Defeatist Elitist Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Amidst the posts in the other topic I think there was some tangental stuff worth discussing/pointing out, and it will get way more traffic in FFtF plus it's not really worthy of SD, so yeah. Then they've made their point, I don't see why they've got to continue making it. I realize that they're miffed about that. I'm sorry that I've offended them. Well you haven't exactly addressed it have you? Also, I don't think you've offended anyone, so much as it just seems like what you did was a bit of a dick move. As Kiryn said, it wasn't really warranted. And again, because you haven't fully adressed it beyond going "yo that's what I did". Essentially, you're sort of pulling a more minor version of what Crash did, you're admitting that you did something without actually addressing what is wrong with it. Because I've seen multiple occasions of Crash insulting people, and being rude to transsexuals, and not just inside SF. If he has the gal to insult the entire group, he should have the same gal to back up his point, but he never did. So I brought his opinion out into the open. I agree he should back up his point, but the fact that he DIDN'T only serves to weaken him, it actually makes his opponent's side stronger. Also, I don't necessarily think that that's a logical reason to bring his opinion into the open. Edited December 15, 2011 by Defeatist Elitist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think this might get a better response in Serious Discussion, but that's just me. Thanks for making this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Well you haven't exactly addressed it have you? Also, I don't think you've offended anyone, so much as it just seems like what you did was a bit of a dick move. As Kiryn said, it wasn't really warranted. And again, because you haven't fully adressed it beyond going "yo that's what I did". Essentially, you're sort of pulling a more minor version of what Crash did, you're admitting that you did something without actually addressing what is wrong with it. I agree he should back up his point, but the fact that he DIDN'T only serves to weaken him, it actually makes his opponent's side stronger. Also, I don't necessarily think that that's a logical reason to bring his opinion into the open. I'm not sure I completely understand your first point. As for your second, it might not have been completely logical, but that's what I felt had to happen. I'd grown tired of Crash not explaining why he had such a large hate, and wanted him to explain it to people, but I didn't think there was any way I was going to get him to do that of his own accord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The thread title made me think "Truth, Despair and Hope". I am a bad person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 In case anyone is wondering, I asked Revan to make this after closing the previous thread. It's sad that a few members could not get past their stupid arguments to see the meat of the thread, and even sadder for the ones who would choose to blame it on me or anyone else on the staff. Keep your garbage out of this one, there will be warns this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm not sure I completely understand your first point. My first point is basically that bunch of people have pointed out the problem they had with what you said. You sort of went "yeah that is what I did". That wasn't really much of an explanation or anything to go on, so they repeated what they said. By not bothering to really address any problems people might have with what you did (either through argument or by going "gee I was wrong" and then taking appropriate action), you've basically done what Crash has done, just to a lesser extent. That is to say, Crash has a silly opinion that he refuses to change. You did a silly thing that you refuse to apologize for. As for your second, it might not have been completely logical, but that's what I felt had to happen. I'd grown tired of Crash not explaining why he had such a large hate, and wanted him to explain it to people, but I didn't think there was any way I was going to get him to do that of his own accord. I dunno, I feel like it was kind of unnecessary. If Crash refuses to explain why he holds his shitty opinion, then it doesn't really matter, it just makes saying "you're wrong" significantly easier because you don't even have to adress any of his arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 thread got closed before I posted but I saved the whole message anyway I never befriended Crash. I told him that I wouldn't troll him, that I wouldn't dog him, and that I wouldn't tell anyone about this. The only thing I betrayed was that I told people about this. And you don't think I know how betraying someone's trust feels? How it hurts? I cheated on my current fiancé, about three years ago. He knows I did. I know I did. I felt that pain, and I know how terrible I was for it. So don't you dare insinuate that I don't know how bad it feels. I've lived it, and I'll continue living it, for the rest of my life. What have you gone through? And he trusted you to not tell anyone about this. I don't think you fully understand that. He genuinely believed you would keep it to yourself. And what was the first thing you did once you got that chunk of text? Why, you jumped for fucking joy and pasted that shit all over DoF chat, then went and dumped it over here. Also, I never asked if you had betrayed anyone's trust before (it's REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS YOU JUST DID), I was asking if you knew what it's like for someone you trusted to take that trust and take a good, long shit on it. You want examples? Fine. My mother betrayed my trust by reading my MSN messages on a very touchy subject. In primary school, I had a close friend who I trusted, and I told him a secret he proceeded to throw around the entire class. Last year, because someone IRL couldn't keep their fucking mouth shut, 80% of the other students I know in school kept on (and still are!) teasing me about one thing which should never have been known by anyone else in the first place. So, once again, I don't think you know what you've really done. Instead, you're just defending yourself by saying it's justified and that you don't care and everything, and look who did that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasied Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I don't think an apology from seph would mean much right now. He admits that it wasn't a good thing to do but he seriously believes that the ends justify the means. An apology without any sincerity behind it is worthless because nothing actually changes. EDIT: And now a surprisingly sincere looking apology has happened. I hope my cynicism was just getting the better of me here. Edited December 15, 2011 by Blasied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 In case anyone is wondering, I asked Revan to make this after closing the previous thread. It's sad that a few members could not get past their stupid arguments to see the meat of the thread, and even sadder for the ones who would choose to blame it on me or anyone else on the staff. Keep your garbage out of this one, there will be warns this time. I'm going to echo eclipse here that it might be better off in SD than FFtF. Ontopic: I don't think that what Trent did, to put it mildly, is the nicest thing ever. But I also agree with Kiryn in the previous thread that people are blowing it way out of proportions, as Trent and Crash were never friends and never pretended to be. It was a dick thing to do, sure, but the topic was made to start discussion, whether or not Trent might have been a little assholish about it. I for one am interested to know why Crash holds such viewpoints. If there were a better way of getting them, I would have preferred it as well. However, I am of the view that if you say anything in public, you should be held accountable to back up your opinions in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Attempted to start discussion in FftF. I mean, really? You're justifying starting a thread about someone's viewpoints (someone like crash, no less; people can't stop ganging up on the dude) in FftF as attempting to make discussion? I'm surprised it wasn't shat on some more. There's also an age gap here; Crash is 16 years old and seph is 19... I mean, jesus, not everyone who's 16 has hit this sudden streak of maturity yet. Edited December 15, 2011 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I don't think it was intended to be public in the first place. I'm not sure if Crash would've expressed this if he knew that seph would show it to the world. Then again, I don't pay much attention to Crash, so who's to say? Either way, I'm never happy when someone tries to spill secrets, short of saving a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 My first point is basically that bunch of people have pointed out the problem they had with what you said. You sort of went "yeah that is what I did". That wasn't really much of an explanation or anything to go on, so they repeated what they said. By not bothering to really address any problems people might have with what you did (either through argument or by going "gee I was wrong" and then taking appropriate action), you've basically done what Crash has done, just to a lesser extent. That is to say, Crash has a silly opinion that he refuses to change. You did a silly thing that you refuse to apologize for. I dunno, I feel like it was kind of unnecessary. If Crash refuses to explain why he holds his shitty opinion, then it doesn't really matter, it just makes saying "you're wrong" significantly easier because you don't even have to adress any of his arguments. Then I will say this. To everyone I offended with my posting of the topic, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I went through that method of getting Crash's opinion exposed to the forums. I'm sorry that I had to betray his trust to do so. I realize it was wrong, and I realize that I should've tried other methods, and not considered what I did. I acted out of impulse, and that wasn't very intelligent of me. I shall listen to what Kiryn said, and never do this again, because it's quite obvious that the members of SF do not appreciate this sort of behavior. And I do realize that I'm not just apologizing because I want everyone to like me. I made an error in judgement, and I shouldn't have done what I did. Trying to justify it with things like "I don't care" or "I know it's wrong whatever", because that doesn't help my side. So, Serenes Forest Forums. I am sincerely sorry for what I did, and will not be taking any sort of actions like this in the future. It's obvious that it was a shit thing to do, and I let my bias towards Crash get the better of me. I don't expect you all to suddenly forgive me, but hopefully, we can all get along. Not right away, but someday. Part of my felt it was necessary because of how many people seemed to want to know. And I let that part of me take over, which was a poor fault in my judgement. I'm still glad that