Fire Emblem: Dream of Five

[cyron]

i already posted your battle sprite

other than the odd battle stats that looks pretty awesome

also i edited the 0 rng stuff into my post stuff into my previous post

also i got the code from this topic: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=41433&hl=%2Bfire+%2Bemblem

Edited October 22, 2013 by Wintersmith

[AstraLunaSol]

can't ORKO a merc, character sucks

and she also faces 9 displayed crit

unless you're 19/20 spd you can't double a merc

hsdfhghsdhfhfsdhghsdfhgshdfghdsfhg may i cry? Also, i still have the v.4 patch and i was wondering about obtaining the v.5 patch.

it doesn't exist

yet

Also, Renair's animation is getting a custom animation for the sword, right?

possibly

other than the odd battle stats that looks pretty awesome

also i edited the 0 rng stuff into my post stuff into my previous post

also i got the code from this topic: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=41433&hl=%2Bfire+%2Bemblem

cool

[riariadne]

I was wondering when she would show up.

That sprite is bitchin.

[Robert Stewart]

from 6x

Wait

there's a chapter 6 gaiden

f*** me

Edited October 22, 2013 by shinpichu

[Miacis]

if this were true in the least, the best level design would have nothing but open plain and a seize point, with no enemies or anything to trip up the player. puzzle games, whose sole purpose is to challenge the player with finding the unique solution, would be universally frowned upon as having the worst possible level design.

it follows from the mere existence of a level design that a player cannot just do whatever the fuck he wants to and clear the level.

My claim is that leaving a wider range of possibilities is beneficial in general. Nowhere did I say that taking it to the extreme was THE solution. There's making coherent map design that forces the player into limiting himself to specific, unique strategies for each map, and then there's forcing the same "don't do this or you die" gimmick to all chapters in the game.

If the game places a forest full of tough enemies in my path, I can try and cross it with a flier, I can go around it, or I can cross it and end up in a difficult situation, but never difficult enough I can't get out of it. That's got nothing to do with basically "instant-death if you use this strategy".

That's probably why Fire Emblem is a strategy game and not a puzzle game.

[Thor Odinson]

Wait

there's a chapter 6 gaiden

f*** me

you literally can't miss 6x tho if you go musain it's a mandatory chapter there

and if you go onduris you won't get it at all because it is not a thing there

[Wayward Winds]

...Way to ramp up the anticipation, Astra. So, anyone who has been RNG cursed gets the opportunity to pick up a whole new team worth of recruits if I'm reading things right. The entire other route team in Ch. 15, three new characters in Ch. 16 (two from the get go if I remember the FEE3 vid. right) and now Thyra in Ch. 16. Obviously I'm guessing for Ch. numbers at the moment. But I'm guessing that after this mass influx, recruitment drops to a trickle? Because that must be the character roster pretty much filled up.

Either L12 or L14. i don't like L13 because it's a prime number...

...Not to mention 13 is the unlucky number. (...And I wouldn't put it past Astra for finding a way to jinx things for lv. 13 promotions).

...I'm sorry if my argument came over as unrealistical and aggressive (although frankly your counter argument was pretty aggressive as well); that was my rationalisation for why I leave promoting until as late as possible. Other people have other opinions, which is normal - different playstyles. Whereas I'll stick to a specific team and throw flyers and a few choice others against near anything, relying on superior evasion and doubling to see me through, others will switch characters around from map to map and have generally lower levels but more tactical variety when choosing to deploy.

Really, I should have just stuck out of the argument, seeing as it doesn't actually affect my own playstyle. So the rest of this 'rationalisation' is under spoiler tags to avoid more unnecessary clutter.

Right, rather than go on a "I'm right, you're wrong" rant, which would be the worst of manners, I'm just going to explain why I prefer late promotions.

I... was not very good when I first played FE7. I promoted as soon as I could, and extensively relied on the pre-promotes (on the foolish assumption that being later recruits, they had to be better). This... led to problems when I reached 'Light', because despite all of those prepromotes being at lv. 20, no one could do any meaningful damage to the bosses. Sure, they could handle the small fry, but bosses were somewhat beyond them. As for the early promotes like Sain, they were even worse. I ended up having to try racing Athos all over the place while everyone else resorted to delaying strategies until he could get there and pull their butts out of the fire. The situation was so bad that I ended up restarting the entire game because I simply did not have the firepower required to face 4+ bosses at once. Second time through, I waited 'till lv. 20 or thereabouts to promote, paid attention to my Lords, and found 'Light' much easier. I've also learnt that late joining units either pale in potential to earlier units (Karla, Syrene, Elice), are awkward to train (Est, Nino), or just plain aren't worth the effort (Gotoh, Renault). Another eason why I prefer sticking with the earlier units in general rather switching to prepromotes as they come along. Of course, Do5 will probably be different.

