Nino vs Lilinia

[Tangerine]

Something even more interesting is that Nino does not get doubled at base level, whereas everything short of Knights and Soldiers double Lilina for quite a while. That's FE6 for you.

[Rewjeo]

The most interesting thing of all? Your group in FE7 will already be well set and very powerful. Trying to use Nino seriously will drastically slow you down for the rest of the game. Lilina slows you down much less and joins you early enough to become a major part of your team.

[Tangerine]

Using Nino will slow you down LESS than using Lilina would. Having a team that is already powerful and does not need to worry about losing a unit makes raising a weaker unit easier. Lilina getting doubled by everything is horrible and slows you down much more than Nino does. At least Nino can take a hit at base level, Lilina will get doubled and killed.

[Ansem]

Using Nino will slow you down LESS than using Lilina would. Having a team that is already powerful and does not need to worry about losing a unit makes raising a weaker unit easier. Lilina getting doubled by everything is horrible and slows you down much more than Nino does. At least Nino can take a hit at base level, Lilina will get doubled and killed.

One of the reasons i choose nino over her

[Candlejack]

Because this topic was pointless to begin with anyway?

I'm surprised you'd say that, given the number of posts you've invested in tier list discussions and other debates.

That's because they were relevant considering both characters were from the same game.

[Rewjeo]

Using Nino will slow you down LESS than using Lilina would. Having a team that is already powerful and does not need to worry about losing a unit makes raising a weaker unit easier. Lilina getting doubled by everything is horrible and slows you down much more than Nino does. At least Nino can take a hit at base level, Lilina will get doubled and killed.

How do you plan on getting her kills when all of your units ORKO 90% of enemies? The only reason Nino would slow you down less would be if you deployed them both but did nothing with them. Lilina's on a team that ins't ORKOing all the time and actually does enough damage to pick things off. Both of them need a lot of protection, but Lilina eventually becomes useful. Nino never does. Oh, and:

-Lower Mid Tier-

Cecilia

Bartre

Tate

Noah

Zealot

Treck

Oujay

Geese

Ward

Fa

Niime

Ray

Igrene

Lilina

Garret

Douglas

Barth

-Bottom-

Wallace

Renault

Karla

Nino

[Tangerine]

How do you plan on getting her kills when all of your units ORKO 90% of enemies? The only reason Nino would slow you down less would be if you deployed them both but did nothing with them. Lilina's on a team that ins't ORKOing all the time and actually does enough damage to pick things off. Both of them need a lot of protection, but Lilina eventually becomes useful. Nino never does.

90% of your units ORKO enemies? Use weaker weapons. Jeez, I never want to hear people insulting GameFAQs members again. What is this horrible SPIN anyway? It's good to be using a crap unit when your units are not invincible? No, just no.

Eventually becoming useful is not a good thing when you are utter garbage for the time you aren't. Also, she does not eventually become useful, she still sucks late game.

Oh, and:

Tier list placements do not matter, that is an extremely weak argument that only showcases your inability to actually refute my points. The only reason Lilina is that high is because FE6 has better enemies and some very horrible units compared to FE7, where everyone is usable. Lilina should probably not be above Garret or Douglas either, but this isn't the topic for that.

On a ranked tier list, Nino would not be in bottom. Never got to updating ours though.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Tangerine

[Florete]

90% of your units ORKO enemies? Use weaker weapons. Jeez, I never want to hear people insulting GameFAQs members again. What is this horrible SPIN anyway? It's good to be using a crap unit when your units are not invincible? No, just no.

I'm closer to thinking we should step it up a notch. ORKOing is a good thing. Why would I want to prevent that? To train Nino? Sucks to be her. Also, in my experience I find that even Iron weapons on some of the better characters will ORKO a good portion of enemies, so leaving enemies for the weakling to kill isn't always possible even if it doesn't hurt efficiency (which otherwise is the only time Nino is reasonably getting kills until she's leveled enough to kill on her own, which takes a while).

