Is Wendy or Amelia Better?

[PresidentEden]

PEMN

If you're actually trying to use her in the game and be efficient, you're gonna have a bad time, but you'll have a worse time if the weakest unit on your roster can't keep up with the average unit. Cavalier is basically forced, so General is out as a final promotion. From there her next promotion is probably going to be dependent on individual circumstances, but my thought is that by the time she promotes she'll hopefully be able to hold her own and can take the extra move from being a Paladin. Either one would serve you fine, though.

If you're not trying to be efficient, i.e. Towering, my thought is General for the promotion gains. Creature Campaign = General.

[Trivialgent]

Thanks, but I don't play rank, and I use Valni to level up Amelia and Ewan-

PEMN

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE YOU!!

[Elieson]

That's a good explanation though. Yes she does et lots of Shiny numbers but it's just a lot of extra work (especially in hard mode) for a unit that simply isn't tht much better compared to the rest of your team.

If you're focusin on Postgame tower/ruins, General would be a strong option, though Paladin will be just fine regardless of the teeny bit less defense.

[PresidentEden]

If you're playing the post-game, the only three things that matter are stat caps, unique class skills/traits and weapon availability. General wins on all three fronts. But it's not really an impacting difference because any max-stat unit, irrespective of class, should destroy the post-game.

@Trivialgent

Edited March 14, 2013 by PresidentEden

[Baldrick]

Every time I used Amelia, her base stats were awful. But I suppose PEMN.

If you're not trying to be efficient, i.e. Towering, my thought is General for the promotion gains.

YES.

[Parrhesia]

My Amelia always gets max speed, skill and strength as a General. Explain that.

Luck or statboosters. Also note that she ends out worse than Seth (the extra speed is largely unnecessary, FE8 enemies are slow as shit). Maybe general gives her better stats, but that leaves her trailing by three move.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE YOU!!

ok

[Murdok Dracul]

There are NO bad units in Sacred Stones, simply due to the ease of grinding. I always use Amelia and she's always a goddess by the Endgame...well, not quite in my first two runs (though she's still about as good as everyone else), but in later runs she's become a goddess because of her amazing Super Recruit class. In FE6, grinding isn't as convenient, so Wendy loses. Also, Wendy's a boring Knight. I actually modded my game to turn her into a Soldier. And then I got bored of the game anyway.

But yeah, Amelia wins.

Just realised this thread has had some serious cases of necroing... Should I be posting here?

Edited March 15, 2013 by Murdok Dracul

[Might Gaine]

There are NO bad units in Sacred Stones, simply due to the ease of grinding. I always use Amelia and she's always a goddess by the Endgame...well, not quite in my first two runs (though she's still about as good as everyone else), but in later runs she's become a goddess because of her amazing Super Recruit class. In FE6, grinding isn't as convenient, so Wendy loses. Also, Wendy's a boring Knight. I actually modded my game to turn her into a Soldier. And then I got bored of the game anyway.

But yeah, Amelia wins.

General and Super Recruit typically result in Goddess of Destruction Amelia, yes. Great Knight w/Axe or Lance specialization comes close, though. Paladins get a Move bonus and... not a whole lot else.

Just realised this thread has had some serious cases of necroing... Should I be posting here?

It's already alive now, don't bother worrying.

[PresidentEden]

There are NO bad units in Sacred Stones, simply due to the ease of grinding. I always use Amelia and she's always a goddess by the Endgame...well, not quite in my first two runs (though she's still about as good as everyone else), but in later runs she's become a goddess because of her amazing Super Recruit class. In FE6, grinding isn't as convenient, so Wendy loses. Also, Wendy's a boring Knight. I actually modded my game to turn her into a Soldier. And then I got bored of the game anyway.

But yeah, Amelia wins.

Just realised this thread has had some serious cases of necroing... Should I be posting here?

Sure there are.

Horribly inefficient units: Gilliam, Ross, Neimi, Amelia, L'Arachel, Dozla, Ewan, Rennac, Knoll

Bad stat units: Dozla, Rennac, Knoll

And you're wasting your time with Amelia, which is the point. You have to see the unseen -- recognize the lost efficiency from not using another unit over her, or from Towering extensively -- in order to get it.

[Murdok Dracul]

General and Super Recruit typically result in Goddess of Destruction Amelia, yes. Great Knight w/Axe or Lance specialization comes close, though. Paladins get a Move bonus and... not a whole lot else.

I agree with this. I've never trained her as a General, but out of all my Amelias, the Paladin was the worst. I had her as a GK with Garm once, and she was great, but only as long as she was holding Garm.

And you're wasting your time with Amelia, which is the point. You have to see the unseen -- recognize the lost efficiency from not using another unit over her, or from Towering extensively -- in order to get it.

I don't care about efficiency. Efficiency doesn't change the game in any meaningful way. It only adds limitations that aren't meant to be there. Also, it's perfectly possible to use all those units you mentioned, on hard mode, with little to no trouble. I've done it. So none of them are bad units, even if some of them aren't as good as others.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Murdok Dracul

[dondon151]

So none of them are bad units, even if some of them aren't as good as others.

this is a contradiction

units are only good or bad when compared to each other

if some units aren't as good as others, then there must be bad units

I don't care about efficiency. Efficiency doesn't change the game in any meaningful way. It only adds limitations that aren't meant to be there.

you are looking at this the wrong way if you perceive efficiency as being a restriction imposed upon you by others. these restrictions are only quantified because it's easiest to do so when constructing a character ranking that mandates the agreement of a group of people.

however, you should care about efficiency - why? time is at a premium for many players, and so there is a clear distinction between characters that are good and bad. you can't pretend that this truth doesn't exist. your argument for the lack of "bad" units in FE8 is that grinding is easy, as if the grinding came at no cost. but why would there exist players who don't grind if such an activity were free of cost? not all units are created equal, and it's precisely this inequality that distinguishes good units from bad units.