...For the record, in a normal full length FE (which Do5 will eventually be) playthrough I almost always hit 20/20 with about a third to half of my active units, with about another quarter - generally things like Clerics, Mages and Snipers who had limited exp opportunities earlier in the game - ending up about 20/15. So, given the exp available, it is possible to properly raise a substantial army for the endgame. I may need to go for every enemy to get these exp gains, but I also ignore the arena and certainly do not boss abuse. Both of those activities are boring as anything IMO. I've yet to have a repeat of that 'Light' incident, hence my conclusion that late promoting does make a considerable difference.

I'll certainly concede that the +1 to movement promotion gain makes a heck of a difference though. And for some reason in FE6 (which I'm currently playing) saw massive improvements to crit. rate and damage on promotion, despite pretty meagre stat gains. I'm still not sure why - and curiously Seren saw a similar inexplicable boost to her crit. rate when she promoted to Halberdier.

So I'm not denying that early promoting can be useful; just that none of my early promotes have stayed particularly useful right to the endgame. Hence the suggestion that they could well be filler. You may well have had other experiences, and thus will have formed other conclusions.

Really though, it's not my decision. Neither who you use, when you promote them, how you play in general. I have no right to tell you how to play. I've given my reasoning for how I play, I'll listen to any comebacks, but I'm not dragging this out. Otherwise this will degrade into a raging argument, and no one wants the thread mod-locked.

On the subject of the anti-turtling, and the subsequent design... discussion, I'll only add my view. Turtling is fine providing it's not overused. I suspect that what Astra's probably trying to avoid is the possibility of people turtling for 20 - 30 turns straight until all the reinforcements are done, and then emerging to mop up whatever happens to be left. I haven't a problem here, because that sort of playstyle is taking the idea of defensive play a bit too far, and just leads to dull, repetitive gameplay. However, turtling is a good thing, when it's used in moderation.

In my typical assault, I'll keep an eye on conditions and switch from offensive to defensive accordingly. Say, I'll advance where I can, but if I reach a chokepoint with a metaphorical horde waiting just on the other side, then I'll stop there and switch to a defensive posture until said horde is at least diminished. If the enemy doesn't particularly want to come to me, then I may use a tougher unit as bait to draw them out and back towards me. Once I've cleared up the numbers a bit, then I'll push on.

Alternatively, I have a clear spell where I can advance... except this gets me to a junction. I have enemies coming from behind, and enemies coming from one of the two routes ahead. I'll quickly scurry into the empty route, pause, and now I've only got to defend against enemies from my rear. Turtle for a turn or two, then push on. I'm not a LTC player, but even so I don't like taking months to cross a map. Who knows what'll be thrown in to encourage a reasonable level of pace.

...Thieves or Brigands usually. Sure, you can turtle, but be prepared to see the villages razed and the chest loot walking off. Or just vanishing into thin air if Astra's incorporated that disappearing Thief thing from Elibian Nights. Alternatively, some idiot NPC/recruitable character appearing right out in the midst of enemy lines. If you're turtling, your chances of reaching them and reaping the benefits are virtually nil.

Summary: Good levels do offer opportunities for tactical variation, and it should be possible to turtle to a limited extent. Turtling also doesn't just mean 'huddle round the merchant for 50 turns', you can temporarily turtle during particularly rough parts of your advance. But turtle too much, and there will and should be consequences.

...Suggestion Astra; please put a Thief in 13B. Give us some incentive to progress through that map in a reasonable amount of time, rather than working on the fact we'll assume there's a Thief due to arrive on turn X. That was the chapter that struck me as the most likely to make people turtle for twenty plus turns. I didn't, but I was determined to beat the theoretical Thieves to the loot.

[Agro]

I'll certainly concede that the +1 to movement promotion gain makes a heck of a difference though. And for some reason in FE6 (which I'm currently playing) saw massive improvements to crit. rate and damage on promotion, despite pretty meagre stat gains. I'm still not sure why - and curiously Seren saw a similar inexplicable boost to her crit. rate when she promoted to Halberdier.

Halberdiers are meant to gain +15 (20?) crit on promotion, like Swordmasters and Berserkers. In FE6 it's +30.

