Fans of Micaiah, Convince Me

[Loki Laufeyson]

Maybe I like Eirika more because I feel sorry for her she's just so ditzy and stupid. Lyn was too boring like they tried to hard to make her cool. I still like Lyn don't get me wrong Out of the lords the most interesting ones are Ike and Sigurd imo although I don't really like Ike in RD he's just as dull as another.

BTW just to clear it up I didn't mean to say Micaiah was a Mary Sue, I only think she has many traits on her similar to a Mary Sue.

On the other hand Ike is probably the Sue/Stue lord.

Some people dont like that Ike hijacks the story. Actually, perhaps if he didnt, we'd get some interesting insight on Micaiah's character that would have helped gain more fans (Including me). Pleased as i was to be playing as the old gang again, i was a little miffed we didnt get more DB stuff. I wanted to go straight back to my guys i was training in part 1, ya know! Ehh cant have everything i guess. They did try really hard to get all sides of the story on this game but DB was left out in the cold a bit. (So was Crimea) :(

I love Eirika, but she is a bit dull in personality. I love Lyn's character, actually. I think she's neat. Im not the biggest fan of hers as a unit though. (Curse you gaping hole that should be defense!!) I love how Lyn and Hector interacted during the story. Ike doesnt have a lot of character growth in RD compared to PoR. There are the instances in endgame where you unlock his memory scene and the BK stuff but other than that, hes just Ike. Oh well.

[RNG Princess]

Some people dont like that Ike hijacks the story. Actually, perhaps if he didnt, we'd get some interesting insight on Micaiah's character that would have helped gain more fans (Including me). Pleased as i was to be playing as the old gang again, i was a little miffed we didnt get more DB stuff. I wanted to go straight back to my guys i was training in part 1, ya know! Ehh cant have everything i guess. They did try really hard to get all sides of the story on this game but DB was left out in the cold a bit. (So was Crimea) :(

I love Eirika, but she is a bit dull in personality. I love Lyn's character, actually. I think she's neat. Im not the biggest fan of hers as a unit though. (Curse you gaping hole that should be defense!!) I love how Lyn and Hector interacted during the story. Ike doesnt have a lot of character growth in RD compared to PoR. There are the instances in endgame where you unlock his memory scene and the BK stuff but other than that, hes just Ike. Oh well.

I know on my first playthrough i felt weird playing Part 2 because i wanted to see more of part1 guys, and after part 2 finished I was like WTH. Part 3 used to bore me to tears because I had gotten tired of the Greil Mercs. Since I wanted to be with the new gang, thats why I have a bigger affinity with DB <3 (and why I like them more).

Edited September 16, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

I know on my first playthrough i felt weird playing Part 2 because i wanted to see more of part1 guys, and after part 2 finished I was like WTH. Part 3 used to bore me to tears because I had gotten tired of the Greil Mercs. Since I wanted to be with the new gang, thats why I have a bigger affinity with DB <3 (and why I like them more).

Meh. I'm happy Mia is finally pretty good and while Titania is also rather good at least she's not gamebreaking good anymore. I'm disappointed about Mist's suckiness, though, and with Florete being str based and targeting def. Stupid I.S. At least there is time in PoR to make Mist able to fight half-decently with physical weapons and pretty well with SS and RS.

I suppose I could pull an Interceptor and abuse the flying lavabombs in 3-8 to get Mist up to stuff for a few chapters, but I'm not really the type that is willing to do that. Though a 20/20/1+ Laura in 1-5 and a --/20/1+ Mist in 3-10 would be kinda fun.

[RNG Princess]

Meh. I'm happy Mia is finally pretty good and while Titania is also rather good at least she's not gamebreaking good anymore. I'm disappointed about Mist's suckiness, though, and with Florete being str based and targeting def. Stupid I.S. At least there is time in PoR to make Mist able to fight half-decently with physical weapons and pretty well with SS and RS.

I suppose I could pull an Interceptor and abuse the flying lavabombs in 3-8 to get Mist up to stuff for a few chapters, but I'm not really the type that is willing to do that. Though a 20/20/1+ Laura in 1-5 and a --/20/1+ Mist in 3-10 would be kinda fun.

Idk why they removed magical swords or better worded why they didn't add them. I felt like they should have kept the old growths instead because it is the same characters unless 3 years changed them that much, Mordecai would have loved his old growths :3 and Tanith's reinforcement skill would have made her position interesting ^_^.

