H3 (Lunatic) Tier List

[Paperblade]

He wanted Draug as Hunter so that he had a good bow user, since Rody's stuck with Archer.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Paperblade

[Kaplan]

He wanted Draug as Hunter so that he had a good bow user, since Rody's stuck with Archer.

Sorry if this is going off topic too much but why is archer inferior to hunter?

[Parrhesia]

Sorry if this is going off topic too much but why is archer inferior to hunter?

Inexplicably low movement, bad bases.

[Deliriyum]

Sorry if this is going off topic too much but why is archer inferior to hunter?

movement, bases. Sniper is better than Horseman though.

[Colonel M]

It depends on who we're talking about. For example, Horseman isn't bad for someone like Ogma since he has a starting Sword rank. It's also -1 Spd behind Sniper this time, so the +2 in Mov for -1 Spd doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff in certain instances. If you have neither a Sword nor Bow rank, Sniper is definitely better.

[Deliriyum]

It depends on who we're talking about. For example, Horseman isn't bad for someone like Ogma since he has a starting Sword rank. It's also -1 Spd behind Sniper this time, so the +2 in Mov for -1 Spd doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff in certain instances. If you have neither a Sword nor Bow rank, Sniper is definitely better.

ohh...that is, if you don't care about the +4 hp, +1 str, +2 skl, +1 def that Sniper offers on top of the +1 def you mentioned. That is a big tradeoff for 2 mov and sword usage.

[Paperblade]

Horseman also has a 30 speed cap, meaning that on a unit with a high speed growth it will be able to double a few guys that Sniper can't.

[Deliriyum]

Horseman also has a 30 speed cap, meaning that on a unit with a high speed growth it will be able to double a few guys that Sniper can't.

Falcoknights, which should be OHKO'd anyway, and Heroes.

[Paperblade]

Falcoknights, which should be OHKO'd anyway, and Heroes.

And Chapter 20 Snipers.

And some Berserkers.

And some Fire Dragons.

9 Move + Bows also means you can outrange Meteor/Swarm guys while also being a class that's fast enough to not get doubled by SMs.

[Deliriyum]

And Chapter 20 Snipers.

And some Berserkers.

And some Fire Dragons.

9 Move + Bows also means you can outrange Meteor/Swarm guys while also being a class that's fast enough to not get doubled by SMs.

Except they aren't necessarily going to reach their cap. I'll give that Horseman is better for the high performance people that can get their stats up there, but every everybody else, Sniper is the way to go.

Something else I noticed, Dark mage/Sorcerer is basically obsolete with mixed class sets.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Core

[grandjackal]

Consider this as something that might be something you guys would totally expect from me, but...

...How many of you would give an Arms Scroll to Jake for his bows?

[Rewjeo]

Well, with his +75 bow WEXP gives him B as a Sniper before the Arms Scroll, meaning he can use Parthia and OHKO every flying dragon in the game. The one question now is is it worth giving him Parthia and an Arms Scroll? And if it is, that opens the door for a bunch of other units as well. That gets Jake, Beck, Macellan, Sheema, Sedgar, Wolf, and Ymir on top of Jeorge and promoted Castor, Gordin, and Ryan (as unlikely as them promoting is) all with that ability. Oh, wait, Merric and Etzel as well as any other magic user who gets Excalibur, at least for a little bit.

Edit: Oh, Ellerean can with an Arms Scroll. And is Wendell capable of OHKOing with Excalibur?

Edit 2: Promoted Norne, as well. Again, as unlikely as it is.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Slize

[grandjackal]

Well, with his +75 bow WEXP gives him B as a Sniper before the Arms Scroll, meaning he can use Parthia and OHKO every flying dragon in the game. The one question now is is it worth giving him Parthia and an Arms Scroll?

105% Speed Growth. 4 levels, he can switch to swordmaster and start doubling ice dragons with Wyrmslayer. Considering 2 arenas the fact that dragons love to bleed EXP, I don't think this sounds unreasonable. Another 3, he's got 24 AS to double guys in the mainland.

