Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[Eurykins]

PAGE 6 AHOY!

8 hours ago, Elieson said:

Fun fact.

I was.

...Say what now?

7 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

Sure! 
I picked up DefyingFates' not responding to anything game related and looked over their slot again. I wanted to look over the start of the game a bit more with the interaction with Shinori and him, while intially I thought it was towny (mainly because I've had a couple games recently where newb!town have also announced they were going to refrain from voting), I went back over it and realised they were different circumstances to what I'd seen before. With DefyingFates' post being like one of the first posts of the thread, it's quite different from what I've seen where these newb!town would pop in around EoD because they weren't confident with reads. Then as has been said a few times, it becomes more anti-commital than newb!town.   

So if I'm understanding the notion of why the vote of DF was made, it is based on their actions not matching what was.... seen from other newer players in other games before? Like an odd-meta read of sorts? @JamieIsBored

7 hours ago, Shinori said:

I shouldn't be read as town for helping a newer player understand the most basic levels of mafia.

^ Basically what I stated a while ago. It can be done by anyone with any alliance/position, not just town!nori. I also know that a lot of people generally give more leeway, tips, and advice while playing the game for the first times- it's just how the players operate to better allow others to learn the game.
SIDE NOTE: The fact that Shinori, at this point, has questioned multiple times to multiple players "Why am I a town read?" is something that mildly gives him brownie points at this stage. Simple reason as to why: I don't think scum would constantly require justification for people reading them in good light, or questioning the logic/basis for their reads, and may more often coast with "Hey, I'm getting clears/in good vibes with peeps," and not question it openly for others to debate. I'm not saying for certain he's a hard town read FOR THIS REASON, but it does offer better vibes rather than worse at this point.

7 hours ago, j00 said:

Still catching up, but yeah I admit that this is largely part of the reason I voted Bart. The game had been going on for what, 20 hours and we were still sorta in RVS, with almost no real posts other than number spec. Bart and Marth were the ones that caught my attention/I wanted to prod, and deliberately starting a wagon just to get out of RVS is at least a try to get the game going.
I don't care if people take issue with the vote because yes, it wasn't a good case. I called out Marth for having flimsy arguments while admitting there was nothing to base proper reads of, and placed a vote with little justification myself. At the time everyone was grasping at straws so any serious attempt at scumreading was mainly based on tone and vibes. Feel free to case me if you're bothered by my posts, this has still been a slow D1 where many has yet to form or state proper opinions.

I'm currently null on Bart, I think Marth is worse. His follow up posts has been defensive responses and he's not really following up on his Weapons suspicion nor offering any further reads. And I still think his argument about Weapons townreading Shinori is an odd hangup because while yes, everyone can scumhunt in multiball, the scum factions would still prefer to start off with mislynching town since things will swing hard early otherwise. It's not a huge gain to announce town reads early.

That said, I've only skimmed the thread and am at page 4, and still haven't read any Elie and Eury posts...... so I will unvote for now while catching up properly. 

 ##Unvote: @Bartozio

I don't disagree with the bolded section above, and acknowledging having a weak case or that it wasn't a GOOD ONE (and then offering themselves for any cases for prior posts) reads oddly in a similar light as the Shinori questioning town reads on himself. Nothing super indicative, but I feel like scum more often become prone to ignoring or justifying poor cases, rather than welcoming more input/insight or casing on themselves. 

7 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I feel like I have more town reads than scum reads right now, so I've been kinda struggling on how I should proceed. I feel slightly better about Bartozio, but not enough for me to move my vote off him. He has given reads, yes, but I don't like how he had to be prompted by Weapons and then me to give his thoughts on the game. His one post before Weapons asked him for thoughts on his wagon was ... a little weak? He asked Marth a question and but didn't really take a stance on any of what he commented it.

I don't really know what to think about Marth. I guess it's fine for a catch-up "I just got prodded" post, but I really have no idea how to read him.

Realtalk, I feel like the fact that several people are silent/haven't posted in a while is really fucking with my reads ;_;

So despite the improvement, Bartozio remains as the most prominent concern at this time? 
Several others, like j00, have commented their speculations with Bluedoom's posts- do those hold any concern for the people who are currently voting him? (Is the prodding for activity levels justification for what has been posted as of thus far?) @Sunwoo

Heavy agree that inactives for a longer D1 doesn't help the game nor the ability to gauge the other players.

6 hours ago, j00 said:

Eh, the Elie & Eury feud feels it's based on a lot of nitpicking on wording and arguments. I don't agree with all the arguments but I'm not leaning scum on either right now.

I'm not sure what to make of Bart's Jamie vote. @JamieIsBored is apparently an experienced player from another site, but I haven't played with him before and there seem to be some cultural differences in playstyle, eg. lynching inactives D1? I'd like to hear more reads from you. Who do you want to lynch today? If this was your homesite, would you go for an inactive? How do you come to an consensus about which inactive player to lynch? etc.

Well I guess I still feel worse about Bart and Marth. I could shift the wagon from Bart to Marth but idk if that changes the game state much, and I admit I don't have very strong feelings about any reads right now. 

Would like for Cam, Grace, Aster and DefyingFates to catch up. 

