Trueblades

[Junkhead]

Mia kinda sucks in those chapters for lacking a forge. Zihark 1RKO pretty much anything in his chapters in Part 1.

[MacLovin]

P2 has 2 buyable Killing Edges and a Wo Dao(from 2-3 boss)

Unless Mak is being used, Neph/Brom/Haar/Heather can ferry thsoe over.for Ike/Mia to use.

Ziharks has Good bases and growths.

Edward has growths+availibilty and fast Nolan support.

Lucia is filler in p4.

But she shines in 2-2

Stefan is and RNG proof filler for endgame.

Edward and Z help the DB more than Mia helps in a superhumans

Edited December 6, 2011 by Silver Harpoon

[Anouleth]

Mia kinda sucks in those chapters for lacking a forge. Zihark 1RKO pretty much anything in his chapters in Part 1.

So does everyone. In other words, Zihark gives you nothing that you cannot get from Edward or Nolan.

[Vicious Sal]

1-8. nuff said, also, you don't get the p2 stuff till ch 3-2.

[Shadow Mir]

P2 has 2 buyable Killing Edges and a Wo Dao(from 2-3 boss)

Which are best off not bothered with since they're subpar at best. All they're good for is $$$$$.

[Junkhead]

So does everyone. In other words, Zihark gives you nothing that you cannot get from Edward or Nolan.

Everyone = Half of the team

By the way, Edward won't 1RKO reliably until he gets the Brave sword. Before that and even after that until he [Edward] promotes, Zihark's beating him all-around. Same with Nolan, who won't be doubling any time soon in Part 1.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Jigglypuff

[MacLovin]

Still, TBs are useful for endgame, with a 40 speed cap to double the auras.

But, the only one that has problems is Lucia-18 base strength and 25% growth......

I guess she would be better is she was playable in the CRKs instead of being captured/Escorting Elincia for peace negotiations

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Still, TBs are useful for endgame, with a 40 speed cap to double the auras.

Bullcrap. They have far too low Str Cap to be usefull for killing auras.

[MacLovin]

Bullcrap. They have far too low Str Cap to be usefull for killing auras.

[Anouleth]

Everyone = Half of the team

By the way, Edward won't 1RKO reliably until he gets the Brave sword. Before that and even after that until he [Edward] promotes, Zihark's beating him all-around.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Edward could reach level 16 by the time Zihark shows up (iirc, Vykan had Edward at level 12 at the end of 1-3) in Normal Mode. An early promotion puts him on 15STR/19SPD, so with an Iron Sword forge he ORKOes all enemy types except for Armours, which Zihark doesn't ORKO either. Zihark's only advantages are higher avoid and +2 defense, but Edward grows faster in most areas anyway, including HP, STR, and DEF, with only a 5% lower growth in avoid.

Same with Nolan, who won't be doubling any time soon in Part 1.

To double 1-6-1 Fighters, Nolan needs to be level 16/1. For Soldiers and Archers, he needs 17/1. And that's just in the middle of Part 1: Nolan generally gets faster at a better rate than generics, so as time goes on, he will double more until 1-E, where a 20/3 Nolan doubles basically everything except Myrmidons and some of the faster Soldiers/Archers.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

its like i'm back in 2008 all over again, anyone esle getting that vibe?

[Zanarkin]

Bullcrap. They have far too low Str Cap to be usefull for killing auras.

They have rather good offense against auras, what they lose in str, they gain by doubling naturally instead of requiring nasir to be positioned correctly.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Link

[Junkhead]

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Edward could reach level 16 by the time Zihark shows up (iirc, Vykan had Edward at level 12 at the end of 1-3) in Normal Mode. An early promotion puts him on 15STR/19SPD, so with an Iron Sword forge he ORKOes all enemy types except for Armours, which Zihark doesn't ORKO either. Zihark's only advantages are higher avoid and +2 defense, but Edward grows faster in most areas anyway, including HP, STR, and DEF, with only a 5% lower growth in avoid.

That's an exaggerated level inflation. He'd not alot of favoritism to get there. You have to remember that he used the 4-turn strategy that requires Edward to handle the South side of 1-4 by himself, which means most of the Exp comes from there. A favorited Edward isn't coming out at lvl 12 from 1-3.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

They have rather good offense against auras, what they lose in str, they gain by doubling naturally instead of requiring nasir to be positioned correctly.

Im nice and assume we bless Vague Katti and that TB Caps Str.

46 or 48 Damage on non cover/parity aura = barely 2RKO. Down to 3RKO if we use Alondite instead.

For reference Reaver with blessed Brave Axe and Cap Str does the exact same barely 2RKO damage. 3RKO with Urvan.

Yeah.

Trueblades suck at Aura killing

[Zanarkin]

Im nice and assume we bless Vague Katti and that TB Caps Str.

46 or 48 Damage on non cover/parity aura = barely 2RKO. Down to 3RKO if we use Alondite instead.

