[OUTDATED] Elibian Nights

[Dunal]

Natalie should be in 1x (Healer + Dorcas Support). Rebecca only comes with a longbow in 1x (where's her silver? ). Wil needs a buff. Perhaps he should have Rienfleche? Having Ballista in both 1x and 2 should be helpful too.

Great work so far!

[Nanami Touko]

Natalie should be in 1x (Healer + Dorcas Support). Rebecca only comes with a longbow in 1x (where's her silver? ). Wil needs a buff. Perhaps he should have Rienfleche? Having Ballista in both 1x and 2 should be helpful too.

Great work so far!

This doesn't sound like an error, this just sounds like you're saying "It's too haaaaard". Rebecca should have the same weapon she had previously, this is true, but having ballista in the chapters would make no sense. There was no indication that bandits were going to attack Pherae in 1x, it was just supposed to be a resupplying mission, so they wouldn't have had time to set up siege weaponry, nor would having it there already make much sense. And Raven's squad of fighters is supposed to be a small strike squad that gets in and gets out. Carrying around something as large and cumbersome as a ballista wouldn't make any sense.

And why would Wil, a small time archer from a small town get one of the most powerful and rare weapons in all of Elibe? Makes no sense to me o 3 o

And Natalie is probably too busy tending to the hurt soldiers inside of the castle to attend something that was supposed to be a simple resupply mission.

[Modern Major General]

I'm too lazy to check if this was mentioned before, but why does Hawkeye have a B support with Ephidel?

[Dunal]

This doesn't sound like an error, this just sounds like you're saying "It's too haaaaard".

Nope. The harder the better IMO. But all units should be useful to a good degree.

Rebecca should have the same weapon she had previously, this is true, but having ballista in the chapters would make no sense. There was no indication that bandits were going to attack Pherae in 1x, it was just supposed to be a resupplying mission, so they wouldn't have had time to set up siege weaponry, nor would having it there already make much sense. And Raven's squad of fighters is supposed to be a small strike squad that gets in and gets out. Carrying around something as large and cumbersome as a ballista wouldn't make any sense.

Then why not take over Ballista? In tale 2, there could be ballista scattered around, and in 1x, there could be an abandoned one near the south of the map (much like in FE7 CH20 where there is a couple ballista just lying around). TBH, ballista are fairly unrepresented in FE and often enemy only; no reason the same should be true for EN.

And why would Wil, a small time archer from a small town get one of the most powerful and rare weapons in all of Elibe? Makes no sense to me o 3 o

He fought in Eliwood's army. That could be reason enough. Perhaps Wil canonically used the Rienfleche in FE7 endgame, or/and Lyn demanded that he receive the bow as a trophy. I mean, it's not exactly a divine weapon. I'd argue that Pent using Forblaze is more of a stretch (not that I disagree with it or anything).

And Natalie is probably too busy tending to the hurt soldiers inside of the castle to attend something that was supposed to be a simple resupply mission.

Then she could be a reinforcement. If word gets around that bandits are attacking, it's very plausible.

Edited October 5, 2011 by DLuna

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

DLuna, your ideas seem like improvements and i do agree with just about all of them but the Rienfleche.

I haven't seen any legendary weapons(that bosses drop in the final chapter) in EN so i don't see why they should be in there period, let alone have Wil of all people get the Rienfleche.

[Nanami Touko]

Nope. The harder the better IMO. But all units should be useful to a good degree.

I find that all the units in 1x/2 are plenty useful, so I don't see the point of this.

Then why not take over Ballista? In tale 2, there could be ballista scattered around, and in 1x, there could be an abandoned one near the south of the map (much like in FE7 CH20 where there is a couple ballista just lying around). TBH, ballista are fairly unrepresented in FE and often enemy only; no reason the same should be true for EN.

Why would they be randomly scattered about? It's not normal for ballista to be set up in times of peace, and with a castle the size of the one Raven and pals are attacking, there wouldn't be much room for ballista. And again, why would ballista just be laying about near destroyed villages? Why would Eliwood put the ballista there? If you just want them for the sake of having them, that's not a very good reason to include them. And, have you played FE10? Ballista are used quite often on both sides in that game. They're only unrepresented in the GBA games, and for good reason; they barely do any damage/aren't very useful.

He fought in Eliwood's army. That could be reason enough. Perhaps Wil canonically used the Rienfleche in FE7 endgame, or/and Lyn demanded that he receive the bow as a trophy. I mean, it's not exactly a divine weapon. I'd argue that Pent using Forblaze is more of a stretch (not that I disagree with it or anything).