##Vote: @Bluedoom

Can't disagree with the constant back and forth with Elie- was there anything in either of our reads or conversation that caught any attention, or was it lost in the noise of it all?
So Bart/Marth are equivalent at this point regarding reads/impressions? Is there something you're awaiting from either slot that would change the priority/reads on those two? @j00

5 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

Yeah, we do quite often. 

Eh, we still have time. We lynch inactives when we have nothing which normally means the wagon forms late D1. 

Normally when we're 4-5ish hours from phase end and we have nothing, we shoot for anyone who hasn't turned up (which was a big problem for a while). It's normally just someone will then pick an inactive and a wagon forms. 

I'll lump these two together. A lot of the reads I've seen so far are more meta, I've played with Elieson a couple times and I was scumbuds with Shinori for a day in Champs so not much on that account. 

Thoughts atm:
Shinori - Leaning town (Helped Fates early on, activity prods, reads are pretty solid)
Percivalé - Town Reading (I like the vibes)
Weapons - Leaning town (I like how honest they are lol, 95 was good)
Elieson - Town Reading (Mindmeld initially on Fates, I agree with his Percivalé read, actively trying to promote discussion with his Eurykins push, would be lock if he posted one of his dinosaur comics)
Bluedoom - Scum lean (Very contradictory when they first started posting, only public read being a meta read)
Sunwoo - Town lean (Vibes again, being quick to give out reads is also a towntell imo)
j00 - Town lean (Moved discussion forward a lot, liked how you followed up on wanting to move past RVS by starting a wagon)
Eurykins - Null (I agreed with their Fates points, wary of spat with Elieson being some way to distance but idk)
Fates - Scum lean (On reflection, post feels kinda coachy, as I said before way too early for them to bring up not voting, also lack of game contribution)
Bartozio - Null (Initial wagon was unwarranted, reads are alright, just nothing jumping out as town for me) 

And for who would I lynch, anyone in italics or not on the list. 

Question about the bolded (as this is due to experience in another forum/elsewhere?): Do we stand to gain more by lynching inactives vs. those who have been posting this current day phase? What determines whether we stand to gain more or lose more by doing so in D1? 

Also, regarding the the reads:
1. Shinori: Activity/reads aside, is assisting a newbie a considerable portion of the town read on his slot? If so, would scum!nori not be capable of doing the same thing?

2. Can you explain the Percivale "vibes"? (Meta? Something else?)

3. Weapons- does being honest trump over content, reads, etc. when it comes to getting town/scum vibes? Is there something in particular with the "honesty" that pushes it more town vs. scum?

4. Can I ask what exactly you mean by the Elieson "spat" and being wary of it? I don't understand the "being some way to distance but idk" -- Who exactly am I "distancing from" in this instance? (From what I can see/tell, I didn't distance from my vote commitment on DF, which actually got me flak from CT earlier for "vote sitting". And I don't know what association you're speaking of regarding distancing.) Mind elaborating? @JamieIsBored

5 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

When is phase end?

I’m down to lynch among inactives/less actives. Multiball means associatives aren’t going to be that helpful and the state of the thread really suggests maf are lurky/passive. Cam/Grace are the obvious picks there, but I feel like Marth/j00 are too, the difference pretty much being that I pinged the latter two. j00 is definitely not playing the same as last game and feels self-conscious - @j00 what’s up with that, can you explain. Still willing to give Aster/Fates a pass.

If we were to have a pool of inactives/"less actives", what would be the basis of who would be lynched? Also, in terms of raw numbers, we're more likely to mislynch in this instance, with it being 10-2-2? And if that's something you're willing to support/push, who specifically of the 4 mentioned (and/or anyone else of the game roster) would you commit to and why? (Is this moreso coming from the mention from Jamie of doing so in other forum Mafia games? Or moreso being noted because D1 has been fairly slow in general?) Also, what is the difference of the inactives/less actives vs inactive newbies getting passes like Aster or DF? Why keep inexperienced inactives around vs experienced players? @WeaponsofMassConstruction

4 hours ago, CT075 said:

more thoughts

- numbers spec is super cheap talk and I sort of dislike how long it went on for

- grace's post on the noobs is a towntell, it'd be pretty easy to say nothing and move on but sticking your neck out over it doesn't seem scum-motivated. that said, i find the logic itself a little suspect -- "they could have been coached to make a noob mistake (and then to immediately back off) for town cred" feels like such a conspiracy theory justification; this read is more a gut read based on the timing of it all.

- want to hear more from @WeaponsofMassConstruction on why multiball scum has less reason to townread people, and particularly how it relates to Shinori? I have my own thoughts on the matter but I want to hear it from the horse's mouth

- Elie's comment on RAT/BAT being opposed seems like a reasonable internal assumption to make but idk, I feel like acting based on any assumptions on how the factions interact on D1 is counterproductive. We don't know anything about the relative sizes/powers of the teams, whether they have the same wincons, or so on, and especially on D1 we won't have associatives anyway so like, may as well treat today as a non-multiball game and just try to Find The Bad Guy (singular). Speculating about so and so's actions in multiball is a waste of time without more information on how the setup functions.

