Red Fox of Fire's character review topic (Complete)

[Rewjeo]

So what is it that makes Lyre so awful? Well, do you remember how bad Mist was as a combat unit with her base 22 atk? Lyre's base atk is also 22. Only Lyre doesn't have 1-2 range and hasn't gotten a chance to level or build support like Mist, so she loses to Mist in raw damage output by 3-4 points per hit. To put into perspective, in her joining map she:

7 hit kills Warriors.

13-19 hit kills Halberdiers.

6 hit kills the weaker Swordmasters.

Is 3-4 atk short of even hurting Generals.

8 hit kills Snipers.

3-4 hit kills Sages. (Luckily for her, she doubles the slow ones)

Deals 1 damage to the Dragonmasters' 40-42 HP.

And Lyre is a combat unit!

That, ma'am, was just awesome.

[Narga_Rocks]

10.5: Ike (T)

Index of ratings:

10!: Haar, Ike

9.5: Volug, Titania (T), Mia (T)

9.0: Sothe, Leanne, Titania, Gatrie, Mia

8.5: Nolan, Jill (T), Zihark, Nailah, Elincia (T), Nephenee (T), Shinon

8.0: Micaiah, Rafiel, Elincia, Boyd (T)

7.5: Laura, Jill, Black Knight, Nephenee, Mordecai, Oscar (T)

7.0: Aran, Oscar, Ranulf

6.5: Marcia (T), Mist (T), Rolf (T), Boyd

6.0: Tauroneo, Heather, Marcia, Mist

5.5: Brom, Rhys

5.0: Muarim, Kieran (T), Makalov (T), Soren (T)

4.5: Tormod, Kieran

4.0: Edward, Geoffrey, Calill, Soren, Rolf

3.5: Leonardo, Lucia, Makalov

3.0: Ilyana, Vika (712871), Nealuchi (727479), Danved (762093)

2.5:

2.0: Lethe (750192)

1.5: Kyza (888892)

1.0: Astrid (T) (762093)

0.5: Meg (697933), Astrid (762093)

0.0: Fiona (706905), Lyre (888892)

So, I take it you aren't updating the individual posts when you make a change?

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17501&view=findpost&p=778904

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17501&view=findpost&p=794646

Mist's score doesn't match and Oscar's doesn't match either.

[Florete]

So, I take it you aren't updating the individual posts when you make a change?

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17501&view=findpost&p=778904

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17501&view=findpost&p=794646

Mist's score doesn't match and Oscar's doesn't match either.

My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Silith]

I'm not too sure about Mia yet. Giving her the adapt is a logical choice since she has amazing speed but even then she seems to be way too weak to deal significant amounts of damage to me. You cannot train her untransformed either since she's a Beorc and will do too much damage for that so in the atempts I made of training her she didn't do enough damage and eventually had her lagging behind in level and stats and was forced to ditch her since she became more of a liability then a contibutor.

If it's true that she has to bite through 3-P and 3-1 to become good afterwards with a critforge and Ike Support I wanna see that. So I promise I'll try that the next time I play through part 3 and try to use her. The last issue I have is her low Str cap. Isn't she going to like 5-6HKO Generals and Dragons in Endgame without a good mastery to keep her up?

[dondon151]

Holy shit, you can transform Mia?

[_____]

Holy shit, you can transform Mia?

Catgirl Mia: The Woman of a Thousand Fetishes

[Interceptor]

I'm not too sure about Mia yet. Giving her the adapt is a logical choice since she has amazing speed but even then she seems to be way too weak to deal significant amounts of damage to me. You cannot train her untransformed either since she's a Beorc and will do too much damage for that so in the atempts I made of training her she didn't do enough damage and eventually had her lagging behind in level and stats and was forced to ditch her since she became more of a liability then a contibutor.

If it's true that she has to bite through 3-P and 3-1 to become good afterwards with a critforge and Ike Support I wanna see that. So I promise I'll try that the next time I play through part 3 and try to use her. The last issue I have is her low Str cap. Isn't she going to like 5-6HKO Generals and Dragons in Endgame without a good mastery to keep her up?

Mia is reaching her martial peak around Trueblade 12 or 13 (seriously, go look at her stats: she does not even need to get to 20). If you pit her against the tankiest General on the map, 52 HP and 32 DEF, she's not 5HKO'ing unless she rocking 44mt. Consider that she's bringing 31 STR to the table, so even if you took her support partner and threw him/her off a cliff, Mia reaches 4HKO with a 14mt weapon. So, unless you are equipping her with a toothpick, a crit or Astra from Mia means a dead general. 6HKO+ is not even plausible, you'd have to break both of her arms, put a Bronze Sword in her teeth, and have her fight a General on a Cover tile with no Parity.