Edited March 15, 2013 by dondon151

[Narga_Rocks]

Just realised this thread has had some serious cases of necroing... Should I be posting here?

We seem to have to explain this every couple of weeks.

Necroposting (post in a very old topic) is forbidden.

If a topic has not been posted in for 1 month AND has fallen outside the first page of a board, any posts made in that topic will be considered necroposting.

You aren't the first person that doesn't seem to understand that this means if a thread was already on the first page of a board, it's not a necro no matter how old it is. I'm not sure what wording could be more clear, really. We can't give examples for each rule on the code of conduct, as that would just make the rules look ugly. You might, however, notice that there is no second page in this board, at least not yet. Therefore all threads on this board, the era board, are free to post in.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[RJWalker]

I'm not going to try and argue that Amelia is some super awesome unit but she's waaaay better than Wendy.

[PresidentEden]

I don't care about efficiency. Efficiency doesn't change the game in any meaningful way. It only adds limitations that aren't meant to be there. Also, it's perfectly possible to use all those units you mentioned, on hard mode, with little to no trouble. I've done it. So none of them are bad units, even if some of them aren't as good as others.

This may be helpful reading.

[MacLovin]

Amelia sucks, Forde is the same thing as a Cavvy->GK/PAlly on average anyways. Gilliam provides more use, and fucking Fado is probobly better postgame if we take into account infinite stat boosters, weapon ranks, and con.

Oh and Wendy is just shit in fe6 when everything else that uses a Knight Crest has priority over her.

[Tamanoir]

Oh,that reminds me the time when I posted a Lute vs Nino topic.

...So yeah, Amelia all the way. She can at least be trained.

[Trivialgent]

I don't give a DAMN about your damn averages! They do NOT serve as the be-all and end-all for everything!

And if you use arenas and the Mine Glitch, you won't have to go through hoops to train Wendy and Nino.

So stop making such a big freaking deal about PEMN and availability. Be competitive as much as you damn well please, Pomson 6000 critics.

[NoNameAtAll]

I don't give a DAMN about your damn averages! They do NOT serve as the be-all and end-all for everything!

And if you use arenas and the Mine Glitch, you won't have to go through hoops to train Wendy and Nino.

So stop making such a big freaking deal about PEMN and availability. Be competitive as much as you damn well please, Pomson 6000 critics.

>Arena

>Glitches

Yeah, anyone can be good using that, bud.

[Just call me AL]

I don't give a DAMN about your damn averages! They do NOT serve as the be-all and end-all for everything!

I don't see you coming up with other methods of gauging how a unit's performance is measured without constantly being at the mercy of the RNG. While averages tell only a part of the story, they are still important to consider when comparing units. Availability and enemy stats per chapter also help tell the story about a unit.

And if you use arenas and the Mine Glitch, you won't have to go through hoops to train Wendy and Nino.

Not everyone likes take their time and train certain units up just so they can be a simple replacement at best. Not to mention, arena and glitch abuse don't exactly give sharp pictures of how good a unit is. Think of a player who wants to know which units are good and which ones aren't as someone with less than satisfactory vision. You want to provide him with the glasses or contacts that let him have good vision. What you're suggesting doesn't provide the person with the most suitable pair of glasses.

On a side note, you wouldn't happen to be Tureblade74, or Greener221, would you? These statements just seem rife with the type of stuff he'd pull. And I hope you'll excuse me for asking.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Little Al

[Shadow Mir]

I don't see you coming up with other methods of gauging how a unit's performance is measured without constantly being at the mercy of the RNG. While averages tell only a part of the story, they are still important to consider when comparing units. Availability and enemy stats per chapter also help tell the story about a unit.

Not everyone likes take their time and train certain units up just so they can be a simple replacement at best. Not to mention, arena and glitch abuse don't exactly give sharp pictures of how good a unit is. Think of a player who wants to know which units are good and which ones aren't as someone with less than satisfactory vision. You want to provide him with the glasses or contacts that let him have good vision. What you're suggesting doesn't provide the person with the most suitable pair of glasses.

And on that note, Wendy's so bad I don't think even arena abuse can save her...

[Baldrick]

And on that note, Wendy's so bad I don't think even arena abuse can save her...

I wouldn't say that, savestates and level rigging exist, and even without those, turtling and boss abuse exist. She's mediocre with favouritism, not unsalvageable.

[Shadow Mir]

I wouldn't say that, savestates and level rigging exist, and even without those, turtling and boss abuse exist. She's mediocre with favouritism, not unsalvageable.

If I have to go so far as to rig her levels just to make her usable, that can only reflect negatively on her. And boss abuse can only be feasible if you can reliably hit or damage a boss - which she can't do either of.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Baldrick]

1. Level rigging is not necessary, it's merely the most efficient way to pull her out of her hole. It does reflect negatively, but nobody worth listening to thinks Wendy is a good unit.

2. Feed her kills, break his weapons, build her support list, go 1 exp at a time if you have to. Yes, it will take a long time and using pretty much anyone else would be quicker, but that's not relevant to this discussion.

[Xinnidy]

ok baldrick *I think* that Trivialgent post got you a bit too exalted. (because I know you and this seems like a joke argument)

It's funny and all but there's a point the joke gets kind of out of bounds.

Hi thread.

I think Amelia is better because she's in a more forgiving game doop.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Xinnidy

[Baldrick]

Nah, I was just giving Tri's post the (lack of) respect it deserves. If anything's actually affecting me, it's the "Wendy can't be fixed" argument, which is just as wrong as the "Wendy's a goddess of destruction" argument.