dondon151 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Bottom tier isn't ordered yet. Cord at the very bottom was kind of an afterthought. But we should probably start ordering them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 That explains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'll never understand why low tiers are being argued at this time. The Zag and Wolf stuff that happened earlier struck me as some attempt to save favorite characters from being dumped into the complete garbage tier but apparently it's not just them... Quick question, what's keeping Luke above Draug? I'm looking at the absolute bases and growths and... Luke only seems to win HP, STR and availability. Is Draug's SPD lead insignificant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I saw a problem, so I argued it. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'll never understand why low tiers are being argued at this time. The Zag and Wolf stuff that happened earlier struck me as some attempt to save favorite characters from being dumped into the complete garbage tier but apparently it's not just them... Quick question, what's keeping Luke above Draug? I'm looking at the absolute bases and growths and... Luke only seems to win HP, STR and availability. Is Draug's SPD lead insignificant? Luke is vital to the prologue, Draug isn't. It all depends on how much that is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'd just like to remind Colonel M that Maris is no longer located in Free Silvers, but was bumped up to near the top of Low, directly below Rody. Still a tier gap between her and Navarre, but I've acknowledged that she's not without merit. Yes I know that. I'm simply looking at lower tier ordeals. I just posted Malice for no reason really. :P Aside from that, a lot of the units inside the tiers as is will likely be bottomed (for example, Cord is going to be very hard to argue for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'll never understand why low tiers are being argued at this time. The Zag and Wolf stuff that happened earlier struck me as some attempt to save favorite characters from being dumped into the complete garbage tier but apparently it's not just them... Quick question, what's keeping Luke above Draug? I'm looking at the absolute bases and growths and... Luke only seems to win HP, STR and availability. Is Draug's SPD lead insignificant? Luke has P-3 through P-6 to gain levels. Plus Draug sucks in P-7 (doubled by Armors I believe, quite sad, what will his parents think) and isn't turning any heads in P-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Deadly Sins Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'd just like to say that I will never be in favor of wasting time trying to figure out which unit is "less garbage" than another horrid unusable unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 The ONLY thing I see he's got going for him is that since he is essentially rankless that he can do whatever the hell he wants. Problem is, he is purely future in mind unit, because his earlygame BLOWS. YET, he still has another problem, that being the classes he really wants to be he can't function as due to bad durability (worse than base Cecile as a cavalier bad), or he sucks at everything else. Even his growths suck. His only good growth is speed, since he's nearly beaten out on everything else by other units. Only use I can see for him is something like Archer or Hunter. Even then we're talking about a guy who loses bases to Gordon while losing out to Warren simply because Warren has actual ranks (though Gordon's got rank too). I highly doubt he's worth the effort, since he's Warren with a worse start but speed at the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'd just like to say that I will never be in favor of wasting time trying to figure out which unit is "less garbage" than another horrid unusable unit. Yes, but that is what others are for. I don't 100% disagree with you; trying to find out which one is less worse isn't exactly something I find horribly appealing, but nevertheless when nothing else is going anywhere it isn't bad to talk about from time to time. Higher tiers should be hammered out first anyway, I 100% agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 The ONLY thing I see he's got going for him is that since he is essentially rankless that he can do whatever the hell he wants. Problem is, he is purely future in mind unit, because his earlygame BLOWS. YET, he still has another problem, that being the classes he really wants to be he can't function as due to bad durability (worse than base Cecile as a cavalier bad), or he sucks at everything else. Even his growths suck. His only good growth is speed, since he's nearly beaten out on everything else by other units. Only use I can see for him is something like Archer or Hunter. Even then we're talking about a guy who loses bases to Gordon while losing out to Warren simply because Warren has actual ranks (though Gordon's got rank too). I highly doubt he's worth the effort, since he's Warren with a worse start but speed at the finish. That isn't a good thing. Everybody who can change classes can say that. You're basically giving him credit for having ranks that everybody in the game can also have if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 That isn't a good thing. Everybody who can change classes can say that. You're basically giving him credit for having ranks that everybody in the game can also have if they want to. Precisely. So regardless, i see him being pretty bottom tier. Possibly below Est, since while she will most likely be used over Cain in P-8, she's not exactly that much worse than him and it's opportunity she can have of which Cord has absolutely none to call his own. If that could be countered with "well, we're always going to use Cain there anyways", I still thing he's gonna be around Est level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Samto and Caesar are virtually the same growth-wise, right? Caesar has pretty much universally better bases, and he's not weighed down by Steel Swords, for whatever that's worth It's apparently worth nothing, because IS removed weapon weight from FE12. No, seriously. Go check the main site. Vincent didn't forget. Wt doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It's apparently worth nothing, because IS removed weapon weight from FE12. No, seriously. Go check the main site. Vincent didn't forget. Wt doesn't exist. Why do I feel like you sound so butthurt over this fact? I think the bigger deal about this is why bring it up in the first place? Unless he can show what exactly it is that