But, in reality, she has her support partner (+2 mt easy), and probably also has the Vague Katti. So now she's looking at 53mt, which is a 3HKO with room to spare. The above General could have 34 DEF and 57 HP, and he'd still be road pizza. Now, it's true that Mia cannot 2HKO a General, but since that takes 58 mt, and not even wtfTibarn has that much at base, I don't consider it to be a big deal. When Mia is 3HKO'ing, any of crit/Adept/Astra will end the General in a messy way.

And it's not hard to train Mia, even in 3-P and 3-1. Honestly, so many people are failing to ORKO in those chapters in Hard Mode, "training" her as as simple as just having her finish off someone else's leavings. It even makes tactical sense, since the guys who fail to ORKO are tanky-enough mofos who get bad EXP from kills in those chapters. I got her two levels by the end of 3-1 in my efficient run, just from curbstomping weakening enemies and occasionally taking a clean kill of her own with a crit or Adept.

Don't know what your major malfunction is when it comes to Swordmasters/Trueblades, but you really need to sit down and actually play one in such a way as to make them effective. Red Fox's write-up will put you well on your way to victory in that regard. Put yourself in the mindset of having enemies march into her on Enemy Phase, and using her early on Player Phase to take advantage of crit-procs when they happen.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Interceptor

[Junkhead]

Sothe

He has a lot of haters that know he's good but hate him anyway. I don't know why. I like him.

I got flamed pretty hard the last time I rated him because people thought I was giving him too much credit, but I'm still convinced he's just being hated on way too much for whatever retarded reasons people have. You people know who you are. Take this as you feel.

True. I hate him not because of the way he is as a unit, but more of the way of how he got great favoritism, I mean, he got REALLY buffed. And all of sudden he has as much knowledge as Soren and acts out as a guide and is familiarized with the allies he didn't even get to talk to or know them well. He was an anti-social kid, I find it imprudent that he talks with his ex-allies as if he knew them, if anything it would just be their name, but I certainly don't expect Jill, Zihark and Tauroneo to actually take interest in him.

This might be a bit irrelevant to talk here, but yeah, Sothe is a very good unit and most of his haters tend to take his lategame performance much more into account when hating on him.

[Interceptor]

I'm one of the aforementioned haters, and I still maintain that RFoF has him at least one point too high on this list. His lategame is not just bad, it's terrible. Like, when it comes time to bench someone to make room for Gareth in Endgame, I put him behind Sanaki.

Sothe has three-ish clutch chapters, on which a large part of his ranking is being based: Turn 3+ in 1-2, and all of 1-3 and 1-4. Starting in 1-5, with the addition of Volug, you start to see his contribution to efficient play as a share of the army begin to decline. He maintains good-to-decent performance relative to everyone else that's not Nailah/BK/Tauroneo up until 1-E -- although with an increasingly alarming number of qualifiers -- but then his performance drops off a cliff and he never recovers. I even have a hard time giving him full credit for finding shit in the 4-3 desert, since all it costs me to find them without him is time or Heather, who is just as useless as he is at combat, and not even needed in 4-4 because of the chest key glut.

Having him at 9.0 is an insult to Titania, Gatrie, Mia, Zihark, Nailah, Shinon, the Muffin Man, and common decency.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Interceptor

[Anouleth]

Having him at 9.0 is an insult to Titania, Gatrie, Mia, Zihark, Nailah, Shinon, the Muffin Man, and common decency.

Are you implying the Muffin Man should be in High Tier?

[Florete]

I'm one of the aforementioned haters, and I still maintain that RFoF has him at least one point too high on this list. His lategame is not just bad, it's terrible. Like, when it comes time to bench someone to make room for Gareth in Endgame, I put him behind Sanaki.

And apparently this means so much that Volug, who's only real advantage on Sothe is the last half or so of the game, a lot of which consists of part 4 which doesn't hold as much weight in general, should be at least 1.5 points higher, or at least I must assume so since you previously said my Volug rating was spot-on but Sothe is a full point too high.

And of course, this isn't even really Sothe's entire part 4, it's 4-4 and 4-5, since 4-4 is the very first map in the game where you lose someone else to field him.