I do agree, however, that using Nino does not really slow you down unless you purposely set up kills for her every turn.

[Tangerine]

I'm closer to thinking we should step it up a notch. ORKOing is a good thing. Why would I want to prevent that? To train Nino? Sucks to be her.

ORKOing is good, but more often than not it isn't necessary when your team is invincible.

Also, in my experience I find that even Iron weapons on some of the better characters will ORKO a good portion of enemies, so leaving enemies for the weakling to kill isn't always possible even if it doesn't hurt efficiency (which otherwise is the only time Nino is reasonably getting kills until she's leveled enough to kill on her own, which takes a while).

Slim weapons are available and make it pretty hard to ORKO most enemies. I'm not suggesting you feed her every kill on the map anyway, I'm saying it doesn't slow you down at all to give her kills often and it doesn't take her long to start doing well by herself. 15/1 Nino is pretty comparable to 20/5 Erk, which is only 10 levels..

I do agree, however, that using Nino does not really slow you down unless you purposely set up kills for her every turn.

That's largely in part to her not actually being in a ton of danger. Nino can afford to get hit.

[Rewjeo]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

[BK-201]

Why would you ever want to not 1RKO when you can?

If Nino needs your troops to not 1RKO then that's holding them back.

Edited January 17, 2010 by BlackKnight

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

Because when we finish the game, Nino will be the same level as Lilina.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

Because when we finish the game, Nino will be the same level as Lilina.

She doesn't need to be.

a 20/0 Lilina has the same Spd as Base Nino,Yes Nino loses more AS from tomes,but Also fights slower enemies.

Add that to the fact that Nino is easier to raise,and it is simple to see.

In fact,even if Lilina hit 20/20,Nino would only need to hit 20/0,or any equivalent level,to match Spd,that,my friend,is pitiful.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

Because when we finish the game, Nino will be the same level as Lilina.

She doesn't need to be.

a 20/0 Lilina has the same Spd as Base Nino,Yes Nino loses more AS from tomes,but Also fights slower enemies.

Add that to the fact that Nino is easier to raise,and it is simple to see.

In fact,even if Lilina hit 20/20,Nino would only need to hit 20/0,or any equivalent level,to match Spd,that,my friend,is pitiful.

Except Nino isn't getting to that level without babying. You also ignored Lilina's OVERKILL Magic.

[Ether]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

Because when we finish the game, Nino will be the same level as Lilina.

She doesn't need to be.

a 20/0 Lilina has the same Spd as Base Nino,Yes Nino loses more AS from tomes,but Also fights slower enemies.

Add that to the fact that Nino is easier to raise,and it is simple to see.

In fact,even if Lilina hit 20/20,Nino would only need to hit 20/0,or any equivalent level,to match Spd,that,my friend,is pitiful.

Except Nino isn't getting to that level without babying. You also ignored Lilina's OVERKILL Magic.

Yet it would take less babying than to get Lilina to where she needs to be.

Also,lilina's mag isn't enough to OHKO,so it doesn;t save her from not doubling.

You see,the problem with your argument is that you want to favorite Lilina,but not Nino,despite the fact that it is easier and more worthwile to favorite Nino over Lilina.

As long as you continue this,you're argument won't get anywhere.

[BK-201]

If we go from ORKOing everything to 2RKOing everything, then it could easily double the amount of time the chapter takes. It might not effect it much, but it's a big difference.

And saying "BUT RANKED RUNS" doesn't mean much. The vast majority of people don't care about ranks and would much rather play an efficient game. There's a reason FE7 was the last game with Ranks in it. IS realized how pointless they were.

What about base Nino? How comparable is she to 20/1 Erk? Not very. And that's pretty low for him to be, as well.

Saying "She's only higher because of this..." doesn't change the fact that she IS higher. That's easily weaker than my argument. You admit that Lilina is better in comparison to her team, but then try to argue that Nino's better?

I think they meant that having one team member use a slim weapon and having Nino finish it off is no different than just killing it outright,so Nino gets exp without hurting anything,not that everyone is using slim now.