[CT075]

wrt earlypromoting argument keep in mind that dondon considers ltc'ing HHM fe7 with all growths set to 0% fairly easy

actually that pretty much entirely voids out the argument; i'm hard-pressed to think of an explanation of how much difference 10 levels would make if the game is not particularly difficult with 0 levels gained

[Thor Odinson]

Halberdiers are meant to gain +15 (20?) crit on promotion, like Swordmasters and Berserkers. In FE6 it's +30.

All single-weapon tier2s should have +15 crit. Snipers do here as well.

[Paperblade]

iirc a lot of enemy Halbs use Spears which are +5 crit, that's probably what's tripping him up

[Myke]

C- i want to post in this thread but so much is going on and all i have to say is 'go team'

C- so yeah that

[dondon151]

...I'm sorry if my argument came over as unrealistical and aggressive (although frankly your counter argument was pretty aggressive as well);

there is nothing wrong with calling it as i see it, and i'm sorry if you don't feel the same way, but i won't apologize for it. you can't sugarcoat disagreement.

Really, I should have just stuck out of the argument, seeing as it doesn't actually affect my own playstyle. So the rest of this 'rationalisation' is under spoiler tags to avoid more unnecessary clutter.

Right, rather than go on a "I'm right, you're wrong" rant, which would be the worst of manners, I'm just going to explain why I prefer late promotions.

and you should continue to follow your own advice and stick out of the argument. whether you are bad at fire emblem or personally prefer to grind units to L20 before promotion or whatever is totally irrelevant to astra's decision to change the minimum promotion level. if you never, ever promote before L20 in your personal experience, then why should you care at all whether someone else can promote at L10 or L12 or L15?

[Wayward Winds]

wrt earlypromoting argument keep in mind that dondon considers ltc'ing HHM fe7 with all growths set to 0% fairly easyactually that pretty much entirely voids out the argument; i'm hard-pressed to think of an explanation of how much difference 10 levels would make if the game is not particularly difficult with 0 levels gained

...If only I'd known this before diving blindly in.

Anyway, @Dondon. For the record, that last post was mostly just defending my playstyle, and nowhere there did I attempt (at least deliberately) to attack yours. It is possible to do one without the other, and I don't really see how a non-aggressive post (that actually put points towards your playstyle) warrants an angry response. Arguments happen when two opinions meet, and neither will back down. Message received; I like late promotions, you prefer early ones. Fine, opposite opinions, but nothing worth fighting over. Live and let live; it's not as if this has a serious issue at heart, like politics or religion.

Therefore, I'm backing down. I concede I was wrong to get involved in the first place, and I won't pursue the argument any further.

...I hope that's an acceptable enough conclusion to the matter.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Wayward Winds

[eclipse]

Hey, er, I have a question. In the FEE3 Dream of Five video, you said there were, "script enhancements" (or something like that). How much enhancing did you do? Do you have some examples of stuff you enhanced?

Just curious, really.

Missed this, sorry~! I added a few things here and there, as well as did some wording tweaking. I need to finish up the last chapter (trying to script it is TOUGH), but I think it'll be clearer once the next patch goes public.

[Trepanation]

No money on chapter 8 and basic weapons are running out...

[Pixelman]

Missed this, sorry~! I added a few things here and there, as well as did some wording tweaking. I need to finish up the last chapter (trying to script it is TOUGH), but I think it'll be clearer once the next patch goes public.

Haha, okay. Thank you for clarifying, miss Eclipse!

[Trepanation]

How are you supposed to save the dancer and pirate on chapter 10? She dies in 1 round and enemies just keep coming after greens are all dead.

[Ansem]

get better at fe

[NobodiePichu]

How are you supposed to save the dancer and pirate on chapter 10? She dies in 1 round and enemies just keep coming after greens are all dead.

plan defensively, check enemy ranges and sacrifice green units as there's no reward to saving any of them besides the pirate and the dancer.

[wish there was a reward for saving at least SOME of them]

Edited October 26, 2013 by ShinyPichu

[Trepanation]

Not possible to "play defensively" when your only 2 units are a crummy pirate and a dancer that dies in 1 round. And enemies kill the greens but keep coming.

[AstraLunaSol]

move them away from the boat when you have time

move characters to them as fast as you can

you should not play defensively in that case since people will definitely die

[Trepanation]

OK this time the greens played their turns more efficiently and we were able to wall them off at the plank for a turn or two and the archer didn't get popped in 1 round.

[Thor Odinson]

I'd also send some air support if you have some good fliers (or if you don't, be good at keeping fliers out of the way of harm and drop over a strong land unit)

Once I dropped Garath over to pretty good effect

Edited October 26, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[broly333]

i just finished chapter 14A and i was taken to chapter 19 so does this means i have to wait for the next patch to appear or is it just messed up