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his presence doesn't affect much in 1-8, though he can help some units gain cexp his positioning is so off. Where as Reyson is needed for chapters like 3-5 and that volcano chapter as well, and the ever most boring 3-7.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic about 3-7...

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Yeah i would go Reyson > Rafiel as well. Reyson has better mobility so he can usually keep up with the rest of the team. Also canto. Hes also at a higher base level. Bliss is nice to have even in Easy Mode (especially if you want to take on the BK in 3-7 for story reasons.).

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In my opinion, Reyson is more useful in Part 3 than Rafiel is in Part 4. And Reyson is not bad at all in Part 4, either. Really, Rafiel is only better if we're obsessed with 1-turning all of 4-E.

When we are trying to go as fast as possible it counts. Isn't this what all these tiers are based around? How a character helps in terms of turncount?

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I take it you haven't actually ever played Easy Mode, right? Because I have and I've never had any accuracy issues whatsoever (on any of my playthroughs).

What are you talking about? Gatrie can miss rather easily even on Easy Mode (which I play almost exclusively so I can use whoever I want), and Javelins/ Hand Axes are the weakest weapons he can use anyways. There's also no contest in Soren having better mobility, which means he can get places better. Which means he kills more. Which saves turns. Which is the point of the playthrough. Which makes him have an edge over Gatrie in having a existant offense. Gatrie can be tossed as soon as you get Haar. Soren is at least doing magic damage and cannot miss ever. Fuck durability if you can't even use it.

tl;dr either Gatrie needs to drop a lot or Soren needs to rise a lot.

Edited by Reinfleche
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What are you talking about? Gatrie can miss rather easily even on Easy Mode (which I play almost exclusively so I can use whoever I want), and Javelins/ Hand Axes are the weakest weapons he can use anyways. There's also no contest in Soren having better mobility, which means he can get places better. Which means he kills more. Which saves turns. Which is the point of the playthrough. Which makes him have an edge over Gatrie in having a existant offense. Gatrie can be tossed as soon as you get Haar. Soren is at least doing magic damage and cannot miss ever. Fuck durability if you can't even use it.

tl;dr either Gatrie needs to drop a lot or Soren needs to rise a lot.

Gatrie can face many enemies and not die, Soren can't

Gatrie gets to doubling mode quickly, Soren doesn't

Gatrie's forges (if he even needs them) are inexpensive, Soren's aren't"

Both have low mobility but Gatrie is more appropriate for a rescue drop.

Edited by Queen_Elincia
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Exactly. Reyson saves more turns in Part 3 than Rafiel saves in 4-E.

My post wasn't about who saves more turns, i was just saying that because of this

Really, Rafiel is only better if we're obsessed with 1-turning all of 4-E.

Which means you were actually saying Rafiel saves more turns in 4-E than Reyson does in part 3 :P

Edited by SlayerX
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Nolan starts with issues, Edward starts with none both end great Eddie > Nolan.

Edward does not start off with good durability I'm afraid. And with BEXP speed can be boosted (especially as it's one of his highest), or even just .99'ed every chapter for a while. Edward needs tonnes of the stuff shovelled down his throat just for unreliable dodge tanking.

Not to mention Edward's starting str isn't very good anyway and also needs boosting up.

Gatrie has zero chapters of usefulness. Same goes for Ilyana. They are simply too slow (in terms of movement speed).

1-4, 1-8, 3-1, 3-10, 3-13, 3-12, 4-4, 4-1. None of those chapters require you to go miles for kills.

But when is Sigrun ever useful? Blocking gaps in 3-13? Two tier gaps pl0x.

Muarim is even better than her, I'll admit. Kieran at least has 3-9 and 2-3, as does geoffrey. Since when does 1-8 compensate that for Muarim and justify a tier gap to boot? Why is a unit that is available for two chapters in upper mid?

Edited by Kevin
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Edward does not start off with good durability I'm afraid. And with BEXP speed can be boosted (especially as it's one of his highest), or even just .99'ed every chapter for a while. Edward needs tonnes of the stuff shovelled down his throat just for unreliable dodge tanking.

Not to mention Edward's starting str isn't very good anyway and also needs boosting up.