- I'm not a huge fan of Eury sticking it so hard to DefyingFates over like three posts. Am I missing something? When proofreading this post I found out that I did legitimately miss DF voting for Percy but I still think this is a weirdly hardline stance to take for, in order, making a comment about not voting/preferring no lynch during RVS, empty voting in response to being told no lynch is a bad idea, then making a mostly empty comment in response to Aster asking for a summary. This is not even about defending noobs, surely something else has happened in the game that's worth committing to rather than post walls and walls about why a three post wonder needs to be pressured so much.

got to mid page 5, will read the rest shortly

##vote: @Eurykins

1. I can agree with the Number spec notion, which is why I kinda glazed over it. 

2. Is Grace's post (mentioning a towntell, but then stating that the logic was iffy) - Is this good or bad? Scum/town read overall? I'm not sure what the end result was of the post, and the vibe check it had in the end for you.

3. Several notes regarding DF vote:
A. As explained earlier several times, it was no different than pressure votes to garner responses and I even posted questions seeking answers from the slot.

B. Posted the empty posts DF had, and then EVEN WHEN QUESTIONS WERE DIRECTED TO DF, they posted nothing in response and then went AWOL. Ignoring questions/inquiries, with pressure votes applied to support them, is not something that generally reads well when something is already amiss with the slot.

C. Nothing had changed from this slot to justify me moving my vote off of said slot. Funny enough, multiple others in this exact game thread have done the exact same thing (no change in opinion from the slot in concern, thus their votes never moved off of them), and yet it's being nitpicked for wanting to get an actual response from said slot before the vote was moved. At what point does a pressure vote, when NO INFORMATION IS GARNERED AS OF YET, is required to be moved off of a slot that is FAILING TO RESPOND TO ANY INQUIRY THUS FAR?

D. At this point, with the Prod, I don't know if DF slot will be posting or responding again by the end End of Day phase happens. If not, my vote will be consolidated elsewhere since the majority of the thread/players are giving newbies D1 freebie pass, which I'll agree to disagree with but understand that it will NOT help the voting consideration at all. 

I do not understand how this qualifies or reads as any form of scum attempt though, when in all reality: DF wagon will NEVER happen this day phase, and I made it CRYSTAL CLEAR of the intention and reason behind my post. It wasn't LOLOLOL newbie targeting that bothered me, but the blatant ignoring of other player's posts, responses, and inquiries that makes me NOT want to have them around any longer than necessary in terms of townsided goals if the inactivity continues.

4 hours ago, CT075 said:

Will add that I think Elie's fight with Eury is hard to read but Eury's double down is mainly the thing that stands out to me. This is a ton of text about why we shouldn't give the noobs a pass, which is a fine and good statement in a vacuum, but this is way too much text about Three Posts considering that other things have been going on.

Also noting the above bolded: I was responding to Elie during a working day (during break/Lunch) and was directly responding to his concerns, which happened to literally be ABOUT that concern. Reads/information on other players, as stated afterwards, were promised after the banter occurred. None of the responding posts to Elie's points/concerns were ever intended TO have content of the other players, because at that time I had limited time to complete the responses to his concerns.

4 hours ago, CT075 said:

i am also opposed to inactive lynches on principle (totally not just because i'm a habitual lurker myself) because it doesn't meaningfully advance the game state beyond the literal act of flipping that person; we get basically no associatives (it's so easy to start or hop on an inactive wagon as any alignment) and there isn't even anything to say about it beyond "yeah inactive lul" so it makes the end-of-day scramble totally contentless as well

I actually agree with this notion.

3 hours ago, Shinori said:

If your reasoning for wanting to vote Eury is because she 'doubled down' on a scum read when that scum read is a newer player I'm confused.

Some people just haven't posted a lot and i don't think that it's bad persay to go after a less active person and some of DF's posts were weird.

I felt she also posted a bit about other people but maybe i just misconstrued other things as information.  Will go back and reread her posts again.  I do think eury as scum wouldn't just come in and then vote sit on the new person realistically and there seems to be some OOMPH in her posts which feel more townie vibe checked than scum.

I can agree with this part and would rather not lynch an incative today unless there just weren't better options.  However I think inactives are perfectly on the menu day 2.  And if I get the feeling their inactivity is more based on scum-sided agenda, then they can go on the block day 1 too.

For example if either of our new players are scum and are being kind of inactive because they aren't quite sure what to do and they've been tossed into the deep end of the pool with no prior warning then I think that's something to look at.  But we would need SOME more posts from them at least to start to get that feel.

Who would be under the categories of "less active person" if you inclined to put them up for the lynch? Is there a world where inactive would be put forward ahead of anyone who's posted thus far in this D1? 

What are your thoughts on the priority wagons for this day phase? Have there been votes/wagons that have been of a concern?

---- Aaaaand Page 7---

2 hours ago, Percivalé said:

shinori is either hardcore town or power wolfing, I really appreciate his playstyle either way though. I also agree with him on pretty much everything lol

i assumed the DF vote on me was an RVS lol so i wasnt worried by it

don't wanna rely too much on meta (I don't remember a lot of meta anyhow & admittedly when I stopped playing mafia I didn't really read peoples' posts much LOL) but eury was one of my most confident reads back in the day and right now she's playing hardcore to her town meta, take that with a grain of salt but personally I just work with whatever I got even when it's not very strong/valid

j00 was a town read for me initially but the bart vote was /: given her main reason for it which was like, the one NAI thing about him lol, I also feel her behavior's noticeably different from last game which may not mean anything but it's noticeable enough to make my spidey sense go off