Then that's up for Arch to decide, since this isn't your canon, it's his. Hence why he gave Forblaze to Pent. And Wil left to fight with Raven afterwards, and since it was treated as a Pherae treasure, as shown in Tale 1, I doubt he'd get it so easily. And Lyn can demand all she wants, she's over in Sacae, and has no real word over Eliwood in Pherae, especially since Arch is setting Ninian X Eliwood as canon.

Then she could be a reinforcement. If word gets around that bandits are attacking, it's very plausible.

Sure, it's plausible, but the chapter isn't hard enough to really warrant needing a healer, and Natalie's not the most durable of people. I doubt Dorcas would want his wife, who could be killed at the drop of a hat, out fighting with him.

This entire conversation is pretty silly, 'cause it's a bunch of your personal opinion against mine, neither of which really matter against what Arch says since this is his canon, and his game. Now, d'you have any actual bugs to report?

Edited October 5, 2011 by seph1212

[Anouleth]

I dunno, I thought Wil was pretty shit back in the last version I played (I think V3). But that's more of a base stat issue. And I don't think that he needs Reinfleche!

And to be honest, if you go far enough down this line of logic, you end up putting every character in every chapter. I think that seven characters is a pretty fine number of units to have to use, and they don't all have to be amazing. Putting a ballistae in Tale 2 is a bad idea, I think. You can't really use it, because then Wil would fall behind all your other characters. Ballistae are generally a bad idea to expect the player to use for that reason: just because it effectively forces the player to choose between using the character on the frontlines and having the character use the ballista. And choices are bad.

[Arch]

I dunno, I thought Wil was pretty shit back in the last version I played (I think V3). But that's more of a base stat issue. And I don't think that he needs Reinfleche!

All of my base stats are taken from the FE7 stat growth averages (with some minor tweaks for balancing/class purposes). You can even check them with SF's pages, hahah (SF is my biggest reference). He definitely isn't getting the Reinfleche, though. The weapon is already established to be in Pherae's treasury, and there's only one. In Tale 2 he's got the Cleave Bow and gets a Killer Bow by talking to Raven. That's enough to allow him to keep up, since Geitz is best left using the Quick Axe (leaving Wil to cover bows).

I'd argue that Pent using Forblaze is more of a stretch (not that I disagree with it or anything).

Athos dies with the Forblaze in hand. Pent, his student, inherits it, uses it for a brief time, then ultimately reseals it when he leaves Athos' Sanctuary behind and returns to Reglay. I don't see how that's a stretch in any way. I'm altering Tale 4x so that Pent seals Forblaze before leaving for Reglay, he'll be getting a Fimbulvetr instead.

Also! I've been slowly working on eliminating bugs and glitches. I'm looking to have an updated (but still incomplete) patch out sometime tonight or tomorrow.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Arch

[Dunal]

I just think with Snipers in general, they need some unique utility to make them stand out. Perhaps the cleave bow could be buffed and Wil were given a Yew Longbow. Yet, Geitz could use them better (and has axes...), unless longbows were locked to snipers/troopers or something.

Athos dies with the Forblaze in hand. Pent, his student, inherits it, uses it for a brief time, then ultimately reseals it when he leaves Athos' Sanctuary behind and returns to Reglay. I don't see how that's a stretch in any way. I'm altering Tale 4x so that Pent seals Forblaze before leaving for Reglay, he'll be getting a Fimbulvetr instead.

Well, the only reason I said that was because I assumed it may have been sealed after the events of FE7 instead. But if that happens in 7x then it's just as well. I suppose if anyone in FE6 was capable or permitted to using Forblaze, then it makes sense, and either way it's a nice gameplay addition. Point being was the comparison to the non-divine weapon in question.

[Nanami Touko]

I just think with Snipers in general, they need some unique utility to make them stand out. Perhaps the cleave bow could be buffed and Wil were given a Yew Longbow. Yet, Geitz could use them better (and has axes...), unless longbows were locked to snipers/troopers or something.

They've gotten a critical bonus already. I'd say that's pretty helpful. And, I do actually agree that longbows being locked to snipers would be the best choice, IMO.

Edited October 6, 2011 by seph1212

[deranger]

long/yew bows being locked to snipers is really non canon, as (I assume) both were developed in Sacae, land of the nomads.

[Parrhesia]

The longbow is an infantry weapon. I'd say archers/snipers/possibly warriors only makes the most sense.

[Rambo M]

The weapon is already established to be in Pherae's treasury, and there's only one.

Speaking of that, what happened to it and the Rex Hasta in tale 1? And is there a particular reason for the Boots to be in one of the chests?

[deranger]

The longbow is an infantry weapon. I'd say archers/snipers/possibly warriors only makes the most sense.