I am curious though how much characters would change in this tier lift if they had their older growths, I wonder if Astrid would change much or Soren. I get the feeling Mordy would be considered High or Top tier.

I should learn how to hack and make their growths to their PoR original :3 I wouldn't mind another playthrough.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'm disappointed about Mist's suckiness, though, and with Florete being str based and targeting def. Stupid I.S

Totally! I was a sad panda about that. I loved how Mist could be like a mini paladin with MAGIC SWORDS in PoR. Not to mention my sadness about Oscar. Where did his awesome go? :(

I know on my first playthrough i felt weird playing Part 2 because i wanted to see more of part1 guys, and after part 2 finished I was like WTH. Part 3 used to bore me to tears because I had gotten tired of the Greil Mercs. Since I wanted to be with the new gang, thats why I have a bigger affinity with DB <3 (and why I like them more).

Ha! Yeah. I was hoping Part 3 would totally give us some DB backstory as well as training time. Sure, it was cool that you could steal Jill and Zihark away from the DB (and i do that sometimes if i want to really use those characters) but it hurts the DB too much to do that. :(

Tanith's reinforcement skill would have made her position interesting

AND BROKEN!!! Holy crap...

Edited September 16, 2010 by Florina

[EnzanIjuuin]

...This is getting out of hand. I really don't wish to see others at each others throats because you can't agree to disagree about liking different characters. And a lot of off-topic stuff are coming up too...

Right now, the biggest point of the DB VS Greil Mercenaries I'd like to point out is that DB just doesn't get enough love from the creators. They seem only mildly interesting because the creators just never gave them enough screen time to show off their personalities. Unlike the Greil Mercenaries, who already had a whole game to them, the DB only get a couple of scenes, and apart from Micaiah and Sothe, none of them even appear much after the first part.

A lot of the fans who complain about DB and prefer the GMs probably do so because they are already attached to the previous characters, who had a whole game to gain the love of them, and also because there just wasn't enough story to make the DBs very appealing. Of course, the DB fans who DID get interested by those few scenes would disagree, but everyone's different that way.

With Micaiah, I'd say it's probably the same thing. Having read through the Japanese script by now, I think she could have been a lot more interesting if they'd given her space to flesh out. She is not a BAD character, she just wasn't given enough opportunity to show that she isn't a BORING character. There are times when she was pretty amusing, like during certain base conversations, but well... Sometimes I feel like she isn't quite a believable character.

Mary Sues have become so wide in variety that one simply cannot define a Mary Sue so easily. I agree to a certain extent that Micaiah has Sue-ish traits, but then again, so does nearly every other character in the story. The biggest problem with Mary Sues is not the colour of their hair or the superpowers they own; rather, it's the fact that they are simply too good/too bad/too impossible to be true.

And I think that with Micaiah, she's probably fluttering around and back and forth across that line.

[Acacia Sgt]

Tanith's reinforcement skill would have made her position interesting ^_^.

Not really. It would become useless after 3-E due to the whole 'turning to stone' deal, and having a couple of generic NPCs be spared from it for the skill to still be used would be, well, not sure about it, as it is possible, although...

Anyway, leaving only 3-11 and 3-E to use it... yeah, makes more sense to just remove it like so.

[Loki Laufeyson]

And I think that with Micaiah, she's probably fluttering around and back and forth across that line.

I agree with that. In Part 1, she was pretty believable and not bad story wise. Its in part 3 (near the end) and part 4, that gets a bit too fuzzy for my tastes. All the revelations in endgame just...yeah. I couldnt really believe her character too much after that for reasons i already stated.

Not really. It would become useless after 3-E due to the whole 'turning to stone' deal, and having a couple of generic NPCs be spared from it for the skill to still be used would be, well, not sure about it, as it is possible, although...

Hey, never thought of that. I suppose that make sense. But still, Reinforcement would have been pretty awesome!

[Parrhesia]

(Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a powerful main character. Many good fantasy books and games have characters with extraordinary powers. It would be boring to follow a talentless nobody around, after all.)

I should know. I tried to write one. Seven chapters in and I realised that the whiny hanger-on who was somehow integral to saving pretty much everything was...kinda annoying. And I'd already killed the most interesting character.

Ah, the age of twelve. A more innocent time, where bad writing can be put off as practice~

As for Miciiahaht, while my knowledge of the game is ... virtually nonexistant, she hardly seems like a Sue. Sure, she's powerful, likes birds and has white hair for some reason. But a Sue is more than just a list. Good things must always inexplicably happen to them, emphasis on 'inexplicable', and it seems there are explanations in places, usually. She's drunkenly staggering around the line because she thinks it's cool, but I don't think she actually faceplants across.