reading weapons town tbh

marth early game reads as contrived frustration at the game's slow start, though his take on the bartozio votes is good, considering I was one of the bart votes I have no issue with that part. don't like his response to weapons though because it also reads contrived and kind of fillery. when I was skimming the thread earlier I thought it was weird he didn't commit to the weapons vote right away (this is a thing I find scum commonly does and I have done it as scum & get the psychology behind it) but I realize clocking him for that would be hypocritical of me because I did the same thing with my bart vote (posted like twice about him before I actually voted him, this was really just me hating to vote on mobile lol but it's worth noting); the second response to weapons was good but I feel it's easy to chalk weapons up as not being used to multiball and if anything him seeming less aware of the implications of multiball setups may be a towntell considering scum are going to have on their minds more that there's another scum team. anyway thing is if this weren't multiball marth might be a townread for me but since the scum in this game are also still hunting scum (interesting that this is something marth's brought up too) this mixed back and forth I've been having with his content is making me think it's a sign he could be scum

eury/elie debacle is gonna have to wait because I don't have time to really dig into it right now but I am town reading eury currently

##Unvote: @Bartozio
##Vote: @Bluedoom

I can see where the bolded statement comes from, in the sense of him playing both strong games on either side (Shinori). I do agree that he's been pretty prominent with D1 so far.

Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I don't fully remember the name "Percivale" from older Mafia games, so I can only assume at this point that what games I've played with you were under a different notion or name lol. It was kinda why I was asking in prior posts regarding Meta and such, because I wasn't sure who you were (I'm sorry, please don't take offense! It's been literal years since I've touched Mafia forums lol). So I don't fully recall who/what meta the rest are speaking of, and it's making me try to dig in my memory banks of who I often ran games with to where you're confident in reading me from such.

Weapon's townread: Is there a specific reason for it, or gut read/vibes?

Joo read: Do you sense more scum intent with her current plays? What behavior is making you doubt the vibes from her slot?

Marth read/vote I can understand, given that I've had my own reservations with some of the responses/posts as commented before.

Overall, I don't currently have any issues with this post.

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

I will not hold anything from D1 against j00. If she is scum, we'll know it in later days but I'm not inclined to look into stuff from this phase because if she is playing weird, it's for non-alignment indicative reasons.

I know I've had my vote on Bartozio for most of the day, but truth be told he hasn't really changed my mind and most of the other players I have a read on I feel okay about. And I'm not particularly keen on lynching people with no game content because it won't really tell us anything.

Seriously though, we should start considering who we'd be willing to consolidate on.

I won't pretend to understand the reason behind this, but can assume either role or IRL reasons for the read? I figure the vagueness has a reason, so will not question further.

I don't disagree with her logic on Bart vote (in terms of not moving it) due to lack of satisfaction/change of impression, and agreed regarding the lynch notion.

---------------------------
OVERALL
There are several reads for me that remained the most consistent for me, and they are as follows:

Shinori and Sunwoo - It is hard to say which one technically leans harder in the town leaning, as both have been relatively active and had lots of contribution to prods and interactions. The fact that I'm feeling Shinori is actually leaning more town that Scumnori is actually surprising for me at this time, for the simple fact that I often do not trust this guy in Mafia games lol. But as of right now, they're probably the most comfortable "as townie as you can get" read from me atm.
 

Weapons - I didn't have a whole lot of issues currently with the posts from this slot, though they also seem the most willing next to Jamie to be OK with dropping the lynch on inactives. I don't think the opinion in itself speaks directly of alignment, but at this time, we stand to hit town moreso rather than scum if we blind shoot based on numbers alone. But otherwise didn't have much issues, slight townish read. Not as strong as above 2 slots.

j00- Not the strongest of reads for me, in the sense of town/scum -- While I didn't have much issues with the posts or content/votes, this slot wasn't the most memorable either in terms of prominent activity/voice (in good or bad). Solid Null, and would probably not be willing to put on the chopping block today, unless there was no other option.

Elieson/CT075 - For the 2 who voted me (IDR if anyone else did in the meantime), I'm not really sure what to think of either.
Elieson, for the simple fact that he and I have bantered over the silliest things before regarding games and otherwise, is someone that sometimes does get tripped up over wording or context of situations and has before in Mafia games too. Either misunderstanding or finding issues/confusion that sometimes comes off as nitpicking? I don't know if it was more prominent because of what he said earlier (in purposefully FORCING something?), but the larger issue I have at this time with this slot is his other reads seemed a LOT more lackluster and had a tunneled vibe for ??? reasons on me? I don't know whether scum!Elie would make as big of a splash with the posts as he did earlier, which is why I never voted or felt the need to respond in kind, even if his logic sounded quirky as heck to me.

CTO75- I'm not fully understanding the vote/case on me either, especially when I'm being accused of "Vote sitting" and other mentions that seemed to claim that I was nitpicking a newbie slot for an easy vote, which had nothing to do with it/my concerns at all. Slightly on the nitpicking side of Elie, but had stranger vibes to me. Could be a thing of not knowing the player nearly as well as Elie, but not certain.

I would not necessarily put them up to vote FIRST, but I would put them in the "Consolidation bucket" if absolutely necessary. Ahead of j00 in priority, but below the next mentioned players.

DF- Same issue, no change in stance. However, DF lynch will never happen D1, so there is no point in continuing to voice or vote here. I stand by what was stated before though, and still state this slot is not good atm. However, keeping it out of priority as it holds no bearing on what lynch happens TODAY. (This would likely go in front of Elie/CT though in priority if I had to place it there.)

