vote @Shinori

THIS IS EW.

[Shinori]

49 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Allright, caught my train. For reference, I'll be posting from my phone for the rest of the day, so don't expect any elaborate posts from me.

As for wagons, I'd go Eury over Blue in a pinch, but I'd prefer other people.

Jamie's response explains the issue I had well enough I guess, but it doesn't change him being pretty passive. I'm fine lynching there, or J00 or weapons. 

Bart and blue are hard defending each other since like page 2 or 3 and this is giving me sketch vibes.

[j00]

post some reads and vote, Shinori, you can stop the sideline observation thing now

[Shinori]

6 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

I'm going to sidestep you thinking that me picking on a townread is scummy for a sec(although honestly my problem with you is the same here) because I have other points to address in this post.

Why is bart scummy exactly? What's scummy about a reads list in page 5 of the game when nothing is really happening? Dude is at least pushing jamie  which is more than what half the pl is doing. Why is Elie scummy for pushing a case on eury, and what would you expect town!Elie or town!Bart to do? 

This post feels like you're picking on people who tried to do something in RVS; do you think its scum MO to try and push a case grasping at straws during RVS?

My read on bart hasn't really evolved since earlier in the day phase because they haven't done much.  I don't like a full reads list so early in the game when there isn't that much content because it feels:
A: Partially forced
B: Doesn't have much bearing as the day progresses normally.  There just isn't enough content to reliably have a read on EVERYONE to warrant a reads post.

They are pushing Jamie and I believe I commented on that.

Elie is scummy for the case they were pushing on eury because it felt FORCED.  I commented on this and used those exact words.  It FELT fake it looked like a case that someone was FORCING themselves to make, AKA, a scum who is picking someone and ATTEMPTING to push a case there.  The alternative is they are town and are forcing a case they don't believe in just to warrant interactions.  Elie THEMSELVES stated that it was in fact INITIALLY forced so my feeling was correct on that, and I'm not a fan of it.

I would expect elie to not have to FORCE a case on someone.  And im not gonna answer the Bart thing because Idk what I would expect.  My reasonings for kind of sussing bart are based more in the fact that their early posts kind of seemed weird to me as we were leaving RVS and I wasn't a fan of their list post.  I've seen scum make list posts when they are struggling to find a spot in thread and that's what it kind of felt like.

Elie/Eury debacle is clearly NOT an RVS thing so that's definitely not "picking on someone for trying to do stuff in RVS".  My read on bart is more on them NOT really doing things in RVS.  

This entire post is filled with stuff that is designed to kind of shade me in a bad light artificially and it's wack.  Grasping at straws in RVS is kind of normal and I even comment on this earlier in this day phase. SPECIFICALLY, in my post targeting YOU.

MY IMAGINARY VOTE STILL STANDS ON MARTH.

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, j00 said:

post some reads and vote, Shinori, you can stop the sideline observation thing now

I've posted reads J00.  Go read my other posts.  And quite literally the two posts BEFORE your comment were me stating things that pinged me. Things that I don't like.  Things that matter to my reads if you had read my previous posts which included reads.

[Shinori]

3 hours ago, BBM said:

Mod Votals 1.4
 

Bluedoom (5-BASICALLY 6): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins, Defying fates, SHINORI IMAGINARY VOTE
Eurykins (3): Elieson, CT075, Grace
Shinori (2): Bluedoom, Bartozio
DefyingFates (1): JamieIsBored
Bartozio (1): Sunwoo
Not Voting: Shinori, Aster

Phase ends in approximately 8 hours and 56 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 17th. As a reminder, it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 8 to hammer.

MY votals.

[Shinori]

In actuality marth is at L-3, 5 hours to phase end.

[Elieson]

12 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Bart and blue are hard defending each other since like page 2 or 3 and this is giving me sketch vibes.

In what world do you see mafia vets, being same aligned, and also hard-defending each other?

53 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said:

I'm wary of you and Elieson being teammates, when he said he was forcing the push it pinged me the wrong way.

To clarify to you and also Shinori who brought it up; what I saw from Eury raised concern, so I went in on the scumread aggressively, with the expectation that it would generate reactions from Eury and also garner reactions from others who see what I see. If Eury and I were teammates bussing each other, I assure you, our walls would be twice as long, each, and you'd regret joining this game because of it. I really never even considered that other people could see Eury and I in-fighting as being an associative read of sorts. I really can't find fault in you bringing it up. Neat.