his opinion is now visible for everyone, though I'm not glad of how I went about it. He genuinely believed you would keep it to yourself. And what was the first thing you did once you got that chunk of text? Why, you jumped for fucking joy and pasted that shit all over DoF chat, then went and dumped it over here. Josh, you seem to be confused. I didn't just receive that PM today. I've had that conversation going on with Crash since the 30th of November. He sent me his reasoning on the 9th, so I've been mulling over posting it or not posting it. Obviously I made a bad choice. So yes, I do realize what I did. I fully understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I was genuinely affected by the whole thing. The amount of adrenaline has kept me up from going to sleep, and I only stopped shaking about 15 minutes ago. But I feel better knowing that you have apologised and that you see the error of your ways. I am a forgiving person, however it is Crash who deserves the apology more than any of us. It was his trust and faith in you that was broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 As entirely pointless as I feel sending Crash an apology is (not because I think he doesn't deserve it or anything like that, but because I doubt he would accept it), I have sent him one by PM. If anyone wants to add to this discussion, go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 As entirely pointless as I feel sending Crash an apology is (not because I think he doesn't deserve it or anything like that, but because I doubt he would accept it), I have sent him one by PM. If anyone wants to add to this discussion, go ahead. I'm sure he will appreciate it. If not then eh, you tried. Crash will look bad for not accepting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm sure he will appreciate it. If not then eh, you tried. Crash will look bad for not accepting it. Yeah. Geez, it's 4:20 in the morning. I don't even know if I want to sleep anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 9.30am. I woke up at 8am yesterday morning after having 3 hours sleep. Haven't slept since. I'm hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I don't think it was intended to be public in the first place. I'm not sure if Crash would've expressed this if he knew that seph would show it to the world. Then again, I don't pay much attention to Crash, so who's to say? I wouldn't have done, actually. Also, I got Seph's apology and I'm trying to forgive him but it's quite hard. I think I will be able to in the end but I'm not going to trust him with anything I consider confidential either way. Not as a slight against him, but even if we "bury the hatchet" it would still be a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. Also, while I think Tangerine should've killed the thread on sight, I can understand why she kept it up. She wasn't doing it to bully me or anything. EDIT: After a little more explanation from her, it sounds like she had really good reasons for it. She was just acting with my best interests at heart, and I thank her for that. Edited December 15, 2011 by Kirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I wouldn't have done, actually. Also, I got Seph's apology and I'm trying to forgive him but it's quite hard. I think I will be able to in the end but I'm not going to trust him with anything I consider confidential either way. Not as a slight against him, but even if we "bury the hatchet" it would still be a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. Also, while I think Tangerine should've killed the thread on sight, I can understand why she kept it up. She wasn't doing it to bully me or anything. With what I've heard of you, this wasn't exactly what I expected to see. And I'm glad. I may not always agree with you, but I don't see a reason to disagree with anything you've said. Thanks~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ...Looks like I missed a whole ton after I went to sleep. You kids and your drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I really want to be a tool and find a way to disagree with everyone in this thread, but I can't figure out how to. There just isn't enough to go on here. That must be why the old thread was deleted - to foil my attempts to be a douchebag. So I will retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I really want to be a tool and find a way to disagree with everyone in this thread, but I can't figure out how to. There just isn't enough to go on here. That must be why the old thread was deleted - to foil my attempts to be a douchebag. So I will retire. SeverIan, I feel that even if you had seen the old thread, any attempts would end up with half the forums jumping at you. Not that you wouldn't be able to handle that, just that we've already have one shitstorm, don't need two in two days ;D Edited December 15, 2011 by seph1212 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ...Looks like I missed a whole ton after I went to sleep. You kids and your drama. ikr, i wanna know what happened.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ...... Well, this is better... And I think being involved in a discussion like that is the opposite of what you'd want. Although maybe that depends on the person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ikr, i wanna know what happened.. Seph asked Crash to say something in a PM, and then Seph took that PM and posted it for others to see and react to, without Crash's approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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