Best of all? Working these two ranks, getting all this speed, you could eventually switch him to Horseman, since with his growths he's probably hte only person who's ever gonna make use of the Horsemen caps while maintaining weapon rank with A Bows and C rank for Wyrmslayers (well, if he goes from C to halfway through B while he's in his swordmaster phase).

And if it is, that opens the door for a bunch of other units as well. That gets Jake, Beck, Macellan, Sheema, Sedgar, Wolf, and Ymir on top of Jeorge and promoted Castor, Gordin, and Ryan (as unlikely as them promoting is) all with that ability.

Beck would just be an inferior Jake who comes later so hte scroll is put to less use, lol Mac/Sheema/Sedgar/Wolf/Ymir, George doesn't need one since he already HAS A rank, I don't have to waste a master scroll on those last 3 on top of it, along with the fact that I haven't been needing to feed EXP to Jake this entire time. Jake can get you returns pretty quick.

Oh, wait, Merric and Etzel as well as any other magic user who gets Excalibur, at least for a little bit.

Edit: Oh, Ellerean can with an Arms Scroll. And is Wendell capable of OHKOing with Excalibur?

I think even Etzel needs Capricorn, and besides. What is the point of having more than 1 or 2 Excalibur users?

Also, you could just hand Ellerean a Master Seal instead.

Edit 2: Promoted Norne, as well. Again, as unlikely as it is.

Wouldn't be surprised if Jake smokes her too.

[arvilino]

Jake has the advantage of an extremely high speed growth over those characters. It's extremely likely that he can reach 30 speed as any class with that cap(most usefully Horseman) by level 20 and also catch up in terms of speed very quickly so he doesn't require the Parthia to have any use. Whereas the other units listed either come too late or are unlikely to get the speed to survive the later chapters and losing all use once the Parthia breaks.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Better yet: Who other than Jake is potentially using that Arms Scroll? He benefits a lot from being able to get free EXP from oneshotting Dracos and Flying Dragons with Parthia, and I'm not really seeing where an Arms Scroll would be a huge loss from any other unit.

Oh, and Jake is the only character I'm willing to hear this argument for. Dolph, Mac, Sheema, Beck, Zagwolf can all suck it.

[fatgamecat]

I'd rather see wyrm XP go mostly to Merric and any bow user I've raised from the ground up (hunter Rory or hunter Draug). I know Hunter Draug isn't the best choice but I don't have male class limits removed on my first run. Either choice of Hunter Rory or Draug will have stats towering over Jakes terrible bases on average, and they'll be able to one shot wyrms with a silver bow. Forget about wasting Parthia shots on scrubby Ch 11-13 wyrms. You want to save the A weapons for the last few chapters where waves of capped stat enemies are eager slaughter your army. Wanting to use Jake just seems like trying to justify fan favoritism to me.

[Don Draper]

How come you keep suggesting Hunter Rory when Hunter Ryan....

1) Is Much much easier to get exp for in the prologue due to not taking counters

2) Will have C Bows compared to Rody's E Bows

3) Beats or ties every growth of Rody's except for speed (20/1 Ryan has 19 AS so he's not exactly lacking in that department)

Hunter Ryan just seems like a far superior choice then Hunter Rody.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Ari Gold

[grandjackal]

I'd rather see wyrm XP go mostly to Merric and any bow user I've raised from the ground up (hunter Rory or hunter Draug). I know Hunter Draug isn't the best choice but I don't have male class limits removed on my first run. Either choice of Hunter Rory or Draug will have stats towering over Jakes terrible bases on average, and they'll be able to one shot wyrms with a silver bow. Forget about wasting Parthia shots on scrubby Ch 11-13 wyrms. You want to save the A weapons for the last few chapters where waves of capped stat enemies are eager slaughter your army. Wanting to use Jake just seems like trying to justify fan favoritism to me.

I'm looking up stats right now for the "scrubby" flying dragons, and from the looks of it they have 46 HP. 12 Str with a steel bow had done enough damage that it reduced it down to 15 HP, so a silver bow would have still failed to OHKO it by 1 HP. Well, let's see. I could give him the Taurus orb and the scroll and he would be able to do just fine with silver, so you would be right. Letting him have Parthia would be a waste. Mainly because it looks like he doesn't even need it. In fact, just change him to sniper, give him Leo+Taurus, toss him a silver. Doesn't even need the scroll anymore, just needs shards. I could EVEN give him an Energy Drop, now he just wants Taurus.

