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[FE4] Rate The Unit I


Caliban of Sycorax
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Sigurd is the single best unit in his half of the game, period. He has almost no flaws.

10/10. (fuck can i give this guy more?)

(taken from the rules)

- Personality / Appearance may be taken into account, but only +/- 1 point at the most.

Abuse the power!

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Anouleth, I jusr reread your post. Sigurd doesn't have the weapon ranks to weild a Silver Lance.

Oh, okay.

Also, about the Silver Sword, unless you're whoring it around, I don't see it reaching 50 kills in Gen 1 from what I said earlier. I'm not assuming draft circumstances, I'm assuming everyone gets used, even scrubs like Ardan and Tiltyu. So Sigurd isn't going to be killing hoards of enemies by himself, the others are going to get kills too.

Sigurd doesn't have to kill hordes of enemies, but the fact that he can should obviously signify that he's a good character. If you aren't using Sigurd to his full potential, that doesn't mean he doesn't have that potential.

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How the fuck are you going to be able to use everyone without taking 5 years to complete first gen? That's like me having a constantly rotating party in FE7, there's no point unless I'm going ranked.

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(taken from the rules)

- Personality / Appearance may be taken into account, but only +/- 1 point at the most.

Abuse the power!

Well since there's no precedent in this game made by rounding Marcus's 11s down to 10s, BRING THE ELEVENS

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Are we assuming separation by generation? That is, if I think about how I rate Sigurd, I don't dock him points because "he's not as good as Levin!Arthur," right? The only character who should be rated based on both generations is Fin, and he has enough going for him (including the unique availability itself) that it can be relatively easily factored as probably mostly a positive.

Granted, I'd still rate Sigurd better than Levin!Arthur I think even if I were comparing the two, but since Gen 1 units literally cannot exist after Chapter 5 and Gen 2 units cannot exist before Chapter 6, I figured we'd just rate everyone in their context.

Well, obviously we're going to take generation separation into account. It's really the only way.

Also, I'm wondering how to rank the children characters. Should it be by father, or overall?

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Well, obviously we're going to take generation separation into account. It's really the only way.

Also, I'm wondering how to rank the children characters. Should it be by father, or overall?

By father + the replacements would be nightmarish and take forever, and some kids are so samey/sucky there's no point quibbling over daddy.

I say, rate the character by its full potential. That means we can rate Levin!Arthur and Levin!Sety when discussing Arthur or Sety as something in their favor. I'd be hesitant to say "ignore opportunity costs for different fathers" because I guess that is part of what makes a unit good or not and people will make the comparison anyway when Corple comes up (I expect little benefit to the fact that he can use Holsety, since people will argue "Arthur or Sety should have that" whether it's fair or not).

Ideally, I'd just say we rate the kid based on all potential fathers. So Fee gets to pinpoint her daddy-derived utility with Noish's combat benefits, Claude's staff rank, and "being Levin!Sety's sister." Likewise, we don't have to penalize Tinny by saying she won't have any dad but Levin (if you consider that a penalty, anyway, which can at least be argued since she gets neither Holsety nor Pursuit that way).

EDIT: Also, we should rate replacements as if they are their own character and stress they should not be penalized "because you have to give up the children characters." Most of the replacements will rank under the children naturally because they're simply not as good. There may be a case for Laylea or Sharlow to go above Leen or Corple... but that's sort of an individual opinion thing. Either way, Laylea should be considered for her own stats and the fact that she can be an extra Charisma which Leen can't ever do, and be rated accordingly; she should not be rated "+8 for Dancer, +4 for Charisma, -6 for not letting Leen exist, 6/10."

The rule should probably be something like "When rating replacements, assume you're forced to kill off the equivalent mother."

Edited by Renall
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We could do it based on their general performance, and mention likely pairings. It'd be fine to mention Levin/Claude/Noish!Fee's performance, but talking about her when Ardan's her papa isn't really helpful.

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How the fuck are you going to be able to use everyone without taking 5 years to complete first gen? That's like me having a constantly rotating party in FE7, there's no point unless I'm going ranked.

It's very possible. 5 move isn't as terrible as people say (sure, it's still bad, but people don't harp on Aideen and Claude for it, only Arden and Tiltyu from what I see) and ranks kind of do exist in FE4.

I can't imagine getting through Gen 1 without hitting 50 kills on the Silver Sword. Are you guys having him use other weapons or something?

Javelins are nice. Tyrfing is nice. Hero Sword is nice. Apparantly Light Sword is too even though I think it has better people with existant magic to go to.

Arthur with Holsety may be potent, but his movement is low for the first couple of chapters, as he'll be promoting around chapter 9 outside of a draft. This limits his usefulness, but he's still pretty good. Just not Sigurd good.