seperates him so greatly from Sammy in the first place, I don't see the point. It's not like he's THAT much better. The problem here is that being better than Sammy is like saying I'm better than utter garbage. Unless he's significantly stronger, I don't see why I should care that much about Ceasar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It's apparently worth nothing, because IS removed weapon weight from FE12. No, seriously. Go check the main site. Vincent didn't forget. Wt doesn't exist. Forgot that. I think the bigger deal about this is why bring it up in the first place? Unless he can show what exactly it is that seperates him so greatly from Sammy in the first place, I don't see the point. It's not like he's THAT much better. The problem here is that being better than Sammy is like saying I'm better than utter garbage. Unless he's significantly stronger, I don't see why I should care that much about Ceasar. Characters not being high tier suddenly means they don't exist and arguing anything about them is an alien concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) What are Minerva's issues/reasons for mid tier? She just looks like she could potentially be higher on the tier list than where she is. Stat boosters could knock her up a bit further when we get into that discussion sometime down the road. Specifically a speedwing. Edited July 31, 2010 by Mr. Francis York Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Characters not being high tier suddenly means they don't exist and arguing anything about them is an alien concept. No, it means that people do not want to argue how some noobshit loser is better than some other noobshit loser, when at the end of the day, both noobshit losers are worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Guess what? I do, and I am. Nobody's forcing you to argue a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 What are Minerva's issues/reasons for mid tier? She just looks like she could potentially be higher on the tier list than where she is. Stat boosters could knock her up a bit further when we get into that discussion sometime down the road. Specifically a speedwing. Well, I really wish I knew class growth setups, but that'll have to wait. Anyway, glancing at Minerva we have... 8 base Spd, which isn't bad. Sniper gives her 17 Spd, which is enough with the +2 Spd Star Orb for doubling Bishops and Mages in Chapter 10. She looks okay in growthland, but gotta say that 25% Spd growth and her being a promoted unit might be a little eck. I would be willing to try her out, though I have too many cool selections for my team atm. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgamecat Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Well, I really wish I knew class growth setups, but that'll have to wait. Anyway, glancing at Minerva we have... 8 base Spd, which isn't bad. Sniper gives her 17 Spd, which is enough with the +2 Spd Star Orb for doubling Bishops and Mages in Chapter 10. She looks okay in growthland, but gotta say that 25% Spd growth and her being a promoted unit might be a little eck. I would be willing to try her out, though I have too many cool selections for my team atm. :3 You may find these links helpful: Base + class growths for everyone: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://knetfe.nobody.jp/ikusei/menu.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhh2rivHelNT55BzrcGQDFN-oEzIvg Predicted growths for A, B, and C classes. This doesn't have predicted growths for male class limits removed, unfortunately. http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wiki.gamerp.jp/fe/data/272.html&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhiMwm4kv5pRwtTUsDocgI6Vu7wk-Q http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wiki.gamerp.jp/fe/data/273.html&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhj7JrjcKW9-_vVqmyMbSdMuwOvdNg http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://wiki.gamerp.jp/fe/data/274.html&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhhaob-wxN9VD0GEX2P55cG7JUmhsw According to the predicted growths, Minerva doesn't cap any stat in any of her classes, and generally just sucks. I just got Est and I am going to try leveling her, so help me god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Unless I'm reading this chart wrong, this says that she caps Spd as a DracoKnight and is a point off from Swordmaster. With a Speedwing and the .80 banked, she can cap Spd as a Sniper as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgamecat Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Unless I'm reading this chart wrong, this says that she caps Spd as a DracoKnight and is a point off from Swordmaster. With a Speedwing and the .80 banked, she can cap Spd as a Sniper as well. hmm you're right, I think they forgot to bold and color red her SPD stat there. I just glanced at it myself. As long as she can recruit the bishop in the final chapter with her base stats, I'm not concerned at all with using her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I think she's at least decent. A Axes, so that means she has use with Hammer as a DracoKnight, then C Lances for auto-Dragonpike. You could slap the Arms Scroll for Silver Lance too, though not necessary of course. At base, she looks useful. Hm, maybe I'll try her out after all. I am an insane person at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgamecat Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I think she's at least decent. A Axes, so that means she has use with Hammer as a DracoKnight, then C Lances for auto-Dragonpike. You could slap the Arms Scroll for Silver Lance too, though not necessary of course. At base, she looks useful. Hm, maybe I'll try her out after all. I am an insane person at heart. hmm.. well here's my strategy for leveling up Est. arms scroll, angelic robe, star orb, silver spear.. let her come in and stab things for XP. maybe it'll work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 hmm.. well here's my strategy for leveling up Est. arms scroll, angelic robe, star orb, silver spear.. let her come in and stab things for XP. maybe it'll work That's... a lot to ask for. Arms Scroll basically allows a Sniper auto-Silver Bows. Angelic Robe gives +7 to a unit's durability and it cna help units like Magi or prepromotes that have mediocre HP (Sirius comes to mind). Star Orb... I dunno, I'd have to look at Chapter 15's enemies on but... yeah.... It's your playthrough, so it's your decision. Just really don't see the merit to her at the end of the day, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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