Buddy, this is Easy mode. On top of weaker enemies and much higher experience gain, Edward gets a lot of WTA. There's nothing unreliable about him, though I'd probably still agree with Nolan > Edward due to Hand Axes.

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Which means you were actually saying Rafiel saves more turns in 4-E than Reyson does in part 3 :P

Ah. No, that wasn't my intention. Still, Rafiel is around in 1-E and 4-4, two of the most (in my opinion, at least) annoying chapters in the game... That shouldn't be enough to get him over Reyson, though.

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Rafiel has

Well, he has 1-E although his help there is a bit minimal unless celerity is given.

4-4 which is the most annoying chapter if it gets to the reinforcements.

4-E-1,2,3,4,5

6.5 chapters of usefulness. (don't know about 4-1...)

Reyson has

3-5 allowing you to 2 turn although since its easy mode, overleveled 3rd tier haar can just drop in on turn 1 and kill everyone.

3-7 which is cool because of BK and ike fight, though he doesn't save us any turns due to defense chapter.

3-8 which is awesome he saves us turns there. (I don't like this chapter.)

3-10 also saves us turns

4-1 and 4-5 gives us savings as well. 4-E is not counted because Rafiel is better here.

Overall 5-6 i'd say.

I think the winner here is Rafiel to be honest.

One point is awarded for useful chapter, .5 for chapter in which unit has trouble helping/not very helpful.

Reason for Reyson's being 5-6 is because i couldn't decide wheter to give reyson .5 or 1 in 3-5 and 3-7.

Edited by SlayerX
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Well, he has 1-E although his help there is a bit minimal unless celerity is given.

4-4 which is the most annoying chapter if it gets to the reinforcements.

4-E-1,2,3,4,5

6.5 chapters of usefulness. (don't know about 4-1...)

4-E-1: He's not much better than Reyson, maybe saving a turn over him. Laguz Stones exist, though.

2: Ike 1-turns this, and I don't think Rafiel makes it significantly easier to get the Wishblade.

3: He's better than Reyson if we're 1-turning. If not, a Laguz Stone makes Reyson better.

4: Sephiran can be ORKO'd by Royals, I believe (maybe not Naesala, unless he has SS Strike). Rafiel might make it easier to clear out Spirits in the way, though.

5: I don't believe we're 1-turning this, so Reyson's superior.

Reyson has

3-5 allowing you to 2 turn although since its easy mode, overleveled 3rd tier haar can just drop in on turn 1 and kill everyone.

3-7 which is cool because of BK and ike fight, though he doesn't save us any turns due to defense chapter.

3-8 which is awesome he saves us turns there. (I don't like this chapter.)

3-10 also saves us turns

4-1 and 4-5 gives us savings as well. 4-E is not counted because Rafiel is better here.

Overall 5-6 i'd say.

I think the winner here is Rafiel to be honest.

He might save a turn or two in 3-E as well, since it IS Defeat Enemies (Units?). Really, Rafiel is only better for 1-turning 4-E-3 and 4-E-4.

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He might save a turn or two in 3-E as well, since it IS Defeat Enemies (Units?). Really, Rafiel is only better for 1-turning 4-E-3 and 4-E-4.

It's 80 "deaths," blue and green units inclusive. Not that this really changes Reyson's utility.

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It's only questionable if you can't use him right.

In 1-8, his utility is non-existant. It's basically impossible to perform a 2-turn on this map and his Vigor isn't needed to clear out the upper side or the LHS in three turns. He's still useful in 1-E and Part 4, but I would hardly consider his 1 chapter outside of Part 4 to be superior to Reyson's three.

No Anouleth Reyson makes it much easier to card BK ^^' I can't picture doing that without him.

And what's the value in carding BK? I suppose Lehran might make a 1-turn of 4-E-5 a little more within the bounds of reason.

Nor is Reyson necessary to card the BK. Haar can easily rescue Ike and move him out of the range of the BK.

Gatrie can face many enemies and not die, Soren can't

Gatrie gets to doubling mode quickly, Soren doesn't

Gatrie's forges (if he even needs them) are inexpensive, Soren's aren't"

Both have low mobility but Gatrie is more appropriate for a rescue drop.