Bluedoom/Bartozio - Currently the top wagons atm, I think? And currently the players that, with having more posts than other more inactive players, have seemed a bit iffy in their posts. Handful of posts have been a concern not just for me, but for a lot of other players as well, and I'm not honestly sure which wagon is worth more to invest in for D1.

I am personally fine with either, but I do NOT know where votes are atm (also about to go to sleep), I SHOULD be around for phase end (if it's in about 14-15 hrs tho will be working), but it may fall in an awkward timeframe (past lunch, but before end of shift), so I cannot guarantee to be able to watch the thread by end phase and be fully present.

CURRENT PRIORITY: Bluedoom = Bartozio > Elieson/CT075 > j00 > Everyone else not an interest for me for D1 lynch. Would take any of the aforementioned players before Inactives/Low activity, for the sake of interactions and flip results to go with D2 on.

##Unvote
##Vote: @Bluedoom

[j00]

Eury's wallposts are killing me but also giving me life. It truly feels like the Real Genuine SF Mafia Experience ™️ again 🙏

[Sunwoo]

11 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

So despite the improvement, Bartozio remains as the most prominent concern at this time? 
Several others, like j00, have commented their speculations with Bluedoom's posts- do those hold any concern for the people who are currently voting him? (Is the prodding for activity levels justification for what has been posted as of thus far?) @Sunwoo

Yeah, like, producing something is certainly better than nothing, but it also feels like he's giving the bare minimum and mostly when asked to directly. Apparently he's been busy and if this is so I get not having a lot of time to post. But it also just seems like even when he was around he wasn't really actively contributing and it just feels really off.

As for Marth, I actually haven't gone back and read his posts, so I really don't have much to say on him at the moment. I remember reading over his posts and having some comprehension issues on one of them, and deciding to deal with it when he got back and posted more stuff.

I don't know, it's like ... I know that being busy and being in an inconvenient time zone makes mafia harder than it has to be, but it also just feels like neither of them are really trying to move the game forward. Which at least feels different for Marth compared to the revival game where he was very actively trying to get things rolling. (That said, I have no idea if he's busy or has reasons to not be able to post as much as last game.) I guess his inactivity gives me a not-great gut feeling about it.

11 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

I won't pretend to understand the reason behind this, but can assume either role or IRL reasons for the read? I figure the vagueness has a reason, so will not question further.

See j00's post on previous page

I'm going to bed, so I won't be back for a couple of hours. I should be back before deadline though. Should ...

[Bluedoom]

@WeaponsofMassConstruction I guess that makes sense? FMPOV it felt weird that the conclusion that your came to was that it was town when it was nai more than anything. Wrt cases on me I don't think its justifiable and am annoyed about being voted for picking apart a townread when the alternative was making empty votes on 4 pages of nothing

 

@Eurykins Wrt my vote on weapons it was that Shinori's question was nai so the townread on him felt misplaced and weird, which made me wonder if that was Weapons' TMIing or something. Wrt the bart votes, I think people are blowing up out of proportion the things he's doing and then getting into confbias about him being mafia; nothing he has done has struck me as scummy. When I made that comment I didn't want to vote Percy because him voting bart out of gut is in character for him so I wasn't bothered by it much, and sunwoo I wanted to see where she went with her care. Since then I've been more bothered by j00 and Shinori; j00 because the votes on bart and me feel weird or even hypocritical when she admits that there hasn't been much going on in the game, and Shinori because the way he's playing feels like he's influencing the lynch without committing to anything hard.

[Percivalé]

49 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I don't fully remember the name "Percivale" from older Mafia games, so I can only assume at this point that what games I've played with you were under a different notion or name lol. It was kinda why I was asking in prior posts regarding Meta and such, because I wasn't sure who you were (I'm sorry, please don't take offense! It's been literal years since I've touched Mafia forums lol). So I don't fully recall who/what meta the rest are speaking of, and it's making me try to dig in my memory banks of who I often ran games with to where you're confident in reading me from such.

I don't blame you cuz I tend to change my name a lot, but if it helps I've gone by bizz, quote, levity, august, and via/viata

Quote

Weapon's townread: Is there a specific reason for it, or gut read/vibes?

kinda gut but also I thought his response to my question @ him was good, and stuff I mentioned in the marth paragraph (I think his not being aware of the implications of a multiball setup was genuine)

Quote

Joo read: Do you sense more scum intent with her current plays? What behavior is making you doubt the vibes from her slot?

well I might have been reading her off of stuff that is NAI, but the bart vote felt off for reasons I explained earlier

[Bluedoom]

11 hours ago, Shinori said:

Marth Bart and Elie are currently the people I'm fond of the least.

More of a focus on the first two there I think.

Sadly not a whole lot has happened here so most cases are kind of weak as a whole.

Marth is still kind of based off my initial post WRT them and I don't think their responses to me were enough to really change my opinion there.

Bart has that weirdness coming from RVS and has now given a reads post.  Putting both new players into their scum lean + myself based on gut + Weapons + J00 + Jamie.  Following through on their jamie read is at least there but I'm seeing some things I'm not really liking all that much.

