FE9 Tier list v3

[Shadow Mir]

I'm pretty sure the BEXP is quite a bit greater than the CEXP in ch. 10 since there aren't many reinforcements.

There are a good bit of reinforcements, with a Halberdier among them.

[Kinata]

Only 16. And most aren't that high of a level. If each gives, say, 25 EXP, that's 4 levels. Versus maybe 6 levels from the BEXP, maybe more if it's given it to underleveled units. So at the cost of a little WEXP, you get more total EXP and it's more flexible too.

[Shadow Mir]

Only 16. And most aren't that high of a level. If each gives, say, 25 EXP, that's 4 levels. Versus maybe 6 levels from the BEXP, maybe more if it's given it to underleveled units. So at the cost of a little WEXP, you get more total EXP and it's more flexible too.

You DO realize we're talking Hard mode here, right...? And there are 18 in Hard mode - but even then, 16 is a far cry from "not many reinforcements". Also, you're not taking into account non-kill EXP and healer exp, and even boss exp, as well as making it easier to get everything.

[Kinata]

Yes I know this is hard mode. And according to FE9 hard mode stats topic, there are 16 reinforcements but 19 if you include the 3 watches. You aren't going to get that much non-kill EXP with a strong team with maxed forges (which are easily affordable), and not that much heal EXP either. I'm pretty sure the enemies in this battle aren't that tough. Plus, you can kill the boss and archers in a stealth run.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Kinata

[Shadow Mir]

Yes I know this is hard mode. And according to FE9 hard mode stats topic, there are 16 reinforcements but 19 if you include the 3 watches. You aren't going to get that much non-kill EXP with a strong team with maxed forges (which are easily affordable), and not that much heal EXP either. I'm pretty sure the enemies in this battle aren't that tough. Plus, you can kill the boss and archers in a stealth run.

Dammit, I miscounted. At any rate, most of the enemies have levels ranging from 10 to 12. Unless you're assuming we're one-rounding consistently, which is foolish, enemies will be left alive after one round of combat. Also, that Halberdier is worth about a good 50 exp if killed. While I can kill the boss and archers while going stealth, exposing myself to *all three of them* is tantamount to suicide. Also, assuming we're maxing our forges isn't exactly smart.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Richter Lanford

[Kinata]

I don't know how strong our team is presumed to be, but there's a lot of soldiers and a couple of mages as enemies. It shouldn't be too hard to 1-round most of them. And it isn't too hard to do everything stealth. To deal with the 3 enemies, I put Boyd with a maxed forged iron axe (by maxed, I mean maximum accuracy and might, which is affordable even early on) in Danomill's range. He was able to survive all 3 attacks and half-killed Danomill. Then he escaped. Later, Ike finished off all 3, using the Regal sword against Danomill.

And I'm pretty sure we're not getting 50 EXP from a halberdier. More like 30-35.

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know how strong our team is presumed to be, but there's a lot of soldiers and a couple of mages as enemies. It shouldn't be too hard to 1-round most of them. And it isn't too hard to do everything stealth. To deal with the 3 enemies, I put Boyd with a maxed forged iron axe (by maxed, I mean maximum accuracy and might, which is affordable even early on) in Danomill's range. He was able to survive all 3 attacks and half-killed Danomill. Then he escaped. Later, Ike finished off all 3, using the Regal sword against Danomill.

And I'm pretty sure we're not getting 50 EXP from a halberdier. More like 30-35.

Neither am I. Mages are easy to take out, sure. But soldiers? FE9 soldiers are a far cry from the GBA-era loldiers that practically everyone and their grandma could one-round. Unless your name is Boyd or Titania, you aren't one-rounding them, most likely. Take a look at these:

2x Soldier lvl 11 (iron lance)

30 hp, 15 atk, 8 AS, 100 hit, 18 avo, 10 def, 3 res, 4 crt, 2 cev

1x Soldier lvl 11 (steel lance)

30 hp, 18 atk, 3 AS, 90 hit, 8 avo, 10 def, 3 res, 4 crt, 2 cev

I need 25 atk to kill these guys in 2 hits. Boyd can't double the iron lance soldiers until level 15 on average.

...I dunno what level you'd have to be at to be getting only 30-35 exp for killing a level 1 halberdier, especially since we're talking about everyone besides Titania being unpromoted, and I don't see an unpromoted unit getting only 30-35 exp from a promoted enemy unless they're close to promoting.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Richter Lanford

[RiffRaff]

Well depending on the level of your unit that makes the kill you won't be getting much higher than 35xp for the kill of this one according to the xp calcs on the POR page.