Soren only needs an Ike support, or BEXP, or any of the mountains of resources we have going spare. We have plenty of money to make practically infinite forges. Why is Gatrie more appropiate for a rescue drop? Most of the time, we're dropping Ike (3-4 or 3-13), the only chapter where dropping a non-Ike character is relevant is 3-3.

1-4, 1-8, 3-1, 3-10, 3-13, 3-12, 4-4, 4-1. None of those chapters require you to go miles for kills.

This is incomprehensible. What character are you talking about? Ilyana does not exist in half of those chapters. Neither does Gatrie.

Gatrie most certainly DOES have movement issues in 4-1 and 4-4. 6 move is not just a matter of 1 space per turn. It also means that if you want to set up a Rafiel Vigor, everyone needs to be moving at the same pace, meaning that everyone needs to slow down for Gatrie to get into position (and without Rafiel, Gatrie falls behind). The same could be applied to 3-10. Gatrie is forced to go on the more trivial southern route rather than head for Sergei's area.

But when is Sigrun ever useful? Blocking gaps in 3-13? Two tier gaps pl0x.

Rescue-dropping in 3-13? Killing stuff in 4-3? If you can handwave Ilyana's awful stats, I can do the same for Sigrun who at least has the advantage of kickass movement.

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It's only questionable if you can't use him right.

4-4 is Rafiel's best non-endgame chapter. 1-8, he starts near Nailah and Volug. 1-E, he falls behind unless given Celerity (which has the opportunity cost of not being able to use it in part 3). 4-1 is fog of war and fighting on multiple fronts.

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4-E-1: He's not much better than Reyson, maybe saving a turn over him. Laguz Stones exist, though.2: Ike 1-turns this, and I don't think Rafiel makes it significantly easier to get the Wishblade.3: He's better than Reyson if we're 1-turning. If not, a Laguz Stone makes Reyson better.4: Sephiran can be ORKO'd by Royals, I believe (maybe not Naesala, unless he has SS Strike). Rafiel might make it easier to clear out Spirits in the way, though.5: I don't believe we're 1-turning this, so Reyson's superior.He might save a turn or two in 3-E as well, since it IS Defeat Enemies (Units?). Really, Rafiel is only better for 1-turning 4-E-3 and 4-E-4.

4-E-1: Except we don't want to waste a turn stoning. fair for 4-E-2. 4-E-5: its possible to 1 turn it, with +5 bonuses, and units like Haar, Royals, and such. As long as this is based on who helps for lower turncounts (again is it?) rafiel is more useful in 4-E. Out of 4-E, Rafiel doesn't help in 1 chapter, 4-E-2.

I never understood why 3-E was considered trivial, aside from the fact it's possible for it to be cleared without your units doing anything at all.

I forgot about it :sweatdrop: But it is really, all those units suicide into you anyway, and into the green units as well.

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1-E, he falls behind unless given Celerity (which has the opportunity cost of not being able to use it in part 3). 4-1 is fog of war and fighting on multiple fronts.

I was happy to point out that Rafiel is not really useful in 1-8, but he is really good in 1-E and 4-1, although he does take skill to use.

Edited by Anouleth
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4-E-1: Except we don't want to waste a turn stoning. fair for 4-E-2. 4-E-5: its possible to 1 turn it, with +5 bonuses, and units like Haar, Royals, and such. As long as this is based on who helps for lower turncounts (again is it?) rafiel is more useful in 4-E. Out of 4-E, Rafiel doesn't help in 1 chapter, 4-E-2.

Sacrificing one turn at the beginning to perform much better for the rest of the chapter isn't a 'waste'. And 1-turning 4-E-5 requires a specific units, even with the +5 bonuses (I forgot about those, so I guess we're even), so I don't like considering that the norm. Especially when most people play Easy Mode for the flexibility to use the units they want to.

Rafiel saves at most 4 turns in 4-E over Reyson, because Reyson can be transformed (and perform far better than Rafiel) on turn 2. Those 4 turns do not make up for all of the turns Reyson saves in Part 3.

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Why are all the Herons directly beside each other, anyway? Leanne is only really helpful for 2-E, 3-11 (maybe?) and 4-3. She's never going to 4-E. This is compared to Reyson, who, as we've seen on this page, is useful for a lot of chapters and isn't that much inferior to Rafiel in 4-E. Yet, Reyson and Leanne are two spaces away?

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