For reference Reaver with blessed Brave Axe and Cap Str does the exact same barely 2RKO damage. 3RKO with Urvan.

If a Reaver is doing about the same damage how are they anyworse? I assume its more that reavers do with brave axe and Urvan, otherwise its an useless point. I can't see how thats so bad, specially since they can join up for some kills with other units in case Nasir has already been used. In anycase, their damge isn't so bad, and atleast they are doing more than non doubling units. Any damage is good damge against Auras.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

If a Reaver is doing about the same damage how are they anyworse? I assume its more that reavers do with brave axe and Urvan, otherwise its an useless point. I can't see how thats so bad, specially since they can join up for some kills with other units in case Nasir has already been used. In anycase, their damge isn't so bad, and atleast they are doing more than non doubling units. Any damage is good damge against Auras.

Because Reavers can whip out that Nasir for ORKO if they have at least 34 AS one use of nasir and pop there goes one of 9 auras, thats all.

How about trueblades? well females deal 23 damge each hit and males do 24. To ORKO they need 21 or 22 more damage per hit... Lets see.... Yeah not happening. Trueblades suck.

Thats not even counting how much better Reavers are in other parts of endgame and that Trueblade can end up with Blessed Wyrmslayer. And easily at that.

[CT075]

Let's see...

Mia, who naturally caps strength and speed, does 23 damage to an aura, twice. If she has Gareth AND Ena (not likely), she does 33*2 damage. Whoops.

Lucia does the same thing. Any male SM does... marginally better, with 34*2.

Meanwhile, either Reaver, if they have 34 Spd (not that unlikely with smart BEXP) and Nasir does 24*4=96 damage. Pop.

And again, not gonna even bother counting the fact that Reavers are so much better for the rest of the game.

[Zanarkin]

So um... how is 46-48 (4 less for Alondite) damage against an Aura bad? I never said, "hey guys lets all use trueblades as our main offensive units for auras and lets forget about the rest because Trueblades are so much better." What i said instead is that their damage is good against auras. Yes i know they are not the best, but they are not the worst. Besides if we are planning we are going to get units to bless a Vague Katti/Alondite for us. Sure, it isn't likely in a pt, but in the event where a player is going to use a trueblade i'm fairly sure they wouldn't just give it a wyrmslayer :/. I know i get what you guys are saying, in comparison to reavers, reavers > Trueblades. However, I never said that they are better than any unit at offensive (although the case can be made that they are better than some units, such as those that won't ever double even with Nasir).

If a Reaver is doing about the same damage how are they anyworse? I assume its more that reavers do with brave axe and Urvan, otherwise its an useless point.

I can see how you'd get TB > Reaver from me in this case, but i was a bit confused on what Sho meant. I wasn't thinking of Nasir + Reaver at that time.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Link

[Narga_Rocks]

Im nice and assume we bless Vague Katti and that TB Caps Str.

46 or 48 Damage on non cover/parity aura = barely 2RKO. Down to 3RKO if we use Alondite instead.

For reference Reaver with blessed Brave Axe and Cap Str does the exact same barely 2RKO damage. 3RKO with Urvan.

Yeah.

Trueblades suck at Aura killing

Now try the Reaver on the cover aura. No Nasir or take -10 def and Brave Axe has crap hit on auras in general without Heaven. How many units do you have that can accurately team up with Tibarn (or any unit) to KO a cover aura without using any dragons?

It irritates me how many people completely avoid considering accuracy when talking about beating auras. I'm not thrilled about 70% hit rates when I can have 90+.

Trueblades aren't like other units. You don't use all units the same way. Play to the units' strengths. In the case of the TB, that is beating on cover auras with Parity. A 2 turn chapter win is pretty easy with Tibarn and a Trueblade going parity on 2 or 3 of the cover auras. Nasir and the other dragons can't be everywhere when you are trying to beat a chapter in 2 turns.

And again, not gonna even bother counting the fact that Reavers are so much better for the rest of the game.

Are you talking NM or HM? If you truly believe that Nolan > Mia and Boyd > Zihark in HM, why don't you go to the tier list and make an argument? The people there could do with a laugh.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Are you talking NM or HM? If you truly believe that Nolan > Mia and Boyd > Zihark in HM, why don't you go to the tier list and make an argument? The people there could do with a laugh.

Maybe he's one of those people who doesn't like tier lists since they actually require you to back up your claims rather than just citing personal experience

[Junkhead]

Backing up your claim with personal experience is still backing it up.

[Aethereal]

Backing up your claim with personal experience is still backing it up.

Backing up a claim with anecdotal evidence is hardly backing it up at all.

[Junkhead]

Let me add it's backing it up, but in a terrible way.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Let me add it's backing it up, but in a terrible way.

if its in a terrible way then why bother backing up your claim at all?

[Junkhead]

They have no idea their claim is horrible, so that's why they do it.