In Chapter 6 Arthur can save you a ton of headache by going straight down south over the mountain.

Edited by Knuckles
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In Chapter 6 Arthur can save you a ton of headache by going straight down south over the mountain.

In Chapter 6 Celice can continue GOING UP and just blick that whole squadron with the Light Sword, facing almost no noticeable hit. :P

EDIT: 'but integrity we don't all just spam celice'

In Chapter 6 Julia can get Resire and ...

though the miniboss with the hero axe makes it a little dicier than just CELICE GO UP so she might even have to use a forest or osmethne

Edited by Integrity
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I can't imagine getting through Gen 1 without hitting 50 kills on the Silver Sword. Are you guys having him use other weapons or something?

By start of Chapter 3 Sigurd had 13 kills on the Silver Sword, and 9 kills on the Javelin. He ends up deciding to try to use the Hero Sword from here on out to get kills, IIRC.

Noish had 20 kills on a Steel Sword and 1 on an Iron Lance.

Alec took Sigurd's pawned Steel, which now has 27 kills, also 3 kills on an Iron Lance.

Cuan has 7 kills on a Javelin, 11 on the Silver Lance 7 on the Iron lance he got from Finn.

Finn has 7 on the Steel Lance he got from Cuan and 1 on the Hero Lance.

Lex has 6 kills on the Iron Axe.

Dierdre has 10 kills on Aura.

Ethlin has 5 kills on an Iron Blade, and 3 on the Light Sword.

Ardan has 9 on an Iron Sword.

Azel has 2 kills on Thunder.

Midir has 11 kills on an Iron Bow, 3 on the Killer Bow.

Holyn has 4 kills on an Iron Blade.

Ayra has 7 kills on a Steel Blade.

Jamka has 3 kills on a Steel Bow.

Dew has 9 kills on an Iron Sword, and 1 on a Slim Sword.

Levin has 6 kills on Elwind.

The Iron Sword that Leen got from somewhere has 4 kills, her Slim Sword has 1 (pretty sure they were shuffled around, because I only remember her ever killing Pizarl for the Leg Ring, and that hasn't happened yet).

Lachesis has 1 kill on the Prayer Sword.

Beowulf has 8 kills on a Steel Sword.

The Fire in the Pawn shop has 10 kills on it.

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By start of Chapter 3 Sigurd had 13 kills on the Silver Sword, and 9 kills on the Javelin. He ends up deciding to try to use the Hero Sword from here on out to get kills, IIRC.

Noish had 20 kills on a Steel Sword and 1 on an Iron Lance.

Alec took Sigurd's pawned Steel, which now has 27 kills, also 3 kills on an Iron Lance.

Cuan has 7 kills on a Javelin, 11 on the Silver Lance 7 on the Iron lance he got from Finn.

Finn has 7 on the Steel Lance he got from Cuan and 1 on the Hero Lance.

Lex has 6 kills on the Iron Axe.

Dierdre has 10 kills on Aura.

Ethlin has 5 kills on an Iron Blade, and 3 on the Light Sword.

Ardan has 9 on an Iron Sword.

Azel has 2 kills on Thunder.

Midir has 11 kills on an Iron Bow, 3 on the Killer Bow.

Holyn has 4 kills on an Iron Blade.

Ayra has 7 kills on a Steel Blade.

Jamka has 3 kills on a Steel Bow.

Dew has 9 kills on an Iron Sword, and 1 on a Slim Sword.

Levin has 6 kills on Elwind.

The Iron Sword that Leen got from somewhere has 4 kills, her Slim Sword has 1 (pretty sure they were shuffled around, because I only remember her ever killing Pizarl for the Leg Ring, and that hasn't happened yet).

Lachesis has 1 kill on the Prayer Sword.

Beowulf has 8 kills on a Steel Sword.

The Fire in the Pawn shop has 10 kills on it.

Let me guess, you are ranking?

Oh, and 10/10 because Mekkah says he's #1 of all time.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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Let me guess, you are ranking?

Well, if you wanted kill counts from the playthrough where I didn't know Alvis gave Sigurd a Silver Sword and thus never he had it, I could have dug those out, but...

Yeah, my only other PT was the ranked one.

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11/10.

But I dun like him as a character.

So 10/10 for pure personal bias.

hahaha you're so slick isaac ily

Regarding the Sigurd Sword (because I don't want to be warned for spam), I frequently have Sigurd transfer to the Hero Sword in C3 to begin racking up kills for Celice. Even in a draft, where Sigurd is pulling more than his weight, the Sigurd Sword might not even be at 50 kills by the time the handoff occurs. It's quite close to possible, especially if you're actually using the whole team (/trying to level the Len* Three before they pwoof) for the sword to whiff 50 kills.

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