Having him at 9.0 is an insult to Titania, Gatrie, Mia, Zihark, Nailah, Shinon, the Muffin Man, and common decency.

Titania, Gatrie, and Mia? Maybe. Nailah, Zihark, Shinon, and the Muffin Man? Cannot and will probably never see them > Sothe.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm not too sure about Mia yet. Giving her the adapt is a logical choice since she has amazing speed but even then she seems to be way too weak to deal significant amounts of damage to me. You cannot train her untransformed either since she's a Beorc and will do too much damage for that so in the atempts I made of training her she didn't do enough damage and eventually had her lagging behind in level and stats and was forced to ditch her since she became more of a liability then a contibutor.

If it's true that she has to bite through 3-P and 3-1 to become good afterwards with a critforge and Ike Support I wanna see that. So I promise I'll try that the next time I play through part 3 and try to use her. The last issue I have is her low Str cap. Isn't she going to like 5-6HKO Generals and Dragons in Endgame without a good mastery to keep her up?

Long ago I actually did a comparison of Mia in 3-P and 3-1 against the other GMs.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10600&view=findpost&p=521671

Scroll down to just after the third quote box. It starts there. A comparison of Mia's 3-P and 3-1 offence versus everyone else's in 3-P and 3-1. Most of the numbers there are without Adept, since even if she 4HKOs adept can still give an extra chance at a crit and she has a ~48% chance to cause enough extra damage to allow units to KO with more accurate weapons than things like Titania's Steel Poleax. Aside from for fun with the bosses, I mentioned Adept twice and didn't bother to calculate the combined chance of killing considering her natural crit and Adept.

By the way, have you actually played HM? Most of your team doesn't actually double here in HM, unlike the other modes where they can double more stuff. You might notice Ike has 23 spd and there are a few things with 20. Titania and Oscar only have 21 and Gatrie has just 20.

[Interceptor]

And apparently this means so much that Volug, who's only real advantage on Sothe is the last half or so of the game, a lot of which consists of part 4 which doesn't hold as much weight in general, should be at least 1.5 points higher, or at least I must assume so since you previously said my Volug rating was spot-on but Sothe is a full point too high.

Personally, I think that Volug is significantly better than Sothe overall, owing to his Part 3 performance as well as what he does pre-Endgame. But under the stipulation that Volug is not much better than Sothe, as you say, allow me to posit another explanation for the disparity: that I am wrong about Volug. Remember that I used to think that Marcia was the best Part 2 unit.

And of course, this isn't even really Sothe's entire part 4, it's 4-4 and 4-5, since 4-4 is the very first map in the game where you lose someone else to field him.

I am not really ragging on Sothe's taking up a deployment slot, so much as I am pointing out that a Sothe comparison rarely even has to take it into account in the first place, since he's so bad that his free deployment earns him utility equal to approximately the value of a handful of pocket lint. He is so god awful that he's not even good as a janitor in the last two maps, since he can't even kill spirits without a miracle.

Titania, Gatrie, and Mia? Maybe. Nailah, Zihark, Shinon, and the Muffin Man? Cannot and will probably never see them > Sothe.

Leave the Muffin Man out of this. Do you even know who he is?

[Original Alear]

He is so god awful that he's not even good as a janitor in the last two maps, since he can't even kill spirits without a miracle.

I don't think spirits can critical, their weapons have a bronze-style "no critical" effect, so why would miracle matter?

(well, I don't know what miracle actually does, but I've always assumed that by "fatal strike" it meant that a critical hit does 1/2 of the normal damage, as opposed to say a killing strike does 1/2 of fatal damage, potentailly still killing the character)

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't think spirits can critical, their weapons have a bronze-style "no critical" effect, so why would miracle matter?

(well, I don't know what miracle actually does, but I've always assumed that by "fatal strike" it meant that a critical hit does 1/2 of the normal damage, as opposed to say a killing strike does 1/2 of fatal damage, potentailly still killing the character)

Not Miracle the skill. Miracle as in act of god for him to actually kill something. Considering his Bane activation is under 20% and it needs to happen on the first attack, it's not far from the truth. Oh, they have 30 luck as well so even Baselard means he ends up with just 4% crit if he maxes skill. (38/2 = 19, 19 + 15 = 34, 34 - 30 = 4% crit). So yeah, miracle.