[eclipse]

As a character: Ummm. . .she's a snappy dresser? I liked her best when she was fighting independently. Once the bigger political game happened. . .yeah. . .

I would've loved to see more of the DB. Edward was shaping up to be amusing, Leo was an interesting contrast to Edward, Nolan looked to break the "stupid fighter" mold (and that is impressive), and Laura. . .oh, Laura, why did you have to be so ditzy? Aran could've showcased more of his high opinion of himself (have the Greil Mercenaries send him packing to see what I mean), and I would've welcomed it. Hell, even Meg and Fiona could've gotten a little more character.

As a unit: Armors traditionally aren't fond of mages, and Thani gives them all the more reason to hate magic. Thani-bomb a huge unit into oblivion to see what I mean. She's also the source of a free Purge, and Sacrifice is a resource-free way of gaining experience. Combine that with an auto-Sothe support, and the fact that she's on one of the better affinities (Dark), AND she's free to ditch Sothe's support for someone better, and it's plenty possible for her to end up as quite the terror. Once she maxes Magic, Resistance, and maybe Luck and Skill, let the BEXP take care of her awful Speed.

[Anouleth]

Mary Sues have become so wide in variety that one simply cannot define a Mary Sue so easily. I agree to a certain extent that Micaiah has Sue-ish traits, but then again, so does nearly every other character in the story. The biggest problem with Mary Sues is not the colour of their hair or the superpowers they own; rather, it's the fact that they are simply too good/too bad/too impossible to be true.

... I really don't agree with that. Micaiah frequently makes mistakes and has to make difficult moral decisions, which instantly makes her far more interesting than Ike. In fact, she's probably the only main character in FE that has characters getting recruited away from her. Not counting FE9 Jill because she can be recruited back.

[EnzanIjuuin]

... I really don't agree with that. Micaiah frequently makes mistakes and has to make difficult moral decisions, which instantly makes her far more interesting than Ike. In fact, she's probably the only main character in FE that has characters getting recruited away from her. Not counting FE9 Jill because she can be recruited back.

I never said anything about Micaiah being perfect and all. I didn't pronounce her a Mary Sue either. Nor did I mention Ike. All I said is that she has Sue-ish traits, and for that matter, so does Ike, and Soren, and twenty thousand other characters out there. What makes a character interesting to you may not be interesting to others. Getting characters recruited away from her doesn't actually mean anything in this particular context, it just means gameplay is a little more unique this time round, but that has nothing to do with Micaiah's personality.

-----

So I've looked through all the posts, but thus far nobody has said anything really special about Micaiah. My opinion of her *has* changed quite a bit, though, thanks to a few of the stronger points here, as well as going to look through the original Japanese script Good grief, they change so much in translations. In any case, she's no longer a 'boring' character, but at the same time, she's not really very 'special', either.

[Pitbuller26]

Then what the hell are you asking for? Do you want compromising pictures of Micaiah to prove she isn't all saintly? I'm surprised you can like Ike as he's nothing but cardboard with a sour expression 24/7.

[Interceptor]

Im not gonna get into a "whats a Mary Sue" debate but the signs are there. Character with an odd color (in universe) of hair, has special powers no one else really has, everyone loves her, etc and so forth. The way she found out she was related to the Apostle really bothered me and reeked of Mary Sue. Same with the Galdr of Release thing. It just "comes" to her, no explanation, nothing. Thats lame. Sure people could say thats the fault of the writers but so is writing a Mary Sue. If you dont think she is, thats fine, but no need to be overly snarky about it. Your post seemed pretty incoherent to me, sorry.

Of course you won't get into it, since any daylight shed on the subject might reveal how silly your position really is.

The concept of "Mary Sue" is tortured even in general, but specific to Fire Emblem, it seems like the favorite term of both elementary school literary critics, as well as people looking for a hoity-toity way to say "I don't like XYZ". The expanded usage is possibly the most useless contribution to society since Venetian-Blind Sunglasses or Hair in a Can. The only thing that "reeks" here is the corpse of an absurd argument.

I suppose I could pull an Interceptor and abuse the flying lavabombs in 3-8 to get Mist up to stuff for a few chapters, but I'm not really the type that is willing to do that. Though a 20/20/1+ Laura in 1-5 and a --/20/1+ Mist in 3-10 would be kinda fun.

It's more than kinda fun, it's awesome. Except the Laura part, nobody cares about her.