So hey, what's more favoritism? Tossing a barely contested for stat booster his way with a barely wanted Gem (since +1 Str I would hardly think makes the difference), or drowning Draug and/or Ryan in kill EXP I could have been feeding to top tier characters the whole time on top of Master Seals?

Also lol, Hunter Roddy.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[fatgamecat]

Not worth discussing anything with someone who says dismissive garbage like 'lol, X' and makes illogical arguments like 'XP, arms scrolls, and star shards are all free or barely contested and nobody wants them but my favorite character!' You're clearly not looking to have a logical discussion.

As for Rody, his hunter stats are better than hunter Draug, and I'd rather work out of E bows and be able to double reliably.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

As for Rody, his hunter stats are better than hunter Draug, and I'd rather work out of E bows and be able to double reliably.

... I'm looking at them right now and can't see how such a comment can exist... the only conclusions I can draw from this...

1. You're trolling. You've already mentioned your dislike of tier lists so posting something like just to provoke negative reaction from others isn't an impossibility.

2. You're looking only at their growths and neglecting the bases and/or factoring an absurd amount of Prologue level ups on Rody.

3. Lack of sleep, intoxicated or something's affecting your capability to make sense because the quoted post has absolutely none.

I suggest you try and make some sense or cease this.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Sirius

[fatgamecat]

Rody has +30 HP, +10 STR, +5 SKL, +5 SPD, and +20 LCK as a hunter compared to Draug. On average he'll have +4 SPD by level 6 (Draugs level), which puts him at -1 SPD compared to Draug, and his HP and STR will be higher than draugs on average. I intended to ditch him and didn't take him to most prologue chapters and he still reached lv 6 by the end of Ch 2 in my run, which is not "absurd". I suppose people who haven't played lunatic mode might make the mistake of assuming that the enemy count is the same as the lower difficulty modes. Now once you get into the later chapters and your party solidifies, it's much harder to justify giving XP to new recruits, but half of your party in the first 3 chapters are people you'll probably end up ditching anyway (Cecil, Ryan, Gordin, Aran, Warden, Cord, Linde, Bord, etc.) so there really isn't that much competition for XP given the large numbers of enemies thrown at you.

But instead of trying to refute what I said, you attack me with some disturbingly detailed and wrong accusations and threats while ignoring the poster making clearly illogical statements like 'everything is free or barely contested for my favorite unit'! Classy. Well I'm done trying to argue with people who haven't even played through most or any of Lunatic mode. Too much misunderstanding, theorycrafting, and delusion.

[dondon151]

Really? Rody reached level 2 on my prologue run.

[fatgamecat]

Really? Rody reached level 2 on my prologue run.

Yeah I've done prologue runs where both Luke and Rody were still level 1. Doesn't mean it's a good idea. They should still get at least a few levels so they aren't one shot by Ch 1 bandits.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Rody has +30 HP, +10 STR, +5 SKL, +5 SPD, and +20 LCK as a hunter compared to Draug. On average he'll have +4 SPD by level 6 (Draugs level), which puts him at -1 SPD compared to Draug, and his HP and STR will be higher than draugs on average. I intended to ditch him and didn't take him to most prologue chapters and he still reached lv 6 by the end of Ch 2 in my run, which is not "absurd".

Hmm, looks like number 2's the closest. By chapter 1 my Rody was level 2 or close to leveling up to that, I forget which though he's 2.15 on the chapter 4 save I've kept. It's +20% HP growth difference btw and that +5% SPD growth means that on average and assuming they're always at equal levels, Rody will slightly beat Draug in SPD by lategame at which point they've probably capped SPD or it won't make a difference in who doubles and who isn't doubled. Early on though, the SPD lead is more likely to be the difference between who doubles and who doesn't since it'll take Draug a couple level ups to reach the SPD necessary to double enemeis meaning Draug would be likely to do about twice as much damage as Rody for a good while plus didn't require use in the prologue like Rody did.

