Mechanics that you want

[Thor Odinson]

FE5 giving a growth to Con (or Build, it doesn't matter what it's called really) wasn't a bad idea, though often the growth was so low it might as well have not have existed.

Mainly on female units too,'specially the ones without staffspamming utility, who actually need the con more than the guys since they have far lower base to start with and no other way to become useful than killing things. A lot of the guys had 20+% as their con growth, which is the average gba defense growth, so it wasn't that bad. Neir was nice though in that it gave additional con growths.

While it makes sense biologically, it does shaft non-staffbot female units a bit. And I'd rather game balance than logic in this case.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[dondon151]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but I don't like adding another random variable to the game, so I'd much rather have a fixed con system.

[CrashGordon94]

But fixed CON really sucks, it has a battle function normally so it needs to be able to grow. Not having a CON growth in the GBA games was like not having a STR or SPD growth.

[Anouleth]

^Especially when you consider that since CON affects rescuing and shoving, gaining CON can sometimes be a negative thing. Better to keep it predictable, I think.

[Othin]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but I don't like adding another random variable to the game, so I'd much rather have a fixed con system.

Personally, I find that random variables greatly increase replay value, such as the possibility of having a character be RNG blessed or RNG screwed. Making every playthrough predictable seems boring.

On that note, there's one feature of Berwick Saga I don't like so much, and I'm curious what you think about it. Rather than having growths be completely random, the game calculates the expected number of times a character's growth would have increased (growth x level) and constrains their stats to somewhere near that value, rounded down. Some characters can only have their overall growths within 1 point of the expected number of increases, while other characters can have their growths 2-3 points away, depending on the stat. (Two characters are exempt from the system.)

I personally prefer the random element, although Berwick Saga makes up for it in other ways. But if you prefer less randomness, would you prefer this system?

That said, I do agree with Anouleth that completely random Bld growths can be less preferable, as a stat where even increasing it can cause problems. Having characters get to 20 Bld and be completely unable to be rescued by any character is just annoying, but at least it doesn't decrease mounted units' Aid.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Othin

[Thor Odinson]

I wouldn't mind so much if female units had some advantage over male. As it stands, there really isn't any considering chicks have worse caps in general as well (-2 str for +2 res, what is this shit), and even the rescue formula isn't even in their favour.

I propose changing the rescue formula to either uniform or mount based rather than gender based. Makes no sense that just because the rider is a chick, her horse is somehow smaller.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[Othin]

I wouldn't mind so much if female units had some advantage over male. As it stands, there really isn't any considering chicks have worse caps in general as well (-2 str for +2 res, what is this shit), and even the rescue formula isn't even in their favour.

I propose changing the rescue formula to either uniform or mount based rather than gender based. Makes no sense that just because the rider is a chick, her horse is somehow smaller.

I agree. There's no reason to have Aid and stat caps differ with gender.

[Ϲharlie]

Gender based caps were removed from Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, so hopefully they'll be gone for good.

Come to think of it, did classes have different caps based on gender in FE4? I don't think they did.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Charlie

[grandjackal]

Personally, I find that random variables greatly increase replay value, such as the possibility of having a character be RNG blessed or RNG screwed. Making every playthrough predictable seems boring.

Having played FE6 and 12, I can say that's not true. Having screwed units sounds 100x worse in those instances. Especially true for FE12.

On that note, there's one feature of Berwick Saga I don't like so much, and I'm curious what you think about it. Rather than having growths be completely random, the game calculates the expected number of times a character's growth would have increased (growth x level) and constrains their stats to somewhere near that value, rounded down. Some characters can only have their overall growths within 1 point of the expected number of increases, while other characters can have their growths 2-3 points away, depending on the stat. (Two characters are exempt from the system.)