But I would think "Janitor" would be "clean up duty", and considering if he caps tier 2 speed then at xx/xx/1 he has 24 str, Baselard means 42 mt. That should kill most injured spirits in one hit, depending on the circumstances.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Silith]

I seem to be Jynxed when it comes to Swordmasters. I'm hoping for improvement for my current Mia but as it stands now she's only gaining 1 stat each level.

(Mia level 14)

HP: 37

Str: 17

Mag: 5

Skl: 28

Spd: 29

Lck: 18

Def: 13

Res: 8

But then again I've never had good times with Swordmasters. My friend and I still hold monthly matches against each other with FE:7. His faforite is Guy and when we did 1 vs 1 his Guy never won against my Serra. Ah the good times.

But seriously this kind of thing always seem to happen to me. I might as well try and use all Swordmasters next time so that at least 1 maybe isn't getting screwed by the time I reach endgame. If I look at the average stats of a Trueblade (13-14 was suggested?) they are pretty good though I still think that many other options are just plainly better. Enough at least to fill up your team without any Trueblade even if you choose to not use Royals. (Another thing I seem to do)

[Narga_Rocks]

I seem to be Jynxed when it comes to Swordmasters. I'm hoping for improvement for my current Mia but as it stands now she's only gaining 1 stat each level.

(Mia level 14)

HP: 37

Str: 17

Mag: 5

Skl: 28

Spd: 29

Lck: 18

Def: 13

Res: 8

But then again I've never had good times with Swordmasters. My friend and I still hold monthly matches against each other with FE:7. His faforite is Guy and when we did 1 vs 1 his Guy never won against my Serra. Ah the good times.

But seriously this kind of thing always seem to happen to me. I might as well try and use all Swordmasters next time so that at least 1 maybe isn't getting screwed by the time I reach endgame. If I look at the average stats of a Trueblade (13-14 was suggested?) they are pretty good though I still think that many other options are just plainly better. Enough at least to fill up your team without any Trueblade even if you choose to not use Royals. (Another thing I seem to do)

So yeah, Mia has a 45% str growth and a 40% def growth. For a point of reference, Allen in fe6 had a 45% str growth and a 25% def growth. Mia also has a 35% luck growth. Lance and Dieck had a 35% luck growth.

Somehow, your Mia managed to never get a single point of any of that in 7 levels.

(.55)⁷x(.60)⁷x(.65)⁷ = .00002089253...

So your Mia pulled off a ~0.002% chance there. Or put another way, 1 in 47863 chance. That's spectacularly unlucky.

Oh, and many of your options in HM simply don't double. Even when they do, if they don't 2HKO then Mia's crit bonus tends to give her a higher chance of killing stuff than many of your other units. Take Ike, for example. Believe it or not, in HM Mia has a higher chance of killing many Generals than Ike himself. Even if you give Ike a +mt support, 55 mt fails to ORKO many of the generals (level 20/12 Ike with +2 mt from supports). eg any general with 51 hp and 30 def or 50 hp and 31 def. More Generals live than are 2HKOd. Even pump Ike up a level or two to get him 56 mt and he still misses on the 51hp/31def Generals. They are pretty plentiful as well. And that's Ike. And even with capped str and a +mt support he'll still fail on the 32 def Generals, though at least more Generals don't have that than those that do.

Also, two of Mia's biggest selling points are 4-1 and 4-4. She's still quite good in 4-E, though, considering she 3HKOs everything or better (eg 2HKOs white dragons with wyrmslayer). Also, being able to double auras while using parity is helpful as well. Being able to combo with base Tibarn for a ORKO of a cover tile aura is cool.

Oh, and about those stats. 1 point of speed in 7 levels with a 65% growth? 2 points of skill with a 60% growth?

Also, she got 6 points in 7 levels, which is quite literally impossible in RD since the game forces at least 1 stat every level, so I'm going to have to ask you to re-check those stats. Especially since even if I ignore that little detail, if I include the other stats that went badly for you in the calculations for the probability of her getting that screwed we'll get to the 1 in 10 billion type levels pretty quickly. Well, maybe not that bad, but close.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

If I look at the average stats of a Trueblade (13-14 was suggested?) they are pretty good though I still think that many other options are just plainly better. Enough at least to fill up your team without any Trueblade even if you choose to not use Royals. (Another thing I seem to do)

Only two Trueblades are really "done" at 13-14: Mia and Eddie. Zihark, Lucia, and Stefan need a bit more time in the oven before they reach their potential, such that it's even possible in Lucia's case. Stefan is a RNG-proof Trueblade that you get just in time for Endgame. Use him next time, a few levels of BEXP and he's good to go.