I suppose people who haven't played lunatic mode might make the mistake of assuming that the enemy count is the same as the lower difficulty modes.

I've only played up to chapter 4 but I can access any chapter I want in a minute or 2 so I'm already well aware of this as well as the chapters you've yet to play since apparently you finished chapter 17.

Now once you get into the later chapters and your party solidifies, it's much harder to justify giving XP to new recruits, but half of your party in the first 3 chapters are people you'll probably end up ditching anyway (Cecil, Ryan, Gordin, Aran, Warden, Cord, Linde, Bord, etc.) so there really isn't that much competition for XP given the large numbers of enemies thrown at you.

True. Though you forgot to list Rody under the people you're likely to ditch. Draug can be ditched too but if there's a decision to be made between using Rody or Draug, the latter requires less effort to be placed on your team while Rody takes EXP from MU and Luke in the prologue for example.

But instead of trying to refute what I said

What was there to refute? The only thing I brought attention to was your comment

As for Rody, his hunter stats are better than hunter Draug

Which had absolutely no explanation whatsoever as to why this statement is true when it contradicts what the base stats page show and assumes Rody always at the level you had in mind. If anything, YOU had to explain that assertion since you were asked

How come you keep suggesting Hunter Rory when Hunter Ryan....

That bolded statement of yours lacked detail and it only brought more questions.

you attack me with some disturbingly detailed and wrong accusations and threats

Right, it's definitely not the fact that your statement was questionable why I posted the blunt conclusions I drew from it. It's totally just me being dick and pretending to avoid potential flaming as an excuse to do it. That was sarcasm for those of you that might miss it.

while ignoring the poster making clearly illogical statements like 'everything is free or barely contested for my favorite unit'!

Or simply choosing not to argue against those due to despising resource allocation related arguments as well as the possibility of those statements being ripped to shreds by someone that actually gives a damn enough to do it.

Well I'm done trying to argue with people who haven't even played through most or any of Lunatic mode. Too much misunderstanding, theorycrafting, and delusion.

Well I'm done trying to argue with someone who likes to assume he's right and the those who argue against him don't know anything. This is likely to go nowhere so I won't continue with this. I simply had to step in and say what I said, that's all.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Sirius

[nflchamp]

Rody has +30 HP, +10 STR, +5 SKL, +5 SPD, and +20 LCK as a hunter compared to Draug. On average he'll have +4 SPD by level 6 (Draugs level), which puts him at -1 SPD compared to Draug, and his HP and STR will be higher than draugs on average. I intended to ditch him and didn't take him to most prologue chapters and he still reached lv 6 by the end of Ch 2 in my run, which is not "absurd". I suppose people who haven't played lunatic mode might make the mistake of assuming that the enemy count is the same as the lower difficulty modes. Now once you get into the later chapters and your party solidifies, it's much harder to justify giving XP to new recruits, but half of your party in the first 3 chapters are people you'll probably end up ditching anyway (Cecil, Ryan, Gordin, Aran, Warden, Cord, Linde, Bord, etc.) so there really isn't that much competition for XP given the large numbers of enemies thrown at you.

But instead of trying to refute what I said, you attack me with some disturbingly detailed and wrong accusations and threats while ignoring the poster making clearly illogical statements like 'everything is free or barely contested for my favorite unit'! Classy. Well I'm done trying to argue with people who haven't even played through most or any of Lunatic mode. Too much misunderstanding, theorycrafting, and delusion.

6/0 Hunter!Rody (all levels in Cav from Prolouge)

24HP/9.5STR/0MAG/10SKL/9SPD/8LCK/4DEF/.25RES

6/0 Hunter!Draug (aka Base)

22HP/10STR/0MAG/7SKL/11SPD/3LCK/3DEF/0RES

You'll notice how it'll be 10 levels before average Rody is beating Draug by even .5 STR and he'll never catch up in SPD (until they cap). You'd have to make some pretty convincing argument about Rody's HP/SKL/LCK leads if you're going to say anything about Hunter!Rody being better than Hunter!Draug. You really can't just throw that out there.

Then throw in the fact that Rody has to get to level 6 in Prolouge. Things aren't looking good for you assertion.