Elie kind of feels like he's partially forcing his case on Eury to an extent and I can't tell if that's just scum trying to force a case and stick with it at the moment or if that's town that is swinging for anything that looks like something to them, at the moment I think it might be more of the latter.

I'm going to sidestep you thinking that me picking on a townread is scummy for a sec(although honestly my problem with you is the same here) because I have other points to address in this post.

 

Why is bart scummy exactly? What's scummy about a reads list in page 5 of the game when nothing is really happening? Dude is at least pushing jamie  which is more than what half the pl is doing. Why is Elie scummy for pushing a case on eury, and what would you expect town!Elie or town!Bart to do? 

 

This post feels like you're picking on people who tried to do something in RVS; do you think its scum MO to try and push a case grasping at straws during RVS?

[Bluedoom]

15 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Actually I considered joining it at some point, but it really felt like wagoning just to wagon. I mean I guess maybe that was the play just to help move things along, but even that felt likely pointless. I see what people are saying about Bart, but it feels more like people trying to latch onto something more than anything else.

Its funny that I'm agreeing with you here, but the bolded is how I'm feeling about the bart scum reads

[Bluedoom]

I don't think weapons has had any new scum reads other than j00(that's a mindmeld though) but I'm feeling more confident about this so ##Unvote ##Vote: @Shinori

[j00]

@Percivalé I'm not familiar with multiball either, I think I've played it once in an unannounced bastard game. What are the different mindsets and implications compared to usual 1-faction scum games (with or without SK)? 

On the top of my mind, I'm guessing it's that everyone can genuinely scumhunt, and that players can seem scummy but unaligned, whereas before you would have to consider that two scummy players who was at odds with each other might be a bus. Scum would also like to find the other team but has to keep game balance in check in terms of elimination priority. There's usually two kills every night. So assuming it's 10/2/2 it's more like double-team double SK.

Any other obvious stuff I'm missing?

[Sunwoo]

(I lied, I'm not asleep yet. Actual last post for a while though.)

Elie's SFM2 and Snike's Masquerade mafia were both multi-ball games, although the latter is a pain to reread because of anonymous accounts. Granted, I don't think either of those are the best examples of multi-ball for varying reasons, but I imagine that if you only have a single buddy, you'd probably want to avoid hard bussing them unless you're just THAT confident you can carry the game on your own. Nor would you want to tie yourself to them by defending them too hard.

Honestly, multi-ball just means that even after a scum lynch you can't just outright "clear" people on their wagon because they could still be on other scum team.

[Aster]

4 hours ago, Grace said:

(update: i have not read the thread since my last post and i'm starting to come down with some kind of illness; i will try and catch up but i cannot promise anything because i feel like absolute booty)

Aww, get well soon 😞

Anyway, trying to collect my thoughts and be precise about them because unfortunately new member message limit is starting to become a problem 😅
Apologies if this gets a bit big/wordy in that case.

15 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

Me? I mean I'll take it but why is that?

Eh you just seem chill so far. Which, to be fair I know that sometimes that's the whole plan for le scum but you keeping a level head is a green flag for me.

12 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Aster: She's pretty passive, which imo is more scummy than towny. Not too telling for a new player though, which is why she's the weakest scum lean.

Oof, sorry, context I'm used to playing amogus where usually everyone starts playing passive until they get proper evidence whilst playing aggressively is a a one-way ticket to getting beaned off the ship because whether you are or not it'll often make you look like le scum trying to hasten the game in your favor. Force of habit. 😅
Not to mention 100% was feeling what Weapons said here

15 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Actually I considered joining it at some point, but it really felt like wagoning just to wagon. I mean I guess maybe that was the play just to help move things along, but even that felt likely pointless. I see what people are saying about Bart, but it feels more like people trying to latch onto something more than anything else.

But yeah, good to know now that actually it's the reverse in Mafia. With that aggression strategy in mind and I guess speaking of I don't know entirely what to make of the spat going on other than apparently this is how both Elie and Eury act when they're towning from what past comments have said, so I think they're fine for now. Speaking of one of them.

1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

SIDE NOTE: The fact that Shinori, at this point, has questioned multiple times to multiple players "Why am I a town read?" is something that mildly gives him brownie points at this stage. Simple reason as to why: I don't think scum would constantly require justification for people reading them in good light, or questioning the logic/basis for their reads, and may more often coast with "Hey, I'm getting clears/in good vibes with peeps," and not question it openly for others to debate. I'm not saying for certain he's a hard town read FOR THIS REASON, but it does offer better vibes rather than worse at this point.

Yeah, I agree. I'll admit, I was a little suspicious at first with the initial push to lynch, but after reading through the chat more, I think he's passed the vibe check. 👍
Same goes for Bart at the start but again now learning that playing more aggressively out of the gate is the way to go so for now also pass.

That said, trying to reread everything to get what information I can.

15 hours ago, JamieIsBored said:

I was gonna get at this too, DefyingFates went from "I'll wait for more people to gauge an opinion" to voting for Percivalé with seemingly no reason.

I know I said Fates read town earlier, but this is a good point now that you mention it. Granted I am also new, I sympathize with not knowing what exactly to do, so not gonna vote for them this round, really just putting a pin on this in case they seem a bit suspicious later in the game.