5 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Elie is scummy for the case they were pushing on eury because it felt FORCED.  I commented on this and used those exact words.  It FELT fake it looked like a case that someone was FORCING themselves to make, AKA, a scum who is picking someone and ATTEMPTING to push a case there.  The alternative is they are town and are forcing a case they don't believe in just to warrant interactions.  Elie THEMSELVES stated that it was in fact INITIALLY forced so my feeling was correct on that, and I'm not a fan of it.

My Eury cases themselves aren't forced. The amount of effort I put into it was more than what I would have normally done on a D1 scumread. That is what's forced, as in, I forced myself to post more and read deeper into what she said / didn't say despite knowing that it's sort of an unorthodox D1 death-tunnel on what nobody else had called out. I also wanted some reactions, and boy howdy, I sure got some, so dislike it all you want; I still have a scumread, and it looks like you've got one too out of this. Progression, at my own expense, is whatever.

Also I still 100% believe in what I said. Her most recent mega-wall does some to alleviate my concern, and I'm about to read through it more now to see if it changes my opinion on her.

[Shinori]

1 minute ago, Elieson said:

In what world do you see mafia vets, being same aligned, and also hard-defending each other?

A world where they just chose to do it, if they make it look like they just town read each other and are buddies in a multi-ball game, it's a gamble based on them not flipping but could work out well.

I don't think it's bad to hard defend a buddy potentially either, the specific part about it that pings me is that it came SUPER early and didn't really seem that artificial.

And I don't think bart is entirely hard defending bluedoom, I need to recheck their list of reads to verify that.

[Eurykins]

6 hours ago, Percivalé said:

I don't blame you cuz I tend to change my name a lot, but if it helps I've gone by bizz, quote, levity, august, and via/viata

That actually makes so much sense now when I'm re-reading over your post. It has been too long!

3 hours ago, Grace said:

like i get it. i'm inactive, but also the fact no reason was specified feels off. the only other person who's even remotely mentioned a lynch on me is weapons, but specifically for inactivity. something dun feel right, would probably vote if we weren't in consolidation mode Soon(tm)

-

i'm not quoting any of the eury/elie posts (save me) but i actually think their collective interactions with each other are incredibly weird tonally. it's hard to explain but despite elie saying his initial case was forced, the way those two interacted even after (and all of eury's followups to related topics) felt overblown. severely. i do not know how to read that in terms of anything right now, but i know i don't like it in any case

-

i have no idea what to think of shinori's chicanery around voting tbh. like he's still been here but i can't pin whether it's trying to mess with alignment reads or whether it's a legitimate role restriction piece of work. i don't particularly feel like we're going to get any good answers today, and something still feels off there. will have a good ol think N1 about it

-
just looking at the current votals (sniped as of writing), and given i don't think a shinori wagon is happening today (since i'm moving my vote), it's currently just blue/eury. and honestly i can't really get enough brainpower to actually get proper reads on either atm, so unfortunately i might just resort to the kinda shit "balance the wagons vote" before i head off to sleep for the night (now). as above i'm not exactly reading eury tonally well to begin with so it's better than nothing? apologies for my shit D1, i love being sick
(as for aforementioned role mentioning stuff a few posts back; gonna refrain from doing that)

##Unvote: @Shinori
##Vote: @Eurykins

Bolded: Who were you stating you would "Probably vote", due to the mention of inactivity (and no other reason) to vote/case you? (When I read the quote, I didn't see a name, so was not sure who the comment originally came from).

Okay, I NEED TO ASK because I'm actually so confused: people keep stating MY reaction was "Overblown" or such with the FORCED ELIE POSTS (Keep in mind that he DID CONFIRM HIMSELF THAT IT WAS FORCED. This is not something that was just purely speculated.) What I did was respond to his multiple questions/"points" anytime he asked and provided context/references to clarify my stance. The fact that he somehow claims to NOT UNDERSTAND or process the information, but continued to ask multiple times (to which I responded by reiterating my point to assist him in trying to clear his confusion) = This is MY fault for responding to him? Like as a side note (saw this comment a moment ago while checking the thread):

1 hour ago, JamieIsBored said:

I'm wary of you and Elieson being teammates, when he said he was forcing the push it pinged me the wrong way.