A level 7 unit would get 46.5 kill xp rounded however the game wants while getting 17.5 xp chip damage xp while a level 12 unit will only get 39xp for the kill and 15 if they lower it for another unit to kill.

[Shadow Mir]

Well depending on the level of your unit that makes the kill you won't be getting much higher than 35xp for the kill of this one according to the xp calcs on the POR page.

A level 7 unit would get 46.5 kill xp rounded however the game wants while getting 17.5 xp chip damage xp while a level 12 unit will only get 39xp for the kill and 15 if they lower it for another unit to kill.

Ok, but I'm still of the viewpoint that it's faster to defeat all the enemies than it is to take the pacifist route.

[Junkhead]

As for this list, any explanation for Makalov > Marcia? Is it the bow thing? I think Mak starts underleveled enough that he's in about the same boat for that and the only stat in which he has big wins at base is hp. She flies and is around longer.

I thought the same, what gets him up there is his Mov utility and a slight Def difference at the same level, Makalov is only winning in +8 HP there. But joining underleveled is pretty bad, in his case, he is locked to swords and with pretty low base Atk, it's good being able to not get too damaged, but it's a bit useless when you yourself can't do a good counter...why would you waste BEXP on an underleveled unit when you could be using it on thers who could turn out better, have been better before and can actually realize the same functions.?

Makalov seems more like a filler, you already have Titania, Oscar & Kieran for high Movility and combat utility. Then there's Marcia and Jill for flying utility.

Hm...is Mordecai above Kieran just because he comes one chapter earlier? (This counts as him being playable)

I think Muarim is actually better than Mordecai...Muarim's offense is pretty good as he does couple that with good Str/Spd/Def bases as well as good growths to get it even higher. Mordecai's base Spd won't take him to double much, if not anything that isn't a heavely equipped soldier.

Kieran should go above Mordecai IMO, Kieran has good offense and decent speed and a good support with Oscar who is in the top of the list.

Sorry. Had to see...what do you think of this?

Edited March 8, 2010 by Soul

[Fayt Zelpher]

Sorry. Had to see...what do you think of this?

Kieran IS in top tier while Mordecai is in upper mid... I'm not sure what you are trying to show, unless I'm missing your point altogether... :(

[Junkhead]

Have you read the context...? I wasn't stating Kieran wasn't top tier, I only posted this here because nobody bother to reply at the other thread. I was mainly asking why Mordecai was higher than Muarim at the other thread.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Have you read the context...? I wasn't stating Kieran wasn't top tier, I only posted this here because nobody bother to reply at the other thread. I was mainly asking why Mordecai was higher than Muarim at the other thread.

Oh, sorry. I wasn't really sure what you were trying to say... But yeah, it's really an issue of that huge speed gap, or at least that's what I got when I asked about it.

[Junkhead]

Spd gap you say? Between Muarim and Mordecai...? That should defeneatly placed Muarim above Mordecai then, Mordecai's Spd/Def doesn't grow as well as Muarim's either, he will have a bit of difficulty doubling and comes at lvl 2.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Spd gap you say? Between Muarim and Mordecai...? That should defeneatly placed Muarim above Mordecai then, Mordecai's Spd/Def doesn't grow as well as Muarim's either, he will have a bit of difficulty doubling and comes at lvl 2.

Oh, well something's messed up then. Muarim is definitely better. The only think I can think of is that Mordy has something like 31 base attack and that OHKO's a good bit of stuff for a while when he joins.

[Interceptor]

Out of curiosity, is there a known 12 turn stealth strategy for Ch 10? I just did one in NM and, with some luck, killed all 3 enemies in the chest room, got 3 escapes, and got the Statue Frag, Counter scroll, and Short Axe. In HM, I'd probably assume you can still get one of the Counter scroll and Short Axe and probably only 1 Escape (Ike), but it should still be doable. Before I post my log, is there a known method already?

Are you posting the log for this one? I also did a stealth clear of Ch10, but you definitely beat my score on items, so I'm interested to hear how you pulled it off, even if you don't post it specifically in this tier thread. IIRC the luck bit that I required was a Titania crit on the boss or something.