Regarding options that are plainly better, you have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously don't want to stuff your Endgame team full of Sword-users, but one or two Trueblades is an excellent addition to an army that has Royals, a good Reaver, female Dracoknight, 34 SPD cap Halberdier, Marksman, etc.

[Silith]

Another thing I realise is that I've never done the endgame as it's supposed to be done on HM.

I've so far done gimmic runs that mostly involve someone soloing endgame. Figures how easy endgame truely is.

Funny thing the only one besides Ike that mains Swords that I've ever taken to Endgame has been Meg. and I remember her doing pretty well.

I'll try Stefan next time. (I used him once in FE:9 but he seemed like a critmagnet)

And my Mia got a 2-stat up levelup. HP and Luck!

[Victor Fang]

Leave the Muffin Man out of this. Do you even know who he is?

Do you know the Muffin Man?

[Zkirsche]

Are you implying the Muffin Man should be in High Tier?

The muffin man belongs in the Chuck Norris Tier, along with Noah.

[Florete]

Reyson

The third and final heron.

Now, we all know what Reyson can do that makes him unique; Vigor, Bliss, or Sorrow one unit untransformed, four units transformed. I don't think I need to go too far into the benefits of this, either, because it's pretty obvious. Four of your units getting the ability to move again every turn works wonders for clearing maps. So this review is really going to be more of a comparison between Reyson and the other two Herons including what makes him unique.

First off, he needs to transform to get his full potential out, which the other two don't since transforming gets them little benefit (doubled stats, and Leanne gets one more Move). Fortunately for Reyson, he just happens to be the one that has no problem with this since you can have as many as 8 uses of Laguz Stone by the time Reyson joins in 3-5 while he only needs 5 to last until the end of part 3. This means that, aside from turn 1, he can be transformed all the time. The only downside is that your other Laguz can't use very many, but Reyson can just Vigor them anyway and they could all use more Olivi Grass, so in the end it works much, much better on him anyway.

Another significant advantage Reyson has going for him is durability. Don't get me wrong, Reyson is no tank. However, 22 AS doesn't get doubled until a single enemy in 3-11 and then some in 3-E. 40 HP and 12 Def also means he can almost always take one hit since, Bows aside, the first enemy to reach 52 atk is Levail 4-E-2. Even those Swordmasters that double him don't have enough atk to kill him in two hits. This means Reyson will survive if you make a slight mistake, or he can be thrown in front of most enemies in a pinch to save someone.

Then there's Reyson's mobility. He has more Move than both the others (8 transformed. Leanne has 6 and Rafiel has 5) as well as Canto and access to Celerity as long as he exists. He can almost always reach what you need him to and then get out of the way of enemies. It also helps that his team has its fair share of good and decent Cantoing units like Titania, Haar, Oscar, Janaff, Ulki, and eventually all of the Crimean Royal Knights (minus Danved and Calill) to make forming diamonds easy.

Reyson is also the one that happens to be able to make use of his affinity. Rafiel and Leanne go away too fast to build anything, but Reyson is around for some time and Fire actually happens to be pretty good for Janaff and Ulki, both of whom tend to be pretty borderline on killing some enemies. It's not a huge boon because Reyson isn't near enemies too often, but it's a nice added bonus.

Other small benefits include 10 Magic to heal someone standing next to him if they couldn't get a heal in any other way and Bliss and Sorrow when a Vigor is not what the doctor called for (I generally only find this to be used against bosses, but I've known it to be useful in other places as well). These aren't much alone, but every little benefit helps.

I mentioned in Rafiel's review why I see Reyson as the superior choice for Endgame but didn't go into detail. I'd rather not go into great detail here either, but it basically boils down to Reyson having more Move and Canto, the latter of which can be especially useful in 4-E-5. Aside from that, the only real problem with Reyson is his availability; he has only 5 part 3 maps, giving him 12 maps in total, 5 being the short Endgame maps. Someone like Ike has 18 maps in total, 11 being part 3. It then comes down to how valuable you really see Reyson's contribution being. Some think he just isn't around long enough to rank as high as the Gods like Ike and Haar. Others think his contributions while he exists outweigh what anyone else can do. In my opinion, neither side is really wrong and both have logical reasoning to back them up.

I, however, fall into the latter category, and the score follows.

10/10

Oh yeah, the transfer:

He can get...Skill. "Wait, what?" you say? I shit you not, the one stat Reyson can transfer is arguably the most useless right beside Strength. Why did they give him a 50% Skill growth in PoR? The world may never know.