Weren't early samurai mounted archers who used huge bows from horseback? It seems like you're thinking English long bows, which aren't what I'd think Elibian long bows are based on.

[The Blind Archer]

Weren't early samurai mounted archers who used huge bows from horseback? It seems like you're thinking English long bows, which aren't what I'd think Elibian long bows are based on.

An interesting theory, considering how European the character designs and other weapons in FE7 are, overall. Especially with only two or three curved swords out of Iforgethowmany swords there are total in Fe7.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Nomads are based off of the Mongols, not samurai.

Edited October 6, 2011 by The Blind Archer

[Nanami Touko]

On the issue of Wil and the Longbows:

[Anouleth]

An interesting theory, considering how European the character designs and other weapons in FE7 are, overall. Especially with only two or three curved swords out of Iforgethowmany swords there are total in Fe7.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Nomads are based off of the Mongols, not samurai.

nuh uh they're all super badass samurai from glorious nippon just like in my animes

Speaking of that, what happened to it and the Rex Hasta in tale 1?

I don't know, what did you do with it?

And is there a particular reason for the Boots to be in one of the chests?

Because that's what you do with valuable items. You put them in chests.

[deranger]

An interesting theory, considering how European the character designs and other weapons in FE7 are, overall. Especially with only two or three curved swords out of Iforgethowmany swords there are total in Fe7.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Nomads are based off of the Mongols, not samurai.

I'm not saying they're Japanese, I'm saying they're not necessarily English. Sacaens the ones most commonly seen with long bow, and the similarly designed short bows. And as you stated, Sacae isn't modeled on a European country. So the longbow isn't necessarily an infantry weapon in Elibe.

[Teapot]

A longbow is just a basic bow that's typically over 2 meters in length used to shoot arrows from a VERY long distance. It doesn't matter what the culture is. It does the SAME. DAMN. THING.

[The Blind Archer]

Alright. Let's have a look at the shape of FE7's Longbow sprite from in-game, shall we?

Grip and shelf are right in the center. This is common with an English longbow. You said that it could've been a Japanese longbow, which have their grips closer towards the bottom.

My argument is about the shape and style of the bow, not the application in-game. That said, for the sake of playing devil's advocate, a good longbow is usually pretty close to the height of the guy wielding it, which is where it got that name. I personally have never fired a bow from horseback, but I can assume just by looking at a longbow that the rider wouldn't be able to pull his arm back as far, thus not taking full advantage of the weapon's range.

... but what do I know? I play every game I have on easy mode~

Edited October 6, 2011 by The Blind Archer

[Thor Odinson]

And in terms of game balance, Nomad/Troopers have 7/8 move, more than footbows will ever have with boots. That is an advantage already since they can get to the enemies faster and have more versatility even if you're not a efficient player, due to more available blocks of positioning. Allowing footbows to have three-range gives them some level ground in their utility.

[Dank]

About my comment:

- First let me tell you that i play this game very often e and im a fan.

- Second that my english is shit.

About the patch you released:

- I played a little yesterday and i noticed that in Hector tale, a mage with a shaver frozens the rom.

- I noticed that all characters level up very fast e and very easy. I will suggest that enemies become buffed for consideration the exp they gave. Harder the better.

- About Raven's tale. I think that the difficult is alright and the uselfness of Will is little low, but he is not a character that important.

That's all

Continue with that nice hack.

[CorruptDruid]

About my comment:

- First let me tell you that i play this game very often e and im a fan.

- Second that my english is shit.

About the patch you released:

- I played a little yesterday and i noticed that in Hector tale, a mage with a shaver frozens the rom.

- I noticed that all characters level up very fast e and very easy. I will suggest that enemies become buffed for consideration the exp they gave. Harder the better.

- About Raven's tale. I think that the difficult is alright and the uselfness of Will is little low, but he is not a character that important.

That's all

Continue with that nice hack.

The Shaver issue was already addressed before he released the patch. Something about FEditor not liking the animation so it's being worked on.

Wil is pretty useful when he crits half the time with Killer Bow so he's not that bad, IMO Heath is less useful than Wil.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

well heath was never useful in FE7 so that makes sense

[Dark Sage]

well heath was never useful in FE7 so that makes sense

Wrong. I think it's a shame that intelligent and useful comments apparently escape your notice.

Anyway, I think that Wil should get a buff. Trent, you and Arch were clearly misrepresenting Anouleth. For the most part, Wil is kind of shit, but I think he can be salvaged somewhat. Nobody is saying he has to solo maps of course, but just a slight increase to his base strength and speed will probably do the trick.

I'm betting this'll get mocked in chat.