Okay I know I just said I should play more aggressively but the more I reread the forum the more I legit don't have any solid scum leads right now. Like, there's some that definitely lean more toward null which is a start but other than some vague suspicions towards Fates (which like new player solidarity so giving them the benefit of the doubt unless they really start feeling off), I really got nothing.

Basically exactly this:

1 hour ago, j00 said:

This game has very few posts. No spam, but a bigger portion of very long posts that takes more effort to read.
A lot of inactivities, and people new to playing at SF and everyone seems a lot more cautious to post. Last game I formed stronger reads much earlier but this game lacks the overall intent to move the game forward the last one had. The "wagons" we have managed to agree on are 2 people voting the same player. That's probably a mix of scum having no motivation to do so and town grasping at straws due to lack of content, but as long nothing's really happening it's easy for scum to hide.

HOWEVER given this is the last day to vote I am gonna keep my eyes very peeled on the upcoming posts to see what happens when the chips are down, then make my decision based on who's acting the most scummy and give my reasoning then.

[Grace]

my brain is actually mush and i am having a read time reading into literally anything right now, but wanted to note re inactive lynches; there's no chance i will be awake at 8am for deadline, so unfortunately i wouldn't be able to claim in the case of a wagon. i'm debating whether i should specify anything about my role before i end up sleeping, but no idea atm.

gonna try and get something out now i suppose, even though i desperately do not want to reread elie/eury in any detail >_<

[BBM]

Mod Votals 1.4
 

Bluedoom (4): WeaponsofMassConstruction, j00, Percivale, Eurykins
Eurykins (2): Elieson, CT075
Shinori (2): Grace, Bluedoom
DefyingFates (1): JamieIsBored
Bartozio (1): Sunwoo
Percivale (1): DefyingFates
JamieIsBored (1): Bartozio
Not Voting: Shinori, Aster

Phase ends in approximately 8 hours and 56 minutes, at 6PM EST on July 17th. As a reminder, it takes 5 to lynch at deadline and 8 to hammer.

Edited July 17 by BBM

[JamieIsBored]

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

what the right words for this is, but felt like a post for the sake of posting something?

CWAC - Contributing Without Actually Contributing

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Is the vote/wagon on DF any form of consolation- any better/worse than the other ones currently?

Better than Bartozio atm, considering switching over to Bluedoom which I'd say is prolly the best wagon fmPOV for now.

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

is there someone else that piques your interest or concern?

 See above. Also any of my italiced reads in my reads or anyone that wasn't there. 

[CT075]

can someone actually explain the marth wagon to me there's way too much text on my screen and I have to go to the office shortly

Eury's non-DF content is Fine Comma I Guess (will read it more once I sit down), but I'm not a fan of the half-OMGUS on Elie and me, it seems very much like a "these people's cases on me are bad, only scum makes bad cases, I'm happy to vote people who make nitpicky cases but only if other people think so", like are we scum or not?

[CT075]

there are other things going on but phone mafia is actually cancerous how did i ever do this before

[CT075]

also for the record, my forum name is CT zero seven five not CTO seven five, but also you can just call me Cam

[Grace]

 

Quote

"This has probably been discussed before, but for scum optimal RVS play is often to just skip it. You rarely lynch inactives D1 so it's safer to stay away from anything that can potentially turn into conflict." - j00

like honestly, this feels really contrived. is it safer to do something that doesn't advance the gamestate in the hopes that town implodes on itself? scum's goal is realistically to avoid lynches and detrimental night actions, and you don't do that by barely existing (even if that ends up being the case at times, perfect play doesn't exist etc)
unsure whether the immediate bart vote despite having a defined idea in the post that they could have chased instead is worth pursuing, particularly in light of a later post  that mentioned that it was a wagon for a sake of a wagon to move the gamestate. leaning toward Just A Little Weird Chief
 

Quote

 

"Both he and Marth has focused on defending themselves, and Bart's reads post and vote on Jamie feels more like reads for reads sake rather than genuine scumhunting, even saying that it was something he did because Boron prodded him and because he was a wagon.

I'd be down with lynching Marth/Bart/Grace."

 

like i get it. i'm inactive, but also the fact no reason was specified feels off. the only other person who's even remotely mentioned a lynch on me is weapons, but specifically for inactivity. something dun feel right, would probably vote if we weren't in consolidation mode Soon(tm)

-

i'm not quoting any of the eury/elie posts (save me) but i actually think their collective interactions with each other are incredibly weird tonally. it's hard to explain but despite elie saying his initial case was forced, the way those two interacted even after (and all of eury's followups to related topics) felt overblown. severely. i do not know how to read that in terms of anything right now, but i know i don't like it in any case

-

i have no idea what to think of shinori's chicanery around voting tbh. like he's still been here but i can't pin whether it's trying to mess with alignment reads or whether it's a legitimate role restriction piece of work. i don't particularly feel like we're going to get any good answers today, and something still feels off there. will have a good ol think N1 about it

-
just looking at the current votals (sniped as of writing), and given i don't think a shinori wagon is happening today (since i'm moving my vote), it's currently just blue/eury. and honestly i can't really get enough brainpower to actually get proper reads on either atm, so unfortunately i might just resort to the kinda shit "balance the wagons vote" before i head off to sleep for the night (now). as above i'm not exactly reading eury tonally well to begin with so it's better than nothing? apologies for my shit D1, i love being sick
(as for aforementioned role mentioning stuff a few posts back; gonna refrain from doing that)