Janaff & Ulki

Honestly, these two are so similar it's easier to just do them in one review while pointing out the differences. They'll be getting the same score and it would just boil down to a comparison between the two anyway, so I might as well save space.

They join at the same time, have the same availability, etc. They both will never die if you're Doing It Right. Same Hawk gauge (which, unlike some others, is actually pretty reasonable), Move, double everything, the works. Using one will not be too much different from using the other.

Pretty much the only thing that actually makes them unique is their Strength. Transformed, Janaff has 4 more, which is the difference between killing and not killing some enemies like Warriors and Halberdiers. It also means he does 8 more damage to enemies neither kill, making it easier for others kill. This means Janaff is slightly better overall, even though it doesn't last forever; Ulki's Water affinity means he can do some catching up and reach some of the enemies he missed, especially is he supports Reyson.

Ulki has a very minor durability lead. He has more avoid owing to slightly more Speed (though less Luck) with Vigilance and relatively equal concrete durability. Both have affinities that boost Defense, though only Janaff's raises avoid (Ulki gets atk in return though, which he prefers). Interestingly enough, both are 4 HP/Defense away from being able to take a Crossbow hit and live.

Another small advantage for Janaff is his base level. He is one level away from being able to use Tear while Ulki is 2, further increasing the advantage in offense. Both are very good units to use in the long run. They won't die as long as you keep them away from the few problematic enemies and keep them transformed. They are great offensive units with useful affinities, they always double so building Strike is easy, and they are good users of resources like Adept, Wrath, and an Energy Drop to give them that slight boost into clean sweeping. They have high Move, Canto, and pretty much come with Endgame-ready stats. The only thing is that they just aren't around as long as your other fighters.

Keep note that while they get the same score (although it isn't impossible for Janaff to jump .5 or Ulki to drop .5 with some further investigating, seeing as 8.5 is getting rather crowded), Janaff remains the superior unit.

8.5/10

Transfer junk:

Ulki can get Strength (with a PoR Energy Drop), Janaff nothing. This makes the Transfer version of Ulki better because the one significant advantage Janaff had just vanished, but it doesn't do enough to get an improved score.

[Interceptor]

I like the write-ups as usual, but I have two things I'm going to disagree with you on.

First, Raisin is not the best Endgame heron. OK, there's no effective difference between then in 4-E-5 because you're not 1-turning Ashera in Hard Mode, but that's the only place where Rafiel's contribution literally makes no overall difference. Raisin has no answer to Rafiel's 1-turning of 4-E-3 and 4-E-4, at least not that this soldier can see. They are approximately equal in 4-E-2's 1-turn, except in the case where one of your siege bombers misses (which DOES happen, even with Blood Tide, because of Resolve). In which case, Rafiel wins for not only giving you another shot with all of your siege units, but for allowing a Marksman to run down and peg Levail at range. In 4-E-1, Rafiel is more difficult to protect but he also allows you to easily kill off both Hetzel and the other Sleep staff Bishop off on Turn 1, which is so incredibly useful that he should have a strategy named after him, srsly.

Arguments can be made about the magnitude here, but on balance, I think that Rafiel's better for efficient clears of Endgame.

Secondly, I think that Janaff's lead over Ulki should be at least a point. Durability is a non-issue as you said, they are both never dying. Offense, however, is a big deal. The fact of the matter is, Janaff clean-hit kills things and Ulki doesn't, which means I have to have some other unit finish off Ulki's dinner. For the things that Janaff can't handle, as you mentioned he gets Tear much more easily, and for everything else there's Adept (which Ulki is negligibly better with). I realize that I'm not really disagreeing with you here, just giving my two cents. I hope that you can figure out a solution to the (lack of a) gap problem for the two of them.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Interceptor

[Anouleth]

I think Red Fox should have mentioned Reyson's role in completing 4-5 quickly, and I agree with Interceptor about Endgame (those extra 4 Vigors on the first turn are so useful). I can see why you gave Janaff and Ulki the same score, though - they're indistinguishable, pretty much, except for their Strength. I can't really see either of them over Elincia (T) or Nailah or whoever.

I'd suggest you order characters within each point, but that would really just turn it into Tier List RFOF Edition.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Anouleth

[grandjackal]

Another thing is that Raphael's lack of needing transformation items leaves some more laguz gems for taking/selling, if anyone cares.