Zanarkin Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Royals could move down, by the time its 4-E you have capped 3rd tier units by the dozens (Maybe an exageration) with 1-2 range. And for 4-E-3 onwards you have +5 bonuses. Really, the royals are not making much of a difference i'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Royals could move down, by the time its 4-E you have capped 3rd tier units by the dozens (Maybe an exageration) with 1-2 range. And for 4-E-3 onwards you have +5 bonuses. Really, the royals are not making much of a difference i'd say. you're not exagerating at all . I got to raise Micaiah, Lyre, Mist and a few others by BEXP and I had handfuls of units promoted by part 4. All the paladins were at reasonable stats enough to double on 4-E, all the armors as well, and a handful of laguz and mages. Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I'd like to hear what the others say before I jump to conclusions ^_^ to me she seems mid tier material I'm not really seeing how Meg is mid tier material at all... >_> On the laguz royals: I suppose they could stand to drop. Edited February 21, 2011 by Malik Maxwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I'm not really seeing how Meg is mid tier material at all... >_> and I don't see how she's low tier thats why I need more opinions and proof (: Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Probably a combination of low bases in combination with her class. She has the movement problem of the General class without having the high defense or strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Meg isn't awful, as with BEXP she can double quite a bit (especially since spd is one of her highest growths. Ilyana probably does more though, as she has more availabiltiy to be better in part 4/contribute beforehand. Muarim should still be lower. Not existing for 99% of the game is just unacceptable for an uppermid unit, especially when he comes back sub-par. Also, the gap between Lyre/Fiona probably needs to close. If you dump all of your bexp into Lyre, she is a decent unit. And unlike in HM, we have enough to spare in EM. I dunno, she could probably be higher than Mist, who's just as weak but starts with worse movement. @Narga: Yes, but I'd still rather put someone with 100% chances in teh enemy's way. Already upper mid is probably better than mid, i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Meg isn't awful, as with BEXP she can double quite a bit (especially since spd is one of her highest growths. Ilyana probably does more though, as she has more availabiltiy to be better in part 4/contribute beforehand. Muarim should still be lower. Not existing for 99% of the game is just unacceptable for an uppermid unit, especially when he comes back sub-par. Also, the gap between Lyre/Fiona probably needs to close. If you dump all of your bexp into Lyre, she is a decent unit. And unlike in HM, we have enough to spare in EM. I dunno, she could probably be higher than Mist, who's just as weak but starts with worse movement. @Narga: Yes, but I'd still rather put someone with 100% chances in teh enemy's way. Already upper mid is probably better than mid, i guess. Fiona is tricky since she's only passable with BEXP same with Lyre(and Lethe) except Fiona is still better. and Lyre is still one of the worst her damage never gets to be good :/ but idk what the facts are, is her str one of her highest growths with bexp? In my PT she got str a few times. Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Fiona's damage never gets to be good either, if Lyre's doesn't. The gap isn't that wide. Her str is fifth highest. Fiona's str is also fifth highest, but is closer to highest. However, Lyre comes in with more resources available, with more availability and a better team that can pass the exp and still get on fine. BEXP + adept could be very helpful and drastically improve her performance. At the very least, a tier gap is probably not justified. And please don't brush over my point about Mist. Also, Nailah > Tibarn was never properly addressed. Muarim still needs to be lower. Meg still needs to go down and Shinon also needs to go down. Edited February 21, 2011 by Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Fiona's damage never gets to be good either, if Lyre's doesn't. The gap isn't that wide. Her str is fifth highest. Fiona's str is also fifth highest, but is closer to highest. However, Lyre comes in with more resources available, with more availability and a better team that can pass the exp and still get on fine. BEXP + adept could be very helpful and drastically improve her performance. At the very least, a tier gap is probably not justified. And please don't brush over my point about Mist. Also, Nailah > Tibarn was never properly addressed. Muarim still needs to be lower. Meg still needs to go down and Shinon also needs to go down. Fiona does have some advantages over Lyre though she doesn't have to worry about cat gauge and such she can face multiple enemies without worrying about detransforming, also canto, forges, and 2 range. Althoug having a horse hurts Fiona in the maps she's in :). I'd place Fiona over Lyre but I can see Lethe over Fiona. Where do you think Muarim and Meg belong? As for your Mist point I don't agree with Mist < Lyre. Mist has healing after all, even though its less frequently done on easy mode she'll never require much that much BEXP to be useful. Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Fiona does have some advantages over Lyre though she doesn't have to worry about cat gauge and such she can face multiple enemies without worrying about detransforming, also canto, forges, and 2 range. Althoug having a horse hurts Fiona in the maps she's in :). I'd place Fiona over Lyre but I can see Lethe over Fiona. Fiona > Lyre is fine, but I want the gap closed. Their combat simply isn't on such a different level that a tier gap is justified. Where do you think Muarim and Meg belong? Lower Mid. Both lower than Ilyana, but above Astrid. Muarim > Meg. As for your Mist point I don't agree with Mist < Lyre. Mist has healing after all, even though its less frequently done on easy mode she'll never require much that much BEXP to be useful. Healing is almost-if not completely- pointless, and Mist's combat is fairly awful too, if not worse than Lyre's outright. Again, where does the tier gap come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 What's with the tier gap between Meg and Ilyana??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 and I don't see how she's low tier thats why I need more opinions and proof (: How about this Meg has some of the worst strength and skill in the entire DB. She also has the worst movement and the worst weapon type and has terrible caps that limit her ability to be useful in 4-E. She contributes only a single chapter of thwacking walls to an efficient EM playthrough, which is less than Leonardo, Vika, or even Lucia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Also, Sothe should probably be > Ike by virtue of him being better than his competition for longer, including a few maps where he is far and away the best unit while Ike has none. I'd put him between Titania and Oscar as the list looks now. Sothe's part 4 is still crap, even on EM, due to lolknives. Edited February 22, 2011 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sothe's part 4 is still crap, even on EM, due to lolknives. Your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krad Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sothe's part 4 is still crap, even on EM, due to lolknives. It's not that bad. IIRC from my EM playthrough, Sothe can ORKO the paladins in 4-P with a Silver Dagger with max STR. He 3HKO's enemies mostly during 4-3, but his main use here is to get items, not to fight. We already have Jill, Haar and Naesala who don't have any trouble killing everything in this map. Then in 4-E, assuming he has capped STR by now (it's his third highest growth with BEXP, and 4-3 gives boatloads of EXP), with the Baselard he has 46 atk. Now, I can't remember the stats of the Endgame-1 generals, but I do know that none of them had 30+ def, and most were at around 27-28 def. With Adept, he should have a high enough chance to ORKO this guys, since he should be 3HKOing. Then from Endgame-2 onwards it's irrelevant. His part 4 is not stellar, but is good enough. And don't forget his ridiculous part 1 and great part 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) How about this Meg has some of the worst strength and skill in the entire DB. She also has the worst movement and the worst weapon type and has terrible caps that limit her ability to be useful in 4-E. She contributes only a single chapter of thwacking walls to an efficient EM playthrough, which is less than Leonardo, Vika, or even Lucia. convincing but I believe Meg > Leo...theres plenty of BEXP and she's decent enough to make use of it. Though I see the logic about her class/move and no for endgame she can use a hammer and have enough speed. As for the comment on Sothe Bane + Adept ;) Edited February 23, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hammers which help for one chapter, and she sucks outside of that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 How? Easy mode blessings should boost her up after 4-E-2. +Wyrmslayer I know she has bad move but its not that much of a deal for endgame except Lehran's chapter ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 How? Easy mode blessings should boost her up after 4-E-2. +Wyrmslayer I know she has bad move but its not that much of a deal for endgame except Lehran's chapter ^_^ That is probably the worst place for bad move to not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I say again: WTH is with the tier gap between Meg and Ilyana?? I see no reason for her to be above Ilyana. Edited February 23, 2011 by Malik Maxwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Doesn't Ilyana still suck in EM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Wooops I must be too permisive ^_^ I tend to forget about costs, advantages/disadvantages. I was looking at all the good things Meg could do but I was forgetting about the negatives and how much they cost. It does make sense, although Meg can get better in easy mode compared to hard mode her potential < others. Sorry if I was a bit too stubborn (: Meg is now queen of Low tier @ Pet Pikachu, she's actually pretty useful I'm thinking Bastian belongs way down Edited February 23, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Doesn't Ilyana still suck in EM? The only issue she really has in EM is her speed. Its still crap. Unless you put a speedwing on her, shes not doubling in part 4. Shes pretty damn useful in part 1 however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Edit: nvm, my point was already reflected in the tier list. Thought the Ilyana stuff was still going. Edited February 23, 2011 by Rewjeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Doesn't Ilyana still suck in EM? She has the highest availability, EM amount of CEXP, and BEXP so she's not really crap. I mean, by the end part 4 endgame comes, she might not double and be as useful, but she did so much for us on all those chapters, her part 4 e is barely important. Plus you get the +5 bonus and hitting dragons with extra damage. Thats awesome. Sorry but i think ilyana is a high tier unit here. Not to forget the 1-2 range and her early access to celerity, which certainly helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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