So I've looked through all the posts, but thus far nobody has said anything really special about Micaiah.

Or more accurately, nobody has said anything that you find "really special", which is something else entirely.

[BrightBow]

Before calling Micaiah a Sue I would advice that those Sue traits usually don't work out in her favor.

There is for example her ability to read people's feelings. Micaiah trusted Pellas because she knew he had Daeins interest in mind. Thats why she was loyal to him even though she didn't like the orders he gave her. Her feelings where correct but they were not taking into account that Pellas was way to trusting and naive in order to be any good for Daein. He spectacularly proved this by being stupid enough to subscribe a contract with his own blood. Once he knew he screwed up he was to afraid to tell anyone and just followed the orders of Lekain. If Micaiah would have refused to carry out his orders, chances are that the truth would have been revealed sooner and there would have been more time to find a solution.

And her ability to read the future lead her to return to the boy Nico in chapter 1-1 to heal him after he was gunned down. This lead to Jarod gunning down all the people present.

Her heron empathy also made her way to deeply attached to the people of Daein. In a base conversation of 1-8 Micaiah said that during the time she was separated from Sothe, she learned to love her country because of all the kindness she revived (the girl who was alone and on the run for most her life) just because she was from Daein.

Given who we're taling about that's a rather weak reason to be patriotic. They were only kind to her because they didn't know who she really was. Of course they were kind to people of Daein. They are all racist. Racists are perfectly nice and kind people as long as your are one of them. If you are not one of them, then bad things will happen to you. They only loved who they thought was Micaiah. If they would have known the real Micaiah they would have grabbed their pitchforks. And you are not obligated to love somebody who would kill you.

Either way because of her deep attachment to them, she accepted to become a general of Daein. Her heron-empathy made her unsuitable for being a general and she proved it by never questioning Pellas just because she could feel he was a good person as mentioned above, randomly fainting and when she thought Sothe died she completely despaired. And the worst of all is, that in the previous mentioned base conversation she said that she knew she wasn't suited for this. Yet her "love" for Daein made her push herself far beyond what's reasonable and you can just push yourself that far before you break and if you break you don't help anyone.

She also decided it's better for the apostles army to be wiped out, allowing the senators to put the continent under their rule again and to make all Daein die as Begnion's slaves, instead of taking the chance to stop those genocidal fiends once and for all. Many Daein would have died as well, but at least they would have died as free men and Daein would have a chance to have a future. In short, she decided to save nothing over the chance to save at last something.

To me it seems it was the point to make her flawed in contrast to the actual Hero Ike but I think they succeeded a bit too good in it, ending with her not looking symphatic at all. I would say this is mostly because of the really bad storytelling in RD though, like the whole unexplained mess that is the Blood Pact. Where does it come from? How does it work? You would think that since the Blood Pact is supposed to justify the games most major conflict, they would flash it out as much as possible but they didn't and as a result Micaiah's reasons aren't very convincing which I consider her main problem.

Well, at last it is nice how she contrasts with the usual idealistic wide-eyed 15+ old Fire Emblem hero who somehow manages to have even the most experienced of generals follow his lead and ultimately succeeding in bringing the whole world to peace and harmony.

Edited September 19, 2010 by BrightBow-User

[eclipse]

Reading the future = cheap

I won't argue whether Micaiah is a Sue, but there's certain traits about her that irk me, and the one mentioned above is the worst one. If she couldn't read the future, and was still fighting independently anyway, that would have been extremely cool.

[Junkhead]

We might want to leave this where it is.

There's already been tons of arguements reguarding Micaiah's role of a "Mary Sue". It's futile to keep this up, when the main purpose of this topic was to try to convince the OP of Micaiah, even though it failed.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Actually, the future sight bit of her powers never bothered me. Sure it was convenient, but it didnt really bother me. Mostly because the writers were savvy enough to make this power get real spotty as certain parts of the story went on. Plus there was an explanation for it. The mind reading bit didnt bother me either. Other characters (Herons) have that ability too.

[Flashpoint_1230]

Yeah, and it's not like Micaiah is a mind-reading, future-telling savant or anything, either. She can't activate her abilities at will, and her mind-reading doesn't go very deep. Plus, she only ever used it on Naesala. Her personality is... Well... I don't know. She kind of reminded me of Mist, I guess.

Her combat skills are actually okay. It's just that the enemies actually possess a Res stat this time around. Really, her hugest problem is whether she can proc enough speed. Her Sothe support adds enough to her survivability, although her HP is a little low.