##Unvote: @Shinori
##Vote: @Eurykins

[CT075]

fwiw I don't think Eury is a realistic lynch target right now (I intend to move my vote once I'm caught up, I refuse to Actually Play from my phone)

[CT075]

21 minutes ago, CT075 said:

fwiw I don't think Eury is a realistic lynch target right now (I intend to move my vote once I'm caught up, I refuse to Actually Play from my phone)

(this is because I get the sense that people are generally townreading Eury and her stuff that is not about DefyingFates or derivative stuff doesn't immediately bug me so I think getting the required numbers is going to be impossible)

[j00]

7 minutes ago, Grace said:

is it safer to do something that doesn't advance the gamestate in the hopes that town implodes on itself? scum's goal is realistically to avoid lynches and detrimental night actions, and you don't do that by barely existing (even if that ends up being the case at times, perfect play doesn't exist etc)

Yes D1 that is a perfectly legit strategy here, especially since SF convention is to not lynch inactives D1.

Among the inactives it was basically you, two newbies and a player from offsite, and apparently some of them had posting issues with some new account posting limit or something. I don't think you had any other posts other than num spec before this which was NAI, and I already said earlier that I am willing to give new people more of a pass D1. They automatically become easy targets due to being unfamiliar with mafia on SF.

I'm not impressed by your post though. I get it, you're not in great shape IRL right now so I hope you get a good rest and recover, but there's been a lot of shade and suspicion thrown my way without anyone commiting to a vote yet. It just feels like an easy suspicion to parrot and partially an OMGUS in your case, particularly since people, including you, don't seem to have enough to stick to to actually commit to a vote on me. There's a lot of "idk j00 feels off from last game" and saying that I was voting just for the sake of it, but up until right now there has been no proper wagon with traction. It's been Bart, Marth and now Eury. I have admitted several times that yes I voted for the sake of it, but so has most people here because besides Elie and Eury's wall off, NOTHING IS HAPPENING. D1 it's better to vote for flimsy reasons than not at all, because we're not getting anywhere without interactions.

It takes 5 to lynch before deadline. Eury only gained any sort of traction just now, meaning besides Marth there isn't any proper strong feelings on anyone. Bart was an earlier wagon and can still happen, and if people want to put their vote where their suspicion is you can probably make a case on me too.

I find Marth's Shinori vote is a bit weird. Shinori is null to me and I get Grace's thoughts about him being here but not sure doing what. But Marth's vote just sounded like he disagreed with Shinori and found his post weak rather than explaning what he found scummy about it, but this late in it's a vote likely to gain traction unless you elaborate or push him harder.

[j00]

@Aster You shouldn't hold off on voting. Try to gather your thoughts on the current state of the game and vote earlier, you can always change your vote before deadline. It's not gonna help if we're struggling to consolidate right before deadline, and you decide the person you find scummiest is someone no one else are interested in eliminating.

I encourage you to participate more actively in discussion. Are any posts bothering you? Ask the player to explain their thoughts and reasoning better. Any arguments you agree or disagree with? Voice your opinion. Voting is a tool you should use for influencing the game, direction and discussion.

[j00]

@DefyingFates The above advice is meant for you as well. What are your thoughts on the current wagons, or any of the arguments regarding yourself?

[Bartozio]

Hi guys, back for now.

I was expecting to have to claim nog, but guess wagons moved elsewhere. I'm not really huge on either a blue or eury lynch though. @Grace if you're somehow still up, can I tempt you into going back to nori?

##vote @Shinori

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Im fine with consolidating on Bart, haven’t read his posts in a while and don’t remember them being particularly scummy but also not particularly townie either. There is something suspicious about Marth/Bart being our D1 wagons but oddly I don’t feel too badly about it. Speaking of Marth, I still think there are problems where his play doesn’t really make sense. It feels like he’s doubled down on finding my Shinori point suspicious, but that’s the thing is that clearly it must be forced to some extent if he was struggling to find a read beforehand, and I’d buy it if he said something like “yeah, I was over pushing the point to try to advance game state, I see why it could be read as out of place/tonally off” but he’s not going with this. I’m wary of tunneling here, but this combined with general activity levels makes me okay with sitting here.

j00 I’m okay with for now, I think she said something hypocritical which gives her plus points in my book.

@Eurykins on mobile so just going to try to answer questions from memory. Percy is a reliable meta read and probably struggles to be as pure as scum. The Shinori read is just really not important at all, I just felt inclined to overstate than undershare on that one. …Okay I don’t actually remember any of the other questions w/e will get back to it later.

@CT075 I want to say maf can get away with casing people more liberally  in multiball and town reads will just get in the way later, but (what does that mean) it’s not really significant and town tells are probably flippable anyway; what were your thoughts 

I think specifically in this game, lynching inactives D1 is good because of multiball combined with game state, but it’s kind of moot since the inactives are now becoming active 🎉. I’m pretty null on Cam and Grace tho, not really sure I can place where Cam’s head is at. Not wanting to lynch new players D1 kind of goes beyond game context though, it just feels bad to play a new game as a new player and get immediately chokeslammed into the ground by a bunch of hardcore experienced players, who may or may not have good reason for doing so. Though I suppose if DF is just gone I can consolidate 🤷‍♂️

Eury overall is good, can’t think of anything else worth mentioning atm