PLEASE CLARIFY SOMETHING FOR ME: Multiple people have stated that the Elie/Eury interaction felt forced/weird. Elieson then CONFIRMED that it was, to some degree, FORCED (confirming Shinori's and other's questions and concerns). It pinged people the wrong way. YET I'M THE ONE BEING MARKED AS SUSSY for the interaction, when I had NOTHING to do with the FORCED interaction that occurred? (I did not start it in the sense of egging him on, I only responded to his responses that he continued to force upon me, because as a player, I find that answering questions and being willing to clarify makes a lot more sense than ignoring questions and acting like they never happened?)

Call me stupid, but you're basically blaming me (reading ME as scum), the person who was targeted by the sussy action/posts, when it was him forcing the interaction onto me? Is there nothing that seems odd regarding this situation at ALL? What would have been considered the "appropriate" response to someone being forcefully cased, with little to no basis, outside of responding to them in the hopes that whatever ?'s they had would be clarified?

SIDE NOTE: I never once Voted Elieson for it, but I did voice the fact that his entire "Forced interaction" and everything else (I will say, he's said little else for most others from what I recall outside of the tunnel on me) felt super off to me. I am legitimately CONFUSED by his interactions, which I explained earlier and I don't see things either as OMGUS because I didn't even react in that fashion to Elie. I don't necessarily see this as being purely scum!Elie intentions (Tbh, I feel like he's just barking up the wrong tree at the first thing he could attempt to bark at, which doesn't give me purely scum or town vibes exclusively), which is why there is no interest in pursuing him at this time, but I'm absolutely baffled by the wild logic that came from an action HE forcibly took, not me.

>> Side note 2: I fully get people being wary of a forced interaction like this, and what it could mean in coming day phases in terms of interactions/associations. And I agree- any direct exchanges or posts with banter, responses, etc. are good to keep an eye on, especially once flips happen. 100%.

I don't fully get the vote from Grace though, and would like an explanation moreso for it. Am I a consolidation? I'm not understanding the justification of the vote itself, or any casing around it.

[Elieson]

omg reading through Eury's first wallpost was fine, but her 2nd one has me totally losing focus. Gonna brew a cup of coffee, then come back.

Current thoughts so far, about 1/2 thru her 2nd wallpost:

------------

Notes on Eury, regarding her "Page 3+ stuff" that isn't related to me:

Analysing Sunwoo's vote, says it's fine.

Notes Bluedoom's admittedly decent scumread on Weapons, but also disagrees with the vote on Weapons.

Says Newb!Aster is fine, and doubles down on Newb!Fates concerns.

Says j00 is fine. Decent follow-up questioning. I like this because it screams "what's your thought process", implying that Eury's now reading the thread more actively.

Says Bartozio vote is bad, but his responses are "good enough". I guess this is generally a positive in your Bartozio read?

Lots of questioning to Bart, Shinori. Bart votes Jamie, which actually strikes a chord with me. Not Eury though. Hmm.

---

Stuff directly asked of me:

> Outside of what was posted above: What put Percivale on the "I would protest votes made against" list?

Vibes and verbiage, mostly. Good callout; I really don't have an actual case of refusing to vote for them, I just don't feel like voting them will either hit a target nor accomplish much in terms of advancement.

"Fun Fact, I was."
> Say What now?

Read my post to Shinori; I deathtunneled harder than I normally would've because I wanted to push your play (aka, you being a scumread) harder than I probably would've normally pushed something D1 and w/o information. I don't regret it ~~that much... now I have these Eurywalls to read lol~~

Also, to share; one thing is that Jamie has played a bunch on Bulbagarden, and I'm active enough over there; we can both agree and share that Bulba is notorious for featuring D1 No-Voters, as well as stupid shit like votable hosts and/or non-players. They tend to be from more meek players or more inexperienced players.

-----

I feel like Eury's done enough to invalidate/grow out of my initial concern on her (that being, a series of fluffy posts with noncommittal stances, and wishy washy words).

##Unvote @Eurykins 

 

Not sure where I'll flip out a vote yet, but I could see myself voting for Bartozio here, mostly because I disagree with his Jamie vote. I gotta finish this coffee, then this second Eury wall, then I'm off to do an actual Bartozio analysis.