[Snowy_One]

I am baffled as to why Elincia is low on the list to be in bottom. I agree she isn't exceptional... because of her joining time. However, for that time she is present, she is fairly good. While I'm not the biggest Mist fan, I do acknowledge that Mist is far from a bad unit. Elincia is, more or less, Mist with the ability to fly and a infinite bravesword. While, once again, her joining time may prohibit her from being in the same tier, bottom seems unusually low. Even if you have Rhys, Mist, and two staff sages, having Elincia would either free one up to attack (Even if he only single-strikes, Rhys has some strong offense and the sages are fairly lethal in their own right) or allow for extra healing should things get REALLY bad. Even if everyone is fine, Elincia can just hover about and wait and suffer no ill-effects unlike a combat unit. So... Why is she in BOTTOM? Low would seem vastly more accurate.

[-Cynthia-]

Well she wasn't in Bottom initially, but the old Bottom tier characters were eliminated because no one there was considered that bad, so a lot of the previously Low characters ended up in Bottom.

Anyway, main reason Elincia is that low is availabiltiy, 3 chapters is the worst in the game aside from the dragons and laguz royals. There just aren't that many ways Elincia can contribute, since her offense is bad she is pretty much relegated to permanent staff utility. Staff utility isn't that useful at this point of the game (team durability is ridiculous at this point due to supports), and Elincia flying is hardly an advantage either due to Physics being available.

So yeah, being a filler healer for 3 chapters really isn't worth much, sort of Nasir being being a filler combat unit for 2 doesn'y put him very high either, thoguh he does hae soem usefulness.

[-Cynthia-]

After looking over various arguments, I have decided on Marcia> Ike. Ike has a lead in raw stats (and a small availability lead), bt flight and 1-2 range are just too useful to overlook in PoR IMO.

Of course this brings up the issue of whether Tanith>Ike, but Ike has a much bigger availability lead here, so I dunno.

[Snowy_One]

Doesn't Marica also have a chance of dying on the pirate ship before anyone can arrive as well?

[-Cynthia-]

It's not that large, since the pirates don't have good hit rates , they don't do much damage and she uses Vulneraries on herself if she's injured. The event only triggers at a certain point in the map anyway, so it can be timed so she only has to survive 2 turns.

Difficulty of recruitment isn't factored into this list really anyway, otherwise I'd drop Stefan some.

[Colonel M]

I really question the effectiveness of Armor Knights in efficient play, especially in this game when you consider that much of the team can be mounted. Granted that people can likely carry units such as Brom and Gatrie, but the other units like Ike and Danved can still walk on foot without major terrain penalties within the process. At the moment, Brom is over units such as Zihark and Soren. Now, I can tell you that eventually Zihark doesn't have as painful of durability issues overall (Maurim support is all he really needs). Soren contributes offensively, then on the sidelines with healing. My question is how highly do you, Cynthia, and perhaps others value the Armor Knights in this game overall. Seems fair enough to ask when you consider that their durability leads are nearly overkill and they have offensive woes that stretch to doubling few enemies (Gatrie) or still reaching said enemies in the first place.

[Snowy_One]

Aye. But Stefan can be found with 100% accuracy if you know how to get him. Marcia may die no matter how good you are simply due to bad luck. Doesn't the two-turns also assume you are using Titania? I mean, sure, she's powerful and all, but it's not required to use her to get to Marcia or get Marcia to leave. So why must we assume she will be the one clearing?

Sorry about not suggesting more relevant things. Marcia is honestly never talked about that much except for Marcia vs. Tanith on rare occasion around me.

Edit: I dislike the armors because of slow AS and not being much of a defense-type person myself (why take damage when I can kill it beforehand/avoid it?). However, they are VERY valuable if you can put them in a position where a lot of enemies are trying to push through. Like chapter 13 without Titania. Put Gatrie on one of the planks and keep him there while the team punches through another side. He'll keep some of the heat off them, kill some others, and you can put Rolf or Astrid behind him for EXP/pot shots.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Snowy_One

[Colonel M]

Units are usually tiered based on the criteria on what they contribute after recruitment. In this scenario, we do not factor Marcia's possibility of being killed since not only will it happen very rarely anyway, it isn't that difficult to restart the chapter in order to do so. Marcia is also a unit that saves turns later on anyway, so I don't see where her difficulty of being talked to in Chapter 2 really applies to her tier position over Ike.

[-Cynthia-]

The difference between Armor Knights in this game as opposed to some othes is that they actually can double, with enough KW use. They also have enough Str to consistently ORKO while doubling and 1-2 range, which are some advantages Brom has over people like Zihark.

Brom also has great supports and Gatrie has earlygame utility.

Tauroneo can't double, since it's too late for the KW, though he does have Resolve.