Honestly, I think that she's useable, which all that I ask for in an FE lord. And, as most people have said, her main use is as a healer/knight-killer. I haven't read any of the other pages of posts yets, so I'm just typing my initial thoughts. I'll go back and read them later tonight.

[Just call me AL]

I never said anything about Micaiah being perfect and all. I didn't pronounce her a Mary Sue either. Nor did I mention Ike. All I said is that she has Sue-ish traits, and for that matter, so does Ike, and Soren, and twenty thousand other characters out there. What makes a character interesting to you may not be interesting to others. Getting characters recruited away from her doesn't actually mean anything in this particular context, it just means gameplay is a little more unique this time round, but that has nothing to do with Micaiah's personality.

While it may be true that it's a gameplay thing (meaning whether Jill and Zihark stay with the DB depends on the player's actions), Micaiah's actions during the 2nd half of part 3 does give Zihark and Jill enough reason to want to defect to the Laguz Alliance. I think that has to count for something about Micaiah.

[Liz]

i really don't like Micaiah, in fact I almost hate her, but not because she's a Mary Sue or because she's a bad unit or anything like that. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is just something about her that just annoys me to no end.

Also, just because a character has "Mary Sue" traits does not automatically make her a "Mary Sue". In fact, I've read several stories that the protagonist would very much be labeled a Mary Sue, but thanks to excellent writing and story development actually avoids doing so.

I sincerely believe that if Micaiah's parts had been expanded on a bit longer, it would have been infinitely more interesting. and if Sothe had been removed from the equation.

Actually, I think i hate Micaiah because of Sothe. Her whole part would be infinitely more awesome without him, in retrospect. or at least if they had removed a great chunk of that dialogue and spread it among the other characters.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Bianchi

[Silith]

She's got a sweet ass.

[Junkhead]

Actually, I think i hate Micaiah because of Sothe. Her whole part would be infinitely more awesome without him, in retrospect. or at least if they had removed a great chunk of that dialogue and spread it among the other characters.

That probably helped on making her look more like a Mary Sue in others' view. You know, a character that's being over-protected often until the end. =/

She's got a sweet ass.

Fuck you for saying that.

[RNG Princess]

Poor Micaiah going back to other games she's definitly more interesting than some of the other lord characters.

I'd rate them like this (trying to be fair) leadership wise:

Leaf, Micaiah, Eirika, Ephraim, Sigurd, Ike, Marth, Eliwood, Lyn, Roy, Hector. (idk Alm, Selica, or Sigurd's son yet)

I felt like Leaf, Micaiah, Eirika, Ephraim, Sigurd, Ike, and Marth were the most engaging leaders because they had real reasons to fight during the war either to liberate their country etc ...Ike not so much because of himself but because of Elincia and being hired by her.

Eliwood is off to find his father and is engaged on an adventure I can take that. If Lyn had her own game I'm not sure if she would get bashed as much but her tutorial mode story was pretty decent and engaging to me, much like Eliwood she's off to rescue her grandfather. Roy I forgot why he even fights and Hector seemed better off as a secondary character he's there to "support" his friend but he seems to be like Valter in a way.

Utility/combat/etc:

Sigurd, Ike, Micaiah, Hector, Eliwood, Ephraim, Eirika, Lyn, Leaf, Roy, Marth.

Sigurd and Ike are where they are and everyone should agree...

I'm stuck with Hector and Micaiah, he kills things but she kills things too and heal. I'm putting her over him because she's always going to be used and he could easily be dumped in favor for another on Eliwood's mode.

Ephraim has better combat than Eirika but she's pretty useful too; its a shame they promote very late though oh and she gets 8 chapters in favor over him.

Eliwood is like Eirika and Ephraim put together.

Lyn is useful but she has her cons with low str.

Leaf is pretty weak sauce by what I've seen so far.

Roy promotes way too late so you either cap him early or you cap him late but he's just going to be there for most of the time.

Marth sucks.

If Elincia and Sothe can be counted as lords I'd place..Sothe over Ephraim and Elincia over Hector :3

Edited October 1, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[eclipse]

I'm not sure who you'd use besides Hector. He's got a very light, accurate axe that's a combination of Hammer and Poleaxe, and he's relatively accurate for an axe dude. I think he needs to come along in every chapter, too.

I'd put Marth > Lyn, because Falchion is that awesome (or it could be because I'm mad after seeing Sol Katti do 0 damage against the thing it's super-effective against).