[Elieson]

I just saw Eury's post and felt like I should share this before going back to the grindstone for another <insert many minutes here> amount of time.

I also just wanna say that the implication of things that people say/do when defined as Forced, being equivalent to Faked, is a bold assumption to make. I define them differently, and hope that you do too.

@Eurykins this is mostly out to you directly, but @Shinori and @JamieIsBored this is also to you two.

[Eurykins]

2 minutes ago, Elieson said:

I just saw Eury's post and felt like I should share this before going back to the grindstone for another <insert many minutes here> amount of time.

I also just wanna say that the implication of things that people say/do when defined as Forced, being equivalent to Faked, is a bold assumption to make. I define them differently, and hope that you do too.

@Eurykins this is mostly out to you directly, but @Shinori and @JamieIsBored this is also to you two.

I don't believe that I ever stated the posts as being FAKED, as FORCED to me is more like hyper tunneling or grasping at very short straws, if that makes sense? I also didn't know if the confusion was part of the ploy or was fully legitimate as well.

[BBM]

Mod Votals 1.5
 

Bluedoom (5): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins, DefyingFates (L-3!)
Eurykins (2): CT075, Grace
Shinori (2): Bluedoom, Bartozio
DefyingFates (1): JamieIsBored
Bartozio (1): Sunwoo
Not Voting: Shinori, Aster, Elieson

Phase ends in approximately 3 hours and 53 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 17th. As a reminder, it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 8 to hammer.

[Eurykins]

2 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Hi guys, back for now.

I was expecting to have to claim nog, but guess wagons moved elsewhere. I'm not really huge on either a blue or eury lynch though. @Grace if you're somehow still up, can I tempt you into going back to nori?

##vote @Shinori

2 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Allright, caught my train. For reference, I'll be posting from my phone for the rest of the day, so don't expect any elaborate posts from me.

As for wagons, I'd go Eury over Blue in a pinch, but I'd prefer other people.

Jamie's response explains the issue I had well enough I guess, but it doesn't change him being pretty passive. I'm fine lynching there, or J00 or weapons. 

Can you elaborate on Shinori vote here? Also, it sounded a little weird from first to second regarding Me/Bluedoom, since you went from "not fond of" in the first one for either lynch, to shelving me in front of Bluedoom as... consolation? But then you mentioned Jamie/j00/weapons, which makes me question where your lynch priorities are? Are they above or below myself/Bluedoom? And why?

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I figured starting with "I'm glad I'm town!" was very suspicious, that's all 😛

I've never played manual Werewolf/ Mafia before. In the versions I've played (e.g. Town of Salem), the first day is usually just for introductions so I was surprised that people were already voting for each other's heads.

(Also, there weren't many people around during the first real day so I figured it'd be enough to check in here periodically. In hindsight that was just because the game started early and wow did taking time off not do me any favors. Really sorry for that!)

I'll just post this now and continue backreading. It's a good thing this thread doesn't have double posting rules...

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Gotcha, thanks!

##Unvote: @Percivalé

##Vote: @Bluedoom

Admittedly just jumping on a bandwagon here and really hoping I didn't get someone important killed.

This vote on Bluedoom feels bad, because the two posts above did little to provide any context or reason behind it, and the only thing I saw was a post in reaction to my content thus far.

[Eurykins]

*Admitting that it's just jumping on a bandwagon does not make it not bad/lazy voting. And for being so concerned about not wanting to Lynch on D1, and wanting to wait for more content (which to me implied that they wanted to wait until meaningful content was present to VALIDATE lynching someone D1- correct me if I'm wrong here) before voting, yet doing this? Seems very contradictory to me.

[JamieIsBored]

48 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Call me stupid, but you're basically blaming me (reading ME as scum), the person who was targeted by the sussy action/posts, when it was him forcing the interaction onto me? Is there nothing that seems odd regarding this situation at ALL? What would have been considered the "appropriate" response to someone being forcefully cased, with little to no basis, outside of responding to them in the hopes that whatever ?'s they had would be clarified?

I don't think you're scum, just being wary of the possibility of this being distancing. I was leaning you null initially but I'm liking your slot more and more. Don't want a lynch on you today for now.