So they basically ripped this idea right off from Shining Force, though they did it in a different fashion. Basically each level had a scripted stat. Like, level 3 you would have a script of 8 Str. You were allowed to hover around about 2-3 stats above or below that number, so at level 3 you would have at worst 5 Str and at best 11 Str. Difference between Shining Force's system and this one is that Berwick uses a percentile growth, so it's always on a constant line. Shining Force didn't care for that, so a character could be gaining HP steadily by like 1-3 HP or a few levels, then suddenly spike 9-15 HP in one level. This would make characters feel more unique as the game flowed. For example, Ken. Ken's strengths at the start were basically high Str. As the game went on, earlygame he would be notable for having a lot of HP and high Str, but as you got in deeper and deeper, his Str would start to fade, and his Def would be notably weak. However, his HP would still be high to make up for the lack of Def so he was still somewhat durable, notably around mages (no resistance stat). Then, really late in he'd start to get a crapton of Def, but his Str would be unsalvageable.

I really wish FE would adopt the actual Shining Force system. Would fix the problem of "growth units blow and units that start awesome stay awesome" issue that plagues it.Percentile growths aren't strong enough more often than not, unless FE is willing to start breaking 100% growth in certain stats for some characters. Something I doubt will happen.

I personally prefer the random element, although Berwick Saga makes up for it in other ways. But if you prefer less randomness, would you prefer this system?

Should be an option to chose, really. Not everyone enjoys having to roll the dice and hope for the best.

[Thor Odinson]

Gender based caps were removed from Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, so hopefully they'll be gone for good.

Come to think of it, did classes have different caps based on gender in FE4? I don't think they did.

I think FE4 had gender-equal caps, yeah. Female Mage fighters and...well there weren't any female MKs, but it was in the class data IIRC actually had an advantage in which they were able to use staves. Female Paladins, too, though they have a lower lance rank (which doesn't really matter because swords are OP'd in FE4)

[dondon151]

I personally prefer the random element, although Berwick Saga makes up for it in other ways. But if you prefer less randomness, would you prefer this system?

Yes. 2-3 points is still a lot. I think that fixed mode a la FE9 is boring, but in some games getting below average in only a couple of points puts characters in a bad position.

[Othin]

So they basically ripped this idea right off from Shining Force, though they did it in a different fashion. Basically each level had a scripted stat. Like, level 3 you would have a script of 8 Str. You were allowed to hover around about 2-3 stats above or below that number, so at level 3 you would have at worst 5 Str and at best 11 Str. Difference between Shining Force's system and this one is that Berwick uses a percentile growth, so it's always on a constant line. Shining Force didn't care for that, so a character could be gaining HP steadily by like 1-3 HP or a few levels, then suddenly spike 9-15 HP in one level. This would make characters feel more unique as the game flowed. For example, Ken. Ken's strengths at the start were basically high Str. As the game went on, earlygame he would be notable for having a lot of HP and high Str, but as you got in deeper and deeper, his Str would start to fade, and his Def would be notably weak. However, his HP would still be high to make up for the lack of Def so he was still somewhat durable, notably around mages (no resistance stat). Then, really late in he'd start to get a crapton of Def, but his Str would be unsalvageable.

I really wish FE would adopt the actual Shining Force system. Would fix the problem of "growth units blow and units that start awesome stay awesome" issue that plagues it.Percentile growths aren't strong enough more often than not, unless FE is willing to start breaking 100% growth in certain stats for some characters. Something I doubt will happen.

Should be an option to chose, really. Not everyone enjoys having to roll the dice and hope for the best.

That sounds like an interesting system. It's clearly designed for a different stat scale than FE, but I don't think it would be any trouble to adjust it.

Good idea about the option, as well. This is one of those situations where a choice is appropriate.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Othin

[arvilino]

I wouldn't mind so much if female units had some advantage over male. As it stands, there really isn't any considering chicks have worse caps in general as well (-2 str for +2 res, what is this shit), and even the rescue formula isn't even in their favour.

I propose changing the rescue formula to either uniform or mount based rather than gender based. Makes no sense that just because the rider is a chick, her horse is somehow smaller.

I think there should either be a uniform build for a class or giving females a higher speed cap. Since once you get to the point where speed caps you'll have the male characters of the same class be better than the females regardless of the (-2 str, +2 res) stuff. Like Joshua ends up superior to Marisa since they both cap speed but Marisa's lower consititution means Joshua can wield the better weapons, most notably Audhulma without the speed penalty Marisa gets.

[Mirron]

Well, overall I'd prefer another random stat, if just because I don't mind the randomness. It's definitely better overall for balance if it's something that is supportive for both sides (magic for mages, strength for physical), the opposite, or something neutral for both (hence Con with growth, could be some other stat I guess). Making it a generic stat though that doesn't vary at all didn't feel like it worked out too well.

As for the way characters gain stats, personally like it that way. Shining Force sounds interesting enough, but like the current system. Just needs to be rebalanced a bit, don't think the system at it's core doesn't work.

[dondon151]

Making it a generic stat though that doesn't vary at all didn't feel like it worked out too well.

Please elaborate. I don't recall anything wrong with the GBA FE con system, save for some complaints that characters were always perpetually weighed down by certain weapons - but that may very well be a problem with the weapon weights themselves rather than with the system.

[Thor Odinson]

I think there should either be a uniform build for a class or giving females a higher speed cap. Since once you get to the point where speed caps you'll have the male characters of the same class be better than the females regardless of the (-2 str, +2 res) stuff. Like Joshua ends up superior to Marisa since they both cap speed but Marisa's lower consititution means Joshua can wield the better weapons, most notably Audhulma without the speed penalty Marisa gets.

Something like +1 speed cap for -1 con would be acceptable. Myrmidon's con disparity is just too big, in that there's 3 points difference between male and female. SM gets a bit better in FE8 since chicks are a +2 con so the disparity is lowered by 1, but still would make Marisa shittier than Joshie even if hypothetical Marisa joined at Joshie's jointime. There's some other classes with ±2, as well.

Though, Marisa wins like, no base stats against Joshua despite joining ridiculously late.

I like uniform build, tbh. Or like weight is affected by class rather than by build, and build being only used in rescue calculations and the such.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[General Banzai]

Speaking of random stats: I liked the move growth in Thracia and would like to see that implemented here.

[CrashGordon94]

Well, personally, I'd say Movement is the only thing I don't think should have a growth.

Though admittedly, I could see why you would want one, and an especially huge one could be a good incentive to use an Est archetype character.

[eclipse]

I'd say restrict movement growth to foot units only.

[Thor Odinson]

And put a more restrictive cap on it. I mean, I enjoyed having 12 move Mareeta, but damn that was broken.

[dondon151]

I thought movement growth was the dumbest thing ever. Particularly in drafts. There's also the cases where people look down upon a strategy because it relies on a 2% move growth.

[arvilino]

A nice way around that would be something like Shining Forces growth but just for move. Like each units move is pre-determined by the game and won't be higher or lower(maybe +/- 1) by a certain level and/or promotion.

[dondon151]

I do think that the game developers for FE5 expected some player units to have had a movement growth by some point in the game - for example, Conomore and Amalda innately have +1 move on their bases, which is nice.

But then you also have cases like 12 move Mareeta.

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah that was broken but I ain't complaining E: //shot

Maybe it wouldn't be as ridiculous if Dain scroll didn't exist, even though Dain only added 5% it probably still made a lot of difference. And RNG liking me, lol

Edited November 7, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[Snowy_One]

I, personally, don't think there is a inherent wrong in gender-based caps, just that the FE stat-system isn't equipped to handle them very well. Either the two stats selected to be different are horribly in-balanced (STR/RES) or would be too insignificant (Lck/Res) to matter. For that reason, I support both genders having the same caps. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Oblivion's stat-system was better. Especially in regards to gender since, despite the gender differences, both could cap out at 100. A female may have 5 less STR than a male, but both can still cap out at 100 with no actual penalties. I really wish games would handle gender and gender roles better. It seems that they are usually either completely unimportant or too heavily one-sided to be fair. I hate seeing the only difference being just the male/female sprite, but I hate seeing games that too heavily favor one gender even more.