Trueblades

[Snowy_One]

Sides, PE isn't worthless on tier lists; just worth-less than actual claims. People still need to sit down and try out various new strategies. Some work, some don't. Some may require a unit to get blessed, some may fail if a unit get slightly screwed, some may simply have never been tried. PE doesn't mean nothing, it allows exploration, but it needs backing up to be of value in lists.

PEMN was originally stated to nullify the constant tier claims of 'well unit X should be higher/lower because I saw them do well/awful' as when the lists were forming there were tons of unsubstantiated claims flying around.

[CrashGordon94]

Personal experience might mean nothing in serious rankings, but it's a central thing for personal preferences and more casual comparison things.

[CT075]

Are you talking NM or HM? If you truly believe that Nolan > Mia and Boyd > Zihark in HM, why don't you go to the tier list and make an argument? The people there could do with a laugh.

tbh I could not give a shit about what they wanted to laugh at or not.

Regardless, I will dare to say that Zihark and Nolan are at least somewhat objectively comparable. I won't go so far as to say that either of them are worth anything whatsoever against Mia.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Kam

[MacLovin]

I think that Zihark and Nolan are comparable in p1....

And that Mia does not equal Boyd.

Because, without a speed Transfer, and a speedwings. He's not gonna be doubling stuff off the bat.

Nolan has "average-ish" strength, but he has axes for increased attack.

Zihark has good bases, and can get a str,skl,and spd transfer.

But he has a mediocre strength growth.

Am I getting somewhere here?

[I.M. Gei]

In HM Part 1, Nolan kind of loses his luster once Zihark comes into play; Nolan's more of an average unit by that point. He beats Zi pretty soundly in Part 3, though, what with Beastfoe shenanigans.

[MacLovin]

Yeah, however, Zihark and Nolan remain competant DB unit throughout the game if trained.

The DBs good units

Would be

Volug

Sothe

Jill

Nolan

Zihark

Miccy Sue?

Edward?

Aran?

And mebbe Laura.

I guess Zihark could join the GMs-but they're a bunch of gods.so Zihark wouldn't be as good.

What about Stefans use???

[Narga_Rocks]

I never compared Zihark to Nolan because that's a toughie. I'd say Nolan > Zihark since Zihark loses steam after part 1 and Nolan gets good again (and was good for the start of part 1). But I chose to compare Zihark to Boyd since that one is obvious.

[Anouleth]

In HM Part 1, Nolan kind of loses his luster once Zihark comes into play; Nolan's more of an average unit by that point. He beats Zi pretty soundly in Part 3, though, what with Beastfoe shenanigans.

Sure, but Beastfoe has a not insignificant opportunity cost. There are very few units out there that don't ORKO with it: Zihark ORKOes with it, for instance, it's merely the case that he needs the Brave Sword to avoid counterattacks from Tigers and he can't do it at 1-2 range to stronger Cats and Tigers, which doesn't go well with his otherwise inferior durability.

However, depending upon how fast you go, it might very well be the case that Nolan fails to get the 14DEF he needs (and dracoshield and a +DEF support). Nolan's durability is contingent on him getting levels and not being unlucky with them, as well as getting an appropiate support. Nolan can also deploy the Hammer against Generals in 3-12, but he doesn't OHKO and he might not double the faster ones. And you might always ship the Hammer over to the GMs. Without the Hammer, Nolan's offense takes a big hit, since while he has an attack lead over Zihark, Zihark doubles far more reliably.

So I really don't think it's that simple to call Nolan better in Part 3 due to beastfoe.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Anouleth

[Narga_Rocks]

Sure, but Beastfoe has a not insignificant opportunity cost. There are very few units out there that don't ORKO with it: Zihark ORKOes with it, for instance, it's merely the case that he needs the Brave Sword to avoid counterattacks from Tigers and he can't do it at 1-2 range to stronger Cats and Tigers, which doesn't go well with his otherwise inferior durability.

However, depending upon how fast you go, it might very well be the case that Nolan fails to get the 14DEF he needs (and dracoshield and a +DEF support). Nolan's durability is contingent on him getting levels and not being unlucky with them, as well as getting an appropiate support. Nolan can also deploy the Hammer against Generals in 3-12, but he doesn't OHKO and he might not double the faster ones. And you might always ship the Hammer over to the GMs. Without the Hammer, Nolan's offense takes a big hit, since while he has an attack lead over Zihark, Zihark doubles far more reliably.

So I really don't think it's that simple to call Nolan better in Part 3 due to beastfoe.

But the so called "opportunity cost" of not giving beastfoe to Zihark would be reduced by Z's op cost of taking the brave sword from the GMs, at least if you want a Z that can kill without a counter. It's either that or the op cost of not giving beastfoe to Z is small because Z doesn't kill tigers without a counter and thus he's really bad for it.

As for the generals, there isn't that many in 3-12 and it's mostly the Jill show anyway. It's more a 3-6 and 3-13 comparison, yes? And then there is part 4 where Nolan kills stuff and Zihark (if you tether a unit to him for support) never dies but doesn't kill stuff as often.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Narga_Rocks