Lilina doesn't need that nearly as much. Attacking armors from range. So basically by this logic we have to conclude Nino is getting ~1 kill per turn. It really isn't worth it. Lilina at least comes early enough that you don't need to stick a knife in your arm to get her kills.

It's not sticking a knife in your arm,it's just giving Nino a way to get exp.Either way,the enemy dies,and you don;t need two main combat units to do it,just 1 + Nino.

The big difference is that Nino gains EXP faster than Lilina due to higher level enemies,and doesn;t take a horrid amount of time to hold her own.The thing with Lilina is that she will never be an efficient combat unit,due to her spd,while Nino can double and kill once raised.Since neither is worth all that much while they are being babied,Nino is the superior character for being better afterward.

A debate would assume that both characters are trained. Lilina doesn't get weighed down by every tome not named fire like Nino does. The higher damage output with no/less AS loss is better than Nino getting weighed down by everything. Sage Lilina only loses 1 AS from foreblaze, while Nino loses 1 AS from thunder, 5 from elfire, etc. At base level with an elfire, their AS isn't that different. And Nino is 4 levels higher. Lilina actually gets time to level and by that time using respective tomes, Lilina's AS can be better than Nino considering that Nino loses a huge amount of speed from tomes other than fire.

Thier AS is not Similar at all.Nino has +7 base,+25% growth,is lower leveled relative to enemies,and thus grows faster,and faces slower enemies.Nino and Lilina's AS isn;t even on the same goddamn planet.Losing 2 AS from thunder isn;t gonna make her slower than Lilina

Lilina doesn't lose anything from elfire. Nino loses 6 as a mage, and 5 as a sage. That drags her down considerably. At base level with elfire, Nino goes down to 6 AS compared to Lilina's 4 AS and she's 4 levels higher. And only 4 damage more. The point is Lilina has a better arsenel of weapons that she can use properly as opposed to Nino. With the weighing down from the good tomes, she will get doubled and killed.

So Nino doesn;t use Elfire,pretty Simple.FE7 thunder has the same Mt as FE6 Elfire,so it's not like she's taking a Mt hit in comparison.And Thunder has 4 less Wt.

Minus 2 speed. With a unit with that durability into the game, it can lead to death. If you do it debate styled and move them into a spot proportional to their games, Lilina's end stats WILL beat Nino's.

9 Base AS is fine for FE7,since 13-14 doubles reliably for most of the game,she's in no danger of being doubled aside from a couple select enemies you probably want to get rid of quickly anyway.

Lilina will be doubled more than Nino.While by 13/1,Nino has 14 AS with thunder,and doubles,while also having Staves,so she is pulling her own weight.That's 8 levels,and growing faster than Lilina.

8 levels later for Lilina...7 Spd...wow,so impressive.Looks like Lilina is still holding us back.

You see,while both are bad early on,Nino becomes a competent offensive unit eventually,while Lilina does not.

Because when we finish the game, Nino will be the same level as Lilina.

She doesn't need to be.

a 20/0 Lilina has the same Spd as Base Nino,Yes Nino loses more AS from tomes,but Also fights slower enemies.

Add that to the fact that Nino is easier to raise,and it is simple to see.

In fact,even if Lilina hit 20/20,Nino would only need to hit 20/0,or any equivalent level,to match Spd,that,my friend,is pitiful.

Except Nino isn't getting to that level without babying. You also ignored Lilina's OVERKILL Magic.

Yet it would take less babying than to get Lilina to where she needs to be.

Also,lilina's mag isn't enough to OHKO,so it doesn;t save her from not doubling.

You see,the problem with your argument is that you want to favorite Lilina,but not Nino,despite the fact that it is easier and more worthwile to favorite Nino over Lilina.

As long as you continue this,you're argument won't get anywhere.

How am I babying?

The agreed levels that they could reach WITHOUT babying were 20/10 and 15/1.

Edited January